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pigpen8181
January 30, 2010, 11:25 PM
New guy here just started getting into long range shooting. Close friend of mine is making a custom made Savage 300 win mag. But can't figure out what long range tactical scope to put on it. His brother said get a Dark Ops Rifle Scope Countersniper 6X25 56Mm because of long range shooting. Distance shooting from 100 to 900 yards, but the friend says all I need is a scope with a max of 10x or 12x at the most because after that he says it just gets too blurry with the mil dot and magnification. Need some input on the scope?

T. O'Heir
January 31, 2010, 01:45 AM
Hi. There's no such thing as a 'tactical' scope. The term is a marketing thing only. Mildots aren't the 'be all and end all' either. Lot of marketing with them too. Big learning curve with 'em too.
A scope is just a sight. They don't make a rifle shoot better. They just let you see the target better. In any case, a 10X or 12X is plenty for 100 to 900 yards. I might go to 15X, but 25X is too much if you want to shoot at 100 yards. Your buddy is right, a 25X will be blurry at 100.
"...300 Win Mag..." Hopefully with a premium, heavy, barrel. Knew a guy who regularly won 1,000 yard matches with the .300 mag he had built. Douglas premium SS barrel on a Winchester M70A action. Bought the 70A just for the receiver. Guy was an Hydro(our electricity maker)engineer. (I got the nice walnut stock for $20, I think. It wasn't recently. Put it on my .243 Cooey M71.) The rifle weighed 17.5 pounds. No sissypod either. He used 190 grain match bullets. The ammo is far more important than the sights anyway.

pigpen8181
February 1, 2010, 08:46 AM
Thanks for the info. That's why I am here so I can hear it from other people with experience instead of just 2.

Uncle Buck
February 1, 2010, 09:20 AM
A scope is just a sight. They don't make a rifle shoot better.

I wish more people would understand this. They think just because they can see the target better their rifle is going to magically place the bullet in the cross hairs.

Think of aiming points. Using the scope, shoot 200 yards. Save the target for future reference.

Now shoot at a target 300 yards away. If you pick the same aiming point that you used on the 200 yard target, you'll see the bullet impacted in a different area. You will have to aim above the area you want the bullet to impact.

Shoot at a target, using the scope, that has been moved to 400 yards. Use the same aiming point you used on the 200 yard target. Shoot the same aiming point you adjusted to on the 300 target. You'll notice the big difference.

Sometime along your range shooting you are going to have to change your ammunition. (I do not shoot the 300 Win Mag, so I am not familiar with its' trajectory) Are you going to have enough stopping power at 900 yards?

Glad to see you are smart enough to ask questions and not fall into the "But the magazine said...." category with-out a little research.

Happy shooting. May your targets be easy and your trajectory true.

kraigwy
February 1, 2010, 11:15 AM
I think your friend is correct ref. 10X scope for long range shooting. I've been using the Weaver T-10 on my Model 70 300 WM 1000 yard rifle for about 30 years and never needed more power..

There is a lot of mirage between your barrel and the target 1000 yards away. Higher magnification is going to distort the target. But there is another problem you don’t see on these forms. That being the heat rising off the barrel. A typical 1000 yard match consist of one or more 20 shot matches, most with unlimited sightseers until you start shooting for record. Even the heaviest barrel is going to give you heat waves coming off the barrel. You magnify these heat waves it going to blur out the target and interfere with your ability to judge mirage and other conditions.

20-25 X is the best I've found for judging mirage. BUT: you don't focus the scope at the target; you focus it about half to 2/3s way to the target. This will give you a fuzzy target but, easy to read mirage. So you want the 20-25 power, but not on the rifle. Use a spotting scope, if set up properly, all you have to do is turn your head away from the rifle and look in the spotting scope.

Now again, here is another problem with the high power scope on the rifle that you don’t see covered in these forums. People have a tendency to focus the scope on the target, you pretty much half to if you want a clear target. If you screw up and have your scope focused short of the target, not much of a problem, however, if you focus the scope beyond the, for some unknown reason, it reverses the mirage. Meaning, if you focus the scope short of the target you can see, (for an example) the marage going from left to right, but if the scope is focused beyond the target the same mirage will appear to be going from right to left.

We played with this in sniper school and the National Guard MTU Coaches clinic to show us the reversing of mirage when focusing beyond the target.

I do use higher power scopes, a 24 X Remington, but only shooting small bore. At 50 ft to 50 yards you don’t have the problem with mirage plus 22s don’t develop the heat radiating off the barrel.

IMHO that 8-10 power is the best, never more than 12 power. Then get a spotting scope 20-25 X for judging conditions. You don’t need any more then that because you can’t see bullet holes on a target at 1000 yards with any scope. You can see the spotters on the target with an 8-10 scope.

When I was coaching National Guard Rifle teams, I use the 100 MM spotting scope behind the shooter. I never needed anything more than the 24 X eye piece that came with the scope. (It came with 16 to 32 X eye pieces).