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View Full Version : Just another new guy looking for advice......


Newbie
September 20, 2009, 03:44 PM
My username is "Newbie" but I have been around competitive shooting for about a decade. I am pretty close to being distinguished in smallbore and I have a couple of points in highpower. The reason I bring this up is only to point out that I am not completely new to the sport, so when you (hopefully) give me some advice you dont have to start from square one.

I am currently a smallbore shooter and I am looking to ease my way into some highpower longrange shooting.

My questions are:

1: Will an "off the shelf" Remington 40-XB keep up with the purpose-built custom rifles on the 1000yd line?

2: Which of these calibers would you most likely recommend?
7mm STW
7mm Rem. Ultra Mag
300 Rem. Ultra Mag
300 Win. Mag
25-06 Rem. ?????

These are chamberings that Remington offers in the 40-XB. If a custom rifle is a must, then my options open up a bit.

Alright guys, do what you do best. Throw your opinions at me and dont hold back!

dondavis3
September 20, 2009, 03:55 PM
Welcome from North Central Texas - I think you'll like this forum.

It's been my experience that off the shelf rifles will generally not be as accurate as "custom / purpose" rifles., especessily at 1000 yards.:eek:

Jim Watson
September 20, 2009, 05:25 PM
I think those monster magnums will wear you out and cost you points from fatigue. The single leading 1000 yard round is the 6.5x284 and people working with assorted 6mms. There is some movement to 7mm but in things like 7mm WSM, not Ultra.

Or you could take up Palma where everybody shoots .308.

Specialty board at:
http://www.usrifleteams.com/lrforum/

Newbie
September 20, 2009, 08:41 PM
I figured someone would mention the recoil fatigue with the big magnums. And I would say you are right. However, I can shoot 100 rounds of sporting clays with a really light 12 gage and have no problems with my shoulder or with flinching. Is there a big difference in felt recoil between shotgun and magnum rifle? Does it help that sporting clays are shot while standing? These may seem like kindergarten questions to some of you, but keep in mind that my highpower experience is limited to groundhog hunting and the M-16 Small Arms Firing School at Camp Perry.

I have been reading a lot of different forums and I realize that the 6.5-284 is ruling the roost right now at 1000yds. Some say it is a "barrell burner" and some claim otherwise. I guess I didnt include it on my list because Remington does not offer it in the 40-XB.

If I go down the custom rifle road, I had my eye on a Stolle Panda action with a Kreiger barrell. Trigger and stock remain undetermined.

What? No comments on the 25-06? (other than horrible bullet choices)

Ken O
September 21, 2009, 08:01 PM
Shotgun is a lot differnt, I can shoot sporting clays all day without any problem, but I sure wouldn't go with the heavy recoil of the rounds you list. Shooting 1000 yards is very precision shooting compared to a shotgun. I have never saw a 25-06 on the line, that doesn't mean it won't work, but when your putting out the big bucks for a rilfe, why take a chance....

The AMU uses the AR15 in .223 at 1000 yards and do well, I'm not saying that is a good choice for us, but just pointing out you don't need all that much rifle.

I would say the 7mm are really coming up on the 6.5X284, many are switching over. The "straight 284" is getting popular. I shoot a .260 Remington which is basicaly a 308 necked down to 6.5.

The round I would say if you are just going to have one would be the .308Win. Its about the most versitle, its the only thing you can shoot Plama or FT/r with (now the .223 also).

You should hang out on the forum Jim Watson's link will take you to, the top shooters in the world hang out there.

exercion
September 21, 2009, 08:19 PM
My first question would be: what discipline of long range competition are you looking to do? That simple choice can solve the caliber question by itself: i.e. F-TR limited to 223 or 308, Palma more restricitve for the most part, etc.

Next, I doubt I'd pick any of the calibers you mentioned, as I believe that accuracy trumps pure velocity, and barrel life plays a role as does recoil. There are some great 7mm bullets available, (as someone mentioned the "straight" .284 is doing great work at the long line) but recoil does add up, and yes there is a big difference between shooting standing where the body can move with the recoil and prone where it is all absorbed. I know a great shooter who campaigned a (I believe) 7WSM in F-Open and it was an awesome performer, but even being within an eyelash or two of max allowed weight of 22lbs it was a stout rifle for a long day of shooting.

I am not a high-dollar shooter, and just built my second F-Open gun, and I picked the new Savage Target action (mine is left port/right bolt) to build on. I put a Broughton barrel in 6mmBR on and it's an absolute hammer as far as 600yds (as far as I've shot it so far). Not counting glass, it's fairly easy to assemble such a critter for well under $1500. It's technically a short action, but it has a 3" port so one can load 6.5x284's and the like.

Eric

Newbie
September 21, 2009, 08:47 PM
What discipline am I interested in? Well let's see. I dont really know! I hope you guys aren't getting frustrated with me, but maybe you can help me with that too.
As I mentioned, I currenly shoot smallbore (indoor 3-position, and outdoor prone) but I want to shoot farther and make a bigger boom while doing it. I REALLY want to see what I can do at 1000yds. For some reason that fascinates me. I would love to do some shooting between 600 and 1000 too.
I don't think I am overly interested in Palma. From the reading I have done and BSing with guys who shoot Palma, it seems too much like NASCAR. Not to offend anyone who likes Palma or NASCAR, but both have too many rules for my liking.
One big advantage I have is that I live about 45 minutes from Camp Perry. I should probably do some more research on what matches go on up there and the details of those matches.
You all seem like good folks and I thank you for your time and patience. I appreciate the replies so keep 'em coming!

Newbie
September 22, 2009, 04:30 PM
One more thing.....

I assume that most long range matches are slow-fire. Is a single shot the way to go or will I want something with a magazine?

exercion
September 22, 2009, 07:56 PM
Ok, well then it's a toss up of F-Class or conventional long range (normally iron sights, but there are any-any matches too)

F-Class is shot prone, from either a bipod and rear bag for F-TR (limited to 308 or 223) or front rest/rear bag combo (no one piece rests) for F-Open caliber limited to .338 and under.

Conventional is shot prone with just a sling for support. There is a difference in the scoring rings between the sports, but both can be and often are shot side by side. As to a mag, unless you're shooting tactical, there is no point in having a magazine cut in the receiver as the solid bottom single shot will be more rigid (all other things being equal).

So, if you want to shoot slings and irons then CLR it is, but for rested shooting at an infuriatingly itty bitty little set of scoring rings (F-Class 10 ring measures 1MOA...roughly 10"@1000yds) then one of the F disciplines is your thing. I shoot F-Open myself. Oh, and not to shill, but Savage also makes off the shelf rifles for both Palma style (includes CLR) and F-Class, just add scope and ammo and go.

Eric

Jim Watson
September 22, 2009, 10:34 PM
It would pay the OP to get out and see what is being shot in his area.
It would reduce the fun factor to find himself the only match rifle shooter in a service rifle town.

Newbie
September 23, 2009, 09:03 PM
I'm leaning t'wards the conventional long range. I am pretty competent with smallbore prone, and the move to highpower should use the same position, jacket, sling, redfield international match peep sights (or scope). That sounds good to me. Although I will probably want to upgrade my hearing protection.
I remember going through all of this decision making process before I bought my first Anschutz rifle. Now I have 4 of them. I'm sure that whatever rifle I end up with, it won't be my last one.
My other plan is to start selling some of these darn Longaberger baskets that my wife has stacked all around the house to fund my firearms habit.

I'll let you know how the divorce turns out..........

Ken O
September 23, 2009, 09:40 PM
OK, it sounds like your going conventional. I still think the .308 is your best bet to get started. You said you didn't like the limiting rules of Palma, but if there is a Palma match at Perry, you have the rifle to do it.

Palma is like the "Limited" class in pistol, you have to use iron sights, .308 (or .223) and thats about it. It keeps you out of the money race for optics and barrel wear of the any/any. Palma is also shot at 800, 900, and 1000 yards, sort of the XTC of long range. The any/any shoots are just about always shot at 1000 yards.

A .308 barrel can give you at least 4000 round and probably closer to 5000. The 6.5X284 maxes out in the 1000 round area, I know one top shooter that wont go to a big match with more than 400 rounds on a barrel. If you want to try FT/R, you can slap a bipod on it and you are good to go, still keeping you out of the money race of the F/open. Don't get me wrong, any way you go in long range shooting is going to hurt the wallet.

My choice for the any/any is the .260 Rem, I built it on the Savage action. The .260 is a 6.5 and gives up about 100 fps on the 6.5X284 with about 3000 round barrel life. I have 2500 on mine now and last week I took the Master class in the two day Michigan long range chamipionship at Camp Grayling. A well known shooter Kent Reeve who has won Camp Perry Long range several times shoots a .260, also Sheri Gallager of the AMU who is breaking a lot of records right now. It has almost no recoil, and there are several good bullets to choose from.

If I was going to build another any/any I would probalby go with the straight 284. My Palma rifles are custom actions, but the Savage is a real good way to go at a very reasonable cost.

Jim Watson
September 23, 2009, 10:16 PM
I think a Palma rifle would be very versatile, not limited to the Palma Cof. Most folks have combination bases so they can use both scope and peep sights, so it could be a Palma gun, a Match Rifle, an Any-Any gun, and, with a bipod, a decent F-T/R. Gonna have to work harder in the wind versus the 6.5s and 7s except in Palma and F-T/R, but it is a place to start.

Newbie
September 24, 2009, 04:25 PM
I think you guys have officially persuaded me in a different direction. For long range work I ASSUMED I needed a really expensive rifle with a monster sized chamber. Your advice on the .308 being the most versatile makes perfect sense. I believe that is route I will take. For some reason I still want a monster magnum chambered rifle, but that's another gun for another day.

This is why I posted my original question on this forum. If I don't know the answers to the questions, then I go to the people who do.

Thanks guys

Catfish25p2000
October 19, 2009, 09:34 PM
Don't rule out any 6mm rounds. We shoot a lot of 6br, which is incredible at 600 yds (3" groups on calm days), and the 6 dasher (we just broke the 2" barrier at 600), that was with a fully custom gun. My point is, the 6mm seems to be a great round for shooting long range. IMHO, I would go with a Savage action, great stock (accuracy international, or some other custom stock), and a great barrel and trigger. Keep us posted.

Newbie
February 8, 2010, 09:14 PM
Well Gents, I have annoyed a lot of folks with a lot of questions. I have gleaned bits of info from many sources and here is the result.

I am awaiting delivery of a Savage Long Range Precision Varminter with a dual-port action, 28" barell, 1 in 9 twist, chambered in 7mm WSM. It is coming just like this from the Savage custom shop. No gunsmithing involved. I already have the Bushnell Elite 6-24x40 scope.

Some will hail my intelligent choice others will mock my ignorance. Either way, if it doesn't play out the way I would like, I have a darn good platform to start with for a custom / semi-custom rifle. I am starting with Winchester brass and 168gr Berger VLDs.

Let me know what you think!