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View Full Version : Serious safety question...what would you guys do?


FrontSight
October 19, 2009, 10:07 AM
So I use a guide a lot for waterfowl hunting, since I don't have a dog or a boat, nor time to scout etc etc.

He has lots of repeat cutomers, many who I have hunted with repeatedly. Most of them are great guys...

One of these clients (who is one of these great guys & liked by everyone) had been in a bad accident, and has chronic pain, for which pharmaceutical drugs will only help to a certain point, and I found out that he ocassionally will smoke a doobey to help alleviate the pain when the prescribed drugs don't work.

Now, I always felt that what people do in their own privacy, as long as they are not hurting anyone else, is their own business and I have no place getting involved.

BUT, he offerred for us to share one before our last hunt, to which I of course graciously declined.

I could tell he was not intoxicated, and so I didn't mind hunting with him. If he was high then of course I would have slammed the brakes on the hunt before it even started.

Now, the question becomes: What do I do with this information? Do I keep my mouth shut, do I speak to the guy & have him promise me that he would never go hunting while high :rolleyes: , or do I let the guide know that he should keep his eye on this client, because he could potentially go on a hunt while intoxicated & wind up killing someone??

Now, I don't want to be a rat, but I'm really leaning towards informing the guide, because this could be a matter of life and death, and I would be just as responsible for anything that happens if I kept my mout shut, right?

What are your thoughts, guys?

ZeSpectre
October 19, 2009, 10:37 AM
I think I would cease hunting with that person. High risk behavior is not my cup o' tea and going hunting with someone who might be stoned is bad mojo.

Pahoo
October 19, 2009, 10:48 AM
ZeSpectre + 1
I would also inform the guide. At face value, I would not turn him. Even if he was doing this stuff legally, I would not hunt with him. Just my measure. ;)


Be Safe !!

davlandrum
October 19, 2009, 10:49 AM
I would let the guide know simply due to the safety aspect.

No need to make a federal case out of it, just pass on the info and let the guide handle it.

AirForceShooter
October 19, 2009, 10:53 AM
1. Shut up about the grass.

2. Tell the guide you won't shoot with the guy again.

AFS

Edward429451
October 19, 2009, 10:58 AM
What safety aspect? Do you guys think that if he's hit a doobey all of a sudden he'll be freaking out. I do not think so. If it were so, we would have already heard the buzz from the anti gunners "Man smokes dooby and slaughters nine" or "Man smokes dooby and shoots self in foot" or some such.

I would keep the info to yourself and understand that you may be over reacting just a wee bit...

Cannabis is a fantastic muscle relaxer and works faster than pills. Cut the man some slack, he's already in pain. He doesn't need ostracized for trying to manage his pain some.

davlandrum
October 19, 2009, 11:16 AM
I would feel the same way if he had 2 beers at lunch. No, I don't think he would be drunk, but could be impaired slightly which might lead to a momentary lapse.

FrontSight
October 19, 2009, 11:23 AM
Edward429451, I don't think he will start freaking out or anything, and I doubt anyone else here thinks that either.

What I am concerned about, and I think I speak for everyone else here as well, is the real danger that comes from hunting while being intoxicated.

Have you ever hunted 6 deep from a boat, in choppy seas, with a wet deck, pass shooting at ducks flying at 60 miles per hour? Very easy to have an accident, even when you are sober.

The dangers I am concerned about are things like not keeping his finger off the trigger, falling down more easily with the boat rocking and therefore possibly dropping his shotgun or having it go off unintentionally, or him knocking into others and causing their guns to go off unintentionally - if that sounds far fetched then you have never hunted in the conditions I stated above, or even in a just john boat on a calm lake where everyone jumps up to shoot over the blind frame; people fall down all the time in those situations even when they are sober.

And then there are even lesser, non dangerous acts that are still issues of concern like shooting at non-permitted species because they can't properly identify the species since they are high, shooting at game while the boat is still under power, etc etc. Those will get everyone a visit from any game wardens around, as well as giving all hunters a bad reputation from anyone witnessing these acts if they know the law.

And as I said, I have no problem with what people do in their own free time as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else, but when they put people in danger then it's another story. I feel he can manage his pain however he wants 99.99% of the time, but when he holding a loaded shotgun on a slippery deck surrounded by others also holding loaded shotguns on that same slippery deck and we're all actively shooting, then maybe the rest of us do have a say in it?

KingEdward
October 19, 2009, 11:25 AM
what he is doing is illegal. Possession / use.

you're decision to be with him whether hunting or not poses some
risk.

GeauxTide
October 19, 2009, 11:30 AM
I don't care what he does, but I wouldn't have been gracious (to him) if he offered it to me. I would also ask the guide to hunt with others. I would not tell the guide anything.

FrontSight
October 19, 2009, 11:36 AM
I would not tell the guide anything.

But what if you care about the guide's safety as well, and the safety of the others that you know this person will hunt with in the future with this guide?

The guide also has his son work as the first mate on the boat. How could I live with myself if something happened to this man's son and I knew that this one client is a potential danger?

Edward429451
October 19, 2009, 12:01 PM
A jon boat may pose a little additional risk to someone who's high. You didn't mention that in first post so I had walking around with rifles in my head. Being in diff boat may not help you if he falls with his SG towards you! Interesting scenario. I don't like getting people in trouble but I do like being safe.

On the other hand...they are all a potential danger even if sober in the scenario you described! The pot may or may not make him more clumsy. Hmmm.

bejay
October 19, 2009, 12:06 PM
ive hunted with alot of people that smoke before hunting and even during the hunt and have done this for over 15 years and so far havent seen any one of them be unsafe at all. think you might be making more of this than what it is but if it really concerns you, guess you can mention it to the guide but im sure hes guided stoned hunters before and likely never even knew it.

armoredman
October 19, 2009, 12:20 PM
...not worth the effort...

Art Eatman
October 19, 2009, 03:21 PM
BEFORE he lights up, why not just tell the guy, "Hey, I don't want to hunt with you when you've been smoking Mary Jane. You're just not as safe as I'd like." No need to tell the guide or anyone else until AFTER you've dealt with Mr. Toker.

Marijuana has a soporific effect. It not only degrades physical coordination, it reduces the ability to concentrate.

Beer is a known quantity, insofar as the 99% probable effects of any one beer. Marijuana varies all over the place as to potency. A guy might think he'll be okay after only a puff or two, but there's some stuff out there that's definitely "moreso".

I remember some goodie from Bolinas, one time...

shortwave
October 19, 2009, 05:34 PM
What are your thoughts guys? From the sounds of your response to Edwards 'thoughts', its seems as though you`ve made your mind up. I pheasant hunted with a cancer patient(now expired) that often smoked on an outing. The surroundings and style of hunting was much more organized than the style of hunting your doing. I never once felt endangered by him. I have felt endangered on a few hunts I`ve been on when a few of the guys would be drinking, to the point where I've left. If I didn`t want to hunt with the guy I`d get him alone and tell him. It may be possible your guide and others knows more than you think;).

Pahoo
October 19, 2009, 06:05 PM
What I'm seeing here is those who have not and those that have and perhaps still are. I'm not saying where I've been and undstand that what is said in this forum, stays in this forum. For those who don't know it, Pot is what they call a gateway drug. It opens the door to other drugs and that is a fact. It won't make you do crazy stuff but is indicative of a "Character Flaw". You have been made aware of his habit and now you are obligated to give the guide the same coutesy. Mention it and let him decide what to do about it if anything. You then need to make up your own mind. I find it difficult to buy into a need to smoke while on these hunts. To say otherwise is blowing smoke up my ..... !!
By the way, we are have character flaws; just some worse than others.


Be Safe !!!

CajunBass
October 19, 2009, 06:07 PM
I have no idea that it's true, but I have no reason to think it's not. My understanding is that if party "A" has dope on Party "B"s boat, party "B" may well lose his boat if the boat is boarded and the dope is found even if Party "B" had no knowledge of it.

Someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I would think the guide might like to know if that's correct.

VaFisher
October 19, 2009, 06:33 PM
I can't say much about lighting up but as far as medical drugs go when someone has pain the drug would go to the pain first instead of like a normal person where the drug would make one high instead. So what I am saying is someone that is in pain and taking drug's the drug may not make the person feel any high at all but rather pain relief only.

SigP6Carry
October 19, 2009, 06:45 PM
I would just like to point out a bit of ignorance that's being spouted off here:
people have different tolerances to different substances. I'm not going to cite myself as a professional on Marijuana use, tolerance and effects (as I have no long term exposure myself), but I've been in classes with people who smoke up and I was never wise to it until they offered to smoke me up before class with them sometimes.

Marijuana comes in many different forms and has many different effects on different people. It's possible that he was smoking medicinal marijuana, which I understand is a pretty clean and low-level narcotic, which probably wouldn't send him on a messed up trip or anything. As far as the drinking comment goes: you've gotta be pretty lightweight to have 2 beers at lunch effect you enough to change your behavior.

I've in fact been put on pain killers for weird reasons (a persistent, dry cough) that did nothing but numb my throat and prevent me from feeling less obvious nuances on my body (thus preventing my lungs from coughing, as my "cough sensors" wouldn't feel the need to cough). It's different for different people.

In this specific example, though, it sounds like he was offering it to others for recreational use. This is an interesting fact in this specific case as it is rhetorical suggests that this specific person is a "pot-head."

Think about this: how many people on this board are on various pain-killers, sleeping pills, anti-depressants, ADD/ADHD medication, etc. Any and all drugs and alcohol can potentially cause a lapse of consciousness/perception, though some more than others and it varies from person to person.

If I were the OP, I would report him to the game warden in the area based solely on his trying to "pass it around." If he were simply smoking a little to help alleviate pain, more power to him.

Also, Cigarettes and Caffeine are both stimulants that alter your consciousness slightly. Think about that.

shortwave
October 19, 2009, 07:53 PM
You beat me to it Thomme. Just where do we draw the line. The person I refered to in my post would smoke after breakfast or lunch to keep his food down and settle his stomach. He`d also smoke when he left the hospital after a chemo treatment. Sometimes he`d just take a couple hits,sometime`s more. Never saw him smoke even half a joint. The pills(can`t remember there name) the Dr. gave him for this didn`t work. He told his Dr. what he was doing and the Dr`s reply was "the pills work for some people,some they don`t. I can't recommend you to smoke pot to keep your food down, its not yet legal in this state, but if its working for you...". I guarantee you this guys on tape in the hospital parking lot firing up on the way to the car after a treatment. He wasn`t a pot-head. Never knew him to smoke before his cancer. I do know when he started taking his treatments, not being able to keep anything down, he went from about 220lbs. to about 165lbs. After starting smoking, he gained about 10lbs. before he finally died. Watching him go through his cancer ordeal as well as some research on the topic has changed my mind on pot when used for medicinal purposes. To date there`s 14 states its legal in and many high profile medical people that are starting to see its benefit in different areas. Sooo, again where do we draw the line: not gonna hunt with someone that just quit smoking that morning and is so jumpy and wants to kill everything in sight, not gonna hunt with someone who`s got a bad cold and takes some alcohol/codiene based cough med.,or on an anti-depressant. Next time you go to the doctor make sure you read the side-effects of the script your given, so many are mind-altering in some form. This guy that offered to get his fellow hunters high was wrong in doing so, no excusing that. I`d diffenitely would want to know if anyone in my hunting party was taking Viagra before we went affield:eek:.

Edward429451
October 19, 2009, 08:50 PM
Now waitaminute marijuana is a gatewaydrug, fact remember? What you said blows that out of the water. It is possible for people to use very small amounts and not be on crack within a month too. I've known a few of those people. (Edited to add, I was being facetious here, and my point is that MJ doesnt have to be a gateway drug, and hasnt been for some folks I've known. Please don't misunderstand me! Thanks.)

I gotta admit...he shouldn't have offered it around. But smoking pot can be as much the ritual of it than the high. Hippies and their pot parties! Even though he may be "legit' now or somewhat...

SigP6Carry
October 19, 2009, 09:12 PM
you can argue that anything is a "gateway" drug. There's no chemical evidence that once you smoke pot you HAVE to smoke crack and shoot up heroin and take LSD and other drugs. Same way that anti-gun folks spin gun stories to try and get guns banned is the same way the anti-drug folks make every little pill and puff seem like it's going to end your life.

shortwave
October 19, 2009, 09:17 PM
Edward, at risk of a big thread veer and not promoting either,in my lifetime, I`ve seen the use of alcohol be 'the gateway' to alot more harmful things than marijuana ever thought of doing. Guess our experiences in life form the attitudes we have today;).

FrontSight
October 19, 2009, 09:40 PM
Wow, lots of interesting thoughts have come about from my question, and I think everyone for their insight.

Now, I just want to make it clear that this guy is as likeable as anyone you've ever met in your life. He's no "bad guy, drug addict, pusher, pot-head, lowlife creep" or anything like that in my mind at all. He has an honest chronic pain condition, from an accident on the job, and the pot truly does work for him in medicinal ways that prescription drugs can't. Not to mention that it also costs him a crapload less $$...he's spending over $7k a year in prescription drugs. As far as offering me some, hey, I see it as him just being hospitable, and without any malice at all.

So I hope that clears up my feelings of his pot use and offering.

My single concern, honestly, is would his intoxication be a safety concern, and if so, does the guide have a right to know. It would not be in a "ratting the guy out", nor would anyone be informing law enforcement or anything of that nature.

Just a "Hey man, whatever you do in your private time is your business, but you just can't get high before you hunt, ok?"

greensteelforge
October 19, 2009, 09:56 PM
Boy, I think there are more important considerations to be taken into account than a guy's preferred drink or smoke. If someone is unsafe in their behavior, regardless of whether they are drunk, high, hyper-active, or stupid, they should be asked to unload their weapon, and refrain from participating in the rest of the hunt. If you can't tell, and his behavior would otherwise be normal and acceptable, you really shouldn't express things any further than your discomfort with the use of inebriant substances while hunting, and make a personal decision (like the other members of the party) whether to take part in the hunt. I personally do not use any kind of drug while hunting or shooting, and never have. I drink alcohol regularly, have smoked marijuana regularly in the past, and never felt any lure to anything harder. I doubt very much whether a joint (even one of those "high potency" joints) would cause anything but a failure to respond to a target in time. I've never witnessed anyone become animated, wild, or erratic under the influence of pot, just slower moving, and prone to pontification. Alcohol while hunting does concern me greatly, and is far more prevalent in the shooting sports than pot. Alcohol causes a real loss of control both mentally and physically unless consumed in strict moderation (something which hunting trips away from the wife and kids aren't known for). Even an alcohol hangover is dangerous when armed. Alcohol producers even tailor a wide variety of promotional products to the hunting sports market, I even saw a pretty impressive selection of liquor flasks for sale at an NRA national convention in Milwaukee. Every one of us who hunts knows plenty of fellow hunters who drink heavily the night before a hunt, drink while hunting, or with lunch on a hunt, so let's not blow things out of proportion here. No substances while hunting is best, but we don't get to make anybody's decisions but our own, and the real call is whether or not to go along.

NWPilgrim
October 19, 2009, 10:52 PM
You should do what you are comfortable with, not what we think you should do. You are paying the guide for a hunt, you should have the experience you want. The guide may accommodate or tell you to get lost.

Personally, I just do not hunt or shoot with anyone needing a drink or toke beforehand, whatever the reason. There may be legal risks, and safety risks. I don't need that. Some guys may do OK partaking beforehand but it is simpler for me to just walk away from that. There are other times, places and buddies with whom to hunt.

Him offering you guys (non-medical cases) a toke indicates he is more than just a medical case himself and demonstrates very poor judgment. I can't imagine that the guide doesn't already know.

sc928porsche
October 19, 2009, 11:25 PM
No question for me. Drugs, including alcohol, and firearms do not mix!!!!!!!!!

Fat White Boy
October 20, 2009, 12:08 AM
I would think if he were lighting up, about an hour into the hunt he would want to go to Taco Bell... And no, with all due respect to his injuries, I wouldn't hunt with him.

SigP6Carry
October 20, 2009, 01:15 AM
you know what... I'm conflicted. Nobody should mix marijuana, alcohol or mind altering drugs with firearms... but... in a case that marijuana is prescribed medicinally I see it as nothing more than a simple pain killer for chronic pain. I also don't see a couple of beers as an issue, because I know that personally I can drink 3-5 beers before I feel anything other than a stiffness in my shoulders. But I know that different people have different reactions to such things (such as I've got a friend that is solid drunk after 2 drinks).

So, here's my new, rethought advice: unless you personally know that that person can handle that type of chemical in that type of dosage and still be fine, it's fine for you. But, if you're uncomfortable with it, do whatever you feel is right. It's not my place to tell you what your opinions on drugs/alcohol should be, but you should be more tolerant of what certain substances do what to certain people.

Scrap, if I were in your position and was uncomfortable: I would have turned him in. If I were in your position, though, I doubt I'd be uncomfortable enough to turn anyone in. Just a difference of opinion on certain issues.

trooper3385
October 20, 2009, 02:10 AM
Drugs and alcohol and guns do not mix, period. Not to mention, what he is doing is illegal, regardless of what he is using it for. Call the police next time you see it. I have some real nice silver bracelets for him. If others have a problem with it, then I would look for a new group of guys to hunt with. The fact is, regardless of what your tolerence level is, the minute the narcotic enters your system, your mental and physical faculties are impaired. Pot heads that smoke on a regular basis might no feel the effects as much do to there tolerence, but the effects are still there. You can't legally drive a vehicle under the influence of marijuana, what makes you think you can grab a gun and go hunting. It is not safe for you or anyone else to be around this guy while he is under the influence. I would definetly speak up about it.

shortwave
October 20, 2009, 05:38 AM
Trooper, I`ll grant you that by offering to let someone else smoke his stuff is illegal but if Scraps group live`s in a state where MJ is legal for medicinal purpose`s then by just simply smoking it himself, I can`t see where he broke anymore laws than someone handling a gun while taking pain killers, anti-depressants,etc. I know many people from many professions that are on some kind of mind altering prescription drug and function normally/safely everyday. Some are friends of mine and LEO`s. Which brings up a point, are all LEO`s and Firemen exempt from daily random drug/alcohol testing? I know when the Fed Guidelines for testing came out, FOP and our local Fire Union lobbyed very hard to get exempt and won. Doesn`t seem right as most all our other civil servants, especially those with CDL`s are randomly(:rolleyes:) tested.

cerberus65
October 20, 2009, 06:34 AM
Using it for medicinal purposes is one thing - but offering it to someone else is not cool. Now it's no longer medicinal and it makes one wonder how truly medicinal his use is. If he was on vicodin instead would it be cool to offer some around as well? Both are crimes. I would inform the guide.

Uncle Billy
October 20, 2009, 07:05 AM
... I could tell he was not intoxicated, and so I didn't mind hunting with him. ...

In other words, he handled his gun safely, didn't make the boat unstable, didn't set the blind on fire... If he did none of those things, then what does it matter what the state of his blood chemistry was? Whatever he had or had not ingested, his manual skills and judgement weren't apparently impaired, and his behavior provided no risks. What more than that do you require of him? That he keep the law? What if he cheated on his income tax, or broke the speed limit, or talked on his cell phone while driving? Cut the guy some slack- if his use of Mexican Laughing Weed compromised my legal position in terms of possession, then I wouldn't associate with him. But simply knowing how he self-medicates wouldn't affect how I'd relate to him if what he took (legal or not) didn't affect how he acted. If he was clumsy, or unsafe, or behaved in some way that made me uncomfortable, then I wouldn't want to be around him when he was handling a loaded shotgun in a crowded boat, no matter what it was that made him that way, legal or not.

My dad used to hunt and fish with a guy, his best friend, who fell out of boats, accidently fired his .30-30 in the cabin about every other trip, walked through the watch and got lost for 2 days killing the hunt as everyone had to look for him, and generally had no manual skills to speak of. I thought him to be too big of a risk but my dad and the others in the group loved the guy so tolerated his inadvertent antics, albeit while keeping a close eye on him. It finally got so bad that my uncle, who went on the hunting trips, asked me to load some .30-30's that looked and felt like live rounds but wouldn't fire, that he could secretly substitute. So for the last 3 or 4 years that they hunted, his rifle wouldn't fire, but he never caught on because he never saw any deer. I suspect that bagging a white tail wasn't really the point of the trip in those later years anyway, the nightly poker games, dirty jokes, cigars and Martinis, and walks in the fall woods with dear lifelong friends were, the guns really just props left over from different purposes for going on a "hunting trip".

hogdogs
October 20, 2009, 10:33 AM
Well... I am one who will admit that a couple beers severely diminishes my ability to shoot decent groups.

A little pot (doob or 3) only reduces the ability to get on target fast enuff.

I would much rather hunt doves with smokers than drinkers. Actually, I won't hunt with folks drinkin' unless it is hog doggin' and no guns. Can't say no more as the statute of limitations is yet to expire on the other...

If I am alone I will use whatever prescription drugs I am on but with others, I suffer the pain as NARCOTIC drugs really impair one's ability...
Brent

Pahoo
October 20, 2009, 10:39 AM
My single concern, honestly, is would his intoxication be a safety concern, and if so, does the guide have a right to know. It would not be in a "ratting the guy out", nor would anyone be informing law enforcement or anything of that nature.

Just a "Hey man, whatever you do in your private time is your business, but you just can't get high before you hunt, ok?"


Bingo and thanks for bringing this back to your original post. .... :rolleyes:


Be Safe !!!

Brian Pfleuger
October 20, 2009, 10:42 AM
I wouldn't hunt with the guy because it gives the appearance, real or imagined, that I approve of his use of illegal drugs. I do not and would not approve of such things and I will not allow myself to be in a position wherein it could appear that I do. It doesn't even get to the safety question.

FrontSight
October 20, 2009, 11:50 AM
My single concern, honestly, is would his intoxication be a safety concern, and if so, does the guide have a right to know. It would not be in a "ratting the guy out", nor would anyone be informing law enforcement or anything of that nature.

Just a "Hey man, whatever you do in your private time is your business, but you just can't get high before you hunt, ok?"

Bingo and thanks for bringing this back to your original post. ....


Be Safe !!!

Yes, thank you; everyone keeps going back to "turn the guy in to the cops" and "what if he cheated on his taxes, would you report him for that??" etc etc, LOL.

Look, this is the point of my queston:

I hunt with this guide very often, and I consider him to a be a friend, and as such that makes me even more concerned for his safety (I would still be concerned if he was a stranger, of course), as well as for the safety of his other clients, in the future when this guy hunts with him again.

So I just want the guide to know to be able to watch out for any signs of this guy being high next time he comes hunting. NOT to turn him into the cops, NOT to bar him from ever hunting again (either with or without this guide), NOT to get all up in his business, NOT to debate the moral & legal issues, etc etc.

Because I aint no damn rat, especially when it's not something that is hurting anyone.

Hell, say he had smoked up before the hunt, then I would have politely but firmly insisted that he not come on the hunt, but there was never a thought of calling the police. I know that may ruffle the feathers of many law enforcement individuals, but that's a personal choice and it's just how I feel about it. If he does god forbid hurt someone some day, then I will probably blame myself till the day I die (which may be that same day if I don't realize he's high).

So, just simply: "Should I let the guide know to keep an eye out for his possible intoxication and / or maybe tell him before hand when he books a hunt that he must please refrain from smoking weed before & during any hunts, because it is a safety issue?"


Anyway, I made my mind up and I did call the guide and I let him know about this situation, and it turns out that the guy actually had told the guide later that day that he uses weed for his pain management!

And the guide simply stated at the time that he would like him to please not smoke any before or during the hunts, nor to bring any with him on board his boat since he would risk losing his vessel (and therefore his livelihood).

And he was very grateful to me for letting him know, as he obviously can't afford to risk any accidents to himself, his kid, his clients, or his equipment.

He has no problem with the guy coming on any future hunts; he just would like him to abstain while handling guns.

And the guy was understanding & ok with that request.

I think that all worked out nicely, yes?

Tom Matiska
October 20, 2009, 11:58 AM
Personal values aside, PA general hunting regulations say no being under the influence(zero point what?..... I dunnno), and in the section on State Game Lands and shooting ranges further prohibits simple possession. His offer to share suggests his use is more recreational and less medical that he rationalizes.

http://www.pgc.state.pa.us/pgc/lib/pgc/digestpdfs/2009/generalhuntingregulations.pdf

"....Drugs & Alcohol: It is unlawful to hunt wildlife while under the
influence of controlled substances or alcohol....."

"...... Be intoxicated, use or possess alcohol or a controlled substance...."

Art Eatman
October 20, 2009, 12:21 PM
There is only one topic here: What to do, as an actual act.

What marijuana does or what booze does or "gateway" stuff or the issue of law is beside the point. Off topic.

Read Post #1. Give an answer to the question. Otherwise, don't hijack the thread any worse.

My delete key works quite nicely, thank you.

shortwave
October 20, 2009, 06:50 PM
Art, sorry for my part in the thread hijack. Scrap, glad things worked out ok. As far as answering your question ,the fact that you stated that the day he smoked, he acted fine and you felt safe,guess the next question would have to be is MJ legal in your state for medicinal purpose`s. If not, then you shouldn`t be hunting with him cause of the legal ramifications having an illegal narcotic and guns. When I talked to him,I`d advise him of the legal risk he`s putting everyone in(including guide) and if he continued, you would say something to the guide as he probably has the most to loose. If its legal in your state, I`d treat it as any other LEGAL narcotic. FWIW, I wouldn`t hunt with anyone thats visibly impaired whether what they were digesting was legal or not.

FrontSight
October 20, 2009, 09:16 PM
Damn, maybe I didn't clarify something enough: He didn't smoke any in front of me, and I could tell (at least I think I could tell) that he had not smoked any that morning, either...

SigP6Carry
October 20, 2009, 09:31 PM
I apologize for my hi-jacking as well, but I felt that discussing the ramifications, effects and politics would have helped to shine light on the situation. Unfortunately, due to political beliefs and opinions, it's easy for this topic to denigrate into a poorly vetted political debate.

It sounds like the "guilty" party was using it for medicinal purposes and didn't even use, anyway, making the point null and void. The fact of the matter is: thanks to the bill of rights we are able to voice our opinion and concern over any issues that arise in our everyday life and it takes a LARGE mistake to do something that is "unacceptable" in terms of voicing our opinions.

Scrap, do whatever you feel you need to do in this situation. You may feel the need to report this to the police on the extreme (as he is mixing potential illegal narcotics with firearms), talk to him personally (as he seems like someone you know and talking to him about may solve the problem) or you can just live with it if you're comfortable with it (as you elude to being).

FrontSight
October 20, 2009, 09:53 PM
No apologies needed for any hijacks, guys! I just wan't getting any answers to my direct question of would you let the guide know to watch out for him in the future...

Oh, and this guys smokes it for sure, since he showed me the 3 or 4 left-over, half smoked roaches he had in his car when he offered me some.

He just didn't use any at that time or during the rest of the day (small 29 foot boat; absolutely, 100% impossible for us to not have known or seen or smelled), and I'm pretty sure he hadn't smoked that morning prior to meeting us since he was completely sober (at least he seemed to be).

But there is just no way in hell I would rat the guy out to the cops; that's just not me. Does that make me responsible for anyone he maybe hurts one day? I don't know, maybe it does; I can't tell where the line gets drawn.

It worked out ok in this instance; he told the guide himself that he self medicates and the guide asked him not to when hunting and he agreed, and the guide was thankful for the heads up, so that makes me happy.

Dr. Strangelove
October 20, 2009, 10:00 PM
Darn I'm hungry! :rolleyes:

I see that the deed is done already, but for what it is worth I think that you should have had a discussion with your friend and left it there. We all bring many things into the woods/water with us, poor sleep, fights with spouses, general stupidity, raging machismo, etc. All of these things effect our judgment and general demeanor. Unless the man is obviously intoxicated or otherwise unsafe even if sober, I don't see the point in outing him for being a lover of the green. If the guide can't tell he has an unsafe client, then you need to find a new guide.

Looks like your friend exceeded your expectations and already mentioned to the guide his "reefer madness", so maybe think that one over a little. Just because you don't agree with something doesn't make it an unsafe situation.

Art Eatman
October 21, 2009, 10:46 AM
Okay. Resolved. Enough.