LCR Kicks Too Much

[Blue]

My wife is complaining that her new LCR hurts her hand. She shot a box of 130 Gr Remington Factory Loads this afternoon and didn't enjoy it much.

Any suggestions on how we can improve her shooting experience with this weapon? She has a Ruger P90 That is fun for her and she enjoys a day at the range with it and 200 to 300 rounds. (she uses 230 gr ball ammo loads and some I make - 200gr Gold Dots and 6 gr 231)

Would appreciate some counseling on this - she knows it is an SD weapon but she has the sense to know she needs to practice a lot to hone her skills and become proficient with it - but so far not very enjoyable to shoot.

[rantingredneck]

Were the 130's plinking/target loads or were they +p defensive loads? I'm assuming target loads, but thought I'd ask anyway.

Since you reload you could load her up some light loads to get started. Either 125-130 grain bullets or even as light as 110's if you can find them. And then work up from there. You could also get her a shooting glove to help tame the recoil to start and then gradually wean off of it.

It can be a handfull with +P defensive loads but with target loads it doesn't bother me at all. Of course I've got big paws and am pretty recoil tolerant.

Good luck!

[dawico]

Try standard 38 special loads. They are way easier on the hand and easier to control the gun with.

Hornady Critical Defense is an excellent option. Made to expand at low speeds even through thick clothing.

Your wife needs to practice with a load that is similiar to her carry rounds. Try reloading to match the feel of those. Shooting alot will make a big difference to her recoil threshhold also. The Critical Defense is a relatively inexpensive round for as good as it is supposed to be.

Good luck and good shooting.

[zombieslayer]

My mom's .38 S&W snubbie recoiled a bit hard, so we bought her reduced recoil hydra-shoks. Problem solved! Critical Defense is also a mild recoiling cartridge. Try the Hydra's

[Casimer]

I've found the j-frame grip that Jerry Miculek demonstrates in this video to be very effective in reducing the sting from recoil - http://www.myoutdoortv.com/pdk/web/smith.html?feedPID=00zG15zm84msK0GbWemanhJ0KNWQYqM4

When you use this grip, really clench down on your shooting hand with your supporting hand. This reduces the slap from recoil without introducing too much tension in your shooting hand.

[raincitywheel]

Trade it in for a SW M686.

[Dr. A]

My wife will shoot wadcutters going slow from mine.

2.8gr. of titegroup and Hornady's 148gr. hollowbase wadcutter. Very slow and easy. Also very accurate.

[gglass]

My wife is pretty petite and she loves her little LCR. She hated my J-Frame Smiths because of the triggers, but she learned how to shoot small revolvers just like Jerry Miculek. (mentioned above) The support hand thumb gripped over the strong hand web is great for reducing the felt recoil. It is not an intuitive way to shoot a handgun, but with practice it can become second nature... That is the important thing.

Also make sure that your wife becomes proficient at staging the LCR's trigger. My wife is a sure-shot with her LCR and can keep 3" to 4" groups at 15-yards. Not bad for a snubby.

If you are using the Miculek grip method and shooting non +P rounds, then there is no reason that your wife's LCR experience cannot be a good one.

http://www.myoutdoortv.com/pdk/web/smith.html?feedPID=00zG15zm84msK0GbWemanhJ0KNWQYqM4

[DMZX]

Try some of the Hornady 110gr Critical Defense stuff in regular .38 Spl. Very light recoil and very accurate, at least in my LCR. Kind of pricey though.

[Big Bill]

She needs to have a heavier gun that will help control the recoil. Sell or trade it.

[Blue]

Lots of excellent comments here.

Thanks for the responses. Plenty to work with.

The loads she was using were Standard 38 Spl - 130 gr. (Remington green box)

[JohnKSa]

If you're using the Crimson Trace Laser Grips you may find that the standard grips offer better recoil absorption. I've seen some complaints about recoil with the CTL Grips but most people seem to be pretty happy with the standard grips.

You can try some other grip styles, but if they don't work you may find she's happier (and probably shoots better as well) with another SD gun.

[cocojo]

I use the critical defense 110 non +P's and I would say that the recoil is very controlable. As for it being light, I would say more in the middle. Not as light as a wadcutter but less than a +P. The weight of the bullet is going to affect recoil and 110's are generally lighter in recoil. Very good results in ballistic gell with these rounds. I found the price to be somewhat reasonable at $20.00 for 25 rounds. Most companies have 20 round boxes for that price. Ammunitiontogo.com has them in stock. Also buy some wadcutters for her to try.

[Jim March]

Yet another vote for the Hornady Critical Defense 110gr standard pressure as being likely the least recoil available in a respectable defense load.

The next step down from that as a defensive load would be plain lead 148gr flat-faced target wadcutters, not as good but not "harmless" either.

For practice...hmmm...you really might want to reload. Penn and other bullet houses have nice deals on 100gr plain lead rounds and loading data to do "mouse phart" loads as often used in cowboy action shooting. These will be cheap to brew up yourself, and safe SO LONG AS you follow the "minimum" recipes religiously - it can be dangerous to brew up rounds with too little powder.

Recoil will be light bordering on non-existent. For actual carry use pack the Hornady 110s as noted, they'll shoot to a similar point of aim.

[gwalchmai]

A nice thick leather glove can help get through the range sessions. Adrenaline will make the recoil aversion disappear in a social encounter.

[Viper225]

My experiance for what it is worth.
She might carry the little Ruger. Get her something heavy enough to soak up the recoil, and she will not carry it.
I have went back and forth on this issue over the years with a S&W 49, and a couple 649's, and a Ruger SP101 9mm and finally when I bought an Airweight 638 I carry it all the time. I sold the others due to being heavier than I was willing to carry.
My solution to recoil is reloading. I have a mild load worked up with 125 semiwadcutters over a small dose of Clays. Clean burning, and reasonable recoil. I carry Golden Sabers in it, but shoot the reloads for practice. I shoot it in our IDPA Style match every month in CCW Division. The little Smith shoots great. We have one shooter with the new Ruger at this time, and he loves it.
You can get too light, and the Ruger is probably very close to that line. If you cannot get a load worked out, you might move up a little in weight to a 637 or 638 Smith and see what she thinks about recoil on one of them. That is as heavy as she would probably carry. I think you can get a reload going for the Ruger that she will shoot though.

Bob

[Blue]

Many helpful thoughts given. Helps me get this into perspective.

Will report back later on progress.

Thank you all for your comments - all good!

Blue

[stevieboy]

Those little guns are going to hurt no matter what you shoot from them. I'm good for 25 rounds or so of standard .38 specials from my S & W model 36. Beyond that, the "ouch" factor causes me to lose concentration. Jerry Miculek's clip, linked to by Casimer, is really valuable, however. His recommended J-frame grip is a hand-saver even if it doesn't eliminate all pain.

[F=ma]

The "Miculek grip" for snubbies was interesting - I'll have to try it. Blue: if your wife tries it, make sure she realizes that it's for the LCR only; if she uses it with the P90 she'll have two new joints in her thumb!

[Richarde]

I'm gonna agree with surprise. I just bought my lcr on friday, took it to the range yesterday and shot 55 rounds through it. 5 of which were 125 grain remington golden sabers +p. I will have to say, those had a heck of a lot more recoil than the 158 grain blazers and remington lead ball ammo i shot.

Lesson learned: This gun is a gun you learn and then just carry. I mean being 6'3 260, i can say i enjoyed shooting it. Even one handed. But I felt it after 50 continuous rounds.

[Blue]

Point well taken. For the LCR only.

She uses the conventional 2 hand for the P90.

Thanks for mentioning.

F also = dp/dt so the error would be over before any reaction would be possible (first derivative of momentum with respect to time)

[gwalchmai]

The Miculek grip helps, but I've found that it really helps me to hold j-frames tightly. If I allow the little guns any wiggle room they beat on my thumb joint, but if I don't it's not so bad.

[parisite]

Load 2.5gr Clays or 2.8gr Bullseye behind cast lead 148gr double end wadcutters.
She will find them quite pleasurable.

NO reason to shoot anything else.

[nutty ned]

Get her a new gun

[WC145]

Well, you bought her a 13oz revolver and she's used to a 2lb auto, what did you expect? This is like all the people that buy LCP's and P3AT's and then complain about the recoil from a .380.

So you know, it's only going to get worse. Small and light is great for carrying but a lot of folks can't handle the inreased recoil that comes with the low weight. 130gr ball ammo is some of the weakest stuff araound, the WWB version only averaged 689fps out of my S&W 637. If she has issues with this stuff she'll be in real trouble with any of the hotter defensive loads. I agree with some of the other posters that you should look into something else, either a heavier snubbie or a smaller auto than her Ruger, since she's comfortable with that.

[zombieslayer]

My mom thought her Airweight had a little kick to it, till she tried my p3at.

[culleniii3]

The LCR is a great carry gun and it has less recoil then comparable titanium and scandium models. It is still meant to be a carry a lot and shoot a lil so to quote others--what did you expect.

[Viper225]

I have been loading 2.5 Grains of Clays under a 125 SWC. In a 638 with Crimson Trace Rubber Laser Grips it is not bad to shoot with this load at all.
Again I would try a very light load and see how that works in the LCR first.

If recoil is still objectionable you might consider a S&W Model 36 or 60 or an SP101 for practice, and just carry the LCR.

If the pistol gets heavier than a S&W Airweight she probably wont carry it at all. Most women will not carry a brick in their purse or pocket. Most cannot wear a holster when they carry either. So light weight is the only answer that works.

I do not find changing handguns around hurts me much. I normally shoot atleast 4 different handguns on match day at the Club every month. A 638 in CCW, either my S&W 610 or 625 in Revolver, my Mk III Ruger or 617 S&W in Rimfire, and my 1911 and or XDm in Semi Auto Division. I switch between them with no problem at all. In my opinion she could practice with something that does not recoil as badly as the LCR and still do just fine if she had to use the LCR for defense. Getting the first round on target is probably the #1 priority in a defense shooting situation. If she is not scared of the LCR when she pulls the trigger the first time, the chances of a solid hit are much better.

I believe how much and how often you shoot is more important than what you shoot as long as it is close to the same platform you carry. An SP 101 or an all steel J Frame should work for practice. The real answer would be an LCR in a 22 LR. That would be a good practice and Kit Gun with the same feel and trigger pull, with out the recoil.

Just my 2 cents.

Bob

[Hunley]

Try rolling some light loads for her to practice with.

Also, try finding the lighter weight solid copper hollow points as a defense round. Barnes offers them in 110gr., and I know Magtech also offers an almost identical product, but the weight escapes me. Even the Corbon DPX +P ammo feels like a light load compared to 135gr. +P Speer Gold Dots in my 642 Airweight.

[spacecoast]

The loads she was using were Standard 38 Spl - 130 gr. (Remington green box)

That (Remington L38S11) is actually a fairly heavy .38 special load at 950 fps and 260 ft-lbs. There are lots of lighter choices, even for SD - see the list I posted a couple of days ago.

[funon1]

To keep her happy and from developing a flinch switch to a mid-weight plated wadcutter and then develop some light target loads. You can then gradually sep up the power until you reach her maximum tolerable level. I would forget about +p HPs for now.

The .38 that I used for my kids consisted of new Remington brass, CCI 500s primers, 148 grain HBWC from Berry's over 2.7 grains of Bullseye. They found this more tolerable than the FBI load from BB or JHP Cor Bons Or my own 125 grain jhps (which were Rem. bullets over 8.5 grains of Blue Dot).

I find the plated bullets to be much more cost effective, while able to run at lower velocities and while maintaining a low lead atmoshpere. This should allow more practice and save ya a few bucks to boot.

Shooter429

[JerseyDrez]

You bought her an LCR and she expected a small kick?

Haha.

[iflyforfun]

I love my LCR. I expected the recoil to be a lot worse than it actually is. I have the stock Hogue grips on mine.

Which grips do you have on her LCR?

[czf]

Mine arrived today.

Even better trigger pull than the one I handled over in Idaho!

Have yet to shoot it, but nice and light loaded with Glasers and
38+P JHPs.


http://onfinite.com/libraries/1531699/003.jpg

I think that I finally found the perfect snubby for me.

[orionengnr]

^^^
Great. Now do some reading on Glaser/MagSafe and other "pre-fragmented ammo", and you will probably coclude that they are a very expensive, one-trick pony (spelled gimmick) with little to no penetration.