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Tomsfiretruck
December 2, 2009, 08:12 PM
Thanks to all who responded to my query.

After doing a little more investigating, I fimnally decided to buy it today.

Surprisingly, my wife who normally is strongly opposed to firearms , agreed with me. I must have done a good job of sweet talking to her.

I have read and checked all of the markings (AD-PN-circle star over a shield)on the revolver, but am not sure I see the manufactures specific mark.

So far I am saying this is a "PIETTA" revolver.

Regards,

Tom in Temple, TX

Doc Hoy
December 2, 2009, 08:43 PM
Good job TFT,

Another satisfied customer.

Hawg
December 3, 2009, 11:12 AM
AD is the date code for 1978, PN is a Gardonne proof mark. A Pietta should be marked FLLI Pietta on the side of the barrel and should have FAP inside a diamond. Uberti's trade mark is a U inside an octagon which is actually a rifled barrel viewed from the muzzle.

Shotgun Willy
December 3, 2009, 12:32 PM
Congratulations, you can now watch westerns on television, and fondle it like the rest of us do, ours.

A couple of places to look manufacturers markings are under the loading lever, and on the bottom of the grip.
Oh, and pic's are always welcome.

Tomsfiretruck
December 3, 2009, 03:24 PM
I stand corrected..........................

I found the makers mark, inscribe on the bottom of the barrel under the loading arm.

It is marked "DGG" within a circle, which I believe is the mark for
Armi San Polo S.r.l. which became Euroarms Itali S.r.l.

That was the only place I never bothered to look....:-((

Tom in Temple, TX
Now a proud supporter of the 2nd Ammendment!!!

Tomsfiretruck
December 3, 2009, 03:33 PM
Here is photo of my 1851 Navy Yank Sheriff

Tom in Temple

Doc Hoy
December 3, 2009, 06:20 PM
DGG is Armi San Paolo. I just bought an 1860 in polished steel which I really like.

Yours is pretty.

Must have been a pleasant surprise when it came in with a steel frame.

robhof
December 3, 2009, 07:32 PM
If you need parts for it in the future check out VTIGunparts.com. They carry most parts for the ASM revolvers. I recently got the Wells Fargo 31 clone on auction that was an ASM and it needed some parts. It shot well though, just a little too much play for me and for the price I paid, it's still cheaper than a new gun. The fit and finish were very good. Good luck with yours, be warned they are habit forming. I've got 4 pistols and 6 b/p rifles. The 31 was supposed to be for the wife, but I shoot it more than her. She does like to shoot it though.

madcratebuilder
December 4, 2009, 09:40 AM
Good luck with yours, be warned they are habit forming. I've got 4 pistols and 6 b/p rifles. The 31 was supposed to be for the wife, but I shoot it more than her. She does like to shoot it though.

You might as well start saving for that second gunsafe now:D

You know there well be more.

alphahr
December 29, 2009, 01:10 PM
The gun I purchased was made by F. LLI Pietta historical weapons reproduction. There is a very well documented instruction book and the manual also covered several other black powder models sold by them. Each model had specifics directed to that gun and general instructions for all. The do’s and don’ts were well written and easily understood. Loading, shooting, disassembly for cleaning and safety was discussed for each gun in the manual as well as general gun handling safety and specific black powder safety.

Before I started feeding powder and lead to my new gun I spent a considerable amount of time getting to know it. Having owned other single action revolvers in the past made me a firm believer in knowing your gun before you attempt to shoot it. The first thing I was interested in was disassembly for cleaning. There is one thing about a black powder gun that is more truer than any other gun. The more you shoot, the dirtier it gets.

I proceeded to fully disassembling the gun for inspection and initial cleaning and oiling. There was a lot of black smudge in the workings which appeared to be dried machine oil and metallic particles. I used a plastic scraper, alcohol and cotton swabs to clean it up. The cylinder was removed by sliding it off the spindle and then wiping down the cylinder and spindle with alcohol. At the base of the spindle was an accumulation of the black substance found elsewhere and was scraped out and wiped down with alcohol. With the frame pieces cleaned I then concentrated on the cylinder.

Except for the six removable nipples the cylinder is one solid piece. The nipples appeared to have some brown substance around them which looked like locktite. Since these would have to be changed out or cleaned I decided that removing them now and cleaning that area was in order. Using the supplied nipple wrench I discovered that no two nipples were in the same tightness and one was actually loose. The brown substance was scraped and wiped away with alcohol and the area cleaned. The nipples themselves were soaked in alcohol and then brushed and cleaned. I discovered that two of the nipples had ports that were clogged with the brown substance. I holed these out and checked the other four to make sure the ports were clear.

I then oiled each component and reassembled the gun making sure that the trigger spring received of few drops of lubrication. Considering how dirty it was before I took it apart I was not surprised on how much better everything worked after I was finished.

The other item of concern is the softness of the cylinder metal. After cocking the hammer approximately 100 times during the cleaning and tuning period, I started to notice peening to the sides of the cylinder stop grooves. The cylinder stop that pops up from above the trigger to halt the rotation of the cylinder has such tight tolerances that it peened the side of the slots to such a degree that the cylinder will rotate off center when the hammer is cocked back causing a dangerous situation. Not only was the hammer not lined up with the firing cap, but the ball in the cylinder was no longer lined up with the barrel. If the gun was fired in this condition it could cause an explosion possibly injuring the person firing the gun, in this case me! After contacting my gunsmith I did three things to rectify the problem. First, I filed the rising top edge of the cylinder lock mechanism so that it would slide into the cylinder stop slot in case of a slide by thus locking the cylinder into the correct alignment. Second, I ordered another cylinder from the store I purchase the gun at, and third I got online to post my results to the online forum where black powder enthusiasts share their information about their guns on the stores website.

The manufacturer of my gun knew that makes reproduction guns although they do make a lot of models of old west guns. My experience in the disassembly and the overall condition of the gun new out of the box would not allow me to suggest loading and shooting it before initial cleaning and inspection. The condition of the components of the gun from the factory suggests quick assembly with little care to cleaning and detail. In my opinion, the gun would not be safe to shoot out of the box based on the condition of my gun. After working down all sharp edges and sanding down the high lips of the hand grip I feel it could be a serviceable gun.

I will let you know what the shooting results are when I actually get to load it. Now it's off to shoot my 1858 Texas .44!

mykeal
December 29, 2009, 04:10 PM
Interesting story, not unlike many I've both heard and experienced. You'll get more exposure by starting your own thread on the topic rather than appending it to someone else's thread, even though the topics are related.

One salient point - the poor timing you attributed to the bolt peening the cylinder stop notch will not in fact cause an explosion. While it is not a desirable condition, it is not nearly as dangerous as you imply; there is no known evidence of such a condition resulting in an explosion in a black powder revolver.

I recommend Pettifogger's treatise on tuning the single action black powder revolvers as an excellent primer for those interested in the next step:
Tuning the Pietta Part One (http://www.theopenrange.net/articles/Tuning_the_Pietta_Part_One.pdf)
Tuning the Pietta Part Two (http://www.theopenrange.net/articles/Tuning_the_Pietta_Part_Two.pdf)

The Mike Cumpston/Johnny Bates books on Percussion Pistols and Revolvers are another excellent resource you might enjoy; both available from Amazon.com by doing a search for Cumpston and Bates

robhof
December 29, 2009, 08:09 PM
That was an interesting detail of the process of making your gun shootable. My ASM 31 also would throw the cylinder past the battery position, I sent it to a gunsmith who sent it back and said he couldn't find parts, searched the web and found parts, got a new cylinder and had to fit it to the hand of my gun; worked great and looked at the old cylinder and proceeded to file to match the new cyl., now I have 2 working cylinders for my gun.

madcratebuilder
December 30, 2009, 10:23 AM
Here is photo of my 1851 Navy Yank Sheriff

This is from an old Euroarms catalog.

Colt Navy 1851 Sheriff's Model-steel frame

"The Sheriff's version of the '51 Navy Revolver originated on the rip-roaring, lusty American Frontier and not the Colt Factory. Western lawmen needed a revolver that was more concealable than the standard Navy and thus was born the 'Sherrif's Model of the 1851 Colt"

Part # 1170-.44cal
Part # 1180-.36cal
Recommended ball diameter: .375 or .451 round or conical, pure lead.
Percussion cap size: #11

If you like I could j-peg that page and e-mail it to you, PM me if you want it.

alphahr
December 30, 2009, 10:05 PM
mykeal, I am VERY concerned about your statement:

One salient point - the poor timing you attributed to the bolt peening the cylinder stop notch will not in fact cause an explosion. While it is not a desirable condition, it is not nearly as dangerous as you imply; there is no known evidence of such a condition resulting in an explosion in a black powder revolver.

How can this be possible? Igniting a cylinder full of black powder with the ball pointed at the edge of the barrel and not down the barrel seems to me to leave no place for the exploding gases to exit, or at least a very small area between the cylinder and the barrel.

I would kindly request you modify your statement somewhat before a newbie possibly gets hurt. I have reviewed dozens of photos on the web from exploded SA with much stronger metal than the open brass frame 1851 Navy. I posted out of respect and concern for others who have purchased this gun. I have not had any problems with my Italian made 1858 'Texas' .44

By the way, thanks for posting the tuning information. That was great.

mykeal
December 31, 2009, 04:39 PM
I rather expect that the photos you refer to were of guns damaged by overloading cartridge cases with smokeless powder. I say again, and ask you to provide clear references to any information you have that refutes this,

the poor timing you attributed to the bolt peening the cylinder stop notch will not in fact cause an explosion. While it is not a desirable condition, it is not nearly as dangerous as you imply; there is no known evidence of such a condition resulting in an explosion in a black powder revolver.

A full chamber of black powder will not cause cylinder failure in the condition you describe. The ball will be swaged, not stopped, by the mismatched chamber/forcing cone interface. It will not seal the expanding gasses in the chamber, and even if it did they are not of sufficient magnitude to cause cylinder failure, ASSUMING the shooter heeds the very well known and frequently repeated admonition to use ONLY BLACK POWDER IN A BLACK POWDER REVOLVER.

I await your proof to the contrary.

madcratebuilder
January 1, 2010, 07:26 AM
How can this be possible? Igniting a cylinder full of black powder with the ball pointed at the edge of the barrel and not down the barrel seems to me to leave no place for the exploding gases to exit, or at least a very small area between the cylinder and the barrel.

One thing to consider on the cap and ball revolver is the hammer well not be able to hit the cap if the cylinder is more that a few degrees out of alignment. As mykeal said "The ball will be swaged, not stopped, by the mismatched chamber/forcing cone interface."

I have reviewed dozens of photos on the web from exploded SA with much stronger metal than the open brass frame 1851 Navy.

Cap and ball revolvers? Doubtful, they just don't build that much pressure. The cylinders in the brass frame guns are just as strong as the steel frame guns. The chamber is what contains the pressure.

You are probably looking at cartridge revolvers. Yes they do blow up, and almost always due to a careless reloader pushing the pressure limits past safe levels.

Welcome to the forum.


The gun I purchased was made by F. LLI Pietta historical weapons reproduction. There is a very well documented instruction book and the manual also covered several other black powder models sold by them. Each model had specifics directed to that gun and general instructions for all. The do’s and don’ts were well written and easily understood. Loading, shooting, disassembly for cleaning and safety was discussed for each gun in the manual as well as general gun handling safety and specific black powder safety.

alphahr, I want to add this last thing. The instruction manuals that come with Italian revolvers are not what I would call helpful. Incorrect and incomplete information. I would highly recommend you buy a copy of "Percussion Pistols & Revolvers-History, Performance & Pratical Use"
by Bates & Cumpston. This book covers the most common and several of the less common black powder revolvers on the market today. This is real hands on information written by shooters, not company lawyers. If you own one cap and ball or twenty this is a must have book.

mykeal
January 1, 2010, 03:16 PM
I suspect we've heard the last from alphahr.