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glassguy
January 10, 2010, 08:25 PM
I have this flintlock pistol marked G Goodwin & Co on the left side and London on the right side. Each side has the print surrounded with an oval. The barrels and body are brass or bronze, the lock and trigger are steel (iron?). I can't find out anything about this anywhere. Does anyone have any feedback? I would sure like to know more about it, its worth etc. It belonged to my grandfather but I have no idea where he got it. I inherited it from my father. Thanks in advance, Steve B

http://i855.photobucket.com/albums/ab111/glassman952/IMG_2815.jpg

http://i855.photobucket.com/albums/ab111/glassman952/IMG_2816.jpg

hickstick_10
January 10, 2010, 08:41 PM
HAHAHA nice

Its an old tap action box lock, you loaded each barrel and then primed the pan, one shot, then prime the pan again, turn the tap, for another shot (unless is has a sliding pan cover then you just turned the tap)

Very cool

Obviously if its an original its old (think hundreds of years old), might wanna get it appraised. and check gunbroker

First and foremost look for proof marks (stamps) on the barrels if there is any. Someone somewhere posted a website with a bunch of old proofmarks on there so use the search function for this site and type in proof marks if you have some on there, for example an arrow may mean its a british pistol ect...

Those more knowledgable then me should be able to help you

http://www.henrykrank.com/flintlock_pistols.html check it out

edited to add: whatever that brass sheeting is on the grip, no gunsmith put that on

glassguy
January 11, 2010, 06:30 PM
Hickstick. There is a stamp symbol, applied twice between the barrel and the trigger guard. The stamp appears to be a crown with crossed kind of a spade shape beneath the crown. Yeah, I think that if you set the selector in the proper way, you could selective fire the top barrel first then the bottom one or fire both at the same time. I believe that you are correct about the brass on the grip. I think that the wood and the brass strap are probably not original. Thanks for the link and the response, Steve B

Edit: a google search for tap action box lock brings up some pictures that are remarkably similar, circa 1780. This pistol appears to be missing some kind of lever that is behind the hammer on top of the grip. A safety maybe?

hickstick_10
January 11, 2010, 07:28 PM
if you dont have a half cock notch on that pistol then your correct, it was a bar or lever that was operated by the thumb that disengaged a notch behind and below the bottom jaw.

Don't discount the wood, as the fitting looks good, plus alot of those pocket pistols had that squared away shape.

FWIW I doubt its a miltary pistol for obvious reasons.

glassguy
January 11, 2010, 08:17 PM
After checking out other examples of this type of heater, I believe that the wood could be original after all.

glassguy
January 12, 2010, 07:22 PM
HickStick, do you have any idea where I might find out more about G Goodwin & co? I emailed Henry Krank and they responded that they wouldn't do anything without handling the gun. They apparently are in the UK. I am in Florida. Their recommendation was to find an appraiser. Thanks for any help. Steve B

hickstick_10
January 12, 2010, 08:15 PM
id agree with them, find a antique firearms appraiser. Or google firearms proof marks, and start from there, also check out government proof house markings from european countries. Other then that, theres not much I can tell you, others here know WAY MORE about flintlocks so im sure theyl chime in.

You may get lucky and a gunsmith might recognize the old proof markings, you could gve that a try. Also try to get in touch with historical sites and museums (like williamsburg ect) and they may have knowledgeable people who can help.

Unless its some fluke, keep in mind you probably wont get rich off that gun if you sell it. I could be wrong obviously but the auntique roadshow has instilled into so many peoples mind that they own a 50000 dollar antique. It keeps appraisers in business i suppose.

Easiest thing you could do is put it gently back in the box it came from, to hand down to your son

glassguy
January 13, 2010, 07:37 PM
HickStick I know that I probably could finance a decent vacation on this thing as long as I don't leave the county. Honestly I am not really that interested in selling it. I am really curious of its history. My sister told me yesterday that she thinks this is one of a pair and that my Calif. cousin has the other one. He may know more than me but will not communicate with me. I'll try the NRA museum in DC. Thanks for your input

glassguy
January 14, 2010, 07:49 PM
This is the response I got from the National Firearms Museum...


Thank you for your inquiry to the National Firearms Museum.

There was no G. Goodwin & Company doing business in London - actually that trade name was registered to a firm in Birmingham that imported material from Belgium. From the looks of your photographs, this pistol was a Belgian product marketed through Birmingham using "London" markings to somewhat mislead potential buyers. The upscale London name on guns could be counted on to be worth more than any Birmingham address.

Guns like this one were often traded overseas and the proofmarks you noted on the underside of the barrels follow that tradition.

The NRA arms database does not give any date for Goodwin's importation business.

National Firearms Museum

hickstick_10
January 14, 2010, 08:10 PM
Thats a shame. Still a cool gun.

You Might get to investigate further, but belgian gun parts is a moras of different companies building for elsewhere (like the man said).

Dont loose faith, the belgians made shotgun barrels for colt, and those rare guns. To bad he didnt give you an age of the peice.

glassguy
January 14, 2010, 08:41 PM
There goes my vacation!

hickstick_10
January 14, 2010, 09:14 PM
So it wont get you a vacation

But with 20 grains of FFFg on top of a patched round ball it would give ya one hell of an sunday afternoons entertainment.

Neruda
January 14, 2010, 10:49 PM
Searching the internet I came up with two references to firearms by G Goodwin.

The first is "A Pair of Brass Barrelled Flintlock Boxlock Pocket Pistols. 4cm turn off brass barrels, thumbpiece safety catches, frames engraved with stands of arms and signed 'G Goodwin & Co London', folding trigger, chequered bag-shaped wood butts," auctioned by Bonhams of London in 2006 (ref. http://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/a-pair-of-brass-barrelled-flintlock-boxlock-pocke-1-c-apzq94bq5b )

The second is "A Flintlock Powder Tester" which appeared in Garth's Auctions: October 31, 2009 Firearms Auction Catalog see: http://issuu.com/garthsauctionsinc/docs/garths_october2009firearms_catalog

As for the Birmingham connection, the Wrightson's Triennial Directory for 1818 lists "Rawlins, S & Co (Late G Goodwin & Co ), Gun Pistol & Flint Mfr, , Ann St", so by 1818 Goodwin was either dead or had sold the business to Rawlins. http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/WAR/Birmingham/bham1818-o.html

Although I hesitate to question the National Firearms Museum, I had always thought English guns were rather tightly controlled by guilds and the government - so was importing guns from Belgium into Birminghan and selling them as London-made really acceptable practice in the late 18th century?

glassguy
January 15, 2010, 07:17 PM
Hickstick, I can do without the vaca. As for shooting black powder, I believe I would buy a replica but...I really would like to fire this thing.

Neruda, thanks for the input and info. The genuki.org side opens up a whole 'nother can-o-worms.

hickstick_10
January 15, 2010, 07:33 PM
Although I hesitate to question the National Firearms Museum, I had always thought English guns were rather tightly controlled by guilds and the government - so was importing guns from Belgium into Birminghan and selling them as London-made really acceptable practice in the late 18th century?

Foreign guns were reproofed (regardless if the guns had proof marks already) at the british proof houses, maybe this is how they got the british stamp???

Millsman
January 26, 2010, 02:28 PM
George Goodwin (Goodwin & Co) was a gun and pistol maker at 2 Ann Street, Birmingham from 1807 to 1816. Guns marked "London" have been seen, no London address has been traced, he probably used an agent.
In 1816 he moved to 3 Haymarket; he closed in 1820.

George Goodwin was in partnership with Haywood as Haywood & Goodwin, gun flint manufacturers and suppliers to the Board of Ordnance, at 3 Ann Street from 1807 until 1817.

In 1817 the 3 Ann Street business was bought by S Rawlins & Co.


and


http://www.ambroseantiques.com/fpistols/goodwin.htm

glassguy
January 26, 2010, 08:02 PM
Thanks for the info. Where did you find it?