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liv2shoot
March 23, 2010, 08:39 PM
What is the scoop on Zink wheel weights? In the sticky


This is my smelting process from start to finish.
1:Fill the pot with WW’s. Put the lid on the pot and turn on the gas to melt them.
2: At 700 degrees scoop out the clips and any zinc or steel weights that will be floating with the clips with the slotted spoon.
3: Fill the pot again, cover and let melt. That will give me a full pot. Doing it this way I can fit almost a full cat litter bucket of WW’s in one six quart pot.
4: At 700 degrees scoop out everything floating again.
5: Now I add around a one inch cube of wax. It will melt and when it starts to smoke it will catch fire. When the fire burns down a little I start to stir with the shovel handle. I will stir scraping the sides and bottom of the pot for a few minutes.
6: After stirring all of the crap starts to float to the top. Now I will take the solid spoon and start skimming the dross. If you want you can flux a second time.
7: Now with clean lead you can pour the ingots. I will fill all of my molds. When they are full I will start to dump them in the order they were filled. Then I fill them again. When you run out of lead the fun starts all over again.


They say the Zink weights will float to the top. But I hear others say that you contaminate the lead with Zink.

What does it do to the lead?

Can you smelt with the Zink in the pot?

The weights that I smelted already had some Zink weights in it.


Thanks for the response

Shane Tuttle
March 23, 2010, 08:49 PM
Zinc wheel weights float to the top as long as you stay below the melting temp of zinc....well below. If you melt ANY Zinc WW, you ruin the entire batch in that pot. It's common practice.

Crosshair
March 23, 2010, 09:15 PM
Yup, until the zinc reaches its melting temperature it is inert as far as your melt is concerned. One it does melt your batch is useless. Zinc melts at 787F.

liv2shoot
March 23, 2010, 09:30 PM
Thanks guys

I don't think that any of the Zink weights melted.

Is there any way of telling from the melted lead if there is Zink melted with it?

I guess I should have searched the posts before I posted the question. Don't mean to revisit this question.

All of the local guys that I asked this of didn't know either.

We are just getting started in casting. Got a bottom pour pot, molds, WW, linotype, some 50/50 Solder, and ready to start. Then I ran across a Master caster machine at the local gun show and purchased it. Boy this looks like it will be the way to cast bullets.
http://www.magmaengineering.com/products/master-caster

Thanks again for the responses

Edward429451
March 23, 2010, 11:00 PM
I've wanted one of them a long time but didn't get one because it was 600 bucks :(

Yeah I know, it's a grand now :(

chris in va
March 24, 2010, 02:45 AM
No offense, but it's zinc...with a 'c'. ;)

F. Guffey
March 24, 2010, 07:46 AM
http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm



F. Guffey

F. Guffey
March 24, 2010, 08:57 AM
"All of the local guys that I asked this of didn't know either":)

Just ambling along and not allowed to add post on some bullet casting forums, seems they have an expert designated designee, reminds me of a Jimmy Buffet concert, that is the part where he tells the audience it is not nice to beat Jimmy to the words to his own song.

Zinc does not ruin lead, zinc compromises it's ability to flow by increasing surface tension, meaning zinc when added to lead will not allow the melt to flow and fill the mole perfectly, tin helps not zinc. The ration of zinc to lead to compromise the melt is 1 to 10,000, one pound of zinc ruins 10,000 pounds of lead FOR CASTING, does not mean mean the lead/zinc can not be cut and swagged into bullets, it just means the mix has too much resistance to flow.

Getting the zinc out: Flux, then we should wonder who got the melt hot enough to melt zinc, Richard Lee claims it is not necessary to get it hot enough to melt to get it to dissolve, he says the process is the same as dissolving rock/sugar candy, putting zinc in the melt is not a good ideal, but all is forgiven when the melt is fluxed and there is no such thing as fluxing too much, may not be necessary but fluxing can not hurt, and stirring, stirring is good, stirring after fluxing mixed the dull gray material back into the mix, the dull gray material on the top after fluxing is tin.

F. Guffey

snuffy
March 24, 2010, 01:27 PM
Getting the zinc out: Flux, then we should wonder who got the melt hot enough to melt zinc, Richard Lee claims it is not necessary to get it hot enough to melt to get it to dissolve, he says the process is the same as dissolving rock/sugar candy, putting zinc in the melt is not a good ideal, but all is forgiven when the melt is fluxed and there is no such thing as fluxing too much, may not be necessary but fluxing can not hurt, and stirring, stirring is good, stirring after fluxing mixed the dull gray material back into the mix, the dull gray material on the top after fluxing is tin.

False! Once zinc is melted into a lead alloy, it's nearly impossible to remove, it's a true alloy. True alloys do NOT separate via gravity! The myth has been believed by many that the lighter components,(tin, antimony, and zinc), will float to the surface, that's why we flux.

Lead alloy is a true alloy, once mixed, it stays mixed. What you see on the surface of melted alloy is lead, tin, and antimony OXIDES. That's why we flux, to re-combine those oxides with the lead. Since tin reacts with oxygen at a faster rate than either lead or antimony, it is present at a higher ratio than the other two components of the alloy.

Liv2shoot, your technique will work well to get usable alloy. Also good luck with that magma machine. I will pass on one of those, more trouble than they're worth. Unless you're planning on making bullets to sell.

CrustyFN
March 24, 2010, 04:14 PM
As long as none of the zinc weights melt and get scoped out the lead will be fine. If some of the zinc weights melt then when you pour the ingots they won't look smooth. I have never had it happen to me but I hear they will have a kind of oat meal looking fininh to the ingot. With a good casting thermometer and keeping the smelt between 650 and 700 you should not have any problems.

liv2shoot
March 24, 2010, 05:14 PM
Thanks again for the replys and the info it clears up the question about Zinc.

I guess the lead that we smelted looks ok so we will try it.

Snuffy. I kow what you mean about the Master Caster machine. I know if I was to buy it new I would not. $995.00 What we paid for it was $300.00 with 4 molds and a few other parts. Not a bad price. Well worth it. I tryed it out the other night and it is fast and does a good job.

My son and I shoot in IHMSA and reloaded around 4,000 to 5,000 round last year. Just need to bring the cost of components down a little. A lot of our fellow shooters are going to be using it also.

I visit a lot of other sites and been on this one before but first time interacting.

Thanks for the info.

F. Guffey
March 24, 2010, 06:18 PM
http://www.lasc.us/FryxellFluxing.htm

Fluxing Bullet Metal

Of particular interest to the bullet caster are calcium, aluminum and zinc -- all of which are difficult to reduce and all of which cause casting problems. What we want a flux to do is to remove impurities that affect the surface tension of the alloy and cause problems during casting (most notable here are things like calcium, aluminum, zinc and copper). In addition, we want to remove any wettable particulate matter that might go on to form inclusions in our bullets. Since tin is so valuable to the bullet caster, it would be helpful if we could slow down, or even reverse its oxidation.
Some of the commercial bullet fluxes are formulations that have the advantage of generating virtually no smoke or odor based on borax, or other boric acid derivatives. The way these commercial fluxes work is to combine with the oxidized components of the alloy (including any oxidized tin) and form an insoluble molten borate glass, which collects on top of the melt as a dark molten crust. This process is smoke-free and cleans the alloy very effectively, but the dark molten crust must be removed to prevent inclusions in the bullets.

Read the entire article
Top of page


http://www.lasc.us/FryxellFluxing.htm

Could be confusing, the article starts with SIMPLE, for some it may not be.

Description
This section is from the book "Cassell's Cyclopaedia Of Mechanics", by Paul N. Hasluck. Also available from Amazon: Cassell's Cyclopaedia Of Mechanics.

Separating Lead From Zinc
The mixture can be raised above a red heat, when the zinc will burn away; or it can be granulated, and then placed in acid to dissolve the zinc. Or stir into the molten mixture a quantity of ground sulphur, which will combine with the zinc and rise to the surface, and form a crust or cake, which can be taken off.

http://chestofbooks.com/crafts/mechanics/Cyclopaedia/Separating-Lead-From-Zinc.html

This section is from the book "Cassell's Cyclopaedia Of Mechanics", by Paul N. Hasluck. Also available from Amazon: Cassell's Cyclopaedia Of Mechanics.

Separating Lead From Zinc
The mixture can be raised above a red heat, when the zinc will burn away; or it can be granulated, and then placed in acid to dissolve the zinc. Or stir into the molten mixture a quantity of ground sulphur, which will combine with the zinc and rise to the surface, and form a crust or cake, which can be taken off.

snuffy
March 25, 2010, 12:40 AM
Guffey, a couple of thoughts-- The marveluxe that Brownells sells is one of the borate types. It has one major drawback, it's hygroscopic. That means it draws moisture from the atmosphere. Like salt does. Your steel of iron pot will rust badly if you use marveluxe.

Also, if you raise lead to a "red heat" it will boil AND vaporize. Lead vapor is some really nasty stuff, it'll raise your lead/blood levels if you breath it. Best bet is to keep the zinc from getting in the alloy to start with.

Ed_
March 25, 2010, 06:56 AM
When I first started casting I had concerns about zinc also, but I was informed that a drop of muriatic acid on my ingots will tell if there is any zinc present , it will react by fizzing / dancing .

None reacted so far.

Ed