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EnoughGUN
December 6, 2009, 10:29 PM
I am thinking of buying a 15 inch shot gun (total length) just for the fun of it really. Any information on what they are like to shoot or what the pattern is like would be a great help. Thank you.

dogtown tom
December 7, 2009, 12:59 AM
I've never shot one, or owned one.
Having shot a lightweight 12ga single shot I can guess the recoil would be worse.

You should know that the $5 AOW tax does not allow you to put a stock on if you decide the recoil is too much. Putting a stock on an AOW makes it a SBS. It may be better to go ahead and pay the $200 SBS tax and be able to use buttstock or pistol grip only whenever you wish.

Willie Lowman
December 7, 2009, 01:14 AM
I own two 14" barrel cylinder bore SBS. They pattern (with quality buffered 00 buckshot) the same as my friend's 26" 500 with the modified choke tube in. That would be between 9" to 14" patterns at 30 yards depending on the brand of buckshot used. With cheap nonbuffered shot, the pattern is huge. I am lucky to get more than three pellets on a silhouette target at 30 yards with it.

If your state won't allow SBS get a AOW. If your state will allow SBS, get that, they are much more versatile (use of stocks).

Crosshair
December 7, 2009, 01:22 PM
Any information on what they are like to shoot or what the pattern is like would be a great help. Thank you.

With Birdshot, my 12" 20 Gauge AOW gets about 18-20" at 10 yards. Haven't patterned Buckshot with it yet.

Here is the recoil when I'm shooting a 20 gauge slug. (Video)

20 Gauge AOW - Slug (http://gra.midco.net/video1/20AOWSlug.avi)

Significant, but it can be done.:D

TRX
December 7, 2009, 01:47 PM
I have a 10" AOW. It is very ammunition-sensitive. Some buckshot loads give giant fireballs but won't penetrate cardboard boxes at 10 feet, lighter "rabbit loads" work much better. I don't reload 12ga, so I've only used whatever was on sale at the store.

When mine was made they just cut off the stock and reshaped the wrist into a flintlock-style pistol grip. Recoil simply drives the gun back through your closed hand and the trigger guard wallops your index finger. After a few shots you have a painful bruise. Brenneke slugs will draw blood.

Back when I bought it I really wanted the sawed-down double look. The gunsmith tried to get me to try out the little pump shotguns he was making; three shots with a pistol grip, not really any bigger than the double. I didn't listen to him, but I wish I had.


If you plan to shoot it, you'll need to arrange a place. In my area the mere sight of the shotgun generated responses varying from "get the hell out of here NOW" to "we're calling the police and you're going to jail forever." None of them would look at the copy of my ATF paperwork I brought along, nor were they willing to call the local ATF office for a reality check.

VUPDblue
December 7, 2009, 07:03 PM
I have a Safety Harbor KEG12 inbound and my good friend has a Serbu Super Shorty. At 15 yards, the Serbu will put about 1-2 pellets of 00buck on an IPSC target, sometimes none at all. With Flitecontrol 00buck, it'll pattern at about 15" at the same distance. For reference, my 18" barreled 870 patterns Flitecontrol in a slug-type group from that distance and it patterns 00buck of most other brands in a 6-8" group. YMMV, HTH!

EnoughGUN
December 7, 2009, 08:09 PM
the one I was looking at is the Serbu super shorty. It is (I think) 15.5 inches overall. Someone mentioned a 10 inch but I don't know if they mean barrel length or total length.
I am not super worried about pattern at 30 yards but I think 30 feet is about right. If it patterns around 15in at 30 feet that would be good.

VUPDblue
December 7, 2009, 08:44 PM
It'll definitely spread, but you'll just have to try out several loads and see which patterns you like best. Shame....;)

EnoughGUN
December 7, 2009, 09:11 PM
I live in MAryland (yes I know I feel sorry for me too) I can't find any regulations on AOW or SBS. Does anyone know how MD classifies these?

Crosshair
December 7, 2009, 10:20 PM
I live in MAryland (yes I know I feel sorry for me too) I can't find any regulations on AOW or SBS. Does anyone know how MD classifies these?
As far as I am aware of, All NFA is legal in Maryland.

Here is a good list of dealers.

http://www.major-malfunction.com/maj_malf_5u_005.htm

dogtown tom
December 8, 2009, 12:10 AM
TRX: I have a 10" AOW...

...When mine was made they just cut off the stock and reshaped the wrist into a flintlock-style pistol grip...

...The gunsmith tried to get me to try out the little pump shotguns he was making; three shots with a pistol grip, not really any bigger than the double. I didn't listen to him, but I wish I had.

That's scary.:eek:

It is my understanding that you cannot make an AOW from an existing shotgun- it must be manufactured from a receiver that has never had a stock attached. If that gunsmith is cutting down existing shotgun buttstocks and barrels he is manufacturing short barrelled shotguns- NOT AOW's.

NFA Handbook: http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5320-8.pdf

See page 6 for 2.1.2 Weapon made from a shotgun







.

VUPDblue
December 8, 2009, 04:32 PM
yep, if it had a stock attached (as you referred to "reshaping the stock into a pistol grip") then it HAS to be a SBS...

Rebok87
December 15, 2009, 08:55 PM
Several months ago one of our clients asked us to build a shorty AOW based on the Serbu style. He provided a Mossberg 500 Maverick. The little weapon has a 6 ¾” barrel and holds 3 rounds (2 in the mag tube 1 in the chamber). It bucked pretty good but was more than manageable for me with 00 buck; I’m a girl 5’5 / 130’ish lbs. Accuracy and patterning depending on ammo, where about 18”-24” at 25 ft. Hope this info helps. http://i745.photobucket.com/albums/xx97/rebok87/AOW4.jpg

dogtown tom
December 16, 2009, 01:26 AM
Can you explain how that qualifies as an AOW and not as a "Weapon made from a shotgun"?

David Hineline
December 16, 2009, 10:17 AM
A shotgun that came from the manuf. with only a pistol grip is not a longgun it can not be sold by a FFL dealer to anyone under 21 just like a handgun. Since it is not a longgun it meets the definition of Smooth Bore AOW with a short barrel, as long as it never had and never will have a buttstock.

But the definition of AOW also included combination guns manually reloaded and they can have a buttstock.

So if you took a double barrel over/under 12ga and sleeved one barrel to 45/70 or other rifled cartridge and cut down the barrel short, but left the buttstock that would be AOW.

That exact pictured combination could be a short shotgun if it started as a shotgun.

LukeA
December 16, 2009, 11:45 AM
That exact pictured combination could be a short shotgun if it started as a shotgun.

Yes, but the transfer tax on an AOW is $5 instead of the $200 for an SBS, so there's an incentive to start with a shotgun that has never had a stock.

paull
December 16, 2009, 04:33 PM
Remember, the $5 AOW tax is only for transfers...
Someone will pay $200 to make the AOW...
I expect that the manufacturer will not eat that cost.
p

Crosshair
December 16, 2009, 06:59 PM
Remember, the $5 AOW tax is only for transfers...
Someone will pay $200 to make the AOW...
I expect that the manufacturer will not eat that cost.
Class 7 NFA Manufacturers don't have to pay the tax when building.

paull
December 17, 2009, 08:37 AM
Class 7 NFA Manufacturers don't have to pay the tax when building.

...and this thread is just crawling with "Class 7 NFA Manufacturers", I'll bet.:D
p

Crosshair
December 17, 2009, 08:59 PM
...and this thread is just crawling with "Class 7 NFA Manufacturers", I'll bet.
No, but if you have one nearby they can register and turn the gun into an AOW, then transfer it back to you. The SOT I go through is also licensed as a manufacturer, he mainly makes his own suppressors.

David Hineline
December 18, 2009, 12:00 AM
I would charge $100 to register a gun and transfer for someone more to actually cut the barrel, so the $195 savings over doing it all yourself gets eaten up quickly.

The biggest advantage of the AOW unit is not the tax savings it is that some states do not allow Sawed off Shotguns and no federal paperwork is needed to transport an AOW across state lines, where as the short shotgun must have previous ATF approval to cross state lines.

http://myweb.cableone.net/uziforme/index.htm

Crosshair
December 18, 2009, 08:06 PM
The biggest advantage of the AOW unit is not the tax savings it is that some states do not allow Sawed off Shotguns and no federal paperwork is needed to transport an AOW across state lines, where as the short shotgun must have previous ATF approval to cross state lines.
That too. You can only have C&R SBS in Minnesota whereas AOWs are unrestricted. That was one reason for going the AOW route for me because I wanted to be able to take it into MN. (That and the price was right.)