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View Full Version : .410 slug, enough to take down a deer?


mayosligo
October 1, 2009, 09:21 PM
Wasn't sure about this. I assume it is enough. I have single shot .410 that I thought of mounting a scope to and offer to visitors that might want to hunt but have not made the purchase of a gun.

Your thoughts. PS, I hunt in Louisiana so the vast majority of shots are going to be within 100 yards.

Rigby1962
October 1, 2009, 09:45 PM
I have seen it done but I don’t think its really adequate. The Brenneke 3" mag 410 is only a 1/4 ounce and has about 500 ftlbs at 25 yds and something like only 350 ftlbs at 50yds.

lachanceent
October 1, 2009, 09:46 PM
.410 slug will be good for deer with in 100 yds

Happy hunting!

jimbob86
October 1, 2009, 10:13 PM
...... some places, the deer are the size of largish border collies (I've seen 'em! Didn't recognize them as deer at first.) . I would not think it ethical to try to kill a 200 lb animal with a slug generating less energy than many pistol rounds.

A rifle has to generate 400 ft/lbs of energy at 100 yards to be a legal hunting weapon for firearm deer season here in Nebraska. The slug you mentioned would not qualify here.

Brian Pfleuger
October 1, 2009, 10:33 PM
It's probably plenty enough if you do your part but illegal in some places (like NY). Check your laws.

Old Grump
October 1, 2009, 10:49 PM
This is probably the most difficult question to answer since terminal ballistics are such a difficult and inexact science. There are a plethora of stories of huge deer dropping in their tracts from a well or luckily placed shot from a 22lr and then you also hear stories of relatively small deer hit with multiple rounds from very formidable and accepted deer guns and still running off to be found after a long blood trail or lost completely.

Where does the 410 rank in there? I would put the 410 slug near the bottom of the acceptable deer cartridges. I think this conclusion is fairly well support by the fact that it is such a controversial choice. If the 410 slug was well into either the acceptable or unacceptable group of cartridges the number of heated disagreements on the subject would not exist. After all my study and testing I believe the 410 slug is sufficient for deer assuming you also meet the two other area following this one.

But can we put some numbers to it, to the lethality of the 410 slug? If you read my sections on the 410 slug and testing 410 slugs you can see that most 410 slug have in excess of 700ft-lbs of kinetic energy at the muzzle. For comparison that is slightly more than most factory 357 Magnum cartridges fired from a handgun a little less than most factory 41 Remington Magnum cartridges fired from a handgun.

Although comparable in kinetic energy the 410 slug is a much different beast than either of these two well established hunting handgun calibers. The 410 slug although possessing a sizable amount of kinetic energy, it achieves this energy through the use of a light weight slug going relatively fast. A typical 357 Magnum hunting load is 158gr JHP and the 41 Remington Magnum are frequently loaded with 210 grain bullets. In comparison the 410 uses a relatively light slug ranging from about ~92gr to 114gr. So to achieve the energy it does so with a relative high velocity of 1750-1830fps, your 357mag and 41mag are both in the 1200-1300fps.

What does this mean to our terminal ballistics? It means that we have a fast light weight slug that dues to the hollow design of the drag stabilize foster slug is also a relatively fragile projectile. In my terminal ballistic testing into wet phone books the lighter Winchester and Remington slugs do fragment badly. And the one deer I have shot with Remington Sluggers the slugs was recover in relatively small pieces. This tendency to fragment means you may not get the penetration you want or need and it also mean that a hit on a large bone is very likely to greatly reduce further penetration of the lighter variety of 410 slugs. The heavier Federal and Brenneke slugs do hold up better with Brenneke slugs actually staying intact exceptionally well.

Now I have only shot a few unmodified Brenneke slugs since my primary 410 is only chamber for 2.5 inch shells and so I must modify the ammunition to make them work with my 9410 and thus they perform very differently than most 410 slugs. But even in the factory 3 inch form I would select Brenneke 410 slugs as the absolute best for muzzle energy, kinetic energy retain as they go down range, and terminal performance since they hold together much better than any other slug I have tested. I suspect this is due to their heavier weight and what I suspect is the use of a harder lead alloy than the other manufactures. That said I have to give Federal slugs a good recommendation too as they are nearly as heavy, expand very nicely but do not fragment easily and I think would leave a larger wound channel but I have no hunting evidence to support that speculation. The Brenneks on the other hand were used to take a fairly large buck and all three slugs passed clear through the deer.

But when it all comes down to it you the hunter needs to be comfortable that your chosen weapon and its ability to ethically kill your quarry. If the above has not convinced you the 410 slug is an acceptable deer cartridge than you can probably stop reading here as range and accuracy matter little if you are uncomfortable with the lethality of the 410 slug.

http://mcb-homis.com/deer9410/

I haven't used it but would if its all I had.

wpcexpert
October 2, 2009, 02:22 AM
I would say yes, if the distance wasn't too far and the shot placement was spot on. Here is a very well put together analysis of the .410 Slugs.

http://mcb-homis.com/slug_410/

Little different from Old Grumps page.

roy reali
October 2, 2009, 07:53 AM
It depends on the armor plating the deer in question are wearing. In the old days, they just ran around naked. With modern technology, they are able to shield themselves from weak bullets. In the old days, even a .25-35 could kill a skinny whitetail. These days, nothing less then some Ultra-Super Magnum will do.Thank God we still have the 50 BMG to fall back on!:D

Maromero
October 2, 2009, 08:09 AM
Sarcasm and irony. Gotta love them!

GeauxTide
October 2, 2009, 08:44 AM
I wouldn't shoot people with a 100gr anything much less game. Vermin? Yes, but not slugs.

Rigby1962
October 2, 2009, 11:00 AM
One thing I found in reading that article, is he gives a ME of 1065 ftlbs. That’s nearly 300 ft lbs over what Brenneke it self states. Brenneke has a mv of 1755 his would need to be 2100. If anything manufactures tend to be a little optimistic with their velocities.

simonkenton
October 2, 2009, 01:50 PM
Not legal in Georgia.

James R. Burke
October 4, 2009, 11:19 AM
I have knowen folks who have done it. Some it worked for and some it did not. Just myself I think it would be a little light to use.

Pahoo
October 4, 2009, 11:28 AM
To echo what peetzakilla and simonkenton have replied, Yes but may not be legal from state to state. I know that in most Midwest states, it is definitely not legal because of safety concerns. This has been in effect for so long that no one even asks anymore. ;)

Be Safe !!!

treefarmernc
October 4, 2009, 12:00 PM
Yes, .410 slugs will do well at short range. Even when using 12 ga slugs I only use them when my shot range is 50 yards or less such as small forest clearings. If longer range is needed then I pick up my rifles.

Pahoo.
I know that in most Midwest states, it is definitely not legal because of safety concerns.
Just wandering if the mid west laws only excluded .410 slugs from being used. I have always heard that with any slug there is the chance of the skipping stone effect if shot level with the ground. I only use them when shooting down from a stand.

CajunBass
October 4, 2009, 12:19 PM
Ask her what she thinks.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b5cf32b3127ccecccfaf983aea00000010O08IZs2rRu2bA9vPh4/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

I wouldn't necessarly recomend it, but it will work.

ZeroJunk
October 4, 2009, 12:49 PM
I suppose an expert marksman who carefully picked his shots could get by with it.
I don't think I would use it as a loaner gun to somebody who didn't have one and expect much to come of it.
Matter of fact if you don't even own a gun your capability with anything would be a little questionable, much less something on the fringe of adequate.

FrankenMauser
October 4, 2009, 01:25 PM
Since this is for 'guests', I would say no. You would be putting a borderline cartridge in the hands of a shooter unfamiliar with the weapon. (Setting aside whether they are capable of the shot needed, to begin with.)

Pahoo
October 4, 2009, 02:55 PM
treefarmernc
It varies from state to state and would have to be more specific as to what other guages or calibers are excluded. Only in recent years have they allowed centerfire handguns and very specific as to cartridges. Even more recent, center fire rifles in the "Lapland" counties of Iowa. This is the bottom two tiers of Iowa counties or as they say, where Missouri laps over into Iowa. It's really all in the details and really don't have them at this time. The .410 exclusion has been in effect for as long as I can recall.





Be Safe !!!

Old Grump
October 4, 2009, 04:42 PM
In my state 410 is a no but in OP's state it is a yes. Link below shows the states where it is legal.

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=118&t=183319

Pahoo
October 4, 2009, 04:52 PM
Thanks Old Grump !!!
This was a great link and looks to be pretty even on the states who can and those who can't use .410. Have never seen such a comprehensive listing. My compliments. Most of the states that prohibit .410, allow for centerfire rifles. Go figure .... :eek:


Be Safe !!!

plainsman456
October 4, 2009, 05:00 PM
It will do the job ,just keep in mind that shot placement will be the key.It has been used for a long time in the south before folks got something larger.Good Luck

30-30remchester
October 4, 2009, 07:40 PM
In Colorado you must use a minimun 24 caliber and have 1000 foot pounds of energy at 100 yards to be legal for big game. I agree this would probably be very magrinal at close range and a 100 yards I would feel it would be very iffy. Also like others have said this is a tool for a proffessional not an untried weekend hunter. However I dont agree with the gentleman that comares the 410 to a 25-35. They dont even come close for comparison, the 25-35 has nearly a 1000 foot pounds at 100 yards.

zombieslayer
October 5, 2009, 12:26 PM
I grew up here in FL, and have seen many a whitetail deer fall to .410 slugs. My great grandaddy only hunted with .410's.

Brian Pfleuger
October 5, 2009, 12:32 PM
Just wandering if the mid west laws only excluded .410 slugs from being used. I have always heard that with any slug there is the chance of the skipping stone effect if shot level with the ground. I only use them when shooting down from a stand.


Thanks Old Grump !!!
This was a great link and looks to be pretty even on the states who can and those who can't use .410. Have never seen such a comprehensive listing. My compliments. Most of the states that prohibit .410, allow for centerfire rifles. Go figure ....

I have never heard of any "danger" being the reasoning for the ban on 410 shotguns. It's entirely a matter of power. The "powers that be" in the areas wherein it is banned believe that the 410 is not enough gun for deer.

I have also never heard of a slug being dangerous because of "skipping". Southern NY state was for many years shotgun only, and a large portion is still off limits to rifles. We hunt exclusively with shotguns of 20ga and larger using only single projectile loads.

stingerspray
October 7, 2009, 07:02 AM
.410 slug is most definitely adequate for deer. My grandma used it to take a LOT of deer. You wont be able to hit em as far out as witha centerfire rifle but if you can hit em, it will kill em.

daniel paydar
June 24, 2010, 03:45 PM
i wonder why 410 is loaded with such a light slugs?1/5 and 1/4 ounce!!!
in 12 gauge there are almost the same weight of shot and slug loadings and so is in 16 and 20 gauge too, but the heaviest slug in 410 is a 114 grain brenneke and 1/4 ounce federal while the shot loading is up to3/4 in 410:confused:
why no company load a 1/2 ounce slug in 410?? a ½ ounce slug moving @ 1300-1400 fps will surely be a better choice for big game like deer.

crghss
June 24, 2010, 08:49 PM
A lot depends on the skill/experience of your "visitors".

I would use a .410 for deer. Shots would have to be limited to the 75 yd range. I don't think there is much room for error using the suggested setup. So are your visitors up to it?

jbrown
June 24, 2010, 09:13 PM
isnt a 410 slug weigh 93 grains?

markj
June 25, 2010, 04:44 PM
Some states only allow 20 or higher for deer, check the local laws before using it. I think it would take down a deer easily. But most deer I have shot were very close.

moosemike
June 25, 2010, 07:34 PM
A .410 will do it but it's darn near a stunt.

Brian Pfleuger
June 25, 2010, 08:10 PM
Does anyone doubt that a 357 magnum revolver is enough for deer?

'Cuz a 410 slug generates between equal and 50% more muzzle energy than a typical 357 revolver...


Seriously people, if it's enough to reach the vitals then it's enough to kill. That's the only criteria. Really.

Take a look at the cartridges of old that our grand-fathers and earlier men used to hunt all manner of North American game.... and then stop worrying about what is enough and what isn't. Hit it where you're supposed to, it will die.

treg
June 25, 2010, 10:10 PM
My Grandpa killed many deer with his bolt action .410 shotgun. Bead sight and all.

Old Grump
June 25, 2010, 10:26 PM
My Grandpa killed many deer with his bolt action .410 shotgun. Bead sight and all. My great grandpa used a 25-20 to harvest deer with, its still accurate and I'm still shooting it today but I wouldn't hunt a deer with it unless I absolutely had no choice. I'm mixed on the .410 unless it had better sights than a bead and the range was under 50 yards. I have no qualms about the power level but I really like my gun to be accurate first then powerful. It would have to be a survival situation and no other choice. Beats the heck out of throwing a sharp stick or trying to down a deer with a slingshot.

Gunplummer
June 25, 2010, 10:28 PM
.410 slugs are legal in Pa. The only problem is accuracy, because I do not think anyone makes a rifled barrel for them. Between a 12 gauge with buckshot and a .410 with slugs, I would not even think about the buckshot. Those .410 slugs really crack and except for accuracy, I don't see much difference between them and a muzzle loader

natman
June 26, 2010, 04:03 AM
Is it possible to kill a deer with a 410 slug?

Yes, it is.

It's also quite possible to wound one with it, given the poor accuracy of a shotgun shooting slugs, the feeble sectional density of a 410 slug and its low power level.

This is especially true when it is wielded by "visitors that might want to hunt but have not made the purchase of a gun.", in other words, raw beginners.

It's a bad idea.

younggunfreak
June 27, 2010, 06:04 PM
personally i would never use it because if your hunting trophies in MN I think it would kill them of lead poisoning before the wound would

jbrown
June 27, 2010, 08:42 PM
http://mcb-homis.com/slug_410/

Old Grump
June 27, 2010, 11:23 PM
personally i would never use it because if your hunting trophies in MN I think it would kill them of lead poisoning before the wound would Good golly kid, what you gonna do, grind it up and feed it to them in a bucket of oats. You have read the thread haven't you?

http://hoeningbigboresouth.com/Big%20410%20Ballistics.html


I would put the 410 slug near the bottom of the acceptable deer cartridges. I think this conclusion is fairly well support by the fact that it is such a controversial choice. If the 410 slug was well into either the acceptable or unacceptable group of cartridges the number of heated disagreements on the subject would not exist. After all my study and testing I believe the 410 slug is sufficient for deer assuming you also meet the two other area following this one. They didn't match the destructive power of my 41 and 44 mag revolvers but it easily matched or bettered the 357 magnum using 158 gr SP bullets.

But can we put some numbers to it, to the lethality of the 410 slug? If you read my sections on the 410 slug and testing 410 slugs you can see that most 410 slug have in excess of 700ft-lbs of kinetic energy at the muzzle. For comparison that is slightly more than most factory 357 Magnum cartridges fired from a handgun a little less than most factory 41 Remington Magnum cartridges fired from a handgun.

Although comparable in kinetic energy the 410 slug is a much different beast than either of these two well established hunting handgun calibers. The 410 slug although possessing a sizable amount of kinetic energy, it achieves this energy through the use of a light weight slug going relatively fast. A typical 357 Magnum hunting load is 158gr JHP and the 41 Remington Magnum are frequently loaded with 210 grain bullets. In comparison the 410 uses a relatively light slug ranging from about ~92gr to 114gr. So to achieve the energy it does so with a relative high velocity of 1750-1830fps, your 357mag and 41mag are both in the 1200-1300fps.

(2) Does the weapon have the effective range for the terrain and the discipline of the hunter?

The first part of this question is relatively easy. The 410 slug is a short range weapon, plain and simple. There is no doing anything to make it shoot further. Even if you can accurate shoot a little 410 slug out to 200 yards it has run out of enough kinetic energy for deer long before it gets that far. The light weight 410 slug has a very poor ballistic coefficient and thus has lost nearly half of there energy 50-60 yards down range. With the lightest Remington and Winchester 2.5 inch slugs I would not recommend going over 50 maybe 60yard and even then you need to have a good accurate hit. With the heavier Federal, 3inch Winchester or Brenneke slugs you might stretch it to 75 yards but no further. So if you’re going to hunt deer with the 410 slug you should be hunting for close range shots. If all your shots end up being longer range shots I would suggest picking another gun.

http://mcb-homis.com/deer9410/index.htm

My own testing has been done on ice filled liter jugs in the dead of winter when it was around 8 degrees and it had been below 0 the previous night, those jugs were hard and solid. From 8 yards, the closest I shot, out to 33 yards, the farthest I shot, they pulverized the ice in those jugs and I was hitting those bottles with every shot with an old bolt action smooth bore with a modified choke. So much for not accurate enough.

RiverBoy76
June 29, 2010, 11:15 PM
Crghss hit it on the head, .410 slugs will kill deer with proper shot placement, but will visitors understand the limitations of the load and the platform it is being fired from. I do not think the .410 is a good choice for novice hunters, but in experienced hands it can reliably and cleanly take deer.

Pinelands
June 30, 2010, 01:30 PM
The energy is there, but I think accuracy is the limiting factor.

Ive thought about using my .410 single shot for PA deer season, but accuracy is terrible when shooting slugs through the full choke. I wouldn't feel comfortable shooting past 25 yards.

riflearm44
July 24, 2010, 05:59 PM
yes. a 410 slug is powerful enough to bring down a deer, however you need to get within bow hunting range. the drop on a .410 slug is rapid so aim high, I also suggest to use high base shells, hot loads, and you can find rifled slugs I think Federal makes the best ones and they have a plastic pointed tip, those suggestions will certainly increase your range and accuracy, getting up close is up to you, 50yds max. good luck.

semi_problomatic
August 7, 2010, 12:51 PM
If you question it, why use it? Obviously there are guns out there that would do a better job... why not use them instead? A lever-action 30-30 is pretty cheap, and proven to harvest deer.

I've seen a .410 slug drop a deer with 1 shot, but it was extremely close and the guy hit the deer in the neck, I doubt that was where he was even aiming. So yes it'll do it, but I doubt I'd hand it out to every Tom, Dick, and Harry that wanted to hunt on my land.

waterfowler
August 13, 2010, 06:31 PM
Its all about shot placement. Happy hunting.:D

Spectre
August 18, 2012, 11:33 PM
The .30 Carbine- which many folks feel is marginal at best for deer- would be better.

Sure, it can be done, but there little margin for error.

Baylorattorney
August 19, 2012, 03:29 AM
Well of course it is but it isn't BC it's simply not the way to do it. Too much chance of wounding an animal that a .243 would have humanely dispatched.

bamaranger
August 19, 2012, 04:42 AM
The OP states his .410 will be for folks "who want to hunt but have not bought a gun".

Big red flag.

Sure Shot Mc Gee
August 20, 2012, 07:51 PM
If indeed the 410 slug is legal in your State. To put a scope on. I see no problem in doing that. If that's what you want to do to accommodate, out state visitors who may want to hunt the use of your 410. Your a Good Sportsman, I commend you for your actions.

Brian Pfleuger
August 20, 2012, 07:54 PM
Being that the OP was just short of 3 years ago, I assume the decision has been made.