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View Full Version : Better varmint gun


4winds
November 3, 2009, 10:56 PM
In a purely hunting situation, AR15 in 223 or a lightweight bolt like a cz 527 n 223 for coyotes?

hogdogs
November 3, 2009, 11:15 PM
The guys I know using the AR for 'yotes are super happy to be able to get that second shot off for the "texas heart shot" on those that opt to run.
Brent

Swampghost
November 3, 2009, 11:28 PM
Scroll down. On the lower right you'll see 'Archives', click. Type your keywords into the searchbar, click search. You'll find at least a days worth of info.

jimbob86
November 3, 2009, 11:34 PM
I don't know about the AR platform, but all my reloading manuals tell me to full length size for levers and semi-autos..... neck sizing is easier on brass, quicker, and is supposed to be more accurate.

As for follow-up shots..... practice working the bolt w/o taking the gun off your shoulder or removing your cheek from the stock. It is not signifigantly slower than a semi- it takes more time to get a good sight picture than it does to work the bolt....... but it does require that nasty P word: Practice.

4winds
November 3, 2009, 11:34 PM
If an AR15 is are the varmint version AR's going to have any real advantage over a "stock" AR?

And yes...I know what the archives are for, that is why I don't have may postings.;)

4winds
November 3, 2009, 11:43 PM
In the future I'll be heading down the reloading route. Not worried about follow up shots, I have been using a bolt action since...well lets just say a long time. I was more curious about the function of the weapon systems in terms of actually varmint hunting, forgive my generalities:o. with calling, using sticks, moving from spot to spot, etc. wouldn't a bolt action be more versatile, less cumbersome, more affordable and lighter to haul around? I see alot of folks using ARs on the web, just though I might be missing something?

trooper3385
November 4, 2009, 12:19 AM
The big advantage I would see that the AR would give you would be quicker follow up shots. Coyotes sometime come in pairs or groups. With a bolt action, your pretty much done for that session after dropping one. The AR would give you the chance of getting off another shot at the others. The AR's can be real accurate. But your heavy barrel AR varmint rigs can get pretty heavy. Same goes with bolt actions as well. Your probably not going to be doing much spot and stalk varmint hunting though. Weight shouldn't be much of an issue. Both should work fine. I think it's more of a personal preference than anything.

Swampghost
November 4, 2009, 12:42 AM
I'll yield a hair to the 'follow up shot' but not much. Thinking about it, most folks haven't been working a bolt for 50+ yrs. You can get pretty fast with experience and it's automatic, think 'quick draw'.

Make the first shot count and you won't need a second.

Dr. Strangelove
November 4, 2009, 01:43 AM
I'll yield a hair to the 'follow up shot' but not much. Thinking about it, most folks haven't been working a bolt for 50+ yrs. You can get pretty fast with experience and it's automatic, think 'quick draw'.

Make the first shot count and you won't need a second

Great post. Especially in a short action round like .223, follow-up shots are quick on a bolt gun with some practice. Nothing against the AR platform, but I like bolt guns.

Semi-auto is faster, but hunting isn't about laying down fire, it's about accurate shooting. Not that some folks aren't accurate at high rates of fire, but semi-autos tend to encourage "spray and pray".

Scorch
November 4, 2009, 02:12 AM
Having hunted coyotes quite a bit years ago, I can see some advantage to an AR. The main advantage I can think of in coyote hunting is there is less movement with an AR or any other semiauto because your hands don't move around to work a bolt. Most animals, and particularly predators, are very alert to movement. If you set up in a ground blind with a camo cover, not having to move to get off the second shot may very well net you more coyotes.

If you go flailing around in in the brush wearing a red shirt and jeans, laughing and walking around, it won't make any difference anyway.

And I would match my AR against just about any bolt action for accuracy. A good scope, good fire discipline, and look out.

4winds
November 4, 2009, 10:53 AM
Limiting movement would make sense. HMMMMMMmmmm. Have any of yall started out in a bolt and went to the AR or vice versa. Being a longer in the tooth, Ive really ratcheted my comfort level up as a top priority.:D

hogdogs
November 4, 2009, 11:12 AM
4winds, PM sent to ya'...
Brent

4winds
November 4, 2009, 03:36 PM
Thanks HogDogs, I'll check it out!

Art Eatman
November 4, 2009, 06:53 PM
I've messed with ARs a good bit, but I prefer a bolt-action. And, so far, I've yet to need more than one shot on Ol' Wily.

ZeroJunk
November 4, 2009, 07:00 PM
I know that wild animals are unpredictable, but if you just fired a high powered rifle at one I don't know that I would expect the movement of the bolt to add much more to the flight.

Dave R
November 4, 2009, 11:32 PM
Have any of yall started out in a bolt and went to the AR or vice versa. I don't hunt 'yotes, but I do a fair amount of varmit hunting. I hunt with a buddy who uses an AR. Varmit hunting can enourage long shots, and I have wounded a few varmits that made me wish for a faster follow-up shot. My buddy has made some fast follow-ups that anchored a few varmits that might have suffered. So I bought an AR. Have not had a chance to use it in the field. Ask me next season.

Saguaro Firearms
November 5, 2009, 12:20 AM
here in az around my area its so much easier with an ar if you get more than one dog in to get a second shot off

UniversalFrost
November 5, 2009, 10:02 AM
i liked my bushmaster varminter, but was big and heavy, but very accurate.

my 700 VSSF in 22-250 is my main goto yote killer.

for a lightweight setup i like an encore with an 18" barrel in .223 or .220 swift

as far as second shots if you have a good bolt gun and have multiple yotes show up with enough practice you can bag them, just might have to hit them on the run.

I took 3 yotes in succesion recently. all 3 showed up within feet of each other. I dropped the first one, the other two scattered, but got another while he was running away (straight away from me) and then bagged the third when I hit the pup in distress call and got him to stop in his tracks and look back(I lazed him at 398 and wind was only 5mph in my face so real easy shot).

wyobohunter
November 5, 2009, 12:42 PM
My single shot works for me. I'd go with the bolt gun if you are going to reload. If you live/hunt in wide open country the bolt gun should allow plenty of time for a follow up. Just shoot the yote that is farthest away first. I think movement is a non-issue, after any yote hears the first shot he'll be runnin'.

brentf
November 7, 2009, 03:37 PM
my preference is for the bolt gun, make the first one count

jdscholer
November 8, 2009, 03:25 PM
So far, all I've used to dump around a hundred coyotes is my bolt actions and pump shotgun. (I usually pack them both to my stands)

I just bought the latest issue of "Predator X'treme" Magazine and it looks like the AR platform is now very popular. I've never used or carried one, so I'm clueless as to the weight, comfort, convenience of the style. I'd surely want to handle one quite a bit before I laid out the bucks for a gun that might not fit my style of carry.

I have shot at the rear ends of enough escaping coyotes to know that a low recoil, semi-auto would probably get a higher percentage of kills than my bolt action.

When I'm walking a half mile back to my rig with a rifle, a shotgun, and a dead coyote, it's VERY Important to me how the weapon carries on a sling.

I'm getting kind of lazy about carrying both guns, and paid for it on my last trip. There were two dogs that would have become pelts if I had been holding my shotgun ready in my hands. There ARE times when a split second makes a big difference. jd