PDA

View Full Version : Not SBS or AOW but shotgun pistol


Leapster
September 18, 2009, 03:05 AM
I've wanted a small sxs shotgun like some of the SBS's I see. I picked up a copy of Guns of The Old West magazine for something to read and saw some interesting weapons inside.

First was the Cabela's Howdah
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/content/Pod/05/83/99/p058399sq03.jpg
http://www.cabelas.com/p-0058399.shtml

The second was the LSI Bounty Hunter
http://www.legacysports.com/images/_products/PUM_BountyHunter.jpg
http://www.legacysports.com/products/puma/puma_bhunterm87shot.html

Ok so "sawed off" or SBS are regulated and require a tax stamp. I'm trying to understand how this is different form the two firearms above. What I think I understand is the the Howdah is a muzzle loader so NFA doesn't apply and the Bounty Hunter was designed as a pistol so it is exempt. So instead of all the regulation why doesn't anyone just design a small one handed shotgun as a pistol? I know I'm probably missing obvious elements of the equation that many on this forum will be knowledgeable about.

Tamara
September 18, 2009, 07:13 AM
Because a smoothbore pistol is, by definition, an AOW (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Any_Other_Weapon#Categories_of_firearms_regulated).

jmorris
September 18, 2009, 09:21 AM
The top one is black powder.

Tamara
September 18, 2009, 03:01 PM
The top one is black powder.

Yes, but the OP was asking about a modern smokeless breechloader.

444
September 18, 2009, 03:05 PM
If you want a shotgun like the one you picture (that fires smokeless powder shells), it is an AOW and requires a tax stamp. However, the tax stamp costs you $5.
FWIW: I have a Serbu Super Shorty, which is an AOW shotgun. http://serbu.com/top/superShorty.php I had a webpage saved somewhere from a guy that makes and sells side by side AOW shotguns but I can't find it right now. When I saw the Serbu AOW, I thought it was one of the coolest things I had ever seen. After actually getting it, I found that it is no fun at all to shoot and IMO has no practical purpose.



The questions you asked in your original question were already answered, so got slightly off-topic.

David Hineline
September 18, 2009, 03:38 PM
There are small one handed shotguns available, if they have a rifled barrel they are a pistol, if they have smooth bore they are NFA regulated as AOW, also pistols are limited to .5 inch bore without becomming a destructive device once again NFA.

So the .5" bore limits your rifles handgun to 410. There are single shot pistols and derringers in 410 with rifled barrels.

At the federal level black powder muzzle loaders are not regulated as firearms unless they have modern ignition systems so the inlines that use 209 primers are firearms. So you need percussion cap or flint lock or other antique ignition systems.

rkba_net
September 19, 2009, 10:46 PM
1 - the weapon on top is of course black powder and exempt from the NFA.

2 - the weapon below it is a handgun, as it was manufactured from a bare receiver.

jestertoo
October 1, 2009, 01:06 PM
That Puma "pistol" looks a whole lot more like a short barreled rifle with a cutoff stock. I would want an ATF branch letter in hand before I bought that.

Bill DeShivs
October 1, 2009, 01:20 PM
You actually think they would be selling them if they were illegal?

Crosshair
October 1, 2009, 05:46 PM
You actually think they would be selling them if they were illegal?
Wouldn't be the first time. The ATF tech branch isn't exactly known for being consistent.

jestertoo
October 1, 2009, 10:47 PM
I would bet money they didn't submit it. That looks like a shoulder stock. I would love someone to prove me wrong.

Bill DeShivs
October 2, 2009, 01:09 AM
Just write to Legacysports, and they will provide you with a copy of the BATFE approval letter.

paull
October 2, 2009, 07:20 AM
Keep in mind that the AOW form1, to make it yourself, is a $200 stamp.
If'n ya buy from somebody else, on form4, it's a $5 stamp.
Have fun and include pics.
p

NavArch
June 13, 2010, 05:40 PM
The Puma is no more an SBR than is an AR-15 pistol that was built from the ground up as a pistol. Please do your homework before offering an opinion. Otherwise, it's just noise.

Drummer101
June 13, 2010, 05:55 PM
like this?

http://www.impactguns.com/store/SER-SS12.html

kozak6
June 14, 2010, 08:51 PM
Yeah, any cartridge firing pistol over over .50 cal is a destructive device, and incidentally also must be rifled.

The only commonly available shotgun shell under .50 cal is the .410, and there are indeed .410 pistols out there. There's a bunch of derringers, and Taurus's Judge series.

At the federal level black powder muzzle loaders are not regulated as firearms unless they have modern ignition systems so the inlines that use 209 primers are firearms. So you need percussion cap or flint lock or other antique ignition systems.

I don't believe this is the case. Do you have a link?

I know some states have black powder seasons that require an antique ignition system, but I don't believe there is any differentiation between antique or 209 ignited muzzleloaders at the federal level.

rkba_net
June 15, 2010, 11:11 PM
"Yeah, any cartridge firing pistol over over .50 cal is a destructive device, and incidentally also must be rifled."

This is of course not correct, ATF has exempted because of sporting purposes several cartridges larger than 0.5"...

577-Nitro Express 600-Nitro Express 700-Nitro Express
600 JDJ
.577 Tyrannosaur

and my personel favorite...

.950 JDJ!

THORN74
June 15, 2010, 11:39 PM
Im really likin that Puma. 45LC for me pleeze!!!!

Venom1956
June 18, 2010, 11:23 PM
I like the Puma aswell. I would be nice to get it with the rear even more sawed off... like a shotgun.Even less of the stock. although I suppose it wouldn't be to hard to make it yourself...