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View Full Version : Just bought L85!!


Firepower!
November 2, 2009, 05:12 AM
I am excited that I just bought L85. I will post pictures soon.

I have been after this weapon for a while now.

p99guy
November 2, 2009, 09:55 AM
Congrats on getting one! The only ones here in the U.S. are "Post May 1986 Dealer Samples"....and darn few of those.

gyvel
November 5, 2009, 05:19 AM
WOW! I thought I was doing good by finding an L1A1. Congrats!

Willie Lowman
November 7, 2009, 11:21 AM
Come on, Firepower!

Pics or it didn't happen! :)

Firepower!
November 7, 2009, 12:18 PM
Thanks P99guy and gyel!

Here you go Willie...I was waiting for better time of the day to take pictures but since you insisted:

http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo128/Firepower1/IMGP2975.jpg

http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo128/Firepower1/IMGP2973.jpg

http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo128/Firepower1/IMGP2974.jpg

http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo128/Firepower1/IMGP2976.jpg

Total cost was about: US$12,500

Silvanus
November 7, 2009, 02:36 PM
Wow, nice find! I wonder where that rifle came from... Is it the H&K modified version or an early model?

p99guy
November 7, 2009, 06:01 PM
it looks like it has the updates

shooter_from_show-me
November 7, 2009, 06:20 PM
What's it chambered in 5.56 NATO?:confused:

M4Sherman
November 7, 2009, 08:24 PM
I wish we had one in the US. and yes 5.56 and it supposedly shoots like a lazer

B. Lahey
November 7, 2009, 08:36 PM
Nice, I've always wanted one of those.

There is supposedly a project in the works to make semi-autos for the US market. Unfortunately, it's a Charles Daly import/build deal, so who knows if they will be worth a damn. Sounds like something that will take a few revisions to get right anyway, so it will probably be at least a decade before we have a functional semi-auto L85ish rifle, if it happens at all.:(

Firepower!
November 7, 2009, 08:39 PM
Yes it has the updates. It is L85 A2. It is chambered in 5.56.

Willie Lowman
November 8, 2009, 11:39 AM
Very nice. Have you had a chance to fire it yet?

Firepower!
November 8, 2009, 01:22 PM
Just a test fire magazine. Did not go to my private range where I fire automatic weapons.

Piper Cub
November 8, 2009, 03:13 PM
Very impressive Fire power. You are living up to your handle.

Drummer101
November 8, 2009, 03:49 PM
Just a test fire magazine. Did not go to my private range where I fire automatic weapons.

I just saw you location :rolleyes: :o

It is a nice rifle :)

p99guy
November 8, 2009, 04:39 PM
I wonder what the story on your rifle is...as in how did it find its self not in British Military ownership. ( every gun has a story, they just arent good at telling us lol)

Firepower!
November 8, 2009, 09:13 PM
Thanks Piper C.

Well guns tend not to tell stories. It probably made its way to tribal area through Afghanistan or part of the aid package to equip the tribals against extremists. I really dont know.

I wanted one for a while and paid heavily for the gun and the automatic license for it and for its registeration.

Firepower!
November 10, 2009, 12:13 AM
Last night I could not sleep so I decided to strip down my 85a2 and clean it. Let me tell you how much I appreciated my AKs and M4s after this. Very complicated weapon. You have to do everything carefully or the job get longer and longer. What surprised me is that VERY little information on field stripping was available on net. I found one British Army PDF file which was apparantly a scanned copy from somewhere else. It was very general and lacking information for serious folks.

What are you experiences specially regarding the trigger assembly? And do you have any detailed manuals on this baby?

Thanks.

DRice.72
November 10, 2009, 07:39 AM
Beautiful! Congrats!

B. Lahey
November 10, 2009, 11:38 PM
Small Arms Review to the rescue. The field-stripping and maintenance guide starts on page 9 of this PDF:

http://www.smallarmsreview.com/pdf/sa80.pdf

Firepower!
November 11, 2009, 12:00 AM
This is the one I have. I was looking for something more elaborate. Thanks.

p99guy
November 11, 2009, 03:39 AM
I would buy a copy of Collector Grade Publications, "The Last Enfield" it is the complete story of your rifle.

B. Lahey
November 15, 2009, 05:57 AM
Here's a field-manual for sale. It's in spanish.

https://secure.longmountain.com/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=532&osCsid=ac0166ec78c5c26e0f552de8121f43fb

Here's the book p99 mentioned:

https://secure.longmountain.com/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=304&osCsid=07caa29cb3f63087c44292569f949179

One manual was marked RESTRICTED at least as late as '96. Spoilsports.

http://www.project-x.org.uk/images/picsa80man90s.jpg

More random info:

http://www.project-x.org.uk/sa80.html

Firepower!
November 15, 2009, 10:47 AM
Thank you for the help.

B. Lahey
November 18, 2009, 05:24 AM
Another manual for sale. This one's even in english.

http://cgi.ebay.com/SA80-LSW-Operating-information-SA-80-sa80_W0QQitemZ380145524425QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Collectables_Militaria_LE?hash=item5882705ec9

Looks like a copy of the RESTRICTED one, without the cover page...

ex brit squaddie
November 27, 2009, 03:21 PM
well done on your purchase, you can tell if its a mk2 because it will have h&k stamped on it.

Firepower!
December 2, 2009, 05:22 AM
I just wanted to share with you guys the trigger on this rifle. Despite being a bullpup the trigger on L85A2 is VERY smooth. I would like to know your thoughts on this matter if you have ever used this weapon.

Firepower!
May 11, 2010, 04:09 PM
Here is a better picture of my L85A2:

http://i843.photobucket.com/albums/zz360/thefirepower/05052010102.jpg

PTK
May 11, 2010, 05:44 PM
I've always had a fondness for those rifles. If only they were not so temperamental at times.

Thanks for sharing a good picture!

guyrichards
May 21, 2010, 04:13 AM
Hi All,
Am i the only person who finds the fact that this rifle is in civillian hands in pakistan slightly worrying? Think about it, no L85A2's have been supplied as arms to Tribal group's so that theory is out of the window.... I would summise that it has been lost in combat by a british soldier (fate of soldier unknown) and stands a good chance of having been captured by the Taliban and sold to an arms dealer in Pakistan.

Being as i am English i find the thought of a British soldiers weapon being sold and then paraded around the internet as a little untasteful.

Sorry if i offend anyone with this post but in essence what the purchaser has done is support the Taliban's war effort..... in an indirect way.


thanks

Biped
May 21, 2010, 04:29 AM
I'd like to echo Guy Richards.

There are no commercial L85 rifles available on the open market.

This being the case, the rifle you have is a stolen British military rifle.

Albeit you may not wish to return this product, are you able to pass on the details of the vendor?

sid10101
May 21, 2010, 04:40 AM
Whats the serial number? Might be able to track down some of its history from my armourer. :eek:

Any reason its cocked there?

northernmercury
May 21, 2010, 06:19 AM
definitly an interesting looking rifle - can you tell us anything more about it firepower?

Drummer101
May 21, 2010, 10:59 AM
Hi All,
Am i the only person who finds the fact that this rifle is in civillian hands in pakistan slightly worrying? Think about it, no L85A2's have been supplied as arms to Tribal group's so that theory is out of the window.... I would summise that it has been lost in combat by a british soldier (fate of soldier unknown) and stands a good chance of having been captured by the Taliban and sold to an arms dealer in Pakistan.

Being as i am English i find the thought of a British soldiers weapon being sold and then paraded around the internet as a little untasteful.

Sorry if i offend anyone with this post but in essence what the purchaser has done is support the Taliban's war effort..... in an indirect way.


thanks

Not to be bashing (I am also English) but weapons taken in war I thought were fair game. What about the soldiers in WWll who took weapons home? Even the families in other countries asked for them back and they are not required to give them back. War works both ways. But that is not the point, I would not think this particular firearms was acquired by devious means but fully legal.

Not everyone in Pakistan is a terrorist, some just like firearms.

Firepower!
May 21, 2010, 10:59 AM
The rifle is bought and properly registered. The person registering this weapon is duly authorized by the government. I am not a supporter of any rogue element- just an enthusiast like rest of the guys here. Buying a product off the shelf may contribute to people or companies that one may not like or not know.

I didnot want to offend anyone.

Anyway I get enough hate PMs from members here that I have decided to quit TFL.

Good bye fellas and good luck.

Firepower

B. Lahey
May 21, 2010, 11:22 AM
Think about it, no L85A2's have been supplied as arms to Tribal group's so that theory is out of the window

Just because England has never admitted to supplying arms to friendly or neutral groups in central asia doesn't mean it hasn't happened.:)

The brits are like every other nation. Sometimes their military aid is above-board and recognized, sometimes... it's not.

Drummer101
May 21, 2010, 11:43 AM
That is a real shame, I would hope you would change your mind.

Hope the best for ya.

Rob

Ducatist4
May 21, 2010, 12:13 PM
Producation of the L85A1 ended in 1994, the upgrade programme ran from 2000 to 2002 to turn it into the L85A2 (of which this rifle is one).
The rifle was an export failure with the only overseas customer being the Jamaica Defence Force and Zimbabwe and i think they only have the A1 version.

If the British Government had supplied them to anyone else wouldn't you think that pictures or information would have appeared in the public domain by now?

This rifle must either be a battle field find or possibly stolen.

If it is all above board as the owner suggests then i suggest that he should be more than happy to post the serial number up.

Austin Cowart
May 21, 2010, 12:29 PM
I love it when smug jerks make their first post one that totally shows their A#@! Ducatist4, Firepower has been on this form for a good while and is a collector of rare firearms IN PAKISTAN!!!!!!! Jesus!!! maybe if you trolled around a bit longer you would see is very impressive collection of full autos. :barf: OH WELCOME TO THE FORUMS!

Willie Lowman
May 21, 2010, 01:04 PM
Anyway I get enough hate PMs from members here that I have decided to quit TFL.

Well that's bad news.


Congratulations, jackasses. You have run off one of the most interesting members of this board.

sid10101
May 21, 2010, 01:07 PM
Were not trolling here.
Just would like its serial number.
So we can find out if it was stolen or lost in combat.
We are not asking for the thing back. To be honest, my Royal Military Police friend would like to know. to see if we have an armourer selling rifles.. which the RMP are very interested in.
The A2 has never been sold to the public. As it was an upgrade on the A1.

And we have enough of our own 'full autos' infact, i have an armoury full about 100m away from me. Want some pics of the new gpmgs we just got in, not a round through them, except the proof round, gun **** :P

Humm, abit funny he runs away after someone asks where the gat comes from dont you think?

Ducatist4
May 21, 2010, 01:08 PM
We'd just like to know the history of this particular rifle as I've already said, the A2 version has only ever been used by the British Army.
Its quite possible that this has come onto the market via a route that may actually be directly funding the Taliban.

B. Lahey
May 21, 2010, 01:20 PM
If you have a problem with his lawfully owned firearms, perhaps you should take it up with the government of Pakistan. They are the ones who approved the sale.

We don't demand serial numbers of arms from people on this forum, and they are usually not provided. Guns are assumed to be legal as it is a basic human right to own them. Perhaps you brits should take a moment to remember that.

Or go back to field-stripping your airsoft guns and leave the firearms to free men.

sid10101
May 21, 2010, 02:22 PM
Field strip my airsoft gat? Ill remember than next tour.

Sorry for being concerned at a possible act of arms trafficking, forgive me?

B. Lahey
May 21, 2010, 02:40 PM
forgive me?

Sure, and thank you for your service.:)

But this is really not the proper place for your inquiry. The government of Pakistan has all the info you wish. The serial number, the name of the dealer, and everything else.

Fire up the diplomatic channels and you may get somewhere, Firepower! is just a lawyer with a legal firearm.

sid10101
May 21, 2010, 03:09 PM
No issue with him. Id buy the thing if i could, well if i didnt have access to them.
Just wanted to see where the rifle came from, possibility of rifles being stolen from stocks etc.
Were not getting at him, mainly whoever nicked it, looking at it, its a reserve rifle, as it has an A1 handguard, and its freshly painted, susat is broken by the looks of it aswell.
So, it appears to be a reserve rifle, if they are ending up in Pakistan, then i really need to report it to the RMP, who'll do all the democratic crap, just a seiral number would prove its pinched, and who was responsible for it when it was nicked.
Also, watch out if its a Kyber pass special..

M4Sherman
May 21, 2010, 06:15 PM
yea how about yall quit profiling someone because of their national origin. for the love of christ your first post basically said " this dude is a terrorist because he is in Pakistan and has a gun!"

So why dont yall quit with the accusing about something you don't know anything about. Hell most likely it was traded off by some British solider for god knows what. The nerve


P.s we still love you firepower even if these gun-less brits dont

p99guy
May 21, 2010, 07:03 PM
M4, I like firepower...but as a policeman, I can see where a member of the British military would really want to know how that weapon got lost...because hell we know it came from Afganistan, its no big guess. I even ask in a nice way.

Owning it doent make firepower bad anymore than one of us buying a M1911A1 that was stolen 40 years ago from the USMC and purchased over the counter at the local Cabelas store. Stuff like that gets into channels. Especially in that part of the world. i allways liked seeing what he would buy next. Im all for him having what ever he is allowed to have, and as many as he can afford.

He would get to keep his L85,he purchased it through channels with gov't ok- the squadies just want to know if there is a crook in thier army, or it was spoils of war/battlefield pickup from a IED ambush site.

in the same situation, I woulnt be offended when ask to help authorites clear up a mystery...hell I would want to know if I had a dead troopers gun.

profiling..that was a laugh.

Cromlech
May 21, 2010, 07:44 PM
I was only an Army Cadet, but I did get to use the L86A1 LSW when I was a senior Cadet. Up until that point I used the L98A1 single shot rifles.
I've not used an L85A1 or A2 at all, though the L86A1 LSW is close enough.

Accurate, but a little bit awkward, and heavy for a 5.56mm weapon.

Austin Cowart
May 21, 2010, 10:19 PM
Hey Ass Hats! It isn’t a matter of your curiosity or his legality. Why not freaking reread what you all wrote in this thread! When it comes down o it you all had to be MR FREAKIN KNOWITALLS instead of being inquisitive new members. Look at yalls post counts Christ in heaven if you have a question ask it but don’t word crap so it makes someone else look like a terrorist or bad guy or whatever! Yall have just contributed to running off a great and VERY POLITE GUY, regardless how you want to justify it. Putting it a bit more blunt I WOULD RATHER YALL LEAVE THAN A REAL CONTRIBUTING MEMER OF THE BOARD! If you are curious if it was taken off the dead body of a fallen freedom fighter and later resold ask that crap in a PRIVATE MESSAGE! If you are curious as to its legality ASK IT IN A FREAKIN PRIVATE MESSAGE! We are all friends here and we are all looking to learn more about this great hobby we all share. So if you have knowledge, share it, if you have a question, ask it, but if you are here to make people think you have something other than a banana in your pants…. Go to a bar. Or … your local gun shop! Now then... If you have just read this and it applies to you directly and it has made you even the least bit angry think about how your previous post made firepower feel and maybe just maybe you will get my rant!

With much love
Austin

p99guy
May 22, 2010, 12:20 AM
Austin, take your meds.:rolleyes: most of your 104 posts are WTB/WTS releted...oh, and you can "kill with your pocket knife"

weapon247
May 22, 2010, 12:47 AM
not trying to be an ass

but I think both the sides are at a fault...

questions of serial numbers could have been asked privately [if at all]...

but firepower deleting his photobucket is also strange and unusual... he is also the owner of a gun forum in pakistan that now mostly remains off line but has never showed these weapons there apart from l85 I guess!!

this guy has been claiming different numbers of weapons sometimes it 40 Aks sometimes its 100 guns.. never been bothered really.. I am no friends with him or anything

seriously I doubt one can have that many FA licenses ( a PB license) that costs upwards of $2.5k [think: bribes etc] but well yes he is somewhat resourceful and from what I gathered he is in real estate business as well!!

in Pakistan real estate business is mostly about getting hold of someone else land, enmities etc .. that is maybe why the guy is paranoid about getting a hit on him!! :D jokes apart he's a good member and contributed a lot to this website!!

I have heard some really worrying remarks about Pakistan!! well it may have flaws but we all are not terrorist!! In fact Pakistan has paid the heaviest price for this war on terror more than 2500 soldiers have fallen and more than 10000 civilians have been killed we have had our economy slumped..

Just because you think one person is shady the whole of the country should also be the same??? :cool:

I have been a quite member learning from the more knowledgeable members on the forum but seriously I cant take the fact that I am in a company of people that brand us terrorists!

good bye and take care

p99guy
May 22, 2010, 01:10 AM
who is branding anybody as a terrorist? firepower says he baught it from a dealer with govt approval......no reason to doubt him on that, but that gun,
unlike a commercial offering could have only come from the British military.
its a current model and MOD property. Needless to say its allready been written off, and arent expecting it back....but they are concerned that there is a criminal wearing a british uniform- selling L85's. The UK doent give L85's out as aid, because they have too few to go around for there own uses.
There just isnt that many of them....and they aren't in production.

if it was a brand new MK16 SCAR we americans would have the same concern.

sid10101
May 22, 2010, 03:49 AM
That is really not what we were saying..
Pakis, got to love them, worked with them, good bunch.

We do not supply weapons in 'aid packages' well not L85 as it is known that no other army uses them, so they are traced back to us.
IF anything, well throw in some M16/M4's, because they are too common to trace.
So we know where this one came from, an to be honest, the military police are quite interested in arms trafficking routes, after all the people who brought this out of afghan, are the ones bringing in the aks and ied materials..

This thread got posted on the british army's forum, caused great concern through many ranks. Conern as to where it came from, not who has it now.

gyvel
May 22, 2010, 04:25 AM
OMG! I had best be silent about my Lee-Enfields, Webley & Scotts & Sniders, lest HM Government start investigating me...

Firepower!
May 22, 2010, 06:48 AM
Hi
I thing I owe everyone an apology for not replying before I called it a day. Please know that in Pakistan in Derra Adam Khail of tribal region all guns are available foreign as well as Pakistani. This was a burnt piece which got fixed up and was up for sale and I bought not know it would upset anyone. I will return it to seller- period. If anyone of you have been in that region yopu would know that there are tons of auto weapon with new numbers cuz they usually get their burnt or broken.
I have been part of this community and loved you guys, as I lived in the US as well and love it. To this day my best frineds are not from here but from the US. I never thought I would be accused here for innocently sharing my hobby. I hate Taliban (bastards) as much as you guys. They killed more Pakis then any other nation. They are the desease that we suffer from more then any other nation. With American+international community help we will win the war against them.

If anyone is conern about the military arms plesae take a visit to Derra Adam Khail or Jamrood in Pakistan and you will know what I am talking about. Once you choose a weapon there it then gets registered on your license through a tribal malik (leader who has authority to do so).

Last night was my daughter's birthday and this mess ruined it for me. I am not whinning but I am very disappointed that the time I took to post over 2000 posts and pictures went in vain. I tried so hard to be part of you guys, and 99.999% of you are wonderful bunch. I also wish I was in the US like you where I could walk in to a good store and buy branded stuff. Unfortunately, I dont have that luxary.

Now that I have told all of you where in Pakistn auto weapons are avialable. I reqyest the MODs to close this thread and put an end to this mess. I deleted my photo bucket because I dont want to be accouned of steeling some one's broomhaldes or pistols. I am a law abiding citizens just like you and wont want to be part of any mess.

Again I am sorry if I have "unintentionally" hurt anyone's feelings.

gyvel
May 22, 2010, 07:22 AM
Deleted post

medic1
May 22, 2010, 08:33 AM
Fire power. keep the gun it is yours. The mod will let you keep it. If there is nothing wrong with it. please keep as we may need it to make sure no ones selling them in the uk.

p99guy
May 22, 2010, 08:44 AM
No reason to leave, or even consider it that much of a mess...no one is laying any hate on you. No one is trying to take your L85 away.
Seems a whole bunch of folks are reading these posts and seeing words that that my computer screen isnt showing.
The only thing it has really identified so far is that a couple of posters on my side of the ocean have some really skewed sense of right and wrong(and their darn proud of it)

Billy_Whizz
May 22, 2010, 11:27 AM
Hi Guys, I am a long time lurker here and am an ex pat living in New York, and have just joined to comment on this thread.

Gun laws are very different in the UK, and gun collecting & shooting for civilians is virtually non-existent now.

I have tracked down the following thread on a British Forces Forum

http://www.arrse.co.uk/Forums/viewtopic/t=150061/postdays=0/postorder=asc/start=0.html

which I believe started the posts on here.

The L85A2 (modified L85A1) of the the SA80 series have never been sold or supplied to anyone outside of the British Forces, (A number of un-modified A1's were) and certainly not as an 'Aid Packages' as it would be traced back with ease. The British Govenment have plenty of captured weapons including AK's & FAL's should they wish to do so.

The guys posting here are serving soldiers who's feelings are high about a possible weapon taken of a dead British soldier, or stolen from somewhere, and are trying to find out where this weapon came from.

11B3H
May 22, 2010, 12:30 PM
Might I point out to some here that if the Rifle in Question was a U.S. Issue M-4 taken from the body of one of Our Men, some of you here might not be so "Golly gee, Kewl rifle doood". Myself I would be outraged, but maybe that comes from seeing friends bled out and their gear missing.

The Revolution ended 227 years ago, since then we & the Limeys have fought and bled together all over the world. I really got to wonder about someone so flippant as to crack jokes about the Sunset of the British Empire......

Imagine the L85 was carried by your Son/Daughter who's dead, or a close friend, then laugh about it wise guy.(Gyvel, Looking right at you). You dont have to be a Dick all the time.

p99guy
May 22, 2010, 12:49 PM
lol, great we managed to fit right into the mold of the stereotypical idiots we are thought to be by the rest of the world allready.

eeew wee, standby for hopalong Dingle berry, and his trusty sidekick, Numb nuts next poke at inter-nation-al reletions with Nato Allies.

11B3H, Spot on!

ScottRiqui
May 22, 2010, 01:13 PM
I don't know how much of it was us fitting the stereotype, or just the fact that the stereotype is out there. They were pretty quick to whip out "redneck" as well as calling us "disturbed individuals", saying that we need to "get out more...without our guns".

theP8riot
May 22, 2010, 01:55 PM
I suppose that I should prostrate myself before the gods of political correctness. I have in my posession a Arisaka bring back from Korea. Some poor Korean's son died an unfortunate death and I have profited from it. Please of gods of all things touchy feely, I beg your forgiveness.

Seriously gentlemen, pull your heads out of your ...... and get over it. The man scored an awesome weapon with a very unique story behind it. The fact that it happens to be an allied weapon wouldn't have stopped me from buying it either.

Firepower if your still here PM me and let me know where your new internet home will be. I have always enjoyed your posts and would like to continue to do so.

The rest of you can kiss it.

B. Lahey
May 22, 2010, 02:17 PM
if the Rifle in Question was a U.S. Issue M-4...

Firepower! has an M4. In fact I think he has a few. And yes, they are still neat.

Arms move freely through the world, and they don't come with histories engraved on them. As long as laws are followed, there is no cause for screeching.

That forum is a sick reminder of the decline of the British culture. Your forefathers would be ashamed of your fear and loathing of simple steel objects.

11B3H
May 22, 2010, 02:22 PM
God Forbid, but maybe if one of your grandkids gets shot by a Taliban and his weapon is now a trophy for another poster here, you might understand P8riot, though I doubt it.


And If you ever served in the Stan you'd understand that if they got the Rifle, they also Mutilated the Man carrying it pretty gruesomely. A Good Buddy of mine, a SFC. had his weapon taken and his head used as a soccer ball while still inside its ACH helmet. A Reuters cameraman filmed it in 2008. I bet you'd buy the helmet if they sold it.

ScottRiqui
May 22, 2010, 02:30 PM
My impression is that Firepower! hasn't acquired his weapons as any kind of "war trophies" or with any interest in whether or not the gun has a gruesome history. In fact, he seems to know very little about the histories of most of the guns he's posted about. To me, he just seems to be a guy that enjoys neat guns and has the monetary means to acquire them.

11B3H
May 22, 2010, 02:31 PM
Lahey, I've served for over 28 years in the Infantry of this Nation, in War and Peace. My Forefathers served in the Irish Brigade, WWI, WWII, Korea And Vietnam. Sorry if I dont think this is an appropriate Souvenier. Would you be as cool if someone had SSG. Keith Maupins M16A2?

Or PFC's Tucker & Menchacas M4's?

ScottRiqui
May 22, 2010, 02:38 PM
That's the thing - if you're buying a weapon as a souvenir because of its history, or because of who it belonged to before they were slaughtered, that's one thing. But the simple fact is that military weapons get into civilian channels, often legally. If you're buying it for the weapon and not because of the story, I don't really have a problem with it. How many people on this forum have a 1911 that was in some G.I.'s hand when he died?

B. Lahey
May 22, 2010, 02:45 PM
Would you be as cool if someone had SSG. Keith Maupins M16A2?

Or PFC's Tucker & Menchacas M4's?

If Firepower! were to end up with one of those rifles, it would actually be one of the better possible outcomes. They would be in the hands of a person who would give them the respect they deserve, and there would be zero chance of them being used against our allied forces.

Would it be the best outcome? No, of course not. But we do not live in a candy unicorn rainbow world. Notable arms both respectable and nefarious are bought and sold every day, and most do not find a home as legally compliant and above-board as Firepower! can provide.

lltq
May 22, 2010, 03:40 PM
I am amazed at reading this forum do none of you care where this SA80 came from have you really not thought how it came to be in Pakistan.

1. Stolen from a dead British solider

2. Stolen from an Arms store.

3. Battle field salvage.

I respect how the Americans view their gun laws but for gods sake use your brains there is no way that this weapon was bought legally and to it being legally registered in Pakistan I realy do not think so. A stolen weapon in any Country is a stolen weapon.

To clear things up all he has to do is provide the serial number as remember he says He bought it legally so would have nothing to hide or does he?

How would you all like it if it was an American weapon that had been acquired and was now in Pakistan you would be screaming the house down and demanding a drone strike on his house.

So stop bitching and ask for the serial number to be shown and jobs a good one .

But alas I do not think he will show it because we no ITS STOLEN.

And as to the sun setting on the Empire very sad we are I do belive allies but please remember.

1. We had an Empire

2. We founded America

Buts thats history and the past the Brish support the Americans and visa versa you will im sure agree that a stolen weapon is a bad thing.:rolleyes:

Retired15T
May 22, 2010, 05:50 PM
I've served my country for over 20 years.

I've seen more than 38 of my fellow Soldiers killed during that service. From wars to training accidents. Mogadishu saw many of my brothers killed and their weapons lost to the bad guys.

If an M4 shows up in a Pakistani's personal arsenal, I'm not going to worry about whether or not it came from my friend Tommy Field or one of the many others who lost their life doing a job only those who serve know the satisfaction and the love of doing.

I will not disgrace their memory by worrying about petty things such as that. Their memories mean so much more to me than that.

The weapon Firepower has isn't supposed to be "legally" acquired by civilian's in Britain or even America I would imagine. That does not mean, however, that it is illegal to own it in Pakistan. Unless you know the laws concerning that particular weapon in Pakistan, I suggest you stop getting your panties in a wad over the friggin Internet forum and insulting people for no reason.

If I were in your shoes, and this was a weapon that was only issued here in the U.S. to Army folks, I would contact my S2 and CID. I wouldn't make it SO MUCH MORE DIFFICULT to track down that weapon, and it's path to someone who by British standards shouldn't own it, by directly confronting the individual who has the damned thing. Now, the guy who has it that probably did acquire it through legal means in his country, is going to make sure it disappears. Making it that much more difficult to track it down should your country even care to expend the resources to get it. But by creating such a row in this thread, anyone associated with the theft, if that is indeed how it was eventually moved to this guys possession, will now be forewarned of any investigative measures taken to figure out how it got there in the first place.

So chill out. You've just made the investigation SO much harder with your e-peen crap.

And YES. If this were a weapon in a person's hands that I knew shouldn't have it, I would be upset too. But I wouldn't cheapen the loss of my friends by bringing that aspect into it and I certainly wouldn't forewarn the very people I was hoping to catch by getting all this out in the Internet. :rolleyes:

Beowulf5505
May 22, 2010, 06:04 PM
as a soldier i also feel uncomfortable about the idea of a private owner with this weapon. it is possible that this gun came to pakistan in an honest manner, however i believe that is extremely unlikely. I realize that everyone here is sensitive about the right to own weapons but we cant just ignore a potential moral issue because the firearm is cool.

i myself would love to own a LA85. but i would not be comfortable owning one that may have come from a dead soldier, whether the law said the gun was ok or not.

for those of you who wish to just ignore the weapon's past and say "well at least the gun is in a collection, not shooting at our troops" think about it. you can buy a lot of AK's for the money that an LA85 will get you. and someone got a lot of money for this rifle

i cant believe people on here seem to be fine with someone spending thousands of dollars for a weapon that was quite possibly taken by violence from allies fighting with us in afganistan.

gyvel
May 23, 2010, 05:45 AM
Imagine the L85 was carried by your Son/Daughter who's dead, or a close friend, then laugh about it wise guy.(Gyvel, Looking right at you). You dont have to be a Dick all the time.

The fact of the matter is that he has NO idea of who possessed the weapon, nor the circumstances under which it was acquired before he LEGALLY purchased it (at considerable expense, I might add).

I resent the high handed manner in which you have hounded, humiliated and badgered him. I don't think the man has any obligation whatsoever to supply the serial number of said gun.

And you can look at me all you want; I LEGALLY own many Lee-Enfields, Webley & Scotts, Inglis and FN High-Powers and, yes, even a real live, legitimate L1A1. So why don't you imagine if one of those guns was carried by one of your grandfathers/fathers/uncles/brothers or a close friend. Furthermore, I served next to ANZACs in southeast Asia, so I am well acquainted with the horrors of war.

Stop making ridiculous speculations and leave Firepower alone. War is Hell. People die. Guns are sold all over the world.

Ducatist4
May 23, 2010, 01:10 PM
The real point is that this rifle wasn't sold by the MOD. If it is indeed a battle field find I'd like to know who found it and passed it on. There is a very good chance that it was the Taliban so by buying this rifle (either from the person who found it or from someone way down the chain) you are actually helping to fund them to buy yet more weapons to kill and wound British and American soldiers.

B. Lahey
May 23, 2010, 02:26 PM
Well good luck with that, you have already destroyed any chance of a fruitful investigation with your bumbling.

If you had approached the man in private and arranged for the sending of a letter on proper letterhead, or even a respectful phone call, you may have got somewhere.

Instead, you and a pile of other extremely low level subjects of the crown came on to a public forum and rudely started asking pointed questions and insulting the only person in a position to immediately give you the information you want.

Great move, Sherlock. Pass this on to your superiors so they can try to undo the damage you have done, if you want to risk the repremand you will surely receive for your conduct if you do so, that is.

The incompetence and arrogance you have displayed in your crude attempts to learn about this rifle are shocking. You may want to stop talking at this point and bring in somebody with a sense of tact and common decency to respectfully ask the man for his assistance IN PRIVATE.

Crankylove
May 23, 2010, 08:50 PM
How about lockin the thread? I am sure we have had enough idiots form accross the pond castng slights at Firepowers character and accusing him of crimes with no proof. Hopefully he is willing to continue to be a member of this forum.

The brits are just jealous anyway, they let their own government disarm them.............thankgod for the revolution :)

Johnny Guest
May 23, 2010, 09:06 PM
CLOSED