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View Full Version : which pump shotgun will last the longest?


Super-Dave
January 16, 2010, 08:47 PM
Assuming you clean the shotgun when needed:


What pump shotgun will probably shoot the most shells before something breaks?

colostomyclown
January 16, 2010, 09:00 PM
Ithaca 37.

w_houle
January 16, 2010, 09:04 PM
Ithaca 37.
+1

jmr40
January 16, 2010, 09:08 PM
The 870 has the track record none of the others have. I suspect that the Benelli may prove to be the toughest design. Get back to me in about 50 years.

oneounceload
January 16, 2010, 09:19 PM
Any of the above will last a long time if properly maintained....(and most likely even if not properly maintained)

zippy13
January 16, 2010, 09:27 PM
The Closet Queen.
You know, the HD gun that's shot once and put into perpetual storage. It might come out to add some new tacti-cool device and then returned to the closet to be kept in a "like new" condition.

colostomyclown
January 16, 2010, 09:32 PM
The 870 has the track record none of the others have. I suspect that the Benelli may prove to be the toughest design. Get back to me in about 50 years. - JMR



Ithaca 37

Designer John Browning and John Pedersen
Designed 1933




Remington 870

Designed 1951



just sayin'.

mike4
January 16, 2010, 09:35 PM
depends on how they are kept and rate of usage. I've seen many banged up ,old 870's in many police cars and weapon rooms.
Mossberg is a lighter biult sg. Winch's have also showed longevity. I'm a benelli enthusiast but have all brands and really have'nt seen any very old ,battered nelli's. My m4 definately feels like it could last straight into my grandson's grandson's life. Btw my grandson is not born yet.

Maser
January 16, 2010, 09:36 PM
As much as I love the Mossberg 500 because I got mine when I was 12 and I feel it's the best pump gun ever made, I have to go with the Ithaca 37. I have seen some really beat up 37s and they function flawlessly in spite of their cosmetic flaws.

noyes
January 16, 2010, 09:58 PM
On my Mossberg 590 the magazine follower looks like the part that will wear out first.

Danielcan
January 16, 2010, 10:05 PM
I like the remington 3 and a half inch with the synthetic stock, and id get the rifled barrel too. but i like the silent operation of my hundred year old parker side by side,

the rifleer
January 16, 2010, 10:30 PM
if you keep it clean and well maintained i don't think that you will live long enough to wear any of them out.

jhgreasemonkey
January 17, 2010, 02:16 AM
Okay I will agree, my ithaca 37 is from the 1950's and still as solid as ever. Solid steel, no alloy or plastic. My answer though is "the one you take care of".

johnwilliamson062
January 17, 2010, 03:07 AM
I think any of these properly cared for could easily go through several generations. I am willing to be there are people here with shotguns that weren't as well made as these and weren't taken care of that have lasted several generations.

jmr40
January 17, 2010, 08:08 AM
Colostomyclown,

Not disagreeing with you, but the Ithaca is not on the poll.

The Ithaca, 870, as well as the Winchester 12 (also not on the poll), have proven they can stand up to well over 100,000 rounds, some have documented over 200,000 rounds through them. While not used as much today,they were all used by high volume trap shooters back in the day.

None of the others have that kind of record to back up the claims.

Most of us will never shoot any of them enough to wear them out, but that was not the question. With the aluminum receiver the Mossberg would probably be the 1st to die.

Dragon55
January 17, 2010, 09:08 AM
I voted Winchester 1200 because I still hunt with it and bought it in 1972.

Skeet shot with it for years. So I guess it's gonna outlast me.

SEHunter
January 17, 2010, 09:15 AM
Remington model 870 is the standard in pump shotguns.

Negative comments towards the model 870 will clearly show
these persons have no knowledge of firearms, shotguns or the
shotgunning sport.

earlthegoat2
January 17, 2010, 09:25 AM
ALL Of THE ABOVE

darkgael
January 17, 2010, 09:53 AM
They are all good guns. Given proper care they should all last a loooong time.
How could you forget the Ithaca 37?
Why is it that so often in polls like these the Ithaca gets left out? Not in production?
One of the finest pump guns ever made - look at how many votes it got without being included.
Pete

Super-Dave
January 17, 2010, 10:16 AM
Its left out because it is not common. There is not a gun store within 100 miles or more of here that sells any Ithaca shotguns.

oletymer
January 17, 2010, 10:47 AM
They are in production. You can order one directly from Ithaca if you have no dealer close to you.

hogdogs
January 17, 2010, 11:13 AM
For anyone with the "BANK" and desire to find out, I offer to find out for ya...

One of each and an open $$$ account for the ammo...

I will document the ammo consumption of each to the shell... I will also include the session time frame and type of shooting be it high speed shooting and reloads or more typical shooting.

I bet I have a hard time finding a major failure in any of the well known designs.

After a pre-determined amount of shells, 100K or 200K, I will no longer give the guns any maintenance and we will see if that finds a weakness and when.
Brent

USMCGrunt
January 17, 2010, 11:40 AM
I also agree that the Ithaca 37 has stood the test of time. However, out of those listed, I voted for the Mossberg. Now I know folks will cite the aluminum receiver not being as strong as the steel receiver of the 870 but I will cite the shell latches and ejector that are staked in place in the 870 receiver. We had a couple old 870s in our armory that were restaked several times over the years and they were one or maybe two more restaking jobs at best away from having to be returned to depot as unrepairable. Any time you have to do something with restaking, there is going to be a finite number of times you can do it before you run out of metal and here is where that issue exists on the 870 that is often overlooked by non-armorer types.

hogdogs
January 17, 2010, 11:47 AM
Grunt, I also point out that there is that Murphy feller in the field...

Not only the finite number of times a repair can be done, You also have gunk, grunge and other nasty cooties that can get behind both staked items and a full cleaning behind is very difficult under controlled conditions and impossible under stressed conditions... Give me some good ol' cover fire and 10 minutes and I can strip and clean YOUR 500 in the heat of battle and return it ready to go back to work! If an action bar failed, and one is still there, I will remove the failed one and return the gun ready work with a single bar...;)

I ain't a 'smith but I arz a redneck!
Brent

noyes
January 17, 2010, 11:55 AM
With the aluminum receiver the Mossberg would probably be the 1st to die.

Lets start a list of aluminum receiver guns.

M 16
AR 15
Beretta
Browning
L1A1
Remington


Feel free to add more aluminum receiver guns & shotguns to the list.

fisherman66
January 17, 2010, 11:57 AM
I can only express my familiarity in pumps with a modern production 870 and a mid 50's Winchester Model 12. I would expect the Model 12 to give the 870 a good run fer longevity king. I default to the Ithaca crowd.

I'd prefer a Win 23 XTR, but that's a pretty big departure from what we are talking about.

hogdogs
January 17, 2010, 12:04 PM
My Ruger P-85 was alloy and durable as heck!
Brent

BigJimP
January 17, 2010, 01:08 PM
Browning BPS / with a close 2nd to the 870 Wingmaster ( but only the Wingmaster model of the 870 - not the rest in my opinion ) - and a close 3rd to the Winchester model 12..... In my opinion.

Te Anau
January 17, 2010, 01:36 PM
I've always been led to believe that the Ithaca 37 has some fatal flaw in its design.Anyone?

ishida336
January 17, 2010, 04:03 PM
The one you bought.
And take care of.

Shane Tuttle
January 17, 2010, 04:16 PM
With many, many thousands of these models produced and many thousands of people with totals of millions upon millions of reliable rounds fired, you will not find a definitive answer. All you're going to hear is members' experiences with what works for them. There's nothing wrong with that. Just stating it's going to go nowhere in the quest for the Holy Grail.

SilentHitz
January 17, 2010, 04:32 PM
I've always been led to believe that the Ithaca 37 has some fatal flaw in its design.Anyone? Couldn't prove it by me, Dad had one bought in the early 50's and hunted Dove, rabbit, squirrel, deer, turkey, ect. with it for years. I got it when I outgrew my .410 and did the same thing, now my brother has it. Never a malfunction, and besides regular cleaning, never a screw turned on it....if it had a fatal flaw, I think I would have found it in my youth LOL.

the quest for the Holy Grail...begins in the chamber of an Ithaca...sorry, couldn't resist. Tuttle is right IMO, you would really have to abuse the hell out of most pump guns to wear it out...of any brand.

darkgael
January 17, 2010, 06:26 PM
Its left out because it is not common. There is not a gun store within 100 miles or more of here that sells any Ithaca shotguns.
Must be regional. There's a store not far from me that had eight on the rack last time I was there.
Pete

Dave McC
January 17, 2010, 07:30 PM
A non issue.

Any of those will last longer than we, given some PM and TLC.

Ad that includes the bargain basement po' relation of the 500, the Maverick.

A couple examples.....

Anecdotal evidence I see repeatedly states the receivers on 870s used for trap oft start cracking at the rear of the ejection port at about round 250,000.

Remington used to replace these, but currently they just tell you to buy another. I can relate to that.

And, when the state of MD opened a prison in 1981, they put two 870s aside for training weapons. Average monthly shell use was 500 to 1000 rounds between pre service and requals.

Each.

As with most agency weapons, cleaning was slapdash for the most part and done by under motivated, non firearm cognizant, lackadaisical people.

When I retired in 1998, the only parts replaced on one weapon was the lumber. The other had rotated into the towers and was on duty with the rest.

Performance was flawless.

A good friend shoots a Model 12 he's had for decades. A trap model built in the 30s and that's what he uses it for. He's a truthful sort, and says his records indicate he's run 230K rounds through it. Not trouble free, it had some trigger issues requiring shop time with a very good smith.

Two acquaintances are brothers, and share the custody of a well worn Model 97. It has little blue left, the bead had been replaced a few times and they gave up and soldered on a ramp when the metal wouldn't take the thread tap any more. Other than that and a few strip and cleans at a smith over the decades, it's been trouble and PM free since before WWI.

97s are not known as the smoothest shuckers, but this one mimics butter. It has taken everything from deer to squirrels and sat behind the door on a Appalachian cabin, just in case.

And while 37s are not range tools,mostly, I know of several that are on third and fourth generation owners and have lots of stories in them we'll never get to hear.

I have lots of input and decades of experience with shotguns. I can recall only a few lemon pump guns.

There was the Noble. Someone had been smoking tar paper shingles when they thought up that mess.

The best description I ever heard of came from a smith who, despite expertise in his field, refused to work on them.

"The Noble is a poorly designed and made hunk of trash that must have been thought up in the Kremlin to frustrate American shooters. Toss this piece of junk away and get you anything else".....

Some of the older Savages were problematic. I can't recall which models at this time. The Browning designs weren't the problems.

Same with the Springfields, owned by Savage.

Early S&W shotguns made in Japan had the rep of being Divas, but the ones I've seen in private hands worked well. As Agency arms, they faded fast.

That's about it, get anything else and you'll likely be happy with it and so will your grandkids.....

BarkSlayer
January 17, 2010, 10:30 PM
That's kind of like asking, "How long is a piece of string?"

LukeA
January 17, 2010, 10:53 PM
With proper maintenance, any one of those guns will outlast any of us by a wide margin.

MagnumWill
January 18, 2010, 12:37 PM
With proper maintenance, any one of those guns will outlast any of us by a wide margin.

+1

If I had to choose, it'd be my 590A1. It takes 200-300 rounds to break the sucker in until the action feels normal.

hometheaterman
January 18, 2010, 01:24 PM
The 870 has the track record none of the others have. I suspect that the Benelli may prove to be the toughest design. Get back to me in about 50 years.I think the reason the 870 has a good track record is because the Wingmasters which have been around for a long long time have a great track record. A lot of people I've talked to say how great 870's are when they have a Wingmaster. Others take that to mean all 870's are great. IMO and many others the 870 Express guns just aren't that great in fit or finish. If going with a 870 I'd go with a Wingmaster or 870P only. If I wasn't going to go with one of those I'd pick a different gun.

MrPink
January 18, 2010, 02:07 PM
Another vote for the Ithaca 37

Buzzcook
January 18, 2010, 04:29 PM
Any wel built pump action will last longer than you.

jmr40
January 18, 2010, 05:13 PM
No one is disputing that any pump will outlast the owner. But, that was not the question.

ronto
January 18, 2010, 05:39 PM
It depends if you leave 'em out in the rain or not...they will all outlast us if properly cared for and who cares if they last longer than that.

kozak6
January 18, 2010, 10:01 PM
It's neat to see so many replies for the Ithaca. It usually seems to be one of the more ignored shotguns on the forum.

My Ithaca was built in 1955. It's still going strong.

treefarmernc
January 18, 2010, 10:17 PM
I own (2) 870 Wingmasters,1 Mossberg 500 and one Maverick 88. Both the Mossberg and the Maverick have been worked own and both Remingtons have been through several thousand rounds and have never had a malfunction. My vote goes for the 870, at least the earlier models any way (up until mid to late 90’s).

jen45acp
January 18, 2010, 10:36 PM
We have a Winchester model 1912 built in 1915 and it has been used and passed down thru the generations, I am not certain but it probably has about 100,000 or so rounds thru it. So far it has not appeared to have been worked on and the full choke barrel is still close to spec. ;) We still Trap Shoot with it when the folks come to visit.

Pathfinder45
January 19, 2010, 03:41 AM
..... is a 1912 Winchester 12 gauge built in 1914. The blueing is gone but it still works great. 96 years old and still bustin' clays like it was new.

alloutracing
January 19, 2010, 06:45 AM
I have both Winchester pump & Remington 870. I have 4 Remington 870's 2 in 12 ga & 2 in 12 ga. One each has a cantilever barrels for deer hunting. I would have to say my 870 see more action then any other shotgun that i own.

CajunBass
January 19, 2010, 07:06 AM
If you ever manage to wear one out...brag about it.

Morgoroth
January 19, 2010, 08:03 AM
Some of you guys said you like the wingmaster's better and some don't like the Maverick's.

So, why?
What is different from the Express to the Wingmaster?
What is different from the 500 to the Maverick?

To be clear, I mean specifically mechanically. Not, "My great great granddaddy had a wingmaster."

Ok, reading some other threads I found this http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=1&t=177796
which answers my questions on the Remington quite well.
I am still curious about the Mossberg's though.

darkgael
January 19, 2010, 09:12 AM
No one is disputing that any pump will outlast the owner. But, that was not the question.
With all due respect....it is a poor question. It is unanswerable in any real sense....as many of the posts have indictated.
Questions involving superlatives .....longest, best, most....are categorically impossible to answer accurately without some qualification.
"last the longest" - under what type of use, for instance? If I buy any one of those and leave it in the box, it will pretty much last forever. Even if you wrote "normal use", you'd still be too general.
What exactly do you mean by "breaking"? Do you mean having a small part break and need repair? Do you mean that it won't fire? Do you mean that the gun can't be fixed and needs to be replaced?
Pete

johnwilliamson062
January 19, 2010, 10:24 AM
In my opinion, which is based on pretty limited experience, pump shotguns is the area of firearms with the least difference between different brands and almost no material outside of ergonomics.

hogdogs
January 19, 2010, 11:17 AM
What is different from the 500 to the Maverick?
The Mav 88 has a crossbolt safety on the trigger group versus the tang safety on the 500... that is 'bout it...
Brent

Morgoroth
January 19, 2010, 11:40 AM
Thanks!

Super-Dave
January 19, 2010, 04:40 PM
My question was in reference to an actual part breaking.

darkgael
January 19, 2010, 05:55 PM
My question was in reference to an actual part breaking.

Something like - "Starting from new, which of these guns would most likely be the first to have a part break?"

Pete

Super-Dave
January 19, 2010, 06:48 PM
thats it.

carpshooter
January 23, 2010, 06:53 PM
870 is the only one here ,except maybe the Browning !:rolleyes:

bswiv
January 23, 2010, 07:01 PM
I love my old Mossberg 500 and hogdogs is right about the action bars, but of the older designs I would pass another vote for the Mad. 37. My dad had one and shot the urin out of it and it NEVER needed a thing done to it.

That said I do not see the average, heck the above average shooter, EVER wearing out a pump.

I will though stick with my old Mossberg...........

bamaranger
January 23, 2010, 10:16 PM
I have a brother in law that shoots trap w/ a custom 870. (special bbl/rib and butt stock). The receiver is stock 870 ( and I think trigger group too)
He is in- to- it.

He told me one time the # of estimated rounds he's put through the gun.
I don't recall the #, exactly, but it was in the tens of thousands, like 30-50 THOUSAND. Maybe it was more. There's been some minor repairs, a shell stop shot loose, a ring for one of the trigger group pins got broke (he thought he forced the pin in and pinched it) , but essentially it just chugged along. Neither of the above probs forced him out of a shoot.

I was stunned.

The 870 is a common LE gun. I would think there would be some interesting numbers out of the various academy's as well.

rc
January 25, 2010, 12:09 AM
BPS is probably the strongest and best designed of the guns mentioned. Let me explail my reasons.

Browning is all steel though it does have some stamped parts unlike the Ithaca 37 on which it is loosely based. The quality of the gun, grade of steel and fit and finish overall are excellent.

My second choice would be a mossberg because the design is excellent but the ejector is a bit delicate and the plastic safety is notoriously prone to breakage on newer models unless you get a military version.

Remington 870 would be next. It is a proven time tested design like the mossberg but the trigger group and disassembly is not as easy as the mossberg. The carrier mechanism can trap a shell under the bolt if you don't feed it all the way into the mag tube.


Winchester 1300 rotating bolt seems overly complicated and therefore prone to breakage.

Lastly the Benelli is designed from the ground up as a cheap entry level mostly plastic pump. It's a relatively untested design and I would not trust it to be completely impervious to U.V. damage and solvents long term. It would be my last choice of shotgun. Sorry if I offended the Nova guys but leave it in gas a few days and get back to me on chemical resistance. rc

rickdavis81
January 25, 2010, 04:53 AM
870, why even ask.

highvel
January 25, 2010, 05:12 AM
My 870 is over twenty years old and has never let me down. From Deer,Turkeys,Skeet and Clays it has always done it's job!!!!!
From 30" full choke barrel to 26" choke tube barrel to rifled slug barrel it just feels sooooo good.:D

darkgael
January 25, 2010, 06:41 AM
About the Nova:
leave it in gas a few days

I appreciate the concern about the long term viability of the Nova, which doesn't have the history of the 870. That gas comment, though, strikes me as unreasonable. Who leaves their gun in "gas", whether it be a Nova or an 870? I'm supposing that if I were to take a steel and wood gun and drop it in gas for "a few days" it would be damaged no matter the brand.
I am curious, though, to learn more about the material used for the stock of the Nova. There are plastics and then there are plastics; some of the formulations will hold up to about anything - and better than wood. Not as pretty, though.
Pete

TomF1938
January 25, 2010, 09:19 AM
REMINGTON 870 HANDS DOWN!!!

I've seen Mossberg 500's fail in the field but have never seen an 870 go wrong. The closest I've ever had to a failure on an 870 was when a friend inadvertently put in a round backwards into the magazine and then couldn't get it out without field stripping the gun - but you can't blame the shot gun for that.

I have two brothers that both owned 500's and they were both problematic. This was back in the seventies and maybe Mossberg has improved the newer ones.

TomF

TomF1938
January 25, 2010, 09:29 AM
I have to add to my last post that the 870 I've owned for the past 40 years is the Wingmaster. I guess that, like all the other gun makers, Remington has probable cheapened the newer models with sub par materials and manufacturing shortcuts.

TomF

jmortimer
January 25, 2010, 09:45 AM
The 870 Wingmaster is a great gun. The current production 870 Express shows a lack of pride. The primary problem is failure to eject and jamming.

jmortimer
January 25, 2010, 09:50 AM
The 870 Wingmaster is a great gun. The current production 870 Express shows a lack of pride. The primary problem is failure to eject and jamming. Out of current production I would expect the Mossberg 500 to last the longest.

batmann
January 25, 2010, 12:44 PM
Well said about the Browning BPS rc, they echo my thoughts exactly. I have two BPS, an older one with beautiful wood and engraving and a newer one with the extended mag and composite stock that I keep for HD and I'm not sure I could wear one out or break one. The action is solid and I have put many, many rounds through the older one and it has been used for every thing from Sporting Clays to Duck blind and I'm not sure I even have it broke in yet!

NightSleeper
January 25, 2010, 01:18 PM
No idea ...

Maromero
January 25, 2010, 02:11 PM
The one that's best taken care of.

LukeA
January 25, 2010, 03:03 PM
I think the results of this poll are the same as if the question was "What is your favorite pump shotgun?"

Polls of similar effectiveness to this one:
What is the longest-lasting butterknife?
What is the longest-lasting brick?
Will the wires in my walls ever wear out?

It doesn't matter. Properly maintained, any of those things will last at least hundreds of years.

darkgael
January 25, 2010, 06:41 PM
SuperDave: Well....did you get your answer yet or has the point been thoroughly missed?
In truth, the answer is unknowable. What is true for one shotgun - of any brand - might not be true of the next one on the rack. A part - an actual part, to use your words - could go on any gun pretty much at any time. If I could tell, I could probably bet horses a lot better too.
I'm curious as to what prompted the poll.
Pete

lambertsteeth
January 25, 2010, 07:35 PM
Has anyone ever heard of anyone wearing out a pump? I haven't.

rc
January 27, 2010, 07:16 PM
I know someone who had an ithaca 37 made in the late 40s that had the extractor wear out after decades of heavy use. Nothing broke, but the shells would no longer get extracted because the chisel edge wore down. This could happen on any gun after time. A new extractor got it running again. That's why I have such an appreciation of the BPS design based on the ithaca. The Remington trigger group is more complicated in my opionion than necissary and if it was superior to other guns, the military would not have purchased the Mossberg 590 which is a slightly upgraded 500 that puts a steel safety and I believe a mettle trigger group on the same basic 500 design. The 590 was not chosen over a BPS because of strength, but because the ejection port allows rounds to be switched in combat more easily. I'm sure the overall weight savings and price were also factors in picking the 590. Now we see the semi auto benelli coming into use, but the pistol grip model 500 is still popular for door breeching rather than combat. rc

David Turley
February 28, 2010, 06:37 AM
I suppose you would have to give the nod to the remington because its been around so long. But i think the benelli is a better built shotgun and will prove its self as time goes on. I own both and no complaints with either of them.

GunsAreGood
February 28, 2010, 04:49 PM
870 all the way.

David Turley
February 28, 2010, 06:06 PM
just take apart a 870 and a nova pump then tell me which one looks to be better built sorry 870 fans the benelli is a better gun i own both and have taken them both apart and the benelli just looks to be better built not to mention its lighter than my 870 and holds a tighter pattern than my 870 although i know this will not change the minds of the die hard 870 fans

Dave McC
February 28, 2010, 09:49 PM
David, check back with me in 50 years. That's how long I've tried to wear out 870s. My oldest, mine since 1959 and well used, is just getting nice and slick.

Nothing against the Benelli, but it has some big shoes to fill.....

GunsAreGood
March 1, 2010, 04:51 AM
your right your not changing any die hard 870 fans minds. mine included. you might open some minds up to Benelli though. I have been thinking about getting one but don't know which model yet.

Blue Grass
March 1, 2010, 08:12 AM
My Model-37 was made in 1940. All the blue is worn off the gun. I've shot cases of ammo thru it and it's still as tight and reliable as ever. Truth be told, few of us would ever wear out any of the guns listed in the poll in several of our shooting life times. Just pick what you like and enjoy.

Singlesix1954
March 1, 2010, 10:06 AM
I love pumps. I started out a 12 ga 97. I later got my own 870 lw wingmaster 3" 20 ga. It was like getting out of a stock 57 chevy pickup into a new cadi.
I still have every shotgun I ever bought but when I want to shoot well I go get the "Ugly Gun" My Benelii Nova.I don't know how many shells have been through it but it has never let me down. Waterfowel,Upland,Trap,Skeet,5 stand, and sporting clays. It just eats whatever shells I feed it and keeps on going. I do like pretty guns but this thing is a tool and I don't think I will ever wear it out. It was the first one I ever saw. I thought it was a joke...till I shoulderd it. That afternoon I broke 25 out of 25 with the first box of shells to go Through it. It has done everything I'v asked of it so I have to vote in favor of the NOVA.

jmr40
March 1, 2010, 10:13 AM
Better put that Nova on some scales and actually weigh it. I think the Nova may prove to be a more durable gun, but until it has been around long enough we will have to wait and see. The Nova is a fine gun, but they are the heaviest of the common pump actions.

FreakGasolineFight
March 1, 2010, 10:19 AM
sorry 870 fans the benelli is a better gun i own both and have taken them both apart and the benelli just looks to be better built

Well, durn. That put an end to all discussion right there. I suppose none of us 870 owners can argue with your ability to eyeball build quality or even your dazzling grasp of English grammar.

I love my 870. It was the first gun I ever purchased. Bought it the day after I turned 18. It has always been flawless, every shot, all the time. Don't know how many shells have gone through her but I would estimate at least a thousand or twelve hundred.

hogdogs
March 1, 2010, 10:20 AM
While I think this thread has proven several things... I just thought of something...

We can all agree that any of the options will last a very long time with proper maint.

The 870 has components that cannot be removed routinely each time the gun is stripped and cleaned and these have a finite limit on how many times they can be repaired before the gun will need to be de-commissioned from service...


If I wear the aluminum receiver grooves excessively on my mossberg, I can simply peen down some beer can aluminum and and epoxy them into place effectively shimming the gun back to factory specs...

If I can shim up the kingpins on my mother's old Rambler Ambassador numerous times with beer cans and aluminum shower curtain rod to factory specs, I bet this monkey wrench simple gun be too...:D
I got my Masters Degree in Redneck Engineerin' from the University of Hard Knocks:eek:
Brent

GunsAreGood
March 1, 2010, 05:44 PM
[QUOTE]The 870 has components that cannot be removed routinely each time the gun is stripped and cleaned/QUOTE]

Just wondering what components you are referencing.

GunsAreGood
March 1, 2010, 05:46 PM
Why is my quote not working right.

hogdogs
March 1, 2010, 05:56 PM
quote is missing the "[" in front of second "[/quote]...
I don't know the name remington uses but there is a sprung little bar that is installed over a nub that is peened to hold it... On a mossberg this part is screwed down with a screw... In the mossberg it is the ejector... (part number 25 in this diagram...
http://www.tiropratico.com/esplosi/mossberg500.jpg
It magnifies with a click.
Brent

Slopemeno
March 1, 2010, 06:54 PM
The ejector doesn't REALLY need to be removed. It's reasonably easy to replace, though I'll admit the Mossbergs is easier (I own both).

The shop I worked for did a yearly certify-for-duty on about 120 870's. I think we replaced one ejector in the four years I was there, which is pretty good reliability. Broken stocks and dented mag tubes were more common.

hogdogs
March 1, 2010, 07:00 PM
slope, I agree it shouldn't need removed, I never pull mine from my 500... but should it ever need be removed due to extensive debris (severe duty conditions) or damage it has a finite number of times it can be restaked.
Brent

Leif
March 3, 2010, 08:42 AM
Browning BPS - built like a tank.

jrothWA
March 3, 2010, 10:22 AM
my 1927 Win 97 & 1954 Ithaca M37 are hard to beat.

Just upgrade with a 1970 A5 Mag.

Tenshi
March 3, 2010, 10:31 AM
I'm not much for the mossberg 500s, but I'd take a 590-A1 over an 870 any day.

ww2freak27
March 4, 2010, 10:14 PM
I have a Winchester 1300. What a great gun! I have never had a malfunction and I tend to be a very accurate shot with it:D I don't see the ol' 1300 malfunctioning anytime in the future as long as I do my part and clean it everytime I shoot it. That won't be hard. I actually like to clean my guns:) Hope to see you guys at the shooting range or in the field, but until then, see ya later;)

XD Gunner
March 4, 2010, 11:41 PM
Remington 870 Wingmaster.

My Father just gave my Brother his old one. This is its 3rd owner, and it has had 10's of thousands of rounds through it. It's old, it rattles, it's scuffed, scratched, rusted, and beaten, but it has not broken, ever. It has not one single time, since my Father had bought it, failed to feed, fire, or eject. I've watched my Father take hundreds of squirrels with it, and I have taken many with it, just as many rabbits, and several pest animals in it's lifetime. I have one exactly like it, and I will pass this gun to my children. My Grandfather still shoots with his 870, that has never malfunctioned since my Grandmother gave it to him in the 1950s.

just take apart a 870 and a nova pump then tell me which one looks to be better built sorry 870 fans the benelli is a better gun i own both and have taken them both apart and the benelli just looks to be better built

My grandfathers 50+ year old 870 will shoot circles around that ugly Italian hunk of plastic, be smoother while it's doing it, and then sit in a closet for 10 years without so much as being wiped down, only to do it again when needed. I'm not basing my claims on the way something "looks" but by how it has performed. There are pump shotguns, and then there is the Remington 870.

There is a reason why over 50% of the poll suggests the 870.

mathman
March 5, 2010, 12:32 AM
There is a reason why over 50% of the poll suggests the 870.

Yes...it is because that is what more people own. These threads aren't very good at answering any questions.

XD Gunner
March 5, 2010, 12:39 AM
Yes...it is because that is what more people own. These threads aren't very good at answering any questions.

I reject your reality and substitute my own!

biohazurd
March 5, 2010, 12:59 AM
Well ive only had my 590 A1 and my 590 for a couple of years so the longetivaty of the guns are still in question. But they are great shooters, extremely well built and im quite certain if I take care of them ill take them to my grave with me in working order. On the other hand My Winchester 1200 12 guage was bought brand new by my grandfather as a gift for my father in 1976. my dad put about 400 rounds through it he estimates before it was handed down to me. Since i got it i have put over 2,200 rounds of bird shot and it runs as smooth as it did the first time i shot it when i was 12

mathman
March 5, 2010, 03:07 AM
I reject your reality and substitute my own!

Right...that's kind of what I thought you'd say. :rolleyes:

TheNatureBoy
March 5, 2010, 05:56 AM
Mossberg 500 pump. Talk about a work horse.

skydiver3346
March 5, 2010, 07:50 AM
:) Older model Remington 870 Wingmasters are the best in my opinion. Got two of them that I have had forever. Have shot untold shells through both without any problems (and they still function perfectly). Hard to beat an 870.

mathman
March 5, 2010, 10:20 AM
Yes...the older Wingmasters are fine shotguns indeed. The newer 870s with all their cheaper MIM and plastic parts will probably not prove to be as good as the older Wingmasters in the long run. 870s are a very bitter subject for me. It really is a shame when a company has a really good thing going and then decides to screw it all up in the name of a little more profit.

spotter123654
March 5, 2010, 10:23 AM
ithaca 37

XD Gunner
March 5, 2010, 10:35 AM
Right...that's kind of what I thought you'd say.:rolleyes:

Don't be a dick. There is also a reason why so many people own the 870, one has to do with availability, but even now, when Benelli's, Beretta's, Brownings, Winchesters, and all of the "off-brands' are so prevalent and affordable, 870's are still being sold in the droves, I see 870's being turned over 3 and 4 times a week at the local toy stores, while the other brands sit for weeks at a time. Why? There are many reasons to that why, but I'm sure that reliability, functionality, smoothness, and point-ability are some of them.

mathman
March 5, 2010, 11:06 AM
Don't be a dick.

Watch your mouth. You wouldn't say that to me if we were face to face, so don't say it on the internet...punk.

Why do idiots like you always take this so personal?

oletymer
March 5, 2010, 11:17 AM
Mathman is right. The majority of the 870 being sold are Express models, not Wingmasters. Remington is dooming a once great gun to satisfy people that can't tell the difference.

XD Gunner
March 5, 2010, 01:33 PM
Watch your mouth. You wouldn't say that to me if we were face to face, so don't say it on the internet...punk.

Really? You think I wouldn't? Your 100% wrong. You know me? You going to beat me up if I say "you're a dick" to you in person?

Why do idiots like you always take this so personal?

So, you tell me to watch my mouth, then call me a punk and an idiot? Would you say those things in person? Who is taking things personal? How about YOU step away from the keyboard warrior mentality for a minute and listen.

I didn't take anything personal, at all, until YOU started smarting off. Now, I threw in a line from "MythBusters" one that Adam Savage uses, to make light of the situation, because I saw where it could possibly go, but you made your little remark, and I responded in kind. You want to make more of this, and continue this internet *peeing* contest? Continue to tell me what I would and would not do, and call me names after you told me not too. If not, I agree we disagree and that's the end of it. Heck, I may have been the one to initially misunderstand, I don't feel that way, but no ones perfect.

Mathman is right. The majority of the 870 being sold are Express models, not Wingmasters. Remington is dooming a once great gun to satisfy people that can't tell the difference.

Probably, but then again, I don't know of any gun I feel is made better now, than it was 50 years ago. If your price range includes Brownings, Supernova's and Winchester 1300's, your not going to be looking at the Express model. I'm not being a brand "fanboy", I just know that there are 870's that have been around since the fifties that have never had a malfunction. They are tanks, and those same guns will be going strong 50 more years from now.

mathman
March 5, 2010, 02:46 PM
XDGunner,

It's not smarting off when you say things that are true. I didn't personally attack you...just stated something about shotguns that you don't agree with.

Get a grip...that's it from me...out.

Leif
March 5, 2010, 03:13 PM
There is a reason why over 50% of the poll suggests the 870.

That may also have something to do with all the tacticool crap that people want to hang on their shotguns, which is far more available for 870s than other brands.

Market share is a weird thing, but it rarely boils down to a single factor like reliability.

Leif
March 5, 2010, 03:15 PM
Yes...the older Wingmasters are fine shotguns indeed. The newer 870s with all their cheaper MIM and plastic parts will probably not prove to be as good as the older Wingmasters in the long run. 870s are a very bitter subject for me. It really is a shame when a company has a really good thing going and then decides to screw it all up in the name of a little more profit.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with this statement - I agree wholeheartedly.

Buzzard Bait
March 5, 2010, 03:19 PM
I would think with normal use and proper care any of those shot guns would last several generations so are talking about if your grand kids wear it out or your great grand kids?
BB