Strangers at the door

[Dwight55]

Last week, out in the driveway, doing a little fall PM around the old place; a car drives up in the driveway. Two younger guys inside, both smiling and as they got within about 50 feet, both did the old "Hi Ya" hand wave.

Not having my glasses on, I didn't recognize them as strangers at first, and when I did, . . . it was too late. They were basically at my feet with the passenger getting out and coming around the car.

They were "Carpet Cleaning Reps" and were "in the area" to drum up business. It was all I could do to tell him we didn't have carpet, didn't need his service, and "No" they couldn't come in and look to see if they could offer any other services.

No gun, no cell phone, no dog, and my wife on the driveway beside me. I thought for a few long seconds that I was going to have to go to war with both of them to get them to leave. When they left, no business card, no business name on the car, just a "call us if you need us" remark and out the driveway.

I'm carrying more now than I did last week.

Just wanted to thank you guys for the chatter we've shared, . . . and the heads up I got from it, . . . a few years ago they would have been in the house, . . . and heaven only knows where that would have gone. My spidey sense has been tingling on and off ever since they left the driveway.

May God bless,
Dwight

[LHB1]

Dwight,
Glad you made it thru the situation safely. As another old timer with lots of birthdays behind me, I am more and more concerned about such seemingly innocuous encounters. My wife thinks I overdo it by carrying protection at all times but it only takes once for things to go wrong and then all your wishing won't undo the harm. Better safe than sorry is just good sense to me.

[TEDDY]

yrs ago you could go out and leave the doors unlocked the lawn mower on the side now you have to be constently on the alert.and it will get worse.
more people more criminals.just a matter of statisticks.and the breakdown of the court system.:rolleyes:

[Stevie-Ray]

I'm carrying more now than I did last week.Good for you, Dwight. I try to carry at all times, now, and am always armed on my property, south of Detroit. It appears I'll be getting out of here in the next year or so, depending of course on sale of existing house, but it can't come too early for me. Even while working outside, I remain armed.

[Skans]

I've heard of several scammers around here doing similar things. Sometimes one or two of these "gypsies" comes to your door, while the others sneak around to the back of your house while you are preoccupied trying to "nicely" tell the folks at your door to get lost.

I've learned to say no, be rude, abrassive, and down right mean and nasty to get rid of folks who have no business stepping foot onto my property. Kids who live in my neighborhood and are required to go door to door peddling this or that are the exception and are treated nicely and with respect - I'll generally support them, even though I don't really like funding their public schools with donations.

[markj]

Do you always feel threatened when someone you do not know talks to you? Used to be a friendly gesture to say howdy.

Some guys was selling meat out of their truck a few years ago, had a note about it from the deputy so I knew they were not legit, they pull in ask me if I wanted like 10 lbs of steak in a box for like 12.00 a lb. I run em off but did not feel threatened at all by them 2 guys.

The weapon is to protect you from harm, not to be used to run off folks, you may get in trouble if you do that.

[Skans]

Do you always feel threatened when someone you do not know talks to you?
I don't know if this was directed to me or not, but in response: Out in public, no I don't feel threatened when someone I don't know comes up to me and talks to me. At home, I do feel some apprehension when certain folks come around that obviously don't look like they belong in my neighborhood knocking on my door. Obviously I didn't invite them, and my requirement to interact with them may range from a minor annoyance to genuine concern.

Used to be a friendly gesture to say howdy.

I know my neighbors and they or their kids are always welcome. FWIW, I've never run anyone off my property with a gun. I just get a little ornery with pushy salesmen every now and then.

[SigP6Carry]

I know how you feel. A couple of weeks ago a scrawny kid in clothes all too big for his size was "selling magazines" and wanted a check for a subscription. I promptly loaded EVERY gun in my apartment and strapped my Sig to the small of my back for the next few days. A little bit of apprehension and being prepared for something that never happens is much better than not being ready for it.

[scottaschultz]

TEDDY wrote: "yrs ago you could go out and leave the doors unlocked the lawn mower on the side..."
I tried that and those darn kids still won't cut my lawn!

Scott

[comn-cents]

Glad that the situation didn't turn bad. Thanks for sharing and making me feel less paranoid about having loaded guns all over the house and at least on one me all the time. I've had people try to see if they can come into the house before and I just say "my pitbull doesn’t like people" they can't get out of there fast enough.

[armsmaster270]

My guns are never unloaded.

[Pbearperry]

More than not I am carrying my S&W 340PD in my pants pocket or in a fanny pack.I even carry it inside my home when our main doors are opened and only the screened doors are locked.As far as I am concerned,gone are the days when most folks could be trusted.

[Willie Lowman]

Food for thought.

If you have guns loaded "all over" your house, you have made those guns ready for use to anyone who puts their hands on them.

As Skans mentioned, sometimes someone will engage you while the others sneak around to the back of your house while you are preoccupied In some of these situations it would be possible for these home invaders to be armed with your guns. That you loaded and left unsecured.

Before you waste any time typing a response about how that couldn't/wouldn't happen to you, try to think about some new and exciting ways that someone could gain access to your home and take everything you have. I bet there is a junkie out there thinking about how much heroin they could get for your pre-loaded guns... Well, minus the bullets it took to murder you and your wife... Then think about how you could prevent them from getting what you worked for.

A gun in your holster is worth 2 in the corner. Or something like that.

[robhof]

One of the instructors in our CCW class explained that the safest way to have a loaded gun in the house, is on you. No children or strangers can get to it without you knowing and it's in easy reach in case of a problem.

[Pyzon]

My driveway is about 1/4 long, and if you get to my house you already passed a sign that forbids soliciting as well as trespassing. Too bad it

[Pyzon]

Don't know what happened but here is what I meant to say..

Too bad that it has come to the point that it is tough to trust anybody at your door or in your drive, but there are really not very many legitimate door to door salesmen these days.

If you claim you didn't see my "please leave me alone" sign (18"X24") then I will give you a chance to explain your intent, but I expect a quick and honest answer or things are going to get very blunt and maybe rude in a hurry.

Long ago I grew weary of dirtball bull$hit salesmen coming around simply to case the joint to determine the level of security so they can send their pals back later to do the dirty work. And yes, that is a common practice in use all over the place to get a close look inside your home or garage according to the local sheriff. Sometimes they ask if they are at the "John Smith" or whatever home, or if you are the one with the riding mower for sale or something equally bogus. If nobody answers the door, they keep looking around for an easy score.

Trust nobody is the rule of the day, sorry if you are selling candy bars for the marching band, but my school taxes are already far too high for the quality of the product being produced, so go away.

But I rarely carry when I'm home, so far. When that becomes necesssary I'm moving to the mountains for good.

Call me an ass if you want. You won't be the first.

[TMUSCLE1]

Pyzon...you aren't the only one that feels this way. I try to be courteous to my neighbors and young kids, but door to door salesmen, and others are not welcome. You just can't trust people these days, my neighborhood(the one I grew up in) has slowly been having more and more small crimes. My girlfriend won't even answer the door if she is home alone and I applaud her for it.

You can also call me an ass...won't be the first time. :D

[Trashcan-man]

I've read a lot of threads like this, specifically speaking about door to door salesmen and the like. I have to say I'm getting a little tired of seeing how all door to door salesmen are criminals blah, blah blah blah. I did it for about 2 years. I didn't do it because I liked it, I didn't do it to "case" anybody's house for a later burgurlary(sp?), I didn't even do it because I wanted to annoy people. I did it because it was another job that I could do in addition to my first job without too much trouble, my family had fallen on hard times and needed money. People treated me like sh!t, I got yelled at, spit on, threatened and I spoke to the police, on average, 1 to 2 times A DAY. I didn't do anything wrong, occasionally I would miss a faded or hidden "no trespassing" sign and when informed I would appologize and leave as quickly as possible. I'm not saying that every door to door salesman is a good guy, I'm sure that there are bad people that choose to do it, just like there are bad people in every single other profession on earth. I'm just saying they aren't all bad. BTW I'm no criminal, I work for a police dept as a dispatcher, and will be going to the academy next year. For my job I had to go through a polygraph, in depth background check and a psych eval.
I'm not saying that you should let these people inside your house to play with your children and look at your guns and jewelry. When one comes to my door I politely refuse, if it's hot out I will offer them a bottle of water. Most of the time they are extremely grateful to not be treated like sh!t and some have even given me some really good deals on whatever they were selling, way better than anything I ever found in stores.
All of you who keep saying that they wish things were like they used to be. Maybe you should change your own attitude, treat others like you wanna be treated, you'd be suprised how many people aren't out to take your stuff or hurt your family.
Pyzon - did your local sheriff have a source for his info. I've never ever heard of criminals using this method to pick a target, not saying it's not true, but I prefer to see stats when talking about this kind of thing.

Dons flame retardant suit and helmet. Picks up fire extinguisher and marshmello on a stick.

[timebandit]

... but when I was a teenager, me and a couple of my friends used to case houses in exactly this way. We would pose as kids selling something for school with an old sales sheet that we got from school, or say something like, "Oh, I'm sorry, I thought that this was Jesse's house. Do you know where the Robinson's live?" If they weren't home, sometimes we broke in; a few times we went back later. We weren't drug addicts, crazy, or anything like that: just some ******* kids doing whatever we could get away with. I'm not proud of it and I now have a wife and children and completely understand how the invasion of privacy makes you feel and the anger associated with having something that you worked hard to pay for taken from you (I also recently had a few things stolen off of my carport; karma, I guess :(). I'm not recommending that you should be paranoid, just that you should be careful.

[Trashcan-man]

I agree on careful. Like I said, I'm not reccomending that you allow these people full access to your house and family. Just saying that they aren't all criminals as some would believe and that a little kindness can go a long way.

I do find it interesting that you used this method to scout houses to break into. Did you ever go back to a house that you had spoken to the homeowner at? It just seems to me that the homeowner would remember the kid that was at his house the day/week/month before it was broken into and you would very soon become a "person of interest" in a police investigation.

[Powderman]

It is a shame when you have to think about people coming to your door with a combative mindset.

Yet, if you do NOT, you are placing yourself--and your loved ones--in the hands of strangers.

Most, if not all, TFL members who have read my posts know that I am a LEO. I live out in the country, on some fairly nice property. Took me a long time to get there.

You will NOT find me outside of my home, on my own property, without at LEAST one handgun on my person.

There's no mistake--anyone who drives on my property has to come down a 125 yard driveway that goes nowhere but my house. So, when they turn off the road, I know they're coming. People I know are greeted. The ones I don't know are greeted too--but in a much more guarded fashion, and when I contact them, I have my hand in my pocket--on a G27.

Once my wife was out working on her plants. A car came on the property. She started talking to the people in the car, knowing I was in the house--and also knowing that I was covering her. The people in the car did not know that they were in the sights of an AR15, with many spare mags close by. (They were LDS, by the way.) Since then, if someone comes up the drive, she will immediately come into the house. We won't make that mistake again.

To all of the good people who post on this board, remember this well: Being unprepared is a mistake you might get to make only ONCE. "Si vis pace, para bellum"

[Dannyl]

Hi,
I live in a place where having a 5,6 and even 10' wall around your house is totally normal (mine is 5'). in some places it is topped with razor wire or electrical wires.

As much as it is nice to be polite and welcoming to people, criminals are so abundant that one simply has to find ways of keeping strangers at bay, before it is too late (as when they are too close or where they are in you home). Many of them start off with a "normal" approach as a sales person, some even in the guise of being social workers (they target elderly people) and are often very well dressed and polite, until it is too late.

My answer to that is to always have a firearm close.My dog barks at anyone she does not recognize as soon as he is close to my wall or gate, which Strangers are greeted politely, but asked to state they business, and only when I have a good reason do I get close to them for a futher conversation, or open the gate to let them in.

What is also quite prevalent here are a number of companies that offer services such as armed-reponse & paramedics. my house alarm is monitored by one of them, witha radio link. a press of a button on a "remote" key will immediately
(and silently) raise the alarm, causing them to dispatch a patol and notify the police.

If this is a service that is available in your area, you may want to think about it. (providing the service is as good as they claim to be)

Brgds,

Danny

[Pyzon]

Pyzon - did your local sheriff have a source for his info. I've never ever heard of criminals using this method to pick a target, not saying it's not true, but I prefer to see stats when talking about this kind of thing.


Trashcanman-At the time I was informed of this popular casing technique I was watching the sheriff's guys spread fingerprinting powder all over the house after losing over $5000 worth of my stuff that was probably converted into $200 cash at a fence (or flea market entrepreneur), but again, that's what the detective said, but he was probably totally full of hooey. Statistics ? We don't need no stinking statistics, do we ?

Oh, and timebandit, what you did awhile ago was really $hitty, and I hope you are paying something forward a few years late when you get the chance.

Sorry you fell on hard times,Trashcanman, but if you expected to be met at the door with hugs and kisses, things are different today, as you found out.

Again, my point is, very few door to door salesmen exist today period, so what is so hard to accept about the bums rush you received ? I'm free to tell you to hit the road, or go to hell or whatever if you invade my privacy by assuming I will be glad to meet you.

I guess I see it sorta like when I am still hunting and you walk up on me, and when I "rudely" ask what the hell you are doing on my property you give me the bull$hit line about not seeing any No Trespassing signs when you stepped over the 4' fence topped with barbed wire to get to me.

Just because there is no sign does not equate to an invitation to come on in, does it ? I feel like it is not my responsibility to notify you that I wish to not be bothered by your sales pitch or message or propaganda, so get over being bothered by my attitude.

And for sure, you can count on me treating you as I wish to be treated, and I just want you to leave me alone, OK ? But the minute you are not in your yard, you're in somebody elses who is running that show, so get used to being mistreated. It's just how it is, friend. And it's getting worse. And I can handle it if you think I'm the @sshole because of it.

[Stevie-Ray]

Trust nobody is the rule of the day, sorry if you are selling candy bars for the marching band, but my school taxes are already far too high for the quality of the product being produced, so go away.I'm sorry to say that's pretty much the way it is around here also. My brother lives on a lake, and he pays the same taxes as me.:mad: And considering what we're getting for the money, I've had it. My next home is about 200 feet from the road, and there'll be no question who's coming up for a visit. There'll also be security lights all over as there are on my present house.

[FireForged]

The sad thing is that this is exactly how bad-guys case an entire neighborhood. Door to Door solicitors are just not common like in the good ole days of the 40-50 and mid 60's. Now a days I would be very suspicious of any door to door folks. The last time I had one here and I happened to be using electric clippers and didnt hear them pull up. They got rather close before I noticed them.

One stood in my drive way and the other wanted to talk to me on the side of the house. I said, lets talk out here in the front away from the barking dog. He said kool and we walked to the front yard. He looked at me oddly as I continued to walk up to their car and write down their license plate on my hand. He said "what ya doin".. I said I wasnt really interested in any services. They left and didnt stop and at single house other than mine. I thought the whole thing was odd and I doubt the license plate even went to that car but they knew I was suspicious.

[m&p45acp10+1]

I had an experience with some door to door sales people last night. 2 Girls Scouts selling cookies.
The forced me to buy 3 boxes, and dang it if they did not last out the hour afterwards. :DTwo of my weaknesses are adorable young un's (I have a hard time saying no to em) and cookies.

[Trashcan-man]

Well let me say first...that as I stated before Door to door salesmen, IN GENERAL, are legit. No, I'm not saying every one is...just that there is still such a thing as a door to door salesman. If you don't believe me then google it, you can even find places to apply for these jobs.
Pyzon - To be honest I really don't feel like sitting here arguing with you over this, its not worth my time. I said my peace and stand by it. Good luck with your ongoing war against humanity...lol.:rolleyes:
To everybody else, all I've got to say that I'd prefer these people come to my house 3x daily than I would have them give up and sit at home collecting welfare. I'd rather give them a few bucks for a magazine subscription than I would have that money taken from me by the gov't to given to them.

Stay safe

[Dwight55]

I'm with you, Trashcan-man, but if you go back to the OP, . . . these dudes didn't have business cards, . . . no logo or signeage on the vehicle, . . . and just did a "call us if you need us" and out the driveway.

Actually at the time, I was just glad to see them go, . . . it was when I was analyzing the prospects that it began to really add up as either a setup/crooked deal or (and I'll give them the benefit of the doubt) just two guys who were poor sales people.

I just wanted to pass on the discussion I had in my mind, . . . hope someone else can use the info.

May God bless,
Dwight

[45Gunner]

I think the point being made is that in this day in age, it is not safe to trust everyone. That's not to say no one can be trusted. It's different times and it is prudent to be on alert.

I was shot years ago in a home invasion robbery when I used to live in a high rise condo. Who would have thought?

I never go out without a weapon and I always, always have one close at hand while in my house.

[xjmox14x]

There's a difference between being prepared and situational awareness, and being downright unnecessarily rude and abrasive because you are uncomfortable.

To the OP, I definately would have been cautious. You seemed to have some decent situational awareness in that you picked up on some things that seemed out of place (i.e. no business card, no phone number, no company car, etc.), so obviously they did not seem legit. If a couple of guys pulled up in bright yellow uniforms driving a Stanley Steamer truck, it would've been a little bit different I'm sure.

And yes, door to door salesmen still do exist today, however as someone already pointed out, certainly not as abundant as a few decades ago. With the internet growing every day, and a vast amount of shopping being done online, people have other alternatives in having stuff delivered to them without leaving their house.

But I emphasize my original point. Just because someone rings your doorbell and you don't know who they are, does not give you the right to trash them, spit in their face, and kick them off your property because they disrupted your peaceful reclusive life. It is still socially acceptable to be KIND. If you don't want to listen to them, kindly tell them you are not interested and ask them to leave. If something does not seem right or sets off your senses, then prepare yourself. And you can do so while still managing a set of social skills. The saying goes, "the best defense is a good offense". However, unfortunately, this does not apply in a social non-war zone. We can't go around taking out all of the salemen because they might be a bad guy trying to get into your precious house.

Some of these posts makes me feel like I'm watching Grumpy Old Men.

[Stevie-Ray]

I had an experience with some door to door sales people last night. 2 Girls Scouts selling cookies.Those are the worst. Little cuties selling cookies seem to have the ability to empty my wallet quicker than a perp with a gun to the back of my head.;)

[hornady]

Being retired and two bum legs, if I am out in the yard. I have a gun on. We also have a long Driveway. Last year about 9 pm , My wife was going to let the dog out. As she opened the door. The neighbor had come up the ramp. And was about to ring the bell. As she opened the Door. I don’t know which was scared more. Now we have a driveway alarm, and we know if someone comes in.

I have what I call my yard Gun. A star in 9MM. If it gets beat up a little no big deal. And then for going out. my normal carry guns a 1911 or a S&W.

[lomaxanderson]

...you ain't sneaking into my house...Period. you my be harmed inside the fence thou...if you get past the dogs there will be no suprise...how does it go :rolleyes: forget the dog ...beware of the owner...

[.22lr]

I believe in being nice. I believe in being polite. I believe that if you come to my door, attempt to sell me something and I say "no thank you" its time for you to go, NOW.

Few things are ruder than persisting when the other person has shown they have no interest in continuing the solicitation. I don't care that its your job. You choose it, and you have to deal with it. Its my home. I make the payments and decide what is allowed (once i check with the wife first, gotta keep management happy) If I ask you to leave and you persist, its disrespectful and rude.

I was a telemarketer while in college. People hung up on me, cursed me out etc. I hated the job, but I understood why people were angry. I was invading their privacy with an unwanted call, and trying to separate them from thier money. Its the one job that I have quit.

If I'm in my yard, strangers are met with "hello, can I help you" from a distance.

If I'm inside, I talk to them through the door.

Rude? Tough. Want to come inside and talk? Sorry, this is MY home, and I make the rules here. I'll gladly let you in if you slide the next month's mortgage payment under the door.

And to those who believe that criminals would NEVER misrepresent themselves or lie to see if your home is worth breaking into, gladly let any solicitor into your home.

If you do not leave someone's property when requested, it is disrespectful and rude. Any assertive behavior on the part of the homeowner is warranted by your poor manners at that point. This obviously does not extend to insults or physical harm.

[N.H. Yankee]

I am always concealed carry armed outside, I live in quite a rural area where you could scream till your hoarse and no one would hear you, and with a part time PD. I also have a 100lb dog with no sense of humor that is quite intimidating flashing her teeth and dripping foam. I also always have my cell with me, one never knows when a medical emergency may occur and you can't make to the land line.

I have had an instance where I was glad I had my weapon as I had a confrontation with a perp turned cop killer at my door. He killed a cop my son went to school with 2 weeks after my confrontation. I am also very leary of females, especially those appearing to be in distress, many perps use them as bait, and girls ain't what they used to be. Last but not least having a firearm is always a great way to break the ice with those marauding Jehovah's witnesses.

[cop-out]

I have carried so long that I feel naked with out a weapon. After retirement my wife pretty well called me stupid for carrying while mowing the yard on our rural property. That was until a bull that had gotten out of a neighbor's pasture decided he owned our yard to the point he would fight to possess it. Needless to say a 1600 pound bull is rather hard to whip bare handed. A .45 ACP does even things out though. I no longer get static over carrying now.

The only time that I feel stupid about carrying a gun is when I don't have it with me when I should.

[markj]

You shot his bull?

We round em up where I live using ATVs, a good bull cost a bunch.

[Stevie-Ray]

a good bull cost a bunch.Yeah, over 5 bucks a pound depending on cut.;)

[Pyzon]

Trashcanman-

At the expense of continuing this "argument" that I thought was merely an exchange of opinions (which is sorta what this forum is about I think), obviously our situations are different, and I have experienced something you have not, not yet at least, and that was a B&E where the law enforcement folks told me that the way these dudes case their potential victims was by posing as door to door salesmen. No stats were provided by the detective at the time, so if you choose to think I am making this all up, fine, keep opening your door to every body that knocks. The others here that have evidence that dirtballs do the same in their neighborhood are probably just as "paranoid" as me too and if that makes me a recluse or a grumpy old man, I was in denial too until I got taken advantage of. Things are not the same these days and I hope you never find out the hard way that bad dudes are in your towns too.

If you claim you didn't see my "please leave me alone" sign (18"X24") then I will give you a chance to explain your intent, but I expect a quick and honest answer or things are going to get very blunt and maybe rude in a hurry.


Now if you take this earlier quote as me being overly protective, rude or abrasive, maybe I'm just trying to tell you that I will treat you as I wish to be treated, so how about we start from that point ?

as I stated before Door to door salesmen, IN GENERAL, are legit

How about some stats to back that up ? Out of 10 door to door salesmen in my neighborhood, are 8 of them legit ? 6? And as Dwight originally stated, his guys had no uniforms, signage or business cards to boot, so just exactly how was he supposed to give them a ring when he needed them ? Doesn't really sound on the up and up to me, but I'm a grumpy old fool.

What are the other dudes up to,even if it is only 1 out of 10 ? I hope none of us ever has to say we wish we could have a chance to do it over when we screw it up.

And people that know me well (and the only one posting here that does is Dwight55) know that I am not fighting a one man war against humanity, I'm just fighting the ones that mean to do any of us harm. How many of you can truthfully claim that your neighborhoods are getting better ?

Remember the part about better to be safe than sorry ?

[Terry A]

[QUOTE][/QUOSeptember 30, 2009, 12:38 PM #1
Dwight55
Senior Member


Join Date: June 18, 2004
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 1,575 Strangers at the door

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Last week, out in the driveway, doing a little fall PM around the old place; a car drives up in the driveway. Two younger guys inside, both smiling and as they got within about 50 feet, both did the old "Hi Ya" hand wave.

Not having my glasses on, I didn't recognize them as strangers at first, and when I did, . . . it was too late. They were basically at my feet with the passenger getting out and coming around the car.

They were "Carpet Cleaning Reps" and were "in the area" to drum up business. It was all I could do to tell him we didn't have carpet, didn't need his service, and "No" they couldn't come in and look to see if they could offer any other services.

No gun, no cell phone, no dog, and my wife on the driveway beside me. I thought for a few long seconds that I was going to have to go to war with both of them to get them to leave. When they left, no business card, no business name on the car, just a "call us if you need us" remark and out the driveway.

I'm carrying more now than I did last week.

Just wanted to thank you guys for the chatter we've shared, . . . and the heads up I got from it, . . . a few years ago they would have been in the house, . . . and heaven only knows where that would have gone. My spidey sense has been tingling on and off ever since they left the driveway.

May God bless,
Dwight
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TE]



Good post Dwight. And interesting responses all thru this thread.

Seems like in most places nowadays, it's better to err (spelling?) on the side of caution. It's nice to be able to trust everyone, but it's not always the right thing to do.

"No gun, no cell phone, no dog, and my wife on the driveway beside me."....
Yikes! I think if we're honest, all of us have been caught off guard at one time or another while enjoying some down time in condition white.

Very glad everything was OK with you and yours!

[markj]

Yeah, over 5 bucks a pound depending on cut.

Not for a bull, steers maybe, broke down cows and old bulls go to the grocery store meat counter. We raise Angus here :)

[Lee Lapin]

The lady we got our last two puppies from has a sign on her front gate. It says

SALESMEN WELCOME!

Dog food is too expensive...

lpl

[Beentown71]

Nice sign. Picking up my new pup for training this week:D

Beentown

[ritepath]

Back in the summer my bosses uncle 70yo, was out in his yard doing yard work when a out of state car pulls into his drive. Two guys get out and start to explain they're in the area looking for antiques and such, stuff like old WWII helmets ect. He replied he didn't have anything for sale. One of the guys said let's go inside and take a look around. At that point he reached into his front pocket and printed a 38 and told them they weren't going into his house. They decided to get back in their car and head down the road. LOL

You really never know about people...

[Pyzon]

Here's something I have used a couple of times when the opportunity was right for identifying legit door to door types. Using a cellphone or other camera, (whether it even works or not) act like you are taking a picture of the "salesmen", hopefully to include the license plate on their vehicle.

You'll be truly amazed how quick the dirtballs will object to any record of themselves or their car and just how fast they decide they need to get on down the road. (Obviously this is only fun and useful before your BS meter is pegged to the point where self defense is a concern.)

Sometimes the best defense is a good sense of humor.

[mustang_steve]

When I was younger, I tried being a door to door salesman (Vacuum Cleaners...I won't name the model, but it's full-metal and shares a name with a Video Game character that looks like a pink puffball). I got a LOT of crap from people. One time I offered up a 2-liter of Coke to anyone that listened to my pitch, no obligation at all. I had about a 5% success rate in general, and got assualted 3 times in a moth (one old man grabbed the 2-liter out of my hands and swatted me in the face with it). I would have been fine with a simple "I'm sorry, but I'm not interested, have a nice day" or "I already have a vacuum, thanks". Honestly, people have forgotten manners. I'm always respectful of the homeowner when I knocked on their door...if it was a bad sales week, I may ask them if I can leave a card in the screen door or mailbox if they change their minds...but I always thought about how they feel.

Honestly, real door-to-door people will have solicitor permits from the city, they'll often be very polite....of course they're aggressivly pushing their product, but they should never "ogle out" the people's stuff. When I was in a house, I just checked out the carpet and looked for evidence of pet ownership, since part of our sales pitch was how much pet dander the vacuum could pick up.

I did do pretty decent on sales, but I got out of it in 4 months since most of the salespeople were obviously shady...some of them selling while high, others practically forcing themselves into the house. Anything for a sale, ethics be damned. I simply didn't want to be associated with these pests any more.

It helps to see how a real salesman thinks to know what to expect from real salesmen.

A few years ago, my neighbors had a few fake salemen force their way into the apartment. They were selling some bogus citrus cleaner. They went to my place first, but I made it clear that the door stayed closed and I wanted them to leave me alone. In retrospect I should have noticed their clothing wasn't on par with sales, and should have called them up and told them to not answer.

Door to door salemen usually dress pretty decently....even if it's a cheap item like a citrus cleaner, they should at least be in khakis and a tucked in polo, matching belt and shoes....business casual. When I was selling the vaccuums (high dollar item, around 2 grand), I was wearing a tailored shirt/slacks, matching dress shoes/belt. Dress on par with what you are selling, it adds to credibility, and most thieves simply won't spend that kind of time on this.

The other note, is real salesmen will have a polished sales pitch, and in general although somewhat pushy, should still be a polite pushy as well as confident and professional in attitude. If they are not, they're probably best to send on their way (an untrained newbie will usually get the hint and walk). If they refuse to, they're shady.