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View Full Version : XCR 6.8, Mini-14 6.8, RFB, M1A Scout?


amprecon
December 30, 2009, 11:36 PM
Alright here's another "which one" thread. I've pretty much had my heart set on a Robarms XCR in 6.8spc for awhile now, but as I took my scoped M1A out of the safe tonight to re-acquaint myself with it again, I had an "epiphany".
My reasons for even considering another rifle is to fill the proverbial one-rifle-do-it-all niche. I know, I know, one rifle can't do it all, but I say one rifle can do most of the things I want it to do or could imagine doing with it.
I had considered the M1A Scout before, but then I was pretty much duplicating my M1A Standard. Then the RFB came about and I was all about that rifle too, but as they haven't really flooded the market with them yet, they seemed expensive and hard to come by.

Now the XCR really only caught my attention because it was a piston-driven AR style rifle in 6.8spc, a caliber I've been intrigued with for some time. But as the caliber has not really taken off as much as I'd like and it's still rather pricey, it's hard to justify, not to mention I'd have to stock another caliber of ammunition that's much harder to come by than .308.
Then there is the Ruger Mini-14 in 6.8, I don't know what to think of this rifle, the accuracy of prior Mini's has always been so-so and hi-cap mags for 6.8 would be hard to come by, expensive and with questionable reliability.
Now there is no argument about the attributes of the .308 versus other assault/battle rifle calibers, it covers many niches and covers them well and there's not much doubt about it's authority.
So in an side-by-side comparison, it comes down to personal preference mostly, prices being pretty much the same amongst them across the board except for the Mini costing about half of what the others cost.

In the M1A, I'd not have to buy a different caliber and I already have ammo and magazines for it, the design is proven and there is notable support for it and it comes with it's own sights, which are arguably the best available. It weighs 9lbs empty, 18" barrel, it's over-all length is slightly over 40" and it's in a familiar platform.

In the RFB, I already have ammo for it but would have to get some FAL metric mags, no big deal. But it is a proprietary design and believe Kel-Tec is a bigger company with a more substantial support system in place than say Robarms. It has no sights, it weighs approx. 8.5lbs empty, I'd prefer the 24" barrel version, which would make the overall length 32" total and I have no bull-pup rifle experience at all.

The XCR is a whole different animal, I'd need all new mags, new (relatively expensive) ammo and limited bullet weights and applications. It too is a proprietary design and I may be mis-speaking, but don't believe they are a big enough company to provide the support necessary as I've heard they're having a hard enough time filling new rifle orders with a significant wait. It comes with no sights, an empty weight of a stated 7.5lbs, with the 16" barrel it gives an overall rifle length of just under 38".

Then there is the Ruger Mini in 6.8. I have heard Ruger has updated their design specs on it and it's much more accurate than it's older siblings, but again, it's in a caliber with limited application (compared to .308), ammo being relatively expensive, with limited bullet weights and applications. The Mini is in a familiar platform closely designed after the Garand and M1A rifles, but magazines would be of questionable reliability, accessibility and probably expensive. Also the Mini doesn't have the SPCII chamber and with 1:10 twist (which I believe doesn't allow for the hotter 6.8spc ammo(?) ). It too comes with it's own good sights, a stated weight 6.75lbs, an 18.5" barrel with an overall length of just 37.5".

So with the Mini not having the SPCII chamber, but extra barrel length of 18.5" what is the performance difference between using the "hotter" 6.8 in a SPCII chamber with a 16" barrel?

The RFB with 24" barrel would give you a longer barrel length than an M1A Standard but at only 32" overall length versus an M1A Scout rifle with an 18" barrel having an overall length of just over 40". It seems that the RFB would be the way to go, losing velocity with the Scout's short barrel and gaining velocity with the RFB but shorter overall length.

What draws me to the 6.8spc cartridge is that it's more powerful than .223 yet fits into the .223 platforms but with much less recoil than .308 rifles.

So help me out here, let me know which you would pursue and for which reasons.

zoomie
December 30, 2009, 11:45 PM
Why not an AR in 6.8? Just to be different? There are several manufacturers making ARs in 6.8 now. All but 3 parts would be ubiquitous AR-15 standard parts, and the mags are relatively easy to find, up to 30 rounders.

Also the Mini doesn't have the SPCII chamber and with 1:10 twist (which I believe doesn't allow for the hotter 6.8spc ammo(?) )
You're right, you couldn't shoot the hotter 6.8 loads, but you could still shoot most factory loads without worry. There are rumors of SAAMI changing the specs, which might eventually move all factory ammo hotter. If that happens, you might have a hard time finding 6.8 ammo that wouldn't give you pressure signs. But that's all theoretical and what-ifs, really.

So with the Mini not having the SPCII chamber, but extra barrel length of 18.5" what is the performance difference between using the "hotter" 6.8 in a SPCII chamber with a 16" barrel?
I think you'd still be better off with the bigger chamber and shorter barrel. Extra barrel length really doesn't do much for the 6.8.

So help me out here, let me know which you would pursue and for which reasons.
I never debated your exact choices, but I did choose an AR in 6.8 for my "step-up" over .223 and I've been very happy with it.

tjh
December 30, 2009, 11:51 PM
I think you should try the mini -14 in 6.8 mm . The 6.8 fourm has a reamer passing around to cut your chamber to the spec.II chamber . Been waiting on a 6.8 mini -14 for quite a while there hard to get acording to the gunshops around here .

amprecon
December 31, 2009, 12:02 AM
zoomie,
I considered the DPMS and RRA rifles in 6.8spc and think I'd prefer at least the mid-length as I've heard about gas impulse timing issues with the M4 length rifles. I'm not sure which would be the better choice, DPMS or RRA, but I just can't warm up to the direct impingement gas system.

zoomie
December 31, 2009, 12:11 AM
I agree you should stick with mid-length gas. I think DPMS or RRA, given equal chamber/twist specs, would be a wash.

If you want a piston 6.8, these guys got it:

http://www.adxtactical.com/store/pc/viewCategories.asp?idCategory=137
http://www.ar15performance.com/home
http://www.lwrci.com/c-11-.aspx

FishEngineer
December 31, 2009, 01:37 PM
I bought the Mini-14 in 6.8 and it performs about as well as you could expect accuracy wise - a bit less than 2" five shot groups at 100 yards with factory ammo. I suspect hand loads will improve this when I get around to it. Mine isn't really broken in yet - less than 500 rounds.

20 round aftermarket magazines are now available. I've been pleased with the rifle and had zero problems as would be expected. I've never understood the comparisons to the AR15 - to me they are totally different rifles and each serve a purpose. I'm a big fan of (and owner of) both platforms.

stubbicatt
January 1, 2010, 08:37 AM
I suspect that I am like 90% + of the contributors here in that I have no real use for any particular rifle or chambering, I just like to tinker around and learn how these things work. Heck, 223, 308, 6.5... any of these cartridges go "bang" and can be quite accurate, but other than varmint hunting I have no compelling use where I can say that one cartridges is better than another etc. The 223 is friendlier on pelts, and turns prairie dogs into pieces quite well...

I suspect that the OC too is curious and interested in learning something new. If so, I would recommend a platform completely different from what he already knows, as the pleasure of learning will be twofold: one for the new cartridge, the other for the new platform.

If you have a particular use where one of these cartridges is definitely the go to choice, then choose that cartridge. Personally I really enjoy the 308 and probably shoot that cartridge more than all the others I presently own.

Get what makes you happy!

smee78
January 1, 2010, 08:46 AM
What are you really looking for in an all around weapon? duribility, check----ammo,check-----familarity,check----M1A Scout. You already have a weapon that will do everything you will ever need on this earth, short of stopping a rino. You can defend your self,hunt and protect your property with it, what more do you need?

If not I'll buy it off of you for cheap!

amprecon
January 1, 2010, 01:34 PM
Hey Smee78,
How'd that scout mount work out for you? Good I hope.
I feel like the three bears when it comes to firearms.....too big, too small, too much, not enough.....I'm looking for that ahhh, just right! You know?

I think if the RFB were in 6.8spc I'd definitely be in a quandry. But in 6.8 a 16" barrel is mostly all you need to get the most out of the cartridge so your not really saving a whole lot of space. But I do like the idea of a home-bred bullpup on the market now. The .308 has way more power and uumph than I think is necessary for my criteria and I believe the 6.8 is that perfect intermediary round.

So when the day comes that I can afford to go out and buy that rifle, if the RFB is available in 6.8, it'll be a tough decision between it and the XCR in 6.8. But if not, I'm heavily leaning on the XCR as of right now and in the 6.8spc cartridge.

I'm not discounting my SLR-95, M1A rifle or Garand, they'll always fill a niche, the SLR-95 and M1A moreso than the Garand, and everytime I consider selling the Garand to fund this "new" rifle I just can't bring myself to do it. It'd be like giving up an arm or a leg.

DanThaMan
January 1, 2010, 02:33 PM
Why not get a barrel for one of your ARs with a 1:7 twist rate and increase the variety of 223 rounds you have to incorperate the larger rounds. Shot placement is key and I believe the 223 can be your do-it-all round in a do-it-all rifle (AR15)

amprecon
January 1, 2010, 05:35 PM
Oh, I don't own any AR's.

bcarver
January 1, 2010, 05:50 PM
No AR !!
I would get an AR and 6.8 piston upper.
then look at a .223 upper.