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Mobius38
October 3, 2009, 11:44 PM
So after alot of thought and some saving I have decided to get an M1A. But I have a question. What is the difference between the national Match and the Supermatch? Is it worth the added expence between those two and jsut a standard M1A? Please help!

KChen986
October 3, 2009, 11:51 PM
I could be wrong, but the Super Match has a rear lug, and the national match does not. Supermatch gets about ~1 MOA. National Match 1.5 MOA.

Anyone else know more?

Mobius38
October 3, 2009, 11:57 PM
Any ideas on prices. Is the added expense worth that extra MOA? How about the standard M1A? Is it worth getting that over the supermatch and the national match?

gyvel
October 4, 2009, 05:58 AM
I could be wrong, but the Super Match has a rear lug, and the national match does not. Supermatch gets about ~1 MOA. National Match 1.5 MOA.

By "third lug," do you mean THE third lug, as in that which is ususally either ground off or absent altogether, or are you referring to some sort of "third" recoil lug?

KChen986
October 4, 2009, 10:31 AM
Discussed at:

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=209713

Pictures from Slamfire1:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/M1a%20and%20Garand%20Receiver%20Pictures/ReducedNicesideview.jpg

Here you can see the rear lug pretty clearly.

Regular "service" and "national match" recievers

http://www.e-gunparts.com/images/ebay/gunbroker/703070.jpg

nbkky71
October 4, 2009, 06:46 PM
The main differences between the NM and Supermatch are:

- SM has heavier barrel & heavy op rod guide
- SM stock has oversized dimensions
- SM is available with a McMillan stock
- SM has a rear lug

The current crop of SM rifles includes the rear lug and this is used to provide a larger surface area for the bedding. However, early SM rifles can be had without the rear lug. I believe that SA used to offer the SM with a Krieger barrel, though I'm not sure if this is the case.

I had my SM built and it has a both a front and a rear lug (aka - double lug) and uses two action screws to anchor the receiver into the stock. This is not normally seen in production guns though.

If you're just getting started shooting the M1A, the SM is not worth the extra expense. Unless you're shooting at the high-master level you probably won't be able to discern the accuracy differences between the NM and SM. You may even be able to get the Loaded model and still shoot well.

SR420
October 4, 2009, 07:15 PM
IMHO. the Standard or Loaded are the best values in M1As.

Mobius38
October 4, 2009, 09:47 PM
Any idea on what I can expect to pay on theses M1A's? I think that I am starting to lean twords the standard or the fully loaded but I think that I may only be able to afford the Scout Squad. If I find a bunch of money somewhere I may look at the M25 White Feather but I guess I am dreaming. Any thoughts at home much blood I need to sell to own one of these?

Desertguns
October 4, 2009, 10:07 PM
Picked up my "Loaded M1A" a few months back for $1700, new. I then added about $300 in Sadlak Industries NM upgrades, such as: gas piston, op-rod guide, magazine release, and steel scope-mount base. I also added a US Navy type bolt-catch/release. I shoot about a three inch group at 100 yds, but that's with iron sights (and my eyes aren't what they were 20 yrs ago when I joined the service). Oh, I can't wait to get a good piece of glass on top and see what she can really do...

For comparison, the scout-squad model was about the same price, but IMHO it all depends on what you want the rifle for.

SR420
October 4, 2009, 10:23 PM
Mobius38 ... I think that I may only be able to afford the Scout Squad.

There is nothing wrong with the Scout Squad. My one and only Springfield M1A was a Scout Squad.
I paid $1100.00 for it in 2001. Shop for a pre-owned Bush or Scout... you will not be disappointed.

My Scout right before I put it into my first SAGE EBR stock.

http://www.athenswater.com/images/ebrbuild.JPG


.

Mobius38
October 4, 2009, 10:30 PM
To be honest my intetion is to be able to have a gun that I can put up descent groups at 100 and up to 300 yards, and in some random chance I may be able to find a range or some desert time to shoot longer distances. I live in the horrible state of Kalifornia (dont get me started) so finding palces to shoot at times can be a challenge. Any suggestions on what M1 I should get will be appreciated. There are so many choices that it is a little confusing.

Desertguns
October 4, 2009, 10:45 PM
I was torn between the Scout and the Loaded (like I said, same price here), but I just fell in love with the feel of the heavier Walnut-stocked Loaded. Our gunstore had only fiberglass-stocked Scout-squads, perhaps if they had a walnut stocked scout, I'd have that instead. Again, it depends on what you want it for, what you'll do with it, and how it feels to you. Either rifle is capable of good accuracy out to a few hundred yards, but do you want lighter and shorter (scout), or longer (almost half a foot) and heavier (Loaded)?

The scout comes with a standard weight barrel, whereas the Loaded has a medium-heavy profile. And if you're comfortable using a red-dot type sight, then the Scout does have that forward optics-mount too. Either way, you will be happy...

Mobius38
October 4, 2009, 11:02 PM
Does that extra 4 inches give me more accuracy? Does one have any benifits over the other?

SR420
October 4, 2009, 11:19 PM
The longer barrel delivers more muzzle velocity - this is important for long range accuracy... well beyond 500 yards.

nbkky71
October 5, 2009, 08:18 AM
For the price of an M25 White Feather, you can have a rifle built by a reputable gunsmith. Be advised that the M25 has no iron sights so you'll need to drop some additional cash into some quality optics.

M25 rifles usually run around the $4,000-$5,000 range. You'd exsanguinate before you could pay for the rifle ;)

Your best bet is to go with the loaded model as it will provide good accuracy at the short range and acceptable accuracy at longer ranges. Plus the Loaded model makes a good base rifle for any future accuracy enhancements.

Nowadays a loaded model can be had around $1600-$1700 NIB. Used ones for a few hundred less. I bought mine for $1200 many, many, moons ago.

Keep an eye out over on the M14 Firing Line forum as rifles come up for sale in their PX (http://www.m14tfl.com)

SR420
October 5, 2009, 08:30 AM
Your best bet for a great deal on a slightly used/pre-owned M1A is the EE over on AR15.com
http://www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=7&f=134 or their new EE http://ee.ar15.com/ :cool:

Also, Rifle-Company.com (http://www.rifle-company.com/phpbb3/) is an excellent web site for anyone interested in the traditional
M14 and The M14HDW Forum (http://m14hdw.proboards.com/index.cgi) is best web site for the modernized and enhanced M14.

I hope that helps!


.

Flatbush Harry
October 6, 2009, 12:21 AM
I have a SM that I purchased new at the factory in 1979 when I lived in IL. It has a heavy Douglas barrel. It shoots to about 1/2 MOA at 200 yds...wind shifts opens the groups up a bit at 600 yds.

FH

azredhawk44
October 6, 2009, 12:41 AM
Mobius, a Scout model is quite capable of sub 2MOA shooting with good ammo and a good shooter. I got my Scout shooting to 1.25 MOA with handloads, and I had more room to experiment still.

The other posters are right about cost versus benefit: If you don't know how it will benefit you, then you probably need to brush up on your shooting skills in the first place before you invest in such a tricked out rifle.

Get a basic Springer M1A with 22" barrel and synthetic stock. Put several thousand rounds through it under guidance of a skilled shooter or instructor before changing anything. Learn why certain things get changed out before changing anything. Going the "match" route increases rifle weight, finickiness and maintenance liabilities. For example: Bedding the stock means you can't disassemble the rifle to clean the trigger group or op rod system. Or, adding a match op rod spring guide adds several ounces of weight to the rifle. Putting a NM rear aperture on the rifle decreases downrange visibility and increases the front sight clarity: good for paper, bad for hunting or defensive use. A tuned rifle starts to become a specialized tool for punching paper and slowly loses usefulness in the field.

The one thing I suggest: ditch the Springfield, inc. stock for a USGI one, and get a metal buttplate for it rather than the rubberized thing they come with. More versatile and resilient to clearing jams if/when they occur. The USGI stock tends to be a bit stiffer and more accurate than the ones Springfield provide. Cheap, simple upgrade. And a sling: either a M1907 leather style sling, or a USGI cotton one. Doesn't matter. And lots of ammo.

Uncle Mike
October 6, 2009, 12:48 AM
want a totally reliable one holer...get the M-21...it's not as much cost as the M-25, but shoots just as good.

Has adjustable cheekpiece stock and the rest is a Supermatch.