Implications of carrying concealed and having a medical emergency

[Rich Miranda]

About a week ago I took my daughter to the dentist. I have my CHL and, as usual, I carried my SP101 with me. While we waited for her to be seen, I felt a twinge of pain in my back, which quickly progressed. I've been through it twice before, so it only took a few seconds to realize what it was: a kidney stone.

Since I knew the pain and immobility that what was to come, I quickly and quietly warned my daughter (she's nine) so that she wouldn't be scared when I doubled over, turned beet red, and writhed in agony.

My next thought was my gun. If the dentist ended up calling 911 (a logical act), I would rather not have to explain it, or expose the EMTs to it. The only place I could put it, of course, was back in the car. My fear was that I might not make it there in time since I felt the intense pain was impending. But I had no choice. So, I rushed out and, as inconspicuously as possible, stored the SP101 under the seat.

I never made it back. I sat there in my car and 'birthed' my stone. Actually, it wasn't quite as bad as before, but still very painful. It only lasted about three minutes (I'm guessing here, since it felt like 20). When it passed I felt an odd sensation of pleasure in my back, which I think was my body's way of saying, "Glad that's over!". I didn't put my gun back on that day. It just didn't feel right.

Anyway, this situation brings up the implications of carrying concealed and having some type of medical emergency. Do you have a plan for this? Have you even thought about it? (Honestly, I had not.) What are some of the implications? If you do have some type of plan, please share.

Thanks for reading.

- Rich

[Jim March]

It's really no different from telling a cop who pulled you over that you're strapped. "I have a legally concealed weapon, I'm a permitholder, I don't mean you any threat, if I'm going to be put in an ambulance or put under heavy pain medication it might be best if we have a cop hold it, or you might have a secure storage place in your ambulance."

Basically, don't let THEM find it, be cool, let 'em know you're not hostile, it's all good. You WILL get it back unless you really screwed up (like, say, this is a DUI scene post-crash or something).

The REAL tricky aspect of this is if you're either prone to diabetic crashes that make you look drunk, or an epileptic. THAT, you have to really be careful with. But if you've basically got your wits about you, shouldn't be an issue.

Hmmm.

One more case where it can get tricky is concussions. We have recent video of somebody who was concussed but despite that, managed to handle himself fairly well, including continue with his job: Conan O'Brien. Check this out as it's actually on-topic to the discussion:

http://www.bittenandbound.com/2009/09/29/conan-obrien-injured-video/

Look at what he was able to do despite taking a serious conking and not even remembering most of it afterwards...yes, the whole thing is worth watching. If you KNOW for a fact that you need to tell medics politely that you're legally strapped and will let a cop or medic disarm you, you should be able to pull that off despite at least a moderate concussion. At some point of course even that much will go out the window, but at the same time I know of no concussion victim who has ever gotten deliberately violent with weapons due to a conking.

Random flailing of arms, well yeah...that can happen...

[troy_mclure]

my buddy was in a car wreck in Seattle, he was unconscious when the paramedics took him to the hospital. when the er docs found the gun they called the police.

the police checked his wallet and found his cpl. they took the gun, and left a note with the docs that he could pick up his gun from the local pd when he was discharged.

he got out 2 weeks later and called the pd, they said come on and pick it up.

the gun and mag/ammo was in an evidence bag when they gave it to him, still had a bit of blood on it.

took all of an hour to get it.

[Jim March]

Cool. And remember, flat-out unconscious is an uncommon situation...

[kraigwy]

A few year ago, I was having heart pains. We went to the heart doctors and after an exam (MRI or what ever) he said he needed to put stints in RIGHT NOW.

No problem, they took my pants, saw there was a gun in my pocket, gave the pants to my wife, she put my revolver in her purse handed the pants back to the nurse who bag them with the rest of my cloths so they could be in my room after the procedure.

No body paniced. Wife gave me my revoler back after I able to put my britches back on.

There was no problems, .....................not until I got caught smoking in the john in the room but thats another story.

[#18indycolts]

And remember, flat-out unconscious is an uncommon situation...


actually I see it often. As a medic/firefighter I go on numerous unconscious person calls.

[fisherman66]

A 3 minute kidney stone? Wow, mine go fer hour and hours. I alternate tall glasses of water and beers until the bastid is gone. Oh how I hate kidney stones.

[peetzakilla]

I can't say that the issue particularly concerns me. If I'm conscious then I'll alert whoever needs alerting. It's not like they're not going to treat you if they find out you've got a gun. Most people aren't going to panic if the guy laying on the floor writhing in pain or unconscious appears to have a gun under his shirt. If I'm unconscious then I'm pretty sure that I don't really care how it gets handled. It's a legal gun, under legal circumstances... I'll get it back if they take it.

[TEDDY]

I know a person who had it happen twice.he was on a motercycle and some one came up behind and clipped him on purpose.he scided in and was out.the police arrived first and took his gun.gave it back when he asked for it. happened again the same way.and thats in Mass.:rolleyes:

[Don H]

Lots of folks carry guns around here, both open and concealed; medical responders are pretty used to such things. If I have a medical emergency, my handgun is going to be pretty low on my list of things to be concerned about.

[rantingredneck]

Closest I've come is when I had my treestand fall a couple years ago. I wasn't carrying a gun as I was bowhunting and that's a no-no here per the game regulations. What I did have though was my hunting knife. One of the first things the EMT's did was take it and give it to my wife. I expect the same would have happened with a gun. If no one else had been there I expect they'd have stored it somewhere or handed it off to LE.

[Yankee Traveler]

A 3 minute kidney stone? Wow, mine go fer hour and hours. I alternate tall glasses of water and beers until the bastid is gone. Oh how I hate kidney stones.

My first took three days...seriously ill by the time it passed.

[Superhouse 15]

My last stone I was able to stagger to the car to put my gun away. Then there was a haze of narcotics and I got better.

We run on people armed all the time. Hardly ever an issue, mostly we leave them with family or LEO. My agency, the other big fire rescue agencies, and the transport ambulance company in the area have no official policies on the subject.



And FYI, when you pick up the lady for the nursing home transfer and she has that big bag of meds and belongings, you might want to check it before you get to the ED in case there's a Taurus .38 snub in the bottom.:eek: That charge nurse still looks at me sideways after that one.

[Kyo]

unless they roll me over they won't find it regardless. 4-5 oclock pretty much hides it from the front view.

[armoredman]

No issues out here, but after reading these posts - I hope I never have a kidney stone!

[DT Guy]

I've had two stones in my life-the last took SIX DAYS to pass. Two trips to the ER, and two separate overnights in the hospital. Immobile for the entire time, and in agony, with nothing anyone could do-hell, I passed out and tipped over in the admitting room!

If you get one, pray it's not up high-apparently that's the worst spot?

I've told my wife that if I get a third I'm going to end it all. :)


Larry

[brickeyee]

Every ER knows to call the police and let them deal with any firearm.

It is SOP to get it out of the ER and under lock and key.
Many ERs maintain lockers for securing even police firearms if needed.

[Russ5924]

Have always wondered about this subject and what would happen:eek:

[Win73]

I was in a car wreck in 03. I was taken to the emergency room in an ambulance. I had my Beretta .32 Tomcat in my pants pocket. I really wasn't concerned as much about it as I was of the pain I was in. Anyway no one knew it was there. When my family got there and there was no one else in the examining room, I gave it to my son who carryed it out of the hospital with him. (He has a permit also.) No one in the hospital ever knew I had it.

[armsmaster270]

No biggie injured cops are taken to the hospital all the time. EMT's have seen them before and if its illegal to take a weapon into a hospital I'm sure there are proceedures for an emergency where you are taken into the hospital as opposed to walking in on your own.

[teeroux]

Just tell the EMT no ma'am thats my gun I am not happy to seel you.:p

Seriously though if I am ever in a situation involving myself being transported in an ambulance what they do with my gun will be the last thing on my mind.

[wun_8_seven]

when i had my heart attack in 2005 some kind soul stoled my wallet and my kahr mk40

[Chipperman]

Happened to me once, about 4 years ago.

Had a bad GI virus, severe vomiting. I was at work when it hit, and was carrying. Got so weak that I knew I needed IV fluids. A coworker drove me to the ER and dropped me off.

When they took me in the back the nurse told me to get undressed and into the hospital gown. At that point I was too weak to even stand up. I told her I had a license and was carrying. She called hospital security, and they took the gun, mag, knives, Leatherman and put it into a bag. Nobody freaked out , and they were very professional about it. The next day I checked out of the hospital and got my stuff from security. They had me sign it out and I was on my way. Took about 30 seconds. This was in MA, too. :eek:

[Double Naught Spy]

Yeah, I think that by now, most paramedics and hospitals have seen this sort of thing enough times for it to be a SOP issue. Most would probably be a lot more troubled and unequipped to deal with you if you came in with a helper animal (dog, monkey, pony) than with a firearm.

Keep in mind that medical establishments have been dealing with firearms pretty much since medical establishments were first started in the US and have continued to have to deal with them because of the number of police and security personnel they end up treating. Now with concealed carry, at least in larger metro areas, it is probably not only SOP, but a regular event.

[tacticalmedic]

If you are ever in an emergency, please tell EMS or FD that you have a weapon. We will not freak out. Our SOP for this is to secure the weapon in our Narc box, if there is no PD on scene. We give it to the PD once they arrive. If there is PD on scene then they take it. In 21 yrs of EMS I have found numerous weapons on people from all walks of life. I usually take a look at what they are carrying and see if we can work out a trade:D!

[Deaf Smith]

If I have a medical emergency, I'll pass the gun to whoever shows up. Cop, EMT, etc... Hey... this is TEXAS. Most of those EMTs know all about guns.

No sweat.

It won't embarrass me in the slightest. I'll just take the IWB off and give them the gun and holster. Same if there is a LEO there, or guard.

In fact, I've thought about the guards at the hospitals. Just say you need a guard there and when they come, tell them you are a CHL holder and here is my heat.

Now if I was in the east coast or California..... way different matter, but here in Texas, I'm not real worried.

[CWO4USCGRET]

down situation one of the first things to do is to secure the officer's weapon - if he comes to he may think you are trying to hurt him...

I've been admitted to the hospital from the ER - told the nurse to have security come to the exam room - explained I was carrying a firearm; and had them lock it in the safe.

I think if you are packing you should make sure you let someone know if you got injured or incapacitated...

[Double Naught Spy]

In an officer
down situation one of the first things to do is to secure the officer's weapon

From a medical standpoint, this may be 100% wrong. From a tactical standpoint, it may be 100% wrong.

[CWO4USCGRET]

from an officer safety issue it makes excellent sense. If the officer comes to and sees a stranger trying to help he may think he is still in danger and instinctively reach for his service weapon...it was one of the scenarios that we practiced, with simunition, at the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center. Good enough for 20+ Federal LE Agencies its good enough for me to remember and file away.

[armsmaster270]

I would hold off and allow another officer to disarm him. JMO

[CWO4USCGRET]

I am.

[cschmelz]

I'm an ER doc in Washington State. We have, an occasion, had the paramedics bring a CPL holder into the ER (most often after a motor vehicle collision on a backboard). When they arrive in the ER they informed the nurse/registration person they had a legal firearm they would like to secure. Our security then asks the CPL holder to clear the weapon if they are able (they aren't all firearm trained) and they lock the firearm in the hospital safe to be returned on discharge.

However, we aren't in Seattle, we are in the eastern part of the state that is more pro-gun rights and CPL than the 'wet' side of the mountains. Even when I was in residency in a VERY left leaning city we had no issues dealing with legal firearms (obviously the patient needs to announce it BEFORE I find it if they are conscious or I'm gonna consider you a gangbanger/bad guy until proven otherwise however!)

[PancakeOfDoom]

they never covered this in class, they really should.

i suppose if you're having a heart attack, and i respond to the scene, i'd prefer you told me. if you're unconscious, i'm taking it off of your person and out of reach and calling dispatch.

if the patient were conscious, i'd keep my wits about me and ask for it. sorry, but if you slip into an altered mental state and get combative beyond your reasoning and comprehension, i'd rather have to deal with fists, and not a handgun.

if i were on the other side i suppose i'd declare it as well, and expect to be disarmed if i were unconscious, hopefully by somebody that knows what they're doing.