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View Full Version : So I think I shot my best group with my Browning BAR tonight.


hometheaterman
November 10, 2009, 11:41 PM
So as many of you probably remember I've had accuracy problems with my BAR in 30-06. I've found my best groups are usually from Federal Fusions. However, the Federal soft points have a slightly larger group in most cases but also cost quite a bit more.

Anyway, I went shooting it some today to make sure it's still close for rifle season.

This is how it shot when I put it up with Federal 150 grain soft points
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v445/hometheaterman/Federal150grainsoftpoints1.jpg

As you can see not that great.

So I shot it today with the Federal soft points again. The first shot was the green one. Not sure what happened maybe I pulled. The next 3 were the other ones that were lower. They seem to be right around 1". This is my best group I've had so far that I can remember at 100 yards. I've had better at 50 but never 100.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v445/hometheaterman/111009_134500.jpg

Overall, I was pretty happy. I ended up shooting a 4th one later that hit right there with those 3. Then a 5th hit lower but I think I pulled.

For some reason since I was shooting low I decided I needed to adjust the scope up. I did and it didn't move up so I turned it a few more clicks. It hit the bulls eye area twice then the next 4 shots or so never even hit the target. I finally figured out was hitting right at the top of the target. I mean the very top. I adjusted the scope down while watching the crosshairs come down quite a bit. I shot and it didn't seem to have moved at all as I still hit the top of the target.

After adjusting the scope some this is the group I got.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v445/hometheaterman/111009_143100.jpg

As you can see it sucks.

Anyway, since after adjusting it downward quite a bit and seeing the crosshairs move while I adjusted it I shot again and it still hit the top of the target. I can't figure out what the deal is here. So I turned it down quite a bit more. Similar to around how it was at first maybe even set for it to be slightly lower. I shot 5 more shots and this is how it hit.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v445/hometheaterman/111009_231800.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v445/hometheaterman/111009_231801.jpg

I'm not sure if it was me or the gun on those two spread out there. Since I shot 5 all around there should I not worry about it and hunt with it? It just worried me when I adjusted it before and shot two that were fine then after that they started not even hitting the target.

Since all 5 were close should I leave it how it is? BTW I ran a few patches down the barrel with Wipe Out bore cleaner before the last 5 shots.

What do you think of my first group? I thought for this gun it was pretty great just a little low.

Piper Cub
November 11, 2009, 06:04 AM
What no photos of the BAR????

ac700wildcat
November 11, 2009, 06:14 AM
Sounds like you have scope problems to me.

bcarver
November 11, 2009, 08:25 AM
check bases and rings.
How many clicks did you move it?
what distance are you shooting?
next time don't swap during testing.

SundownRider
November 11, 2009, 09:14 AM
+1 Piper Cub

Pics of the rifle, please.

hometheaterman
November 11, 2009, 10:28 AM
It's not the scope I'm 99% sure. The reason I say this is I've had different scopes on this gun and all have had this problem. The first was a Leupold VX-I and now this one is a Burris Fullfield II. If I sat the rifle on the sandbags so it was stead and turned the adjustment on the scope I could see the crosshairs move up or down whichever way I was turning the knob just like they should. It just seemed like I'd move them then shot and the POI wouldn't change much but I know the crosshairs on the scope moved as I watched them move while turning the dial.

I've never had a rifle that's as weird as this but for some reason it's always been weird. I spent a ton of ammo last year trying to figure it out as well as a new scope and making sure the rings and mounts were all tight.

Since I shot 5 shots close to the bullseye do you guys think it's safe to go hunt with it or should I shoot it again just to make sure?

hometheaterman
November 11, 2009, 10:30 AM
Not a great picture but here is a picture of it
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v445/hometheaterman/111009_140801.jpg

Piper Cub
November 11, 2009, 02:45 PM
Have you tried different brands of ammo? Nice looking rifle!!

hometheaterman
November 11, 2009, 07:59 PM
I've tried many many different brands of ammo. I've tried Winchester 150 grain ballistic silver tips, Winchester 150 grain Silvertips(classic style), Winchester 150 grain power points, Winchester 165 grain soft points, Remington 165 grain CoreLokts, Federal Fusion 150 grain, and Federal 150 grain soft points. Out of all of those the Federal Fusions shoot the best groups followed by the Federal soft points. I can on average get about a 2" group or slightly under with the Fusions. I can get about a 2.5"-3" group with the soft points. However, the other day with the Federal soft points I shot a few groups around 1" or so. However, some were larger than that too. Not sure if it was me or the rifle.

jgcoastie
November 11, 2009, 09:10 PM
#1. Use a sturdy bench. Card tables generally do not make the cut for sturdy...

#2. Check your mounting.
- What type of bases are you using?
- What type of rings?

#3. Try a different grain of bullet...
I've always had good experiences with my BAR MkII Safari w/ BOSS (.30/06) using 165gr Winchester Ballistic Silvertips... 180gr also pleases me... Both generally shoot under 1 MOA.

Now granted, I have a BOSS on mine, so I can usually turn a 1.5"-2" group into .75"-1" fairly easily...

#4. Do you flinch?

#5. How's the crown look? A ding in the crown could do this... Happened to a .243 I had once..

crimsondave
November 11, 2009, 09:18 PM
Let me make a suggestion. I'm guessing you don't reload, so that limits you a little bit. Buy some 180 grain ammo. One of my 06's will not shoot worth a crap with bullets under 180 grains, but is under 1" with them. Just buy a box of cheap Remingtons in 180 gr. and see what it will do.

hometheaterman
November 11, 2009, 09:24 PM
I know I probably need a more sturdy rest but at the same time I don't have a huge problem with it I don't think as I can usually still hold it fairly still. I don't really have a better way to rest it right now.

I halfway wonder sometimes if I'm not part of the problem the gun shoots these groups. I shot it at a friends range setup on his sturdy built stand with a vise type device and shot one big hole at 50 yards. It was 6 shots that made one big hole. However, I can shoot decent at 50 yards off that card table too. Once I step out to 100 that's where I seem to have issues. His range doesn't go out to 100 just 50 as that's all they shoot.

When I bought the rifle they said they were Leupold bases and rings however, I'm wondering if they really are or if they are red fields. They have a R on them circled with lines coming out from the R. I'm not sure which they are. They seem tight though. It's the one piece base and the rings where you can adjust the rear one side to side.

As for flinching I probably do slightly after several shots as my shoulder starts hurting with this gun. The kick isn't horrible but it's enough to make your shoulder start hurting after 10 rounds or so. I shot 35 rounds yesterday and my shoulder has a bruise from it.

As for the 180 grain bullets I keep saying I'm going to try them but I never have. I need to try some. I'm seriously considering starting to reload I just haven't done it yet. It seems like you can reload better bullets for a lot cheaper and play with them a lot more.

To me the crown looks fine. I can't feel anything wrong with it and tried running a q tip around it and it doesn't snag on any burs nor can I see any.

I really at first thought it was me shooting but I had a friend shoot it who is a lot better shot than I am and it didn't do much better for him. He said he wondered if something was wrong with it but that it was close enough to kill a deer so he didn't seem that worried about it.

crimsondave
November 11, 2009, 09:37 PM
If you think it is you, could you get a shooting buddy to try it out for you? That should answer that question. I notice from your picture that your gun has no pad. Have you considered installing one or having one installed? A 30-06 goes from a real bastard to a kitty cat with a pad. While I still rec. trying the 180 grain bullets, the recoil will be worse with them.

hometheaterman
November 11, 2009, 09:44 PM
I said last year I was going to check into having a recoil pad installed. However, I never did and honestly didn't think about it again until I got it out this year. I think it really needs one but at the same time I hate to modify the rifle.

If I get a recoil pad installed can you switch back to the hard factory but plate? Or would they have to modify the stock to install a recoil pad? Any idea's on what a recoil pad would cost to have installed?

As for the shooting buddy I had one shoot it who is a good shot. He didn't have any better luck than me. That's why I'm not so sure after seeing that that it really is me. At first I thought it was but he couldn't get any better groups than I could with it either. I don't have as big of problem with anything else I've shot but sometimes I don't have super tight groups either and I know it's me.

jgcoastie
November 11, 2009, 09:47 PM
When I bought the rifle they said they were Leupold bases and rings however, I'm wondering if they really are or if they are red fields. They have a R on them circled with lines coming out from the R. I'm not sure which they are. They seem tight though. It's the one piece base and the rings where you can adjust the rear one side to side.
I would make sure your rear ring is centered properly. I've brain-farted and had that be the culprit on a couple of guns in years past...

As for flinching I probably do slightly after several shots as my shoulder starts hurting with this gun. The kick isn't horrible but it's enough to make your shoulder start hurting after 10 rounds or so. I shot 35 rounds yesterday and my shoulder has a bruise from it.
I would recommend that you stop shooting when it starts getting uncomfortable. Especially if you're trying to work out kinks with a gun, shooting it while in pain will only make matters worse.

As for the 180 grain bullets I keep saying I'm going to try them but I never have. I need to try some. I'm seriously considering starting to reload I just haven't done it yet. It seems like you can reload better bullets for a lot cheaper and play with them a lot more.
I would strongly recommend 180's... I have had some issues with my reloads cycling properly and have come to the conclusion that I'm just as well off to shoot factory ammo as little as I actually shoot it.

To me the crown looks fine. I can't feel anything wrong with it and tried running a q tip around it and it doesn't snag on any burs nor can I see any.
At least you've got that...

I really at first thought it was me shooting but I had a friend shoot it who is a lot better shot than I am and it didn't do much better for him. He said he wondered if something was wrong with it but that it was close enough to kill a deer so he didn't seem that worried about it.
Granted, you're close enough to land a bullet in the vitals. If that's all your concerned with, then worry no more and leave it as is.

hometheaterman
November 11, 2009, 09:50 PM
What do you mean make sure the rear ring is centered properly? I had the gunsmith at the shop install the scope and bore sight it in those rings. He used the ring adjustment I think. That's when I first bought the rifle. I've since changed scopes but never touched that adjustment on the rings. I have no idea really how it even works.

I will have to try some 180 grain bullets.

Honestly, I want this thing to shoot great but at the same time it is a hunting rifle and that's what I bought it for so I guess it's fine as long as it does that without any problems. I just like everything perfect so I'd like to shoot great not just good enough.

andrewstorm
November 12, 2009, 01:48 AM
Ive heard that bars in 308 win like hornady custom,rem corloct, and lake city 7.62x51 ammo.j.b.was the man.

jgcoastie
November 12, 2009, 07:13 PM
What do you mean make sure the rear ring is centered properly? I had the gunsmith at the shop install the scope and bore sight it in those rings. He used the ring adjustment I think. That's when I first bought the rifle. I've since changed scopes but never touched that adjustment on the rings. I have no idea really how it even works.

I'd check to be sure, I'll post a picture or two to help you through the process.

If the rear ring isn't centered properly, then every time the gun recoils, your scope is getting beaten up by the rings as it won't be making full contact with either ring.

You'll see what I mean later on tonight, I'll try to get some pics up after supper.

joeb
November 12, 2009, 07:34 PM
A very nice looking rifle you have there.

landcruzr
November 12, 2009, 09:53 PM
Have you given the barrel a REAL GOOD cleaning?
Sometimes the simplest things are overlooked

jakec2789
November 12, 2009, 10:24 PM
how tight is the ejector? i wonder if you are having issues with the round seating in the chamber every time the rifle cycles.

hometheaterman
November 12, 2009, 11:20 PM
Yes the barrel is super clean. I've given the barrel a great cleaning. Not the gas ports and what not but the barrel is super clean. The rest I just sprayed down and it looks clean enough.

What do you mean by checking the ejector to see if it's tight? How would one go about doing this?

As for the rings I'm curious to see the picture as I don't really understand what you are talking about right now?

BusGunner007
November 13, 2009, 12:35 AM
180-gr.

OR

220-gr.


If you haven't tried these yet, you ARE wasting ammo. :eek:
Try them and come back with a thread like this one with the pictures.
Nice rifle and scope --- probably just the wrong weight projectile in the combination.
I really want to see you get this dialed in!
:)