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View Full Version : FFg powder in a cap 'n ball remington Safe?


wogpotter
January 22, 2010, 06:49 PM
The reason I ask is that I have a 1 Lb container of FFg black powder substitute, but the only BP firearm I have is a .44 Rem '58 replica.
Can I shoot this in safety?
Not 100% concerned about other things , like accuracy, but deadly serious about safety. This is fired just for fun so if it suffers in other departments that are non-damaging to owner & pistol then I'd like to use it.
My current powder measure is a .357 mag case if that helps.

hickstick_10
January 22, 2010, 06:53 PM
its fine

Mark whiz
January 22, 2010, 08:27 PM
ffg will be perfectly safe in an 1858. It will be a bit underpowered and probably not as accurate, but it's safe.

I WOULD advise getting a real powder measure for it though. 30gr is a maximum charge for that pistol and I'm not quite sure how many grains a .357 case will hold.

Mark whiz
January 22, 2010, 08:49 PM
Ok - here's a news update...................
I just measured a .357mag case with ffg 777 powder and it measures out to 25gr......................so using that case will be safe as a measure.

simonkenton
January 22, 2010, 09:38 PM
A .38 special case holds 23 grains of fffg black powder.

madcratebuilder
January 22, 2010, 11:26 PM
I hope your all on the same page, weight by volume, not scale weight.:eek:

Model-P
January 23, 2010, 01:27 AM
A cap-and-ball revolver doesn't care one bit what you use as a measure. You're making a mountain out of a mole hill. As long as you can seat the ball flush or below the face of the cylinder you are good to go. And, yes, FFg is fine.

madcratebuilder
January 23, 2010, 07:46 AM
A cap-and-ball revolver doesn't care one bit what you use as a measure. You're making a mountain out of a mole hill. As long as you can seat the ball flush or below the face of the cylinder you are good to go. And, yes, FFg is fine.

If the only powder used was black powder that would be true, but many people shoot substitutes. These loading notes (http://www.hodgdon.com/loading.html) well give you some insight to the importance of using load by volume.

mykeal
January 23, 2010, 07:54 AM
'weight by volume'???
load by volume, perhaps.

darkgael
January 23, 2010, 08:05 AM
If the only powder used was black powder that would be true, but many people shoot substitutes.
Subs, with one exception, load the same volumes as real BP.
The powder that requires some adjustment is Triple Seven. Hodgdon recommends a 15% reduction. If the measure used has a 25 grain volume and the max charge for the pistol is 30 grains, by default there is already more than a 15% reduction (16.67%).
Pete

wogpotter
January 23, 2010, 08:58 AM
Thanks for the info, guys. The powder in question is "American Pioneer" not a Hodgson product as far as I can tell, if that makes any difference.

I have somewhere a chart of volumes per case size for common brass when used as a volumetric powder scoop/measure. This is what I've been using (rather like the scoops that come with Lee Loaders). It lists charge volumes for .380, 9mm, 38 Spl, 357 mag, 41 & 44 colt.

Can somone please explain how the heck you load "by volume":confused:? Isn't this what you do every time you throw a powder charge on a smokless case with a powder measure

madcratebuilder
January 23, 2010, 10:43 AM
'weight by volume'???
load by volume, perhaps.

Correct, just checking to see if you were awake:rolleyes:

I plead insufficient coffee.

Hawg
January 23, 2010, 12:18 PM
It will be a bit underpowered and probably not as accurate

I disagree, I cant tell any difference from a revolver with power or accuracy.

Can somone please explain how the heck you load "by volume"? Isn't this what you do every time you throw a powder charge on a smokless case with a powder measure

Yes but backed up by weight. You can weigh real bp same as smokeless because thats what smokeless charges were originally based on but the subs must be measured by volume with weight never entering the picture.

Gator_Weiss
January 23, 2010, 01:12 PM
FF is fine.

FFF burns better in the pistol.

In all likeliehood, people in the older days probably had access (at times) to only one type of powder, and shooting FF in their handgun was probably common.

My Great Uncle (long deceased) who was a dedicated BP shooter, sometimes crushed small amounts of single F musket powder to make him some flash powder for the pan. He put "F" on many occasions in his single-shot pistols, just as he did his muskets. Everything went "boom" and made smoke. Balls flew down range. No problem. He loved flint ignition.

My question would be, what happens when you put FFFF flash powder down the muzzle of a Musket? Does it burn too fast? Too "sharp" of a "boom" in the barrel? Or would it work and not hurt anything?

robhof
January 23, 2010, 01:20 PM
The finer powder would produce a more rapid pressure spike and if used to the same measure as the larger grain, possibly dangerously high. I have used 4f in my ROA and it makes a bigger boom than the 3f, but Rugers are stronger than the average b/p gun.

mykeal
January 23, 2010, 01:48 PM
I'm not convinced the pressures would be 'dangerously' high, but all the test results I've seen show that the measured muzzle velocities and corresponding energies were very inconsistent when ffffg was used as a propellant. A few of the shots were unusually high in velocity, but not so high as to infer dangerous pressure levels.

The latest set of data I've seen were posted on The Muzzleloading Forum under the thread titled "Velocities with different powder granulations" in the General Muzzleloading subforum.

darkgael
January 24, 2010, 10:01 AM
About using FFFFg - its normal and most frequent use is as a priming charge in flinlocks. In general, its use as a main powder charge is avoided. You will go far and wide before you will find many shooters who will say to you "4F - no problem, just load it up." There are folks who will shoot in in just about any gun; for many, that practice is a good example of a note that I saw the other day in one of these fora: "just because you can, doesn't mean you should"
Pete