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View Full Version : My first curio & relic. the mosin nagant.


young mosin
February 1, 2010, 06:10 PM
about one year ago i bought a sporterized m44 carbine, bad thing was the magazine didnt work and the bolt sliped right out. so my mom traded it back for full cash and got me a mossy 500. Well this christmas i got me a M91/30 from 1942 with a dark but not worn barrel. I am used to shooting scope and my visions terrible so i wasnt really good with it.


http://www.missouriwhitetails.com/forums/files.php?pid=1523961&aid=86492
http://www.missouriwhitetails.com/forums/files.php?pid=1523961&aid=86494http://www.missouriwhitetails.com/forums/files.php?pid=1523961&aid=86496

simonkenton
February 1, 2010, 06:49 PM
That is a good looking rifle!

You can get a scope mount for that rifle.

I know what you mean, I have Finnish M39 that I haven't shot in 3 years, I am not much good without a scope.

SigP6Carry
February 2, 2010, 10:12 PM
I have to argue differently. I have an 1891/30 and I can do about a 1.5" group at 100 yards without a scope... standing... without any wind... on a good day... with about 15 minutes between shots... but, still I do great groups with my 1891/30.

The trick is: a good barrel, trigger discipline and keen eye sight. I've never shot it benched. I assume mine would fire amazingly benched. But all 1891s fire very differently. I've heard some can't do better than 3MOA and others are sub 1.

Hope yours shoots fantastically when you finally slap a scope on it, youngin'.

kilimanjaro
February 2, 2010, 11:09 PM
Not to make assumptions, but if you aren't shooting well with iron sights, a scope will not make it any better.

Sight, relax, breathe, and squeeze. I've seen a lot of people who flinch or anticipate the recoil, they are literally afraid of the shot and their aim suffers accordingly.

SigP6Carry
February 2, 2010, 11:17 PM
well, I can see how folks with poor eyes might not be able to focus both the sites and the target at once. But, I don't know what it's like to have poor eyesight... so for certain people a scope may help.

simonkenton
February 3, 2010, 07:42 AM
young mosin said "my visions terrible."

I too have bad eyesight. I am 58 years old.

I am a damn good shot. I used to be a great shot with iron sights, until about ten years ago.


I can remember reading Jack O'Connor's book, he talked about how a scope is good "for aging eyes."
I didn't know what he was talking about.
I was 14 years old, I didn't realize that your vision goes bad when you get older.

30cal_Fun
February 6, 2010, 06:04 AM
Hi young mosin,

the 91/30 is a great rifle, congratulations with it! Its very forgiving, and easy to dis-assemble. I don't know if you have or are going to shoot corrosive ammo trough it (good chance you will with all the surplus ammo out there), but with some warm water trough the barrel right after shooting (some use a solvent or even windex) its not that different to clean than a normal rifle.
I clean mine with Balistol, great stuff! cleans, dissolves, lubricates, conserves (even the wood and leather) and everything else. butt I'm sure other people will have some good tips too.

I have one that is an infantry rifle outfitted with a scope, it shoots about 2MOA on a good day. the scope is a VERY good Ukrainian reproduction of the original PU-scope and has a very clear sight picture, as good as some modern day bottom line scopes. I LOVE THE PU-SCOPE! it gives that original WW2 look and its very easy to operate (to zero; just move POV to POI).
I don't have the best eyes myself (I am a bit near-sighted), and i have difficulty shooting iron-sighted at 100meters. and I thought I was the only one who had trouble with open sights, phew...:p (I'm 20 years old).
I don't know who made the scope, or where you can get it, since I got the rifle this way.
here's is a link to some pictures of it: http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=392934


There are some good reproductions out there, you can fit it yourself (see bottom link) if you're a bit handy, or you can have it done by a local gunsmith. here are some links to sites that offer reproductions. ONE TIP: cheap (less than 200 dollars for everything) usually means flimsy cast-iron mounts that can easily break of. mine is solid as a rock. Accumounts is very reliable, but expensive. and there are a lot of other places that sell the PU-scope to.
you can get an original for about 300-350 dollars from places like ebay.

http://www.accumounts.com/

http://www.opticsbestbuy.com/PU-Sniper-Scope-Black.html

If you want to do it yourself: http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting2005/mosinsniper/index.asp


If you DON'T want to alter it's original state, but still want a scope on it, you can go for a scout set-up, just google "mosin nagant scout scope" and you'll get a ton of options. it will replace the rear sight, you can do it yourself, NO GUN SMITHING REQUIRED, and you can still put it back to its original state.

let me know what you want to do with the rifle, I love my mosin nagant and its a great rifle, if you want to know anything, let me know.

take care and have fun,

Louis

young mosin
February 6, 2010, 11:58 AM
I do want to turn it into a sniper rifle since im a hunter.

30cal_Fun
February 6, 2010, 01:30 PM
the first thing is that you have to ask yourself is if you want the original "WW2 sniper" look (it does have the "cool" factor :cool:), or that you prefer the scout set-up. remember the scout set-up doesn't require any gunsmithing and you can do it yourself.

if you want to have the original look, it runs down to these options:
1. you find an original scope+mount+base on ebay, gunbroker or the likes and have it fixed to the rifle. will cost you about 300-350 dollars for a PU-scope type and some more if you want a PE or PEM style scope.
2. you find a reproduction scope+mount+base and have it fixed to the rifle. will cost you about 250-300 dollars for a PU-scope type and some more if you want a PE or PEM style scope.

you can see what it will look like if you see the link to my rifle in my previous post or google "Mosin Nagant PU (or PE/PEM) scope"


have you thought about what ammo you are going to shoot though it? mosin nagants do not like one single type of ammo as a rule, experiment with different brands to see which gets you the best results.

do some research and some looking around and Im sure you will find something that will look nice (and fit you wallet too if that's a factor :p)

simonkenton
February 6, 2010, 01:36 PM
I am in a dilemma with my M39.

As I said above, bad eyes, need scope. That is why I don't hunt with my 3 caplock rifles any more. I got a Savage muzzleloader with a scope, that is one fierce hunting rifle.

At any rate, I had 3 M39s, a Sako, a SkY, and a VKT.
So I wanted to hunt with them.
I bought a real nice scout mount, the Darrel mount. This is a very well made scout mount.
I bought a pistol scope and mounted it.
I didn't like it at all. I am used to a regular configuration for a scope, I could not get used to that long eye relief.
I sold the scope, and I still have the scout mount sitting around somewhere.
I don't want to drill and tap one of my beautiful Finnish rifles.

Now, a M91/30 I might be willing to drill and tap.

30cal_Fun
February 6, 2010, 03:26 PM
Hi Simonkenton,

you're absolutely right about not butchering your m39.
thou shalt not leave a Fin to bubba... :D
for the scout set-up, I don't have any experience with long-eye-relief scopes, so you're the authority here :).

did some more searching, and I think I found something just right for you! a scope mount for your m39 WITHOUT having to drill or tap, here is the link:
http://advancedrifleparts.com/
it still uses the rear sight, but thanks to the clamps that grip the receiver, you can use a normal scope set-up. however, I have no experience with this one. you still need a bent down bolt with it, but there is nothing with this option that doesn't permit you to put it back to it's original state.

Let me know what you think.

Louis

simonkenton
February 6, 2010, 03:45 PM
I tell you what, 30caliber, that is a good looking mount. I might have to get one.

And the guy he has a link to, The Boltman, is very good at bending the bolts.
He will bend your Mosin bolt for fifty bucks.

http://www.angelfire.com/gundam/boltman/bolt_work/

30cal_Fun
February 6, 2010, 04:05 PM
I can't argue with the bolt man, he delivers great work.

my advice: search some more, there may be more out there than I know of, but if you do go with the mount, let me know how it turns out, I'm very curious about it.

young mosin
February 6, 2010, 05:01 PM
I decided im working hard for the scope and bolt this summer.

benogil
February 6, 2010, 05:44 PM
Wait!!!
There is another mount, not cheap, and does require drill and tap. But, it will give you a regular mount.
Try Rock Solid Industries.

30cal_Fun
February 6, 2010, 05:55 PM
It requires gunsmithing like you said, so it might not be suited for a Finnish m39.
however, if gunsmithing is no problem , Rock Solid Industries seems to make a rock solid mount :) maybe another option for you young mosin...
thanks for the info benogil. do you have any experience with the mount?

young mosin
February 6, 2010, 06:03 PM
Its a russian 91/30 not a finnish m39

30cal_Fun
February 6, 2010, 06:34 PM
I was referring to Simonkenton's dilemma about his m39 when I said m39.
(your m91/30 is probably Russian, there were MANY country that used/made the mosin nagant in some configurations) but like I said, if gunsmithing is no problem, it will work just fine for your m91/30 too.

have you decided what you are going to do with your m91/30 as for scoping it?

young mosin
February 6, 2010, 07:41 PM
Im not butchering the rifle with all new scopes and such. Im getting a original mount and original PU scope. repro or not.

30cal_Fun
February 7, 2010, 04:22 AM
I think it will look great on your rifle young mosin!

I would get a good reproduction if I where you,
the optical quality of the repro's is much better than the originals so it will be the best option for your eyes. the original ones tend to have problems with clarity and parallax, things that will be a problem if your eyes are not 100%
Kalinka Optics used to make a good reproduction too, but I can't find it anymore.
I would do a search for a good reproduction, There is a lot of choice on the web.

Good luck and let us know if there's any progress.
Louis

young mosin
February 7, 2010, 12:40 PM
But one question. Is it going to be good with a dark bore but with good rifling?

young mosin
February 7, 2010, 12:53 PM
Also In the buttstock theres this black line that starts at the butt plate and goes up a couple inches. what is this?

simonkenton
February 7, 2010, 01:36 PM
It should shoot fine with the dark bore and the good rifling.

30cal_Fun
February 7, 2010, 01:40 PM
my bore isn't very shiny either, but still has very strong rifling. after all the cleaning I've done it's still dark, but it shoots well.
I wouldn't worry about the dark bore if I were you, if the rifling is good, the rifle will probably be a good shooter.

I don't know about the black line, it could be a crack, it could be anything. if you can make a good picture, maybe we can identify it.

benroe
February 7, 2010, 03:34 PM
Have any of you guys seen the UTG tri rail for the mosin?? It looks like a pretty hot setup.
http://store.a51tactical.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1646

30cal_Fun
February 7, 2010, 04:20 PM
to me, it looks like something for a Mall Ninja... a scout set-up isn't really my taste either, but this is just plain overkill.

I have no intention to offend you, and I hope I didn't Benroe (if I did I apologize) and I'm sure it will work fine, but I like classic rifles like the mosin nagant as original as possible.

SigP6Carry
February 7, 2010, 06:02 PM
The UTG rails really only have a place on the Mosins with the replacement stocks. You know the ones I mean. A tri-rail system and a mosin should not be mixed. Anything other than a scope you'd pop onto the rails also has no place on a Mosin.

young mosin
February 7, 2010, 06:06 PM
why would a mosin need to be tacti-cool anyway?

30cal_Fun
February 7, 2010, 07:11 PM
You're right about that Thomme.

good question Young Mosin; a lot of people like to "sporterize" old war horses, mostly so they can have a cost effective hunting rifle (especially because of all the surplus ammo), but still have modern advantages like a scope.
but some just seem to go berserk on their rifle, if you think thats the worst bubba can do, check out these ones below. yes, that's a mosin....

here is a whole thread about bubba'd mosins (edit: just checked, some pics don't work)
http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?30396-Worst-Bubba-d-Mosin-Nagants

simonkenton
February 7, 2010, 08:08 PM
30caliber:

On average; a pizza will arive faster than an ambulance.


I drove an ambulance for 14 years.
Why do you have such an asinine tag line?

olyinaz
February 7, 2010, 10:01 PM
Ya know, I saw that too and scratched my head with a, "Huh??" Maybe it's a Dutch thing? I gotta tell you 30cal, an ambulance will arrive in the U.S. really damn fast! And we have some of the best emergency response personnel in the world to go with it. Is there some sort of problem in Holland?

Respectfully,
Oly

30cal_Fun
February 8, 2010, 02:30 AM
I am sorry if it is offensive, I do have a lot of respect for people who drive an ambulance, and any other personnel in this sector I do not mean to attack anyone personally. I think the ambulance does a fine job at saving lives everyday.

there was a survey once (both in the UK and in The Netharlands), and it turned out that on average a pizza did arrive faster than an ambulance. but like a any other tag-line, you shouldn't take it literately. what I mean to say with is that you can't just always rely on other people, you should always try to take care of yourself, because there is no guarantee that others can always help you. with 7 billion people on this earth, there is no way an ambulance can be anywhere within a few minutes even with all the dedication and expertise these people have.
I am merely trying to make people start to think about trying to be prepared as much as possible. a lot people don't even have a first aid kit at home, and from the ones who do, there are a lot who don't know how to use most of it.

In The Netherlands (I don't know how it is in other countries) an ambulance is used more for non-emergency transport than real life threatening situations. this puts an immense stress on the personnel. if ordinary people would not try to rely on others as much as people do these days, there would be a lot less pizza's needed and above all a lot less ambulances needed.

gandog56
February 8, 2010, 10:06 AM
A Mosin Nagant was my first C&R purchase. Ten Mosins later, I varied and got a Lee Enfield No.4 Mk.1, a K98, and a Steyr M95. Then I decided to get some pistols. Got an M1895, CZ52, and a CZ82.

olyinaz
February 8, 2010, 11:51 AM
What I mean to say with is that you can't just always rely on other people, you should always try to take care of yourself, because there is no guarantee that others can always help you. With 7 billion people on this earth, there is no way an ambulance can be anywhere within a few minutes even with all the dedication and expertise these people have. I am merely trying to make people start to think about trying to be prepared as much as possible. A lot people don't even have a first aid kit at home, and from the ones who do, there are a lot who don't know how to use most of it.

As I suspected there's a cultural disconnect happening. 30cal, something to be aware of on this mostly American forum (where you are very welcome and we're happy to see you) is that not only does your tag line not make much sense to an American (given how fast our ambulances arrive) but that America was founded on a "can do" mentality by those who forged the country out of the wilderness through cunning and preparedness. A guns forum like this is even more inclined in that direction.

Most folks I know where I live in the U.S. do indeed have emergency supplies at home (to include stockpiles of water and food). Are 20-something kids in the big cities as well prepared? Not so much, but by the time they get a family and grow up a bit most of them do. Country folks are more practical from the get go in my experience growing up on a farm in the Heartland.

I think your sentiment is a good one but it doesn't translate well to Americans so perhaps a better/more catchy phrase or quote would be more appropriate? I think you can do better. ;)

One thing's for sure - you've got me looking at the Mosin sniper repro for sale at my local sporting goods store! It's $400 which I just can't pull the trigger on but perhaps it'll go on sale and I'll snap it up. :)

Cheers,
Oly

young mosin
February 8, 2010, 12:26 PM
pu Scopes are really expensive. should i just get a reproduction rifle or the scope package.

SigP6Carry
February 8, 2010, 12:32 PM
Well, you'll have to get your bolt bent, drill and tap the receiver... and even then, if you're gun isn't accurate, it'd be for little more than looks.

How's your gun shoot? If you shoot sub 2" groups at 100yards, it should be ok.

young mosin
February 8, 2010, 01:16 PM
I cant shoot with iron sights. my bullets are everywhere. my uncle did make two shots near the bullseye though

SigP6Carry
February 8, 2010, 01:28 PM
two shots near the bullseye an approximation of accuracy doesn't make. If you're going to sink the money into turning it into a PU sniper (with will be about $60-100 for the bolt body or to bend your existing bolt body plus $2-300 for the scope and mount) you should figure out how well the gun shoots. Don't you wear glasses or contacts? My girlfriend's half blind, but she can still shoot with irons.

30cal_Fun
February 8, 2010, 01:40 PM
Thanks for the understanding Olyinaz,

"America was founded on a "can do" mentality by those who forged the country out of the wilderness through cunning and preparedness."
This is exactly why I like American forums like this so much, because of your history, there is a lot more experience, know how, understanding and practical ingenuity about things like being prepared for the worst than with us city folks here, Holland is a small country with about 17 million people, so everything is cramped, there just isn't any room to go hiking or hunting (even still, because of all the rules and regulations it will still take AT LEAST 2,5 years to get a hunting license IF you can find and hire a patch of land).
so practical knowledge like being able to make a fire, having emergency preparations, being able to catch a rabbit, let alone marksmanship is non existent with the youth these days.

I am 20 myself, and most of my age group is (besides school) to busy getting drunk, playing Call of Duty and trying-to-wear-their-pants-as-low-as-possible-until-it-hangs-on-their-knees and not-giving-a-damn-about-anything. the cultural disconnection of the youth from it's heritage is very strong here.
I don't deny playing a game once in a while myself, but it doesn't control my life like a lot of teenagers these days. And I sure get strange faces when I tell people that some of my favorite historical figures are Sergei Mosin, Elmer Keith and Chuck Mawhinney. :rolleyes:

until I can come up with a catchier signature phrase, Im removing te old one. :)

Thanks, take care and the best to all of you,

Louis

young mosin
February 8, 2010, 01:43 PM
I got glasses and contacts. just dont use em.

gandog56
February 9, 2010, 05:16 PM
Then why bother getting them?

30cal_Fun
February 11, 2010, 01:19 AM
"If you're going to sink the money into turning it into a PU sniper (with will be about $60-100 for the bolt body or to bend your existing bolt body plus $2-300 for the scope and mount) you should figure out how well the gun shoots."
+1
I am sure there is someone at the range that has had a lot of trigger time and that you know can shoot accurately very consistently regardless of the weapon used, ask him/her to shoot the rifle and see what it does, if it shoots within 2 MOA, go for it and get it "sniperized"

one more thing: why are you not using your glasses/contacts? seems like a waste.

jsmaye
February 11, 2010, 08:41 AM
A Mosin Nagant was my first C&R purchase. Ten Mosins later, I varied and got a Lee Enfield No.4 Mk.1, a K98, and a Steyr M95. Then I decided to get some pistols. Got an M1895, CZ52, and a CZ82.

Your and my collections are fairly close (2 91/30s, M91/38, K31, M95, K98k, M24/47, vz 52, vz 82, & PA-63), and now I'm considering jumping on the Enfield wagon. With all your Mosins and other European weapons, what do you like about the Enfield?

gandog56
February 19, 2010, 03:21 PM
Oh yeah, forgot my Yugo SKS.
What do I like about the Enfield? well the recoil isn't bad, I use the same bullets to reload for it as my Mosins, and a 10 round mag is nice, too.

Cheapshooter
February 20, 2010, 06:55 PM
I have to ask you YM, do you have a lot of experience shooting? Do you shoot well with other rifles that are scoped? Is it possible that you just need a lot of range time getting used to the MN. All C&Rs are not created equal! Some 91-30s are absolute tack drivers while others are really poor. There are some out there that are called Ex-Snipers. They were taken out of service as a sniper rifle, had the holes for the mount filled, and put in storage. Some were because the need for sniper rifles was not that great at the time, some were because they failed to be accurate enough for sniper use. If you truly need to scope your Mn for hunting, give serious consideration to the scout mount setup.

confederatemule
February 20, 2010, 07:14 PM
I would like to make a comment on eye sight. I wear tri focal glasses. The top segment is for arms length to 5', or so. The bottom segment is for less than arms length. The main body of the lens is for more than 5 '.

When trying to aim with iron sights, I either focus on the front sight, rear sight, or target. No two points at the same time. I usually try to focus on the target and get a, not so clear, picture of front sight and rear sight.
On top of all that, I am right eyed, left handed, and have cataracts in my right eye. I used to be a very good shot, not so, now.

I just don't shoot as much as I used to. Well, not hardly at all. But I still want the guns.

I am very new to any military guns. Although I have owned a Russian SKS, for around 20 years. I had to clean the cosmolene, but when I got finished with it, Wow! With the laminated stock and perfect bluing [no scratches nor dents, cause it has never been used] it is the most beautiful gun I have ever seen. BTW... there are numbers in four different places [even the stock] and they all match. I didn't look for a number on the bayonet. If they are numbered I am sure they will match.

Sorry bout the lengthy post, but I have one more question. What does PU stand for?

Mule

TX Hunter
March 1, 2010, 09:57 PM
Young Mossin
Thats a nice looking rifle, There are scope mounts available for the Mossin.
If your vision is not very good a scope might help.
I dont have very good vision either, but my glasses correct that, and I am able to shoot Iron Sights pretty well.
I do prefer a Scope for long Range shooting though, a lot more precision.

MagnumWill
March 1, 2010, 11:27 PM
Have any of you guys seen the UTG tri rail for the mosin?? It looks like a pretty hot setup.
http://store.a51tactical.com/index.p...oducts_id=1646

*shudder* :confused:

So you want it to look like this? Get the bolt from buymilsurp.com, they did a phenominal job on mine. Picked up the scope and mount from Gunbroker. This was also my first Mosin, with a pretty good bore. Haven't bench-rested it yet, but it is minute-of-clay-pigeon at 100 yards so far.

Also, that scope has a nice long eye relief, so it'll be friendly to anyone who has glasses. You'll need them, since these scopes don't correct for vision.

http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/13/l_353f5d7f2797b6aa3b5942299c6c75cb.jpg

jsmaye
March 2, 2010, 08:42 AM
What do I like about the Enfield? well the recoil isn't bad, I use the same bullets to reload for it as my Mosins, and a 10 round mag is nice, too.

With all your Mosins, I can't believe you care about recoil.

Well, on second thought, maybe you care about recoil because of all your Mosins...;)

(<BOOM!> ouch! <BOOM!> OUCH! <BOOM!> OUCH! <BOOM!> Ok, time to go home now...)