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View Full Version : Rare find! I think?


msta999
November 8, 2009, 02:37 AM
Here is another rifle I'm cleaning up for a retired friend of mine and when I looked up the Ser no, said it was made in 1919. This is a Winchester, model 1894. Looks to be in pretty good condition. What I saw said it was worth between 300 to 600, just depending. I would like to know what others think the value might be, so I can let him know. he hasn't said anything about selling, this is just info for him.


http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/75/l_919c3331458e4d76b5157906034ed423.jpg

http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/48/l_dfa1409035e147bbb59b3c200e95aeb9.jpg

http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/100/l_262f9d77107144ad98667bfa6ba5c476.jpg

http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/67/l_0245cb13502141698233904fefc0142d.jpg

http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/98/l_da807687cf6e4a9aa4510551794b2b93.jpg

http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/102/l_3a78ddddfbab44e6ae6c1a1e602b2206.jpg

msta999
November 8, 2009, 03:11 AM
After cleaning this rifle, the action is sticky. I have soaked it with breakfree and even try'd some grease, but it is still a little hard to work the action. Any ideas?

Uncle Buck
November 8, 2009, 09:02 AM
If you are cleaning it up to shoot, then I would use a wire wheel and run the parts over it, put it back together with a bit of gun grease. Worked for me. But I was told most of these model 1894's had a "sticky" action. Mine was like that.

BUT, if you are restoring the gun for preservation purposes, then be very careful and do not use the wire wheel. It will leave some scratch marks on the steel. (maybe a copper or bronze wire wheel, if they make such a thing?)

Nice looking rifle. My rifles are used to hunt and shoot, I am not big into the "What's it worth" thing with my guns. They all, mostly, look like they have been shot. They are kept cleaned and oiled.

msta999
November 8, 2009, 02:54 PM
Thanks Buck,
I am just trying to let the guy know what he has. I was shocked when I seen the date it was made. I'm not a gun expert, so I hoped someone on here could tell me if I am in the ball park as far as price. I was going to see if he would sell it, but I don't want to cheat him or over pay for it. The age also has me a little concerned, if it will be a good shooter, or will it just be too old to shoot much. I was thinking it would be a good brush gun.

cornbush
November 8, 2009, 04:38 PM
What does the bore look like, frosty, dark? The action may be able to work a little more freely with a teflon lube. Locally I have seen similar rifles go for close to $1,000. If it is in good shape I would have no worries about shooting it.

msta999
November 8, 2009, 04:49 PM
Thanks cornbush,
the bore is nice and shinny, I opened the chamber and put a white cleaning cloth in it, then used a light to reflect up the bore and it looks nice and bright. A lot of the bluing around the sides of the chamber, looks like it is mostly worn off, but above and below looks good.

ChiefMuzz
November 8, 2009, 04:50 PM
I know my father has one in very good condition that he has had forever. He took it to a shop a couple years ago to get a new scope on it. The owner offered him $1,000 for and even offered him a straight up trade for a $2,000 knife that my father has wanted for a long time. My father was tempted but he was the original owner of the rifle and wants it to stay that way.

Bill DeShivs
November 8, 2009, 06:41 PM
Please don't put a wire wheel anywhere near that gun!
You will ruin any value it has, except for a shooter.

jhenry
November 8, 2009, 07:21 PM
Well, the saddle ring is missing, but that can be rectified. Bill is 100% correct. Keep anything resembling a wire wheel or any other powered contraption far away from that rifle. As long as it is functioning properly, I would not do anything to the action but lube it.

olyinaz
November 8, 2009, 07:24 PM
>>>Please don't put a wire wheel anywhere near that gun!
You will ruin any value it has, except for a shooter.<<<

I think that the guy who suggested the wire wheel was pretty clear about that:

"If you are cleaning it up to shoot, then I would use a wire wheel and run the parts over it, put it back together with a bit of gun grease...BUT, if you are restoring the gun for preservation purposes, then be very careful and do not use the wire wheel."

The only thing I'd add is that an original gun like this, provided it's not been buggered previously, is always a collectible piece if for no other reason than it's age. So take care for Heaven's sake! Shooters are easy to come by but antique rifles in great shape with good rifling are most certainly not.

Best,
Oly

Malamute
November 8, 2009, 08:46 PM
I'll 3rd or 4th the sentiment of keeping a wire wheel away from the gun for any reason. It's worth more as a brown gun than a cleaned up gun, unless done by a professional. If you are "cleaning it up" for him, you shouldnt do much more than regular solvent in the bore and action, and outsides. If it has some minor rust spots, some bronze wool and good oil is all that should be used. 4-0 (0000) steel wool and oil could be used, but the bronze wool is safer. The sticky action may be old dried oil in the action. A few toothbrushing treatments of Hoppes No 9 solvent may loosen up the crud in the rails and smooth it up some. I would strongly reccomend against taking it apart, particulary the cartridge guides. It simply isnt neccesary to take apart a Winchester to clean it, and the chance up buggering up screw heads or losing a small screw isnt worth it for the most part.

Even with the out of focus pictures, it looks like this gun is in decent condition. The wood isnt beat, and it has a fair amount of blue on most metal. Its common, even on rather high percentage condition guns for the receiver to silver out long before the other parts do.

Most of the early type carbines I've seen for sale have been in the $600 to $1200 range, depending on condition. Even a pretty well worn, original condition (no wire wheels ever came near them) gun will bring the lower figure for an early type, commonly called a "Saddle Ring Carbine" or SRC. This gun would probably bring towards the mid to higher end of the price range. Clear pics would help tho.

If the gun is basically sound it should be safe to shoot with factory or equivalent ammo. All the 1894's in 30 WCF (30-30) were made with decent steel and are up to factory level loads. The primers may back out slightly, this isnt uncommon, and doesnt cause any problems if it isnt excessive. They can do it even with headspace in spec, but slightly out of spec isnt going to cause any trauma. The round doesnt consistantly generate enough pressure to push the shell head back against the bolt face to reseat the primer. Read P O Ackleys experiments with Winchester 94's if you get the chance.

If you get a saddle ring for it (Winchester called them "sling rings" back in the day) you need the older type, which is about a 1/4" shank size. The later cosmetic saddle rings used on commemoratives and recent guns are a much smaller shank size. Several Winchester parts guys have the rings and studs available.

msta999
June 20, 2010, 02:17 AM
I was helping my friend out and bought him one of those lift chairs and some other stuff and he said his only family is his brother, who doesn't have any use for this 1894. Told me he wanted me to have it. I got some brass from another friend, loaded them up and now can't wait to get out to shoot it. Seems even nicer, now that it is mine :D

I did tell him it may be worth 600-800.00. He said that was ok. He is kind of like a grandfather to me. Him and my Grandmother were together over 20 years, after Grandpa died. Just wanted everyone to know, I didn't take advantage of him, we have been friends since 1988.

geetarman
June 20, 2010, 07:48 AM
Enjoy the rifle and the memories it brings you.

Geetarman:D

Winchester_73
June 22, 2010, 10:53 AM
The gun's value cannot fairly be estimated without knowing the caliber. 1894s were made in 30 WCF (most common), 32 WS (2nd most common), 32-40, 38-55 and the rarest, 25-35. If it happens to be a 25-35, its rare and is worth more than $600 as is whereas a 30 WCF might only be worth $600 or so.

Also, DO NOT wire brush the gun as others have said. Use solvents and oils and try repeatedly working the action to loosen it up. It could be a really good gun and a brush would ruin its value. Theres no point to using a brush because theres no point to hunting or target shooting with it. Get a post 64 gun for hunting. Thi

madcratebuilder
June 23, 2010, 06:44 AM
I did tell him it may be worth 600-800.00. He said that was ok. He is kind of like a grandfather to me. Him and my Grandmother were together over 20 years, after Grandpa died. Just wanted everyone to know, I didn't take advantage of him, we have been friends since 1988.

Hang on to that rifle no matter what. When you get to be old if you well cherish the memories. I regret letting a few things go in my twenties and thirties that I should have held on to.

Malamute
June 23, 2010, 10:02 PM
Cool for you friend!

You have a very nice example of an early type carbine, commonly called a saddle ring carbine (SRC). The only thing missing is the saddle ring, (called a sling ring by Winchester). I don't care for them clanging around against the gun, but if you want one, I have the contact info of a guy that has excellent quality copies available. He's at the Cody Winchester Antique gun shows with parts every year.

msta999
June 24, 2010, 04:57 PM
Thanks everyone, I've been trying to decide if I should even fire it....I have lots of time to decide :)

I did find a saddle ring at the local gun show, so the rifle is complete. Not planning on ever getting rid of it, I really like it. The old man, who gave it to me is kind of like a grandfather, Grandma liked them younger men ;-). He is 82 now, grandma would have been 101 this year.

TX Hunter
June 24, 2010, 08:24 PM
It would not hurt a thing to fire it. It has more than likely been fired before.
Its not New in Box. Enjoy.
I have old Military Rifles, and enjoy shooting them.

otay250
October 6, 2010, 07:52 AM
I have a chance to buy or trade for an 1894 that is 75 to 80% overall. saddle ring flip site all good action is excellent. serial number 179452. can anyone date this rifle with that number?

Buzzcook
October 6, 2010, 02:28 PM
otay250 it seems to be 1899.

http://oldguns.net/sn_php/winmods.htm

publius
October 6, 2010, 04:10 PM
Nice rifle, looks like it has plenty of honest use but not abuse. Kinda hard to tell from your pics though:D. I would hose the action down with Kroil and work it.