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import-ant
December 15, 2009, 02:13 PM
Sorry for the stupid question. I picked up an m1 garand that is chambered in 30'06 "government". Before I run out and grab just any fmj 30'06 ammo, does this rifle shoot only a certain kind of ammo? The "government" part throws me. Basically what ammo should I look for? Thank you!

horseman308
December 15, 2009, 02:41 PM
The Garand was developed shoot ammo that has a relatively specific pressure curve. Most of the commercially produced ammo is actually too powerful and will bend the operating rod if you use too much of it. The best stuff is military surplus stuff. It's got something like a 147 grain FMJ. I'm not sure what powder is in it or how much, but guys that reload often use IMR 4895 (I think) to duplicate the pressure curve. As long as you find ammo that operates in that range (someone else with more information will have to chime in here) then you'll be fine.

One really good alternative is to buy an adjustable gas plug, like Schuster's. You can find them at Midway and Brownells. They allow you to adjust the amount of "bleed off" so that you can reduce the pressure put on the operating system and shoot pretty much any ammo.

Slamfire
December 15, 2009, 02:53 PM
Your M1 is chambered in 30-06. One hundred years ago the 30-06 may have called the 30 Cal Government to differentiate it from the other 30 cal Government, the 30-40 Krag.

If you have not noticed, your M1 is a gas operated semi automatic mechanism. Gas mechanisms require ammunition that is tailored to the mechanism.

Of issue for the Garand is gas port pressure. This gas system is not self compensating. Pressures at the gas port that are too high will over accelerate the mechanism. You can have all sorts of issues like bent operating rods, operating rod dismounts, misfeeds, and there is this report of a receiver heel cracking.

This was an old receiver that cracked with Greek HP69. Greek ammo is a tad hot, and this receiver was old. But given that the bolt rebounds off the receiver heel, do you really want to use hot ammo in your rifle?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/M1a%20and%20Garand%20Receiver%20Pictures/GarandSAreceivercrackedusingHXP69.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/M1a%20and%20Garand%20Receiver%20Pictures/GarandSAreceivercrackedusingHXP692.jpg

The most appropriate ammunition would be US GI ammo, which is very hard to find. Federal claims to be making a 30-06 with a pressure curve appropriate for a Garand. Original 30-06 was actually quite mild compared to the factory loadings of today. If you fire GI ammo in your Garand, 150 ball will clock just under 2700 fps. Commercial stuff will clock 2900 fps.

In my opinion, the best is to reload. I have buds shooting 125 grain bullets for recoil reduction, most bullets tossed downrange are 150 to 175 grains.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/30M721732640fpsammocansideDSCN9365.jpg

Chris_B
December 15, 2009, 04:44 PM
Hi guys

For clarification, I want to point out that "30-06", "30-06 Government", "M1 ball" and "M2 ball" are not all the same ammo

import-ant, your M1 was not made to fire "30-06 Government". It was made to fire "M2 ball", a type of 30-06

Slamfire-

All M1 receivers are old ;) :D

was that HP69, or HXP69?

All HXP I have seen, bought (and fired) is from the CMP, packaged in spam cans for use with M1 rifles, in both 5 round tripper clips (I presume for BARs), and loaded in 8 round en blocs- so this was made for use with M1 rifles. My info is that HXP is Greek produced M2 ball. Can you expand on what you know about HXP?

Chris_B
December 15, 2009, 05:13 PM
edit:

don't want to hijack the thread

LukeA
December 15, 2009, 05:32 PM
There are also adjustable gas plugs that allow for manual compensation for high pressure ammunition, allowing the user to shoot basically any .30-06 round he wants with proper adjustment.

Chris_B
December 15, 2009, 05:43 PM
edit:

again, don't want to hijack

RT
December 15, 2009, 06:46 PM
Get one of these adjustable gas plugs from Brownells
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/sid=44955/pid=20456/sku/M1_Adjustable_Gas_System

dreamweaver
December 15, 2009, 06:51 PM
My info is that HXP is Greek produced M2 ball

yep, never had any problem with HXP. getting harder to come by, but CMP is supposed to be getting more.

import-ant
December 15, 2009, 06:54 PM
Sounds like I got a gun for the wall over the fireplace. Is there a way of telling whether this rifle has already gotten the adjustable gas plug?

Slamfire
December 15, 2009, 07:14 PM
was that HP69, or HXP69?

It was reported as HXP 69

Chris_B
December 15, 2009, 07:16 PM
It was reported as HXP 69

Thanks.

I am unaware of any problems using HXP. Can you elaborate at all?

horseman308
December 15, 2009, 07:19 PM
No, as long as your rifle has been checked out by a good gunsmith it's no wall-hanger. It'll shoot great, you just gotta get the right ammo. The gas plug is right underneath the muzzle. You might have one, but unless the person you bought it from specifically mentioned it, probably not.

I've also used Sellier & Bellot 180gr. FMJ. I had no problems with it and people that are really knowledgeable have assured me it's loaded to mil-spec so it shouldn't be a problem. Hornady is producing an M1 specific cartridge, though I think it's around $30 a box of 20. The best thing is to check out the CMP website. Sometime after the new year, they're supposed to be getting a new supply of bulk mil-surplus ammo that will last a long time.

You can get pretty cheap ammo from them. When I bought some earlier this year I paid $80 for 192 rounds pre-loaded into clips. Lots of people have strong opinions on the best ammo for the M1, but as long as you don't use the hot loaded stuff it'll be fine.

Chris_B
December 15, 2009, 07:25 PM
Sounds like I got a gun for the wall over the fireplace.

Not at all! I fire my M1 regularly. The adjustable gas plug installation is literally as easy as removing a single screw, accessible without disassembling the rifle, and replacing it

Is there a way of telling whether this rifle has already gotten the adjustable gas plug?

Yes. First you will need to familiarize yourself with the rifle. Print this out. It is good but not a perfect manual:

http://pdf.textfiles.com/manuals/FIREARMS/springfield_m1garand.pdf

The part being described is a replacement for the "gas cylinder lock screw"

Chris_B
December 15, 2009, 07:30 PM
yep, never had any problem with HXP. getting harder to come by, but CMP is supposed to be getting more.

That's what the CMP tells me too.

I have 3 full and almost 1 full spam cans, so I'm set for a little while. Sometimes I find HXP at gun shows too; I got a can filled with 5 round strippers, I assume for the BAR since I don't think it was for the '03 by the time it was made, last year. 80 bucks, HXP72, 240 rounds If I recall. Should have bought two cans but I had my eye on some other things.

Al57
December 15, 2009, 07:50 PM
Impor-tant, if your Garand is headspaced properly and is in good working order, there is no reason you cannot enjoy using it with proper for it loads, i.e. M2 ball. The best advice is to take it to a gunsmith knowledgeable in Garands before you shoot it and have him give it a clean bill of health.

Below are what original specs called for according to sources @ the CMP, Culver's Shooting Page, Wikpedia and others :

30-03 was a 220 gr FMJ @ 2300 FPS

30-06 was a 150 gr FMJ @ 2700 FPS

M1 ball was a 174.5 gr FMJ @ 2640 FPS

M2 ball was a 152 gr FMJ @ 2805 FPS

Greek HXP M2 ball is not " hot " . It is within M2 ball specs, using a powder with a proper for Garand burn rate. If it was detrimental to an otherwise " healthy " Garand, the CMP would not endorse it's use . The pic of the Garand with it's heel cracked reportedly while firing '69 HXP M2 ball, could have occured from a non ammo type of reason . If there were problems using HXP M2 ball, with it's millions of rounds already sent down range , you would hear about them ( bent op rods primarily ), the CMP would discourage it's use, and stop selling it . FWIW, the CMP will once again sell this fine ammo after aquiring another huge amount, after being out of it briefly.

Chris_B
December 15, 2009, 07:54 PM
OK, import-ant...

This thread needs pics of your M1. Hell this thread needs pics of EVERYone's M1, I don't get tired of them :D

Slamfire
December 15, 2009, 09:37 PM
Greek HXP M2 ball is not " hot " . It is within M2 ball specs, using a powder with a proper for Garand burn rate.

I have fired hundreds of rounds of Greek. In local competition. It is a tad hot. As the stuff is 40 years old, it is at the age where the US Army would scrap it.

The two gallons of brass I have are good, but 40 year old powder can and will have issues.

The pic of the Garand with it's heel cracked reportedly while firing '69 HXP M2 ball, could have occured from a non ammo type of reason .

Sure, it could have been due to something else. But the guy who reported the cracked heel , at the old Jouster site, said it cracked with HXP 69.

Others in that thread reported cracked receiver heels, but were not specific to the ammunition.

That thread is gone as Jouster lost all the old files when they changed software.

All is have is the pictures and my memories.

knights_armorer
December 16, 2009, 12:23 AM
If you fire GI ammo in your Garand, 150 ball will clock just under 2700 fps. Commercial stuff will clock 2900 fps.

you mentioned hxp greek being a tad on the hot side. indeed it is.

ive been through thousands of rounds of the hxp with every headstamp i think they have ever released to the civilian sector and it is indeed pretty lively.

most chronos through a competition electronics system in the 2850 range, with certain lots sneaking into the mid 2900's

as far as that popped heel, it had to be either a defective receiver lot, or powder way too slow. with powders in the burn rate area of 4895, you could load 152g m2 rounds to 3000fps and shoot the barrel out before that would occur to a good receiver.

its not velocity or chamber pressure. its timing, and you cant cram enough 4895 into a case to extend the burn window enough to do that to a receiver.

Slamfire
December 16, 2009, 09:37 AM
as far as that popped heel, it had to be either a defective receiver lot, or powder way too slow. with powders in the burn rate area of 4895, you could load 152g m2 rounds to 3000fps and shoot the barrel out before that would occur to a good receiver.

The reason I mentioned the 40 year age, is that I have talked with a Military Insensitive munitions expert.

The Army scraps single based powder ammo at 40 years. The Navy actually measures the amount of stabilizer in the powder and scraps based on percentage.

As powder ages, funny things can happen. On the average, as powder ages its looses potency. But, powder surfaces can get sensitized. Sometimes the burn rate goes up even though the total energy content of the powder is less.

I have had “funny” muzzle blasts with old surplus IMR 4895, stuff that was outgassing so much it caused case neck cracks. Old powder and old ammo can be unpredictable.

Al57
December 16, 2009, 10:20 AM
Fellas, I guess we all have varied definitions of what " hot " means to us. I do not look down on your definitions, they just differ a bit from mine. To me, the term " hot " means ammo that is loaded appreciably above a certain accepted +/ - tollerance level , and a load that could cause problems by itself in a given firearm in otherwise good condition, fired in over time because of appreciable over pressure.

This just has not been the history of this HXP M2 ball round. It's my opinion that it's unfair to insinuate that the use of HXP alone caused that heel to crack. If HXP was a heel popper or op rod bender, we would have had mountains of broken Garands shot with HXP by now, and certainly heard about them.

Knights_armorer, I'm just curious. Have you ever used that same comp. chrony system to see what Korean KA or PS M2 ball, Danish ( AMA ) M2 ball , or later 60's LC M2 ball runs and your findings shot in the same rifle you were getting mid 2800 FPS readings from HXP M2 ? Thanks

knights_armorer
December 16, 2009, 11:32 AM
As powder ages, funny things can happen. On the average, as powder ages its looses potency. But, powder surfaces can get sensitized. Sometimes the burn rate goes up even though the total energy content of the powder is less.

I have had “funny” muzzle blasts with old surplus IMR 4895, stuff that was outgassing so much it caused case neck cracks. Old powder and old ammo can be unpredictable.
good point. ive never really tried to note if the snappier stuff is older lots. i will have to pay more attention to that. as far as loading to higher velocities and remaining safe,,,that is new commercial 4895. i had not considered a decrease of burn rate with age. definitly noted slamfire.

Knights_armorer, I'm just curious. Have you ever used that same comp. chrony system to see what Korean KA or PS M2 ball, Danish ( AMA ) M2 ball , or later 60's LC M2 ball runs and your findings shot in the same rifle you were getting mid 2800 FPS readings from HXP M2 ? Thanks
just lake city and greek.

lake city has always been very consistant, in the low 2700's, and the hxp almost always 100+fps more, and a little less consistant.

from what ive seen all the mil-surp has been less precise than my loads (of course) but the greek has had the largest variation.

i do think however that the greek is great ammo for an m1, but slamfire is right. at least when compared to lake city, the hxp always has a little more snap.

Al57
December 16, 2009, 12:47 PM
knights_armorer, thank you for the reply. I agree with both of you that HXP M2 sounds like it runs a little faster than at least some lots of later LC M2. Some claim that later LC M2 is loaded just a bit light . Several fellow Garand shooters I have talked to and from what I have read on several different boards report that some later LC M2 has run as low as the upper 2500's to the majority claiming the 2650 range. I have never shot any LC, so I do not have 1st hand knowledge about it. I have only shot HXP M2 and Danish M2 in my Garands . Is it a possibility that the Garand you reported all velocities with tends to scoot along loads just a trifle more than many rifles or have you found the numbers are consistent when fired in different rifles ? Thanks again and best regards to all.

knights_armorer
December 16, 2009, 01:08 PM
Is it a possibility that the Garand you reported all velocities with tends to scoot along loads just a trifle more than many rifles or have you found the numbers are consistent when fired in different rifles ?

many garands. from early 6 digit springfields to 5.800000 (upper 1950's versions)

its pretty much widely known that more often than not the greek stuff just gets there a little quicker.

Slamfire
December 16, 2009, 04:34 PM
Let me mention sidewall cracks.

By the time I was into Highpower rifle, Garands were long off the firing line. The M1a was beginning to transition out.

However there were enough M1a shooters around who saw, and I saw, sidewall cracks.

The bolt rebounds of the back of the receiver heel in both the M1 and M1a. With enough pounding, sidewalls have been known to crack. I purchased a M1a from an owner who shot enough ammo through the rifle that the sidewall, under the elevation knob, cracked. Springfield Armory replaced the receiver for free, so I did not get to see the cracked receiver. I later saw a M1a receiver, on its sixth barrel, that had a crack above the bolt release.

When I was at Perry, you heard of USMC M14's developing receiver cracks. Something that was confirmed by team members. The USMC shot hot 600 yard ammo, and they lugged their receivers. Lugging could have weakened the receiver. They also shot a thousands of rounds a month in the things. I was in the pits the year when USMC Julie Watson was leading everybody with her M14 during NRA week, and I heard her receiver cracked, her rifle started flinging shots. She won high service rifle the week before, and one little crack ruined her chance to take all the marbles.

Look, many of these Garand receivers have been through mulitple rebuilds. If they were used in applications such a boot camp, the number of rounds through them could be unbelievable. That also means the heels on some have had a lot of impact loadings, and the sidewalls may be close to a fatique failure.

So, it makes sense to be nice to these things.

dosser
December 30, 2009, 10:42 AM
I have Lake City ammo 1969 and up. My cousin has some of the Greek ammo, so I might try it and see how it shoots. I have been trying to buy just US made ammo, and am slowly buliding up stock. I have had my Garand for about a year now, but with work haven't had the time to go out shooting. Hoping this will change in the next few weeks. Happy shooting to all.

SVO
December 30, 2009, 09:32 PM
I shot my first service rifle match back in the late 1970's. Back then, the experienced service rifle old timers always stressed using only H-4895 powder in handloads for a Garand. These guys pretty much convinced that IMR-4895 was not a suitable replacement for H-4895. I have also seen a CMP rack grade M-1 which shot fine using surplus M2 ball have it's op rod badly bent from firing less than a box of Remington 165 gr softpoints factory loads. Accuracy really goes to hell in a handbasket with a bent op rod. I also knew a Marine armorer who claimed that over time, M2 ball would eventually bend the op rod, given enough rounds down range. I suspect that is true, but have no hard data to prove or disprove his opinion. Reminton has a 150 gr FMJ load in it's UMC ammo line that I wonder if it is Garand friendly. Shot thru my 03A3, it runs around 2800 fps across my chronograph.

Jekyll
December 30, 2009, 10:33 PM
Hornady sells an M1 Garand ammo. 'Spensive' though.

cimarronvalley
December 30, 2009, 11:37 PM
How stupid am I? I've got Springfield Arms Tanker .30-06 that I bought back in 93. I've shot everything off the shelf and my own reloads through it. I didn't know that you had to have garand ammo to shoot through it. I've shot everything from my handloaded 125 gr Spitzers to Wally-World 180 gr round nose. Now, after 600+ rounds, I find that I need to use garand ammo. I'm such a moron!

Sport45
December 31, 2009, 12:08 AM
I'm such a moron!

No, just lucky.

mac266
December 31, 2009, 06:21 PM
The new Hornady manual has a special section just for the M1 Garand. I'd suggest picking it up and rolling your own!

Chris_B
December 31, 2009, 08:40 PM
How stupid am I? I've got Springfield Arms Tanker .30-06 that I bought back in 93. I've shot everything off the shelf and my own reloads through it. I didn't know that you had to have garand ammo to shoot through it. I've shot everything from my handloaded 125 gr Spitzers to Wally-World 180 gr round nose. Now, after 600+ rounds, I find that I need to use garand ammo. I'm such a moron!

Hi cimmaron.

Well, first, there's no USGI tanker that was issued, so who knows what was done to your rifle in terms of making it more ammo-friendly, in addition to the work that was done to make it a tanker- unless of course you happen to own a real T26? Not me. Plus, it's not "Garand ammo".

Second, there's no rule that says "An M1 rifle must explode when shooting commercial ammunition". However, there's a fair bit of good advice and experience in this thread, and personally I think it foolish to dismiss it because you've personally never heard of a problem or had one. You never will have a problem, until that problem comes up. Round 6, 600, 6,000...there is no rule to say what round you'll have a problem on, or even if you ever will. Quick anecdote:

I used to be heavily into muscle cars. In '02, I had a ball joint fail on my silly 1970 GS. I bought four new old stock ball joints, removed the old ones and installed new ones, using the factory manual. I put about 12K miles on the car a year back then. In '04, a nut on a lower ball joint failed on the highway, it stripped out the threads and dropped my suspension onto the highway. After I got the car home and inspected it, the remains of the cotter pin, and the threads of the nut were still on the ball joint stud. After around 24K miles and two safety inspections checked my ball joints, the nut decided to take a day off

I never knew the problem would come up, until I was careening down the road on the control arm. I had lots of experience with nothing being wrong with the machine, and no warning that a problem was about to ruin my day- until the suspension failed

cimarronvalley
January 1, 2010, 08:29 AM
Meant no disrespect to the thread or members. I've only been shooting garands for 30 + years and never realized you needed specific ammo to shoot in them. I have or had (age catches up to all) several WWII friends that own and shoot or shot them using off shelf ammo with no problems. Your second paragraph illustrates the point to a degree. Any time you buy a weapon there is a potential for engineering malfunction whether the weapon is new or used. As far as I'm concerned you accept that liability when you purchase the weapon.

You are correct in that my current garand is not an US issued weapon. That is why I pointed out in my post that it was from Springfield Armory. In the late 80s to about 92 they were assembling garands from new warehoused parts and selling them prior to SA building their own. There are no matching serial numbers on it but it is a Tanker (or T-26 to you) model and very accurate. I assumed the responsibility when I purchased it that there may be some flaws just like I assume responsibility when I purchase on the shelf ammo. I've been shooting since 61 and reloading since 71. Do I reload the same rounds and pressure for my 03 or garand than my Win 70, Ruger 77, Weatherby Vangaurd. The answer is NO. Neither do I expect my M38 Sweedish Mauser to accept the same reloads as my Ruger 77 in 6.5x55.

No disrepect was intended to the Forum or members. Just siting my own and friends experiences over the last 40+ years.

Swampy1
January 1, 2010, 08:40 AM
import-ant,

Much good info here regarding the M1's ammo requirements.... though I'm surprised that nobody has yet mentioned the actual specs handed down by the Springfield Armory techs (The REAL Springfield Armory.).

The following info was given to the NRA and CMP to pass on to civilian shooters way back in the 50's.... when the M1 was first being made available to civvy highpower competitors. Prior to that, the only folks who had access to M1's were all military... and they shot only the ammo they were given by uncle sugar.

"M1 Rifle Gas System Safe Load Rules"

1) NEVER load powder that is SLOWER than IMR-4320
2) NEVER load bullets that are HEAVIER than 180 grains.

Observing BOTH of these load rules will keep the gas port pressure on your M1 rifle within spec.

Don't be afraid of shooting your old M1. It's MEANT to be shot. Just give it the type of ammo it was designed for and it will serve you very well.... just as it served the US military with distinction through three wars.

I own several M1's and shoot literally THOUSANDS of rounds through them annually. They are great rifles and loads of fun to shoot.

Best regards,
Swampy

Garands forever
2007 NRA Missouri State 600 yard Service Rifle Champion
Score 774-23X..... with an M1 Garand

Chris_B
January 1, 2010, 09:30 AM
No disrepect was intended to the Forum or members. Just siting my own and friends experiences over the last 40+ years.

I understand, that's why I only explained my standpoint. If I had thought you were trying to be a jerk I would have said 'well remember you're the expert when you're in the ambulance' ;)

I'm just saying that there's two ways any machine- particularly old ones- work:

1) the way they were intended to work
2) the way they actually work

We always hope that 1 and 2 are the same, and sometimes we depend on it, often we bet on it. That's what my old car story was trying to illustrate

I hear what you're saying, I really do. My experience with M1s is by necessity not as long as yours; it can't be as I have not even reached 40 years yet. But I can have a lot of experience with machines, both lovingly built correctly by the owner and hastily slapped together by a semi-skilled worker. My experience always urges caution in both cases

How about a photo of your Tanker? :)

Slamfire
January 2, 2010, 09:13 PM
I have or had (age catches up to all) several WWII friends that own and shoot or shot them using off shelf ammo with no problems.

When you get enough Garand shooters together, and they all shoot commercial ammunition, someone is going to have problems.

2001 was the first year the CMP issued commercial ammunition on the firing line at Camp Perry. They contracted with Federal for 150 grain ammunition. The CMP did not know enough to specify any ammunition characteristics.

People had problems. The Federal ammo was clocking closer to 2900 fps than 2800 fps. The retired Marine I was scoring for, his almost new Garand rifle partially ejected his clip during rapid fire. The ammunition caused timing problems. He was so disgusted, because the Garand Match is an no alibi match, he just packed up his gear and left without shooting his last ten shots.

There were enough ammunition induced malfunctions that the CMP tested GI ammo to determine what was going on. Well what was going on was that their Federal ammo, made to commercial specs was too hot for Garands.

The CMP fixed that. The 2002 Federal Garand match ammo I shot was clocking around just at 2699 fps in a 26" barrel.

Ammunition complaints sort of went away..

Richard Sheckler
February 1, 2010, 02:48 PM
Was looking for a specific match load using Nosler 168 grain hpbt in LC brass when I came across this thread.

Has anyone considered that a weak spring will cause the heel to break out in a Garand receiver while using M2 ball?

Regarding the match load, can anyone steer me regarding powder? I'm considering Hodgden H4895 at 46 grains. Good, bad, mediocre?

Richard

Slamfire
February 1, 2010, 03:03 PM
You are not going to go wrong with H4895. The best powders to use in a Garand type action are IMR 4895, H4895, and AA2495. AA2495 is Accurate Arms copy of IMR 4895, stupidly they call it 2495 to confuse everyone. H4895 is a little different in burn rate, but it is really hard to see the difference at with loads appropriate for a Garand.

60's National match ammunition was loaded with a 174 and IMR4895. Many shooter's pulled the military bullet and put a 168 match on top.

I have shot thousands of 168 Match 47.0 IMR 4895, LC cases, CCI#34 primers, OAL LT. 3.30"

I regularly use 168 Hornady, 168 Nosler, and 168 Sierra Match bullets with this load. It all depends on price. They all shoot well.

You could cut the load by a grain or a grain and half, and not hurt anything.

Shot this, with my load, 20 shots for record, prone slow fire, 100 yards, with my Garand at our Local 100 yard highpower match.

Considering there was snow on the ground, cold as blazes, and I only shoot a Garand a couple of times a year, I think a 190 was doing good.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/Targets/M1190-6X5Dec09.jpg

Richard Sheckler
February 1, 2010, 03:57 PM
Thanks! I just ordered a Dillon case gage for the '06 and also for the .308 in event I weaken and buy an M1A.

I like your group.

My tired eyes can see all the way down range where they store blurry blobs we're supposed to shoot at. I miss my younger days.

Slamfire
February 1, 2010, 05:45 PM
Thanks! I just ordered a Dillon case gage for the '06 and also for the .308 in event I weaken and buy an M1A.

Weaken and buy an M1a.

The M14 is the ultimate product improvement of the Garand. All of the strong points of the Garand, none of the weak points.

Mr X
February 1, 2010, 06:20 PM
While we are on the subject, can one of the Garand enthusiasts clarify something I know goes around the M1 community:

What, if anything, has been the consensus regarding use of commercial ammunition in the new production Springfield Armory M1s chambered in 30-06?

Has SA had anything to say about ammo choices?

dmazur
February 2, 2010, 10:04 AM
What, if anything, has been the consensus regarding use of commercial ammunition in the new production Springfield Armory M1s chambered in 30-06?

Has SA had anything to say about ammo choices?

From the SA Garand manual -

3. The M1 Garand is designed and built to specifications to shoot U.S. Caliber .30 Rifle cartridge ammunition or 30-’06 Springfield. Springfield also builds Garands to shoot .308 caliber cartridges. The correct caliber for your gun is stamped on the barrel. DO NOT USE ANY OTHER CALIBER. The specifications for standard military ammunition include harder primers to withstand the slight indentation from the firing pin when the bolt chambers a cartridge. This slight indentation is normal. The use of civilian ammunition with more sensitive primers or handloads with commercial primers and/or improperly seated primers increase the risk of primer detonation when the bolt slams forward. This unexpected "slam fire" can occur even if the trigger is not being pulled and if the safety is on. Use of military specification ammunition will help avoid this. Every shooter should use extreme caution when loading this or any other firearm. See page 20 for instructions on proper loading to help avoid a "slam fire". Also see enclosed article on “Slam Fire” written by Wayne Faatz.

4. Use only recently made high quality, original military or factory-manufactured ammunition in the correct caliber. Old ammunition may deteriorate from age causing it to be dangerous. Do not use cartridges that are dirty, wet, corroded, bent or damaged. Do not oil cartridges. Do not spray aerosol-type lubricants, preservatives or cleaners directly onto cartridges or where excess spray may flow into contact with cartridges. Defective ammunition is the primary cause of mishaps and can cause injury or death to you and bystanders.

SA's position seems to be "recent military ammo or commercial, but commercial may slam-fire". They completely ignore the op-rod issue, which is not a safety problem.

My understanding is that new production SA Garands were made with GI op-rods and internal parts. The only thing new about them were the receivers, barrels and stocks. Therefore, they have exactly the same limitations on ammo selection as the original Garands.