View Full Version : My First RIFLE Mosin Nagant PU sniper 1943 Izhevsk LOT OF PICS!
January 11, 2010, 08:18 AM
First of all; It good to be a member of this forum. I have allways been interested in arms of any kind (especially firearms) and the past 2 years have been a member of a local firearms club. there's a lot of knowledge and experience here which I have learned a lot from.
I bought my first rifle a few months ago when I finaly got my licence (here in Holland it takes at least 1,5 years from joining a range and club before you can buy a firearm). the rifle shoots great, the rifling is very strong, and the rifle is very forgiving.
The corrosive ammo (Chech 67 silvertip steelcore, berdan primed) can be a pain in the butt to clean, but I've gotten pretty handy with copper brush and Ballistol :P
Its a 1943 Izhevsk PU sniper. the first time I went to the range with my new rifle (after getting the scope zeroed and the barrel warmed up), even though it was winter and raining wet snow , I shot a 2 MOA group with the Chech surplus, it made my day.
(my feet were soaking wet and I had no feeling in my fingers left :p)
I suspect it was first an ordinary infantry rifle that was build up with a mount and scope, and it has been re-crowned as well, but it shoots great.
Right now I have more of a chin weld than a cheek weld, but I plan on putting something on it, any tips?, I heard an Eagle Cheek pad works well.
I see now that I can only upload three pictures at a time, so more will follow!
Enjoy the pics and HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!, Louis
January 11, 2010, 08:19 AM
Here are some more pics, enjoy
January 11, 2010, 08:21 AM
and some more :)
January 11, 2010, 08:24 AM
and the last ones :P
Does anyone else here have a mosin nagant? (any type, year, arsenal or shape)
Let's them If you have em :)
January 11, 2010, 08:49 AM
I find that corrosive ammo is not that much harder to clean after than regular, only that you have to use a water-based cleaner (or water) at some point to dissolve the salts - normal solvents won't work.
I was given an M91/38 a few years back, and that started my whole military surplus collection. Without really trying I've wound up with three Mosins - the afore-mentioned 91/38 and two run-of-the-mill 91/30s.
January 11, 2010, 11:10 AM
Nice pictures and nice rifles.
I used to run hot water thru the barrel and on the bolt and keep doing that for about 30 minutes (than clean regularly). First I used Break-free, but now I use Balistol, I spray it in the barrel and bolt and let it stand for 30 minutes, than I just use patches and the copper brush to clean it as usual, works excelent!
Balistol is probably not very well know outside of Europe (never heard of anyone here using it), but it desolves, cleans, oils, lubricates, and even protects the wood and leather :) (it even desinfacts, you can even use it on furr)
I doesn't have an ingredient list, but the charactaristics seem to be a combination of WD40, Hoppes nr9, vaseline and regular fine gun oil.
btw: you seem to have done a lot of work on the bottom mosin, I am thinking of bedding mine, have you bedded that one?
January 12, 2010, 12:49 AM
I'm a clean freak, so this may be more work than it needs to be, but I fill a Windex bottle with 50% water, 50% Windex, and a little ammonia. When all the windex is gone, I just use ammonia, it's much less in cost. Plug bore and spray down the bolt, interior of receiver, and chamber, as well as the barrel. Let sit for a bit, then clean with patches and Q-tips, then run brush through the barrel about 15 times, then patches, repeat brush, then patches until squeaky clean. Lightly oil all surfaces and put in storage. This is all done immediately upon getting home from the range or field. In the field, spray with some of the same solution and let it sit on the drive home, then clean it at home. Do not let the rifle sit even for a day.
That's for old corrosive, or suspected corrosive, ammunition. Generally, I've stopped using surplus except for 8mm, though. The rifles may be inexpensive, but they cost too much to take the risk of corrosion.
Got 2 M44s, both nice clean Izhevsk pieces, a Tula M38, and 3 M91/30s, all nice rifles. One of the M91's is all matching, the others are force-matched. The carbines are all matching. I'll get more M44s, I think they are going to be good collectibles and appreciate like the RC Mausers.
January 12, 2010, 03:18 AM
I use Balistol...it was good enough for the German Army in two wars, and could be used as an antiseptic as well (they thought of everything)
I have had a total of 4 Mosins, and still have two....A East German issued M44 carbine, and a 91/30 sniper like yours.
January 12, 2010, 05:38 AM
I think It would be better to name the things Balistol can't do :P
I love the colours on the stock, it's almost like a natural camo. and a nice background too, it seems that rifles just love to play outdoors on pictures :) a gun in the snow or woods makes for a beautiful picture.
How does she shoot? I get around 2 MOA if I do my part, but I've one been able to shoot it twice. It looks like an original one, I hope it isn't bubba'd in any way. mine was originally an infantry rifle that was converted at some point to a sniper-model, but I didn't know that when I bought it. I was looking for a shooter anyway:), yours seems completely authentic though.
Can you post more pics please :) especialy of any stamps on the barrel/receiver asembly, I have a hard time identifying mine.
btw: how can I get to show pictures directly in the post like yours and not as an attachment, I can't find the clue for that.
January 12, 2010, 10:15 AM
btw: you seem to have done a lot of work on the bottom mosin, I am thinking of bedding mine, have you bedded that one?
No, I just removed the old shellac and re-stained it and sealed it with a satin poly-urethane finish. I bead blasted the metal parts and re-blued them with a commercial hot-bluing system. The pictures are from last summer - I've since removed the slip-on pad and replaced it with one that replaces the original metal butt plate.
January 15, 2010, 12:27 AM
Nice rifle and great pics! Welcome to The Firing Line. :)
And thanks for the tip on Ballistol. I had heard of it but I had NO idea that the stuff was not a petro chemical and neutralizes corrosive salts from corrosive ammo. This is really great!
January 15, 2010, 06:31 AM
I was a bit sceptical at first too, but it seems to do every job of claining and maintaining a firearm just fine, no different stuff for corrosive ammo needed :cool: makes cleaning corrosive ammo no different than regular ammo :)
How common is Balistol in the US? I've heard almost nothing of it on overseas forums, here in Europe everyone has been using it for decades. can you buy it anywhere there?
(First Break-Free was more common here because the military used it for some time, but thats long gone. )
Im interested how you clean any firearm, theres always something to learn.
take care, Louis
January 15, 2010, 10:06 PM
How common is Balistol in the US? I've heard almost nothing of it on overseas forums, here in Europe everyone has been using it for decades. Can you buy it anywhere there?
I honestly have no clue where I'd find it locally but I'm going to look for it.
It's easy to get by mail off of the internet, however, (Amazon, Midway, etc. etc.) so I've already ordered some. Really looking forward to trying it!
Hey I looked at a rifle like yours in one of my local sporting goods stores in Tucson today. Unfortunately they bugger 'em up over here with some really ugly electro-pencil importer markings on the receiver (U.S. import laws). That said I really liked it and were they not asking $500 for it (seems a bit steep to me) I'd have gotten one just to join the Mosin crowd. :)
I'll be keeping my eyes peeled!
January 16, 2010, 06:02 AM
It will work fine, I've never regreated it!
how much did you pay for it in the end btw? for a rifle like mine costing around 450,- in the US seems good (If it would be an original sniper 700-800 would be good)
How I do my cleaning(with corrosive surplus ammo):
I put PLENTY of soft paper (and something under it, like newspaper) on the ground and put the rifle muzzle down on the paper (be careful not to damage the muzzle) then I spray plenty of balistol down the barrel, in the receiver, and on the bolt face. I let it soak for 30-60 minutes. then I clean as normal with the copper brush, patches and balistol untill the patches come out clean
I Usually push the copper brush (again with some balistol on it) about 6 times thru the barrel and then about 2 patches. I have to repeat that process around 4 times before the patches come out allmost clean. but it was a whole lot more when I cleaned it the first time. :P
I wouldn't use Break-Free btw. It doesn't work nearly as good.
but living in the USA you do have an advatage over Europe as for choise, other time proven recipies like Hoppes nr.9 are very dificult to find out her (except for ordering it of course like you :))
well, Have fun with your new rifle!
and good luck with the cleaning (let me know if you have any trouble cleaning, I'll be happy to help, surplus firearms can be a pain in the but to clean sometimes)
let us know how she shoots! and if you have any pics, please show em :)
January 17, 2010, 01:00 AM
An original sniper would be nice to see, so far I've seen only the $100 Mosin-Nagant rifles with $129 in mount and repro scope attached, with electric pencil numbering all over the things, for $450 and $500...looks like the Bolsheviks know what capitalism is all about.
January 17, 2010, 11:13 PM
Nice weapon ! It"s young folks like you that give me hope for our future. Your patience is to be honored. Thanks for the info on BALISTOL to clean these wonders with. Good luck! And great pic's.
January 18, 2010, 12:13 PM
Im young (20 years old) so there is still a lot for me to learn.
In Holland there is still pretty much a tabboo on shooting, most don't really see it as a sport. If you say you shoot (even when emphasizing its at paper targets) people often react by thinking your aggresive and violent :(.
Very strange considiring the fact that shooting is (one of) the safest sport here because of all the rules, regulations and random police checks. In 40 years there hasn't been a serious accident at my shooting club.
The government doesn't maintain any shooting ranges (except military) so clubs are on their own to create oppertunities.
all this means there isn't a shooting-culture like in the US. there is hardly a handfull of people at my club that have some real knowledge and experience with things like handloading.
So Im very grateful there are forums like this where there is so much knowledge and experience about firearms, ammunition and everything that has to do with it. I have only recently become a member of this forum, but in the past years I've been intersted in firearms I've really learned a lot from everyone around here.
Thanks and take care, Louis
January 19, 2010, 02:16 AM
Interesting to hear about gun regulations and attitudes from other countries, some times I forget how much freedom we have hear in the U. S. We tend to take things for granted and do a lot of complaining about the few resrtictions we do have.
January 20, 2010, 12:54 AM
Still too many restrictions Ken!....yes it could be worse(maybe will soon) but that is a topic for a different thread in this forum!
Welcome here 30cal.fun, I just purchased my first C&R Mosin Nagant M38. What fun it is to clean the cosmoline!sarcasm
Then again at least it did help protect the gun for 60+yrs. My MN is a 1944r Izzy M38. Matching#s....soon to be fired!
January 20, 2010, 06:23 AM
Congrats on the rifle. I have a 91/30 I like very much except for the sights being regulated at about 300 meters! Concerning Ballistol, its relatively common here in the midwest and I use it when shooting corrosive ammo and black powder guns with zero problems. We call it moose milk because it looks like milk when mixed with water. Doesn't smell the same however and its wonderful stuff. If I were you I would continue to use the stuff, easily to use and it works. T
January 21, 2010, 11:44 AM
Interesting to see that balistol isn't as uncommon as I thought.
Tracerdee: I will never change to anything probably :) funny you call it moose-milk, never diluted it with water though. Why would you want mix it if I may ask?
Full Throttle: the cosmoline... I love it and hate it; It kept my rifle safe and clean for 66 years for me to shoot, but trying to dig out that mix of Olga's toenails and Ivans engine grease from under my trigger was a pain in the behind. :p
If you have any pictures of your m38 I would love to see it!
January 21, 2010, 08:37 PM
Great looking guns! Here's mine, I converted from the infantry rifle to a sniper. so far, it's minute of clay-pigeon at 100 yards.
Mine's a '43 Izzy as well.
January 22, 2010, 12:46 AM
Her's my Mosin after I converted it, great deer rifle!
January 22, 2010, 12:56 AM
30cal, I have no pics as of now but will soon for ya! Hopfully this weekend!
January 22, 2010, 09:50 AM
Hey Magnum Will, I bet she is a pleasure to shoot. what scope did you use? is it original or did you order a reproduction? seems original though.
"Her's my Mosin after I converted it, great deer rifle! "
Beatiful deer, the 7,62x54R has plenty of hunting power, right between the .308 and 8mm mauser. What kind of bullets do you use? isn't it hard to find good hunting bullets in this caliber?
Fullthrottle: take your time, I would love to see them.
BTW: I made a cheek pad that would solve my "chin weld", it works fine.
January 22, 2010, 05:42 PM
It's a repro scope (which is weird, it's dated 1942?) but that's fine, since it's a conversion anyway. I like the repro, since you don't need to center the reticle as much when you put it on.
I found a solution to the poor cheek weld - I use my left eye for the scope :D
They often compare the 54R to the .30-06, they generate the same pressure, supposedly.
January 22, 2010, 06:38 PM
I purchased a mil surplus Moisin sniper set-up last year but have not shot it yet. i have heard recoil is like getting kicked by 2 Russian mules! Any particular ammo out there (Rguns was selling some) better than others? thanks:D
January 22, 2010, 06:57 PM
well, if the left eye works... it works :p
the pressure indeed doesn't differ much. (7,62x54r is about 57.000psi and the 30.06 around 59.000psi) but the muzzle energy of the 7,62x54r is around 200 ft.lbs lower and gets around 2600 ft.lbs.
Still, I have shot both calibers often and I have to say that the 30.06 (in a Springfield 1903) kicks a lot more than the Mosin does.
Zahnzieh: If you have shot .308 and it didn't bother you much, then don't worry about the mosin, I found that the kick isn't much worse than the .308
As for recoil, to me it feels like its right between the .308 and the 8mm mauser, and a long shot away from the 30.06
I probably wouldn't know about ammo since I live in The Netherlands, and the choise is very limited here.
January 22, 2010, 07:43 PM
You're right, 30cal, all the .30-06's i've shot have a little more oomph to it.
zahnzieh, just shoot the hell out of it and you get used to it :) When I first shot my Mosins, i did 40 rounds and i had the nastiest bruise on my shoulder. Now that I know how to control it, we went shooting a few months ago and I put about 100 rounds through my Nagants and my shoulder was fine within the hour out of shooting.
January 23, 2010, 10:22 AM
Hey 30 cal; about diluting the Ballistol read the directions. It goes a lot futher and of course the water gets rid of all those salts. Believe also that once you open a bottle of the stuff it has a shelf life of about 2 years (or so they say). T
Edit: Sorry I made an assumption concerning how you were buying Ballistol, in a spray can it is probably already mixed!
January 25, 2010, 11:51 PM
30Cal Fun, here are the pics of my M38. I shot it yesterday for the first time. What a relief, it shot well for a 60 plus year old milsurp. At 35 yards( the longest indoor in my area, raining a lot around here) so outdoor distances are not real practical right now, was getting all five rounds within 3inches. I know with more practice and getting more familiar with this rifle I can do much better. I was using Wolf 148gr. ammo.
As far as the kick......I expected it to be worse!(Maybe paranoia!) The bark is worse than the bite...........by bark...I mean the LOUD BOOM and the FIRE BALL out of the muzzle! The kick, while not weak, was no worse than a 30-06.
January 26, 2010, 03:06 AM
I indeed have a spray can just like you edited Tracerdee. I don't know if it is already mixed, it doesn't look like it, it's a oil-like liquid, not milky. I never thought of mixing it because it already works so well, but your argument to mix it makes a lot of sense, since the water would more or less disolve the salts (it wouln't be warm though, maybe that would make it less effective). I'll probably stick with the undiluted balistol.
Thanks for the pictures Fullthrottle! We don't see any m38 around here (mostly 91/30). Everybody needs to "get acquainted" with the Mosin first, just shoot the hell out of it and it will definitely grow on you. the groups will get better then. It is because of the shorter barrel (than the 91/30) that the bark and kick is so loud, as for recoil, I can shoot mine for hours, It feels a long shot away from the 30.06.
Try to get the opportunity to shoot it at night once! that will make for a BLAST! :D
January 26, 2010, 10:10 PM
I picked up the last M38 in about 80 miles from my house, it took a bit of telephone work to find the thing on a shelf. Next day I was there to purchase it.
After shooting it, I am now glad I have it. I put about 30rds down range and was happy enough. Now I can't wait to get to shoot it outdoors and get more acustom to it and the iron sights! I do know it scared the hell out of a few folks in the range(part of the fun is them jumping).:D
Oh, and night time shooting has got to be fun!
January 28, 2010, 02:38 AM
30Cal fun: Goede Avond.
People might not realize it these days, but many of the US/Canadian troops (not only the Band of Brothers), who were so successful in the infantry-not just in WW2-were already experienced hunters, plinkers etc.
How would people react if you tell them about this simple fact?
I've enjoyed a few visits to your 'mooi' country with 'mijn vrouwe': AMS, Haarlem (Groote Kerk concert), Appeldorn, Maastricht, Leiden (long ride on sand dunes fietspad-fun).
Visit Memphis, and I'll let you shoot lots of my SKS, Lee-Enfield, Yugo Mauser ammo into plastic jugs, bricks on a river bank (cars drive by 20 meters away, hear the sounds from the trees, and do not care). Maybe a cottonmouth 'slang'. Am not kidding about this.
Slap lekker, tot ziens.
January 28, 2010, 06:32 AM
Ignition Override: goede morgen (good morning)!
Dank U wel (thank you very much), for the offer.
I am a full time student now (physiotherapy), so it will be a long time before I can even think of visiting the USA, but I will definitely keep it in mind!
I know EXACTLY what you mean about the soldiers, most had prior experience in target shooting, hunting, and competitions and where already experienced marksman before the war. when the war started, there was a necessity for that kid of marksmanship regardless of it's origin. I am allways interested in history, because there is so much to learn from. everything from World War 2 to modern day wars. most people here don't go that far in marksmanship-history. another well known example is Carlos Hathcock, he was already a champion target shooter before he joined the USMC Scout-Snipers.
I live in Arnhem, the city that was pretty much the center point of Operation Market Garden. So to most veterans it may sounds familiar. we always welcome a lot of US and Canadian veterans in Arnhem at the annual commemoration for those who fell in Operation Market Garden
I have a lot of respect for the soldiers that were wounded or died for the freedom of my country and others, especially in World War 2. and even though our leaders may not always make the right decision, I still have a lot of respect and admiration for the people who are putting there lives on the line for the safety of you and me.
I don't think there is any greater love and sacrifice for life, your family, friends and brothers-in-arms than to lay down your life for them.
If you or anyone else is coming to The Netherlands, let me know. my house is small, but you are always welcome, and there will probably be an occasion to shoot as well.
The best to everyone, take care, Louis
January 30, 2010, 09:22 PM
30cal: I loaded with Speer 150 GR spitzer sp .311 cal. have since gone to Sierra 180 GR Pro-Hunter, like the Sierras better and use them in my Mosin and my Arisaka 99 , Same bullet, .311 for both so things stay about the same for both rifles. The Jap 7.7 definantly likes the heavier round better.
February 3, 2010, 12:52 PM
My Mosin sniper was purchased from Interordnance. After slugging the bore and experimenting with different loads, the rifle will shoot clover leaf patterns at 100 yards. I've done a 2 inch three shot group at 300 yards. Amazing for such an old rifle. I never expected this performance. It's got to be one of the most accurate rifles I own.
My best load is 50gr of AA4350, 150gr Hornady SP @ .312 diameter. 2.900 OAL, Lee factory crimp, Winchester large rifle primer, Prvi brass. I only neck size.
Enjoy your new toy...well worth the money.
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