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View Full Version : Quick SBR question


glockopop
October 30, 2009, 02:47 PM
I've always lived in Iowa where this cool NFA stuff is illegal, but I've just moved to indiana where we can have this cool stuff. Question I have is, can I get a rifle with a 16" (non-NFA) barrel, do my paperwork and get my stamp, then cut it back to under 16"?

I'd like to get a .45acp AR built but the uppers I've seen are all 16".

VUPDblue
October 30, 2009, 03:02 PM
Yes you can. When I built one of my 9mm AR SBR's I had a complete rifle that I could (and did) use until my forms came back. As soon as that happened, I sent the barrel out to be cut to 5.25" and threaded.

While you're surfing the 'web, you might check out www.ingunowners.com. We're a local (Indiana) gun forum and there's lots of good local info there.

glockopop
October 30, 2009, 04:50 PM
Thanks for the heads-up about INGO, I just joined a few weeks ago. And thanks for the SBR info. Now I just need to find a .45 upper. The 9mms are everywhere.

Chipperman
October 30, 2009, 05:56 PM
You're probably better off just buying a short barrel when you get the Form back, as opposed to cutting the 16" barrel down.

glockopop
October 30, 2009, 06:13 PM
If it weren't a .45, I'd probably go that route. I've got a Cav Arms lower that can take grease gun mags, but I need an Olympic upper and they've never made them with short barrels.

Sasquatch in MN
October 30, 2009, 11:40 PM
Remember to have your lower engraved with the necessary info BEFORE you get your approved Form 4 back.....unless you can bring it somewhere and wait for it.

Sending a Title 1 lower (Rifle) to a smith is good to go and they can ship it back to you directly. Wait until you get the form 4 with stamp back, that lower is now a NFA firearm that is a wee bit more cvomplex to ship around for work.

Don

gyvel
October 30, 2009, 11:46 PM
Remember to have your lower engraved with the necessary info BEFORE you get your approved Form 4 back.....unless you can bring it somewhere and wait for it.


Not completely correct; You MUST have it engraved before the actual deed is accomplished. In other words, you can receive the paperwork approving the conversion, BUT you must have it engraved BEFORE you actually complete the work.

Sasquatch in MN
October 31, 2009, 12:23 AM
I dont want to start a contest, but from my experience the approved Form 4 with tax stamp makes the lower a NFA gun in the eyes of the BATF regardless of whether its wearing an upper or not. They entered it into the NFA registry as an SBR when the Form 4 was approved, so in their eyes its an SBR.

If you ever decide to "convert" it back into a rifle, it remains an NFA gun until ATF acknowleges your request letter to remove it from the NFA registry.

Be very, very careful with NFA paperwork and processes. There are lots of gray areas to avoid.

Don

VUPDblue
October 31, 2009, 08:24 AM
I agree that sending it out for engraving while you are waiting on the forms is a good idea. I've seen it done a number of ways, but the above seems to be the smartest way. FWIW, Orion Arms (www.orionarms.com) does a FANTASTIC job of engraving...

Sasquatch in MN
October 31, 2009, 09:36 AM
His only contact is via e-mail and can seem be a bit slow to answer initially, but his work is absolutely top shelf and the turn time is less than a week for me on several occasions.

Sasquatch in MN
October 31, 2009, 09:41 AM
remember that possessing a short barrelled upper which is merely a part can be construed as "readily assembled" should you also possess a bare lower or a complete AR rifle.

I dont think anyone has ever been charged with a "readily assembled" SBR, but I would not want to be the first.

On my first AR SBR, I waited until my approved Form 4 came back before I ordered the upper I wanted. Added a month to the process, but was the safest route to plot.

VUPDblue
October 31, 2009, 02:40 PM
I think the phrase you're looking for is "constructive intent".

David Hineline
October 31, 2009, 10:59 PM
There will be lots of 45 AR build info here.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=15&t=345390

rjrivero
October 31, 2009, 11:11 PM
I agree that sending it out for engraving while you are waiting on the forms is a good idea. I've seen it done a number of ways, but the above seems to be the smartest way. FWIW, Orion Arms (www.orionarms.com) does a FANTASTIC job of engraving...

The website is www.orion-arms.com
I appreciate that info. I have a couple SBR's to make this winter.

glockopop
November 1, 2009, 03:38 PM
As I said, I'm a total newb, didn't know about the whole engraving thing. Since the Cav Arms lower is polymer, where would the engraving go?

VUPDblue
November 1, 2009, 11:41 PM
It can go wherever you like. The most common spot at the moment is on the front of the magwell. That's where I have a couple of mine. I also have some on the right side of the receiver, just above the trigger pin, and one on either side of the hole where the hammer protrudes from the receiver. That one was tricky...

David Hineline
November 2, 2009, 01:38 AM
If not in a big hurry to be having your guns. you could send the original receiver back to the original manuf. and they can register as a SBR and direct form 4 transfer back to you without a dealer in your home state. This will require no new markings.

If you decide to form 1 the unit you will have to mark either the receiver, or the barrel with name/city/state, since the cav arms unit is one large piece anywhere in plain sight would be acceptable.