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shuppr
November 6, 2009, 11:32 AM
I am fairly new to reloading have been buying bullets at various places however have only reloaded one caliber so far that is 30 Carbine 110grn jacketed bullet using H110 14 grains works very well. Also Lead 115 grain using H110 at 12grns again works well. I am in the beginning stages of casting my own bullets but do not have a sizer/lubricater the molds I have are

Lee 2-Cavity Bullet Mold 358-158-RF 38 Special, 357 Magnum, 38 Colt New Police (358 Diameter) 158 Grain Flat Nose

Lee 2-Cavity Bullet Mold 401-175-TC 40 S&W (401 Diameter) 175 Grain Truncated Cone
I have searched all the forums read the Lee manual read Lyman 49th edition So my question is Can I pan lube these bullets made from these Molds and if so what lube would be recommended.

Thanks

Unclenick
November 6, 2009, 12:33 PM
Welcome to the forum.

Yes. There's another shortcut, and that's the Lee Liquid Alox lube. It is made for their tumble lube design and coats the bullets rather than filling the lube grooves. Even though that is meant to work only with the numerous small grooves of their Tumble Lube designs, everyone reports that it works well on standard shapes. At least, it does if they aren't driven too hard. White Label Xlox is the same thing. Less expensive, but you have to purchase a larger quantity.

For sizing, the Lee press-mounted sizers work fine and are inexpensive. Lube first, run through one of those, then put a second coat on. If the bullet size as-cast fits in your gun OK, then you may find you do better, from an accuracy standpoint, not to size them at all.

shuppr
November 6, 2009, 01:59 PM
Thank you so much for the info I wasn't sure if the Liquid Alox would work on those types of bullets or not. I can now get to work casting.

rbf420
November 6, 2009, 02:50 PM
personally, i hate liquid alox. i have found that doing it just once wasnt enough, that i would have to coat it agian, which is impossible if your lubing some 300 bullets... not to mention that the liquid alox will then get into ur dies, while cleaning those dies isnt hard at all you still have to take it apart and then figure out where your settings were. i have never tried pan lubing, i would suspect that its in the cost/effiency range in the middle of liquid alox and getting a lubrisizer. the lubrisizers like lyman 4500 are expensive but personally worth it. but either way good luck!

lee n. field
November 6, 2009, 03:00 PM
Can I pan lube these bullets made from these Molds and if so what lube would be recommended.


Yes.

I use Rooster Jacket (http://www.roosterlabs.com/products.html). Lee Liquid Alox is messy.

Lee 2-Cavity Bullet Mold 401-175-TC 40 S&W (401 Diameter) 175 Grain Truncated Cone

I use that all the time.

shuppr
November 6, 2009, 03:57 PM
Thanks for all the information I will put it to good use but will have to wait on a lubrisizer as funds are a little short. However I still have a bunch of bought lead bullets to reload.

*Freedom is not Free*

Ivan
November 6, 2009, 04:19 PM
If you are going to get a Lubrisizer, get a heater with it. You will need one eventually. Even if the lube says it will work without a heater, it will work better with a heater.

BTW, they take pretty much forever to heat up but work pretty good when warm. (I use a Lyman version.)

BTW, when using Lee Liquid Alox, I just keep one container for lubing bullets. I use cheap chopsticks (disposables from restaurants but new of course) to pick up the bullets and stand them on their bases to dry. Works well enough for the BP rifle bullets I cast.

Good Luck.
- Ivan.

Crosshair
November 6, 2009, 08:49 PM
I just tumble lube bullets, get an old jug with a screw top, toss in a mix of Vaseline, Johnson's paste wax, and a bit of Allox. Shake up until I get a good coating on everything, let it sit for a few minutes so it thickens a bit, then dump it out onto a pan outside and put a fan on it for a few days. (You don't need the fan, but they dry allot faster with one.)

Normally it is thick enough to get it in one go. I use the Lee size dies.

brentf
November 6, 2009, 09:58 PM
I use liquid alox, have had good results

IllinoisCoyoteHunter
November 6, 2009, 10:28 PM
LLA will work fine, but can gum up your bullet seating die. If you are serious about casting and want a cleaner finished product, then get a lubrisizer. Lyman, RCBS, Saeco, Star (Magma Engineering) are all great lubrisizers. If you have the $$ in the budget, I would recommend the Star.

shuppr
November 7, 2009, 01:16 AM
Thanks all lookslike it will be LLA until get lubrisizer to do it right and the lee sizing dies but now have another question.

Casting ones own bullets how do you get the imputities out of the lead wheel weights when melted down what do you use?

Thanks
_________________
*Freedom is not Free*

IllinoisCoyoteHunter
November 7, 2009, 09:21 AM
You need to flux the metal to help "clean" it. Fluxing helps return good things into the alloy, thus leaving the bad stuff (dirt) floating alone on top. Pretty much anything works for fluxing. Most common, chunks of wax from candles, a dry wood stick is my method (it must be dry), or even expensive fluxing compound. Stick bullet lube can be used too, but don't use your liquid alox.

Edward429451
November 7, 2009, 09:47 AM
A dry wood stick? Like a paint stirrer or shim? Whoa. Does it work well? Tell more!

Lubing., I remember casting with my dad when we were young and it must have been before he got a luber/sizer. What we did was to use grease pencils and fill the groove with black grease.

I've always wondered if we were alone on this or if it was a kosher idea. Anyone?

Rusty W
November 7, 2009, 10:27 AM
For more information you can read in a week try these guys http://castboolits.gunloads.com/ They really know their stuff. I've been using the Lee Method for about 3 years and cast for 4 pistol cartridges and 3 rifle cartridges. I mix the LLA with Johnson Paste Wax 50/50 and it seems to dry better and not as sticky as just plain LLA. I use wheel weights a lot and smelt them in a cast iron pot. I flux with whatever I have. Most of the time I use wax from an old candle. I've been using saw dust recently and it seems to do pretty good too. I remove the clips and trash from the top and pour ingots in muffin tins. That way when I'm ready to cast bullets I don't get my pot all trashed up with the mess from the WW. I've been thinking about getting a Lyman or Star but for no more than I shoot and the start up money it's gonna take the Lee system is working well for me. Here's one more link to a website that I refer too about casting. There's a lot of info here to http://www.lasc.us/

IllinoisCoyoteHunter
November 7, 2009, 11:07 AM
Painter stirring stick would work fine. Really any wood, so long it is dry, will work great.

Pathfinder45
November 7, 2009, 02:07 PM
.......Sizing? Forget about it. You have Lee moulds so you shoot them as cast. However they need to be lubed. Pan lube them and cut the cooled bullets out of the lube using a fired and expanded case with the crimp removed and the primer hole drilled out so you can push the lubed bullet out with an allen wrench or whatever. Oh, yeah, what if you can't find real bullet lube? Toilet-bowl sealing-wax rings work wonderfully. It's what I use all the time. Simple survivalist techniques, guys. Best all-around bullet for .45 Colt? I use a Lee 255 grain RNFP mould ;)and good-old wheel weights.

trip_sticker
November 7, 2009, 02:44 PM
When using the Lee sizer, the directions say to lube the bullet prior to sizing. How do you guys keep the lube out of the base where the gas check goes?

Crosshair
November 7, 2009, 04:15 PM
How do you guys keep the lube out of the base where the gas check goes?
You don't. I lube them, snap on the gas check, and run them through the sizer.

trip_sticker
November 7, 2009, 04:43 PM
Quote:
How do you guys keep the lube out of the base where the gas check goes?

You don't. I lube them, snap on the gas check, and run them through the sizer.

No problem then with lube being under the gas check and having it fall off? I'm just wondering because I saw a nice mold I want but it is a GC mold.

snuffy
November 8, 2009, 01:25 AM
Lots of questions!

If you want to size first, then lube, take some dishwashing detergent like dawn, or joy. Mix it about half/half with water. Dip the bullets in that, it'll be enough lubricant to ease the bullet through. Just rinse in straight water, then lube.

If I want to tumble lube for auto bullets, I tumble lube first, then size IF needed. Only the tumble lube designs don't need sizing, The regular lube groove bullets usually drop too large to be shot as-cast.

Here's another option;

http://photos.imageevent.com/jptowns/arrow/websize/P2220036.JPG

http://photos.imageevent.com/jptowns/arrow/websize/P2220037.JPG

Those are 100 grain .308 round nose for my 7.62 X 25 tok. They were dipped up to the top driving band in LLA. Then placed on the cardboard. Then moved once, then sized in a lee push-through sizer. Labor intensive? Yes, but it gets the job done AND it leaves the nose clean so as not to mess up the seater die.

Another trick; If you're in a hurry to lube & load, put freshly tumble lubed bullets in the oven @ 150 degrees for an hour, they come out nice and dry and less tacky than air dried.

When using the Lee sizer, the directions say to lube the bullet prior to sizing. How do you guys keep the lube out of the base where the gas check goes?

You don't. I lube them, snap on the gas check, and run them through the sizer.

I would want the gas check on the bullet BEFORE lubing. I don't like the idea of any kind of lube between the bullet shank and the gas check. IF you could guarantee an even coat of LLA, it wouldn't hurt, but the very nature of LLA is far from a uniform coating.

If you are going to get a Lubrisizer, get a heater with it. You will need one eventually. Even if the lube says it will work without a heater, it will work better with a heater.


Yeah a heater is useful if you're going to be outside in a shed or garage. Especially with a wax based hard lube. I work inside and use only NRA formula alox/beeswax, it flows well even down to 60 deg, no heater used or needed.

Crosshair
November 8, 2009, 01:51 AM
No problem then with lube being under the gas check and having it fall off? I'm just wondering because I saw a nice mold I want but it is a GC mold.
The gas checks are crimped on when they pass through the sizer. They aint coming off.

http://www.hornady.com/shop/shop_image/product/category_gas_checks.jpg

Worrying about them falling off after sizing is like worrying about the wheels coming off your car after the lug nuts have been properly torqued.

I've never had a problem with the bullets made this way. I've loaded 30 cal cast bullets with gas checks in 30 carbine, 30-30, and .308 and all shoot fine with no ill effect. The gas check stays on snug from breech to backstop.

If you don't want to use this method then feel free to spend the money on a lubesizer. I've never owned one and never plan to. Tumble lubing and Lee Size dies for me.

trip_sticker
November 8, 2009, 08:32 AM
One of the bullets I want to cast in the near future is for my 30-30. I currently only own the Lee TL-358-158 SWC mold and a round ball mold for my 50 cal.

Which mold have you had success with making 30-30's? Can you share the load data on here? I currently load the jacketed 150 gr round nose soft point. I'd like a cast bullet of similiar design (round nose) if it is made?

Crosshair
November 8, 2009, 09:59 AM
I use the Lee 90366 C309-150-F mold with a gas check. Some people get better accuracy with the 90367 C309-160-R mold, but the 150 works fine for me.

USE LOAD DATA AT YOUR OWN RISK.

As for load data I use SR-4759 powder and 17.5 grains of it. Gets you around 1600 fps and nowhere close to MAP.

trip_sticker
November 8, 2009, 11:19 AM
Thanks for the info. I'll be using a differnt powder (I use IMR 3031) with factory bullets. I'll find that in the reloading manual before I start to work up a load.

Have you seen any problems or advantages with a FP over a RP bullet?

snuffy
November 8, 2009, 12:06 PM
The gas checks are crimped on when they pass through the sizer. They ain't coming off.

Not all gas checks crimp on. The Lyman's are more like brass and simply slip on the shank. Some have even gone as far as gluing those gas checks on to be sure they stay put.

The Hornady gas checks are SUPPOSED to crimp on. Some times they do sometimes they don't. IF the shank on the bullet is exactly the right size and IF the sizer is the right size, the gas check will crimp firmly to the shank. Introducing some lube under that gas check will help this? There's just no way a layer of lube is going to help it stay put.

max it
November 8, 2009, 12:27 PM
Hi Guys,

Since this seems to be close on to my interests I am posting here:

I have the Ideal 45 lubrisizer, how do I insert a new Alox block? No instructions with it. I screwed off the top but it didnt come out.

Second: I have several toilet bowl wax rings: what do i do to make them into lube?

Much obliged as always,

Max

Crosshair
November 8, 2009, 12:28 PM
Not all gas checks crimp on. The Lyman's are more like brass and simply slip on the shank. Some have even gone as far as gluing those gas checks on to be sure they stay put.

OK that's reasonable. Then let me say that my experience only applies to using Hornady gas checks then.

The Hornady gas checks are SUPPOSED to crimp on. Some times they do sometimes they don't.

They way I use them they stay on. It takes quite a bit of force to put that bullet through the Lee sizer and that pushes the GC on even tighter and forces out much of the lube.

IF the shank on the bullet is exactly the right size and IF the sizer is the right size, the gas check will crimp firmly to the shank.

If you use 30 caliber gas checks on a 30 caliber bullet and size them to 30 caliber you don't have problems. I've sized a few to .311/.312 for a fellow reloader to test in a 303 British and they still stayed on from what he said.

If the shank is the wrong size then you need to change casting alloys to have them drop the proper size or your mold is out of spec.

Introducing some lube under that gas check will help this? There's just no way a layer of lube is going to help it stay put.

Like I said, the crimp keeps it in place. Do I need to post a video of myself trying to remove the gas check with a pair of pliers before you believe me when I say THEY ARE NOT GOING ANYWHERE. The only way to get them off is to cut them off with a Dremel.

trip_sticker
November 8, 2009, 02:16 PM
Making a video of the gas check seating process would be great for those of us getting ready to undertake this ordeal for the first time.

snuffy
November 9, 2009, 02:16 AM
I have the Ideal 45 lubrisizer, how do I insert a new Alox block? No instructions with it. I screwed off the top but it didnt come out.


Mine is a 450 Lyman. On it, you turn the pressurizer shaft the opposite of the direction you turn it to pressurize the the lube chamber. On mine that would be clockwise. Turn it until the piston comes out of the top, then remove it. You need hollow sticks of lube to refill the chamber. Insert one then replace the piston, making sure the rubber "O" ring is not damaged. Then just turn the shaft counterclockwise to lower the piston, keep turning until it pressurizes the lube chamber.

Toilet bowl rings USED to be made of bees wax. They could be mixed with other waxes or grease to make bullet lube. Now a days, they're made of some synthetic crap, maybe they would work?

Rangefinder
November 9, 2009, 06:47 AM
^^Toilet bowl rings---I forgot all about those things! Now I'm gonna have to go look at an ingredient list next time I run to Ace...

Also try the health food and/or Natural food stores. They seem to carry beeswax is multiple forms all the time.

max it
November 9, 2009, 08:43 PM
Hi Ya Snuffy,

Right on about the 450. I tried unscrewing it before the Alox was used up. The piston came to the top but I was unable to pull it out. Maybe it will be easier when there is no Alox under it?

Toilet bowl rings: they are made of the gunk left in tankers when all the crude oil is drained out. Plain and simple. [ I was the mfrs rep for 'Gunk' and their guys told me]. Is it grease, nope, is it oil, I dont think so. Just like Jello is no longer a product of horses hoofs or cows stomachs or whatever.

Much obliged,

Max

Ivan
November 14, 2009, 09:19 PM
Toilet wax seals are much more tacky and less viscous than typical bullet lube. Has anyone actually tried them as bullet lube?

- Ivan.

Rangefinder
November 14, 2009, 09:34 PM
Max it is right---I took a look at a couple different brands the other day and they remind me of the sludge I clean off the stove after the fryer boils over and cooks on for a while---nasty stuff.

HOWEVER---eBay (as much as I hate supporting that left-coast company) has enough beeswax regularly for my formula to keep my bullets lubed for a few hundred years :D.

Pathfinder45
November 15, 2009, 03:57 AM
.....Like I said before, it's what I use. It's soft and sticky, perhaps a little messy but it works well even with Black-powder. The ones I use are yellow-brown wax. Comercially cast bullets use a harder, drier wax because it's less messy in that it doesn't pick up debris, ships neater and loads a lot easier and faster. No muss, no fuss. But when you pull the trigger the soft sticky is better especially so with black-powder.

Crosshair
November 15, 2009, 09:55 AM
Toilet wax seals are much more tacky and less viscous than typical bullet lube. Has anyone actually tried them as bullet lube?
I've tried it and didn't like it. It works, but I found that Vaseline and Johnson's paste wax is easier to work with. Though again, I tumble lube my bullets. It may be different if you are using a lubesizer.

GP100man
November 16, 2009, 09:38 PM
Warm ya bullets a little in the sun & put em in a bowel with some johnsons paste wax & see what happens , stand em up let em dry , load & shoot !!!!

I did with a Lyman 148gr. wc with 3.2 grs. red dot cci 500 primer in a 357 case shot 50 times & bore of my 6" GP 100 was shiney !!

I have a 158 swc TL mold I think i`ll pour some up & see how hard I can push em with 2400.

Then supplement the JPW with liquid mule snot (alox) & do it all over???:D:D

trip_sticker
November 17, 2009, 06:23 AM
Warm ya bullets a little in the sun & put em in a bowel :eek:with some johnsons paste wax & see what happens , stand em up let em dry , load & shoot !!!!

I did with a Lyman 148gr. wc with 3.2 grs. red dot cci 500 primer in a 357 case shot 50 times & bore of my 6" GP 100 was shiney !!

I have a 158 swc TL mold I think i`ll pour some up & see how hard I can push em with 2400.

Then supplement the JPW with liquid mule snot (alox) & do it all over???

I know that was a typo, but I couldn't resist! :D

IllinoisCoyoteHunter
November 17, 2009, 08:42 AM
Bowel lubing.... :D Grrrrooooossssssssssss!

jaguarxk120
November 17, 2009, 08:59 AM
If you go to the Lyman web site they have the instructions in a pdf file for downloading, explanes everything about the sizer/lubricator.

Always use NEW wax rings, much better that way.

max it
November 17, 2009, 11:21 AM
Recently I was told by a gunsmith that shiney bore is no mark of a clean barrel. More like clean sharp lands and grooves is the mark of a clean barrel. Shiney can be lead coated without noticing it. Comments?

as always, much obliged,

Max

p.s.- used wax rings! :barf:

GP100man
November 17, 2009, 01:07 PM
Smelly but cheaper!!!!LOL:p:p

& If ya wanna you can change colors!!!:D:D

Max it

BY shiney I refer to Clean& Shiney, I`ve seen what you are refering to but theres very little lead that`s left to produce those results.

trip_sticker
November 22, 2009, 12:11 AM
Anyone ever tried pure crayon as a lube? Seems like it would be waxy enough, shouldn't be too hard to melt it down and pan lube with it.

IllinoisCoyoteHunter
November 22, 2009, 01:06 AM
Probably won't have great luck using crayons alone. I would add some kind of lubricant, whether it is lanolin, JPW, or alox. Good for adding a little color, but not really as a lube alone. I have never tried it, though....so give it a whirl.

freakshow10mm
November 22, 2009, 01:41 AM
The proper way to lube cast bullets is use a Star sizer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCtLi8i7tMg

Rangefinder
November 22, 2009, 02:07 AM
Well, technically for a "lube", all you're doing is creating a barrier between to objects that will reduce friction. So, there is nothing I can think of with regard to a crayon that says it won't work. But I'm equally not going to say that it will work good. Something known for being able to sustain higher temperatures and pressured without breaking down and rendering itself ineffective would be a better choice over something known to produce pretty pictures among 5-year-olds---sarcasim not intended. Never know till you give it a shot---pun FULLY intended.

Unclenick
November 22, 2009, 06:00 PM
AFAIK, the crayon is just paraffin wax and coloring with some solids added for opacity. Should be somewhat less effective than plain paraffin, which vaporizes too easily, and a lot more expensive. I have heard of people melting a crayon in with their regular lube mix to give it some color for identification purposes, but not as a major component.

Spur0701
November 23, 2009, 02:28 AM
As mentioned above you should really spend some time over at Castboolits.com, a couple of hours reading over there will save you dozens of hours in your casting and reloading. I cast for mainly pistol, .38, 9mm, 45, 9mm MAK, and 40S&W. I've become more efficient as I've learned and picked up tips from the castboolit forums.

For pistol bullets I use only WW, they're hard enough. I use Lee 6 banger moulds and usually cast using two so that I keep production high....no wasted time waiting for your pour to cool....and I always "leement" my moulds (just some small modifications that make them work better....details at castboolits.com).

Some I can use as cast, some I have to size, you have to measure and test.....depends on the mould, alloy, and gun.

If I need to size, I dump a load into one of those large disposable tuberware containers and spay them with PAM, swirl around for a bit, wait a few minutes and size....this eliminates the need to tumble lube twice.

After sizing I dump in a colander and dunk in a sink full of soapy water to wash off the PAM.

I tumble lube with straight Johnson's Past Wax (JPW). I heat the boolits in a toaster oven for about 5-10 minutes set at about 180, dump them in a microwave safe bowl with a dollop of JPW and swirl around, then dump them on wax paper on a paper bag or news paper, let dry 24 hours and they're ready to use.

I usually do 500 or 1000 at a time. I've used LLA but it's kinda messy, takes longer to dry than JPW, and is way way more expensive. I've used this on micro groove tumble lube designs as well as traditional boolit designs that are meant for a lubrisizer....works fine on both.

I had gotten a used Lyman lubrisizer but don't even use it since tumble lubing with JPW is so efficient.....my understanding is a lot of the guys over castboolits don't even use their lubrizisers anymore or only use them for rifle boolits.

All my hand loads are more accurate than factory except for the 9mm and using surplus Russian salut ($11 a lb) are running me around .02 to .03 each...not counting labor of course.