What is wrong with shooting and moving?

[JohnH1963]

I suspect if I am in a dynamic situation of self defense that shooting and moving is going to be required. Is there anything wrong with shooting and moving?

[THEZACHARIAS]

Nothing wrong with it, but it'll take a good deal of practice to become competent. Theres a lot of ranges out there that have an issue with people trying it, though, so check ahead of time.

[guntotin_fool]

get used to doing it first,

last thing you want is you running and shooting and shot number's 2 thru 8 hit bystanders.

[fastforty]

Shooting and then moving is good. Moving and then shooting is better.

If you really need to shoot in self defense and you're not already pointed in with your finger on the trigger, you need to move a lot more then you need to shoot. I'd say that moving then shooting (draw while you're on the move) is a lot more important then shooting on the move.

[Dannyl]

Hi,
First, this kind of practice is best learnt first with the help of an experienced person, preferably an instructor.

Your first priority is to neutralize the immediate threat.
This can be achieved in two ways:
1. hit it with a bullet.
2. get behind cover. (and if still applicable shoot at your oponent, from behind cover)

Your first choice needs to be the one that will improve your chances of survival best, and that will be different in each scenario. (one also needs to understand the difference between being hidden and being behind cover)

In some circumstances, you may need to cover considerable distance towards suitable cover, and if it is safe (also safe for others around you) to do so, it helps to shoot towards your oponent while moving towards your cover, most people will tend to duck and generally shoot less acurrately while your bullets are hitting close to them.

The other way of shooting on the move is more a military practice of shooting while advancing towards your target. the principle is the same as in the case above, only that each time you move to a cover that brings you closer to the oponent, until you reach a point where you are at a position that allows you to neutralize him. I am not sure that this is applicable to civilian situations that do not involve LEOs or security personnell.

By learning the correct technique and with practice, one can shoot very accurately while on the move.

Again, these practices should be learnt and practiced under supervision, as they are inherently more dangerous than shooting form a static position.

Brgds,

Danny

[TDR911]

Very well stated Dannyl,
I have been to many different training classes and this is always covered in the training.

[Dannyl]

Thank you TDR911,
Just to clarify an important point, my post obviously refers to a situation where one has no option but to use deadly force to defend himself, assuming that one is acting in self defence and legally.

Brgds,
Danny

[comn-cents]

Shooting while on the move is great, if you practice, I do it often. At first it's amazing how much you miss, but after awhile it comes together, just like anything else. To not have this in your arsenal is not good training.

[serf 'rett]

Just bought SD handguns in June, but nearest range/gun club is 40 plus miles away. I’ve been looking at videos of their IDPA matches and have seen that quite a number of the stages involve shooting while moving. Looked like good “practice” at shooting while moving, with a little stress due to timed competition. I intend to try a few matches soon, since my last training was in the mid 70’s from a Marine Gunny Sgt. teaching us squids how to punch paper offhand. You might be interested in viewing the videos at:
www.cardboardkiller.com

[Xanatos]

I live right in the middle of Hippieville, WA (also called Seattle) and none of our ranges allow this for liability reasons. My only practice for shooting on the move is getting a 1:1 ratio gas blowback airsoft gun, loading it with gases stronger than those used for airsoft competitions to simulate felt recoil of a 9mm, and setting up cardboard targets in my room with foam backstops (don't use packing foam unless you enjoy vacuuming).

[James K]

Many ranges prohibit the practice, for very good reasons. But it should be practiced where possible since it can be a useful technique. The primary goal of shooting on the move is not that it is desireable, but that it serves to cause an enemy to make defensive moves himself while you gain cover for yourself.

A person who expects real danger (not some fantasy "scenario") will always be looking for cover areas, the same way a good driver will always be watching for areas to use to avoid a dangerous vehicle. That does not necessarily mean a brick wall. A mail box, a light pole, a parked car, a curb, all can be areas of at least partial cover. Even areas of concealment should be recognized.

It seems to me that the most absurd response to an attack is the scene, shown in many gunzines, of the shooter standing erect, facing the target, perfect approved stance, feet at the proper angle, etc. I often wonder if he has discovered some "force field" to protect him or that more likely he has never had a target shoot back.

Jim

[armsmaster270]

That's because that is the way it was taught many years ago.

[Dannyl]

Xanatos,
As long as you get used to being able to shoot while you are on the move, even the practice with our air-soft gun will certainly help.

In general, I believe that IDPA, preperably combined with a bit of pin-shooting is the nicest way to get good training while having lots of fun.

Brgds,
Danny

[Lee Lapin]

Get yourself some training at shooting on the move- lest you shoot some part of yourself, or something else you didn't intend to shoot. Gunfights are about 50% shooting and 50% not gettting shot, moving helps a whole lot with that last part.

lpl

[Maximus856]

Don't know if it's been said, but if it has it bears repeating anyway.

Dry runs. And lots of them. Remember also, you don't need a full magazine while practicing when live firing.

[DMK]

Many ranges prohibit the practice, for very good reasons. But it should be practiced where possible since it can be a useful technique. The primary goal of shooting on the move is not that it is desireable, but that it serves to cause an enemy to make defensive moves himself while you gain cover for yourself.
It is a hard to practice shooting while actually moving with a real gun. Even when I shot USPSA we would move from one marked "box" to another, but we had to be stationary to actually shoot. Finder had to be off the trigger when moving and any shots when outside of the box would either disqualify you or maybe even send you home for the day.

[Double Naught Spy]

It is a hard to practice shooting while actually moving with a real gun.

I am not sure what you mean by this. The practice is easy, but finding a location may not be so easy.

Even when I shot USPSA we would move from one marked "box" to another, but we had to be stationary to actually shoot. Finder had to be off the trigger when moving and any shots when outside of the box would either disqualify you or maybe even send you home for the day.

USPSA is a game, plain and simple, with game rules. Being DQ'd and sent home from a gun fight might be the best thing that could happen to a person if defensive fighting included game rules.

[oldkim]

Xanatos:

You should look around. I have set up something I doubt you'll find anywhere in the United States (for the cost).... Right here in "hippieville, WA"

Good Old Practice shooting on the move.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=374756

Like many have said not many ranges will let you shoot this way but here is your opportunity if you live anywhere near the Seattle area.

[TexasGunSlinger]

living in the country has advantages, can pratice all the shooting you want. i think its good practicing shooting on the move.

[DMK]

Double Naught Spy, you misunderstood. I'm not bashing USPSA or other gun games, I understand that there are rules and limitations for safety reasons (I still loved it!). I was just making the point that it is hard to find a place to practice shooting on the move. Shooting ranges are for the most part static. You shoot from some static position at a fixed target or targets.

It seems to me that to actually practice shooting on the move you need your own property with safe backdrops in multiple directions, or you need to take a class. Even if you take the class (and I'm not suggesting one should not), who can afford to take the classes as regularly as needed to keep your skills current?

Then there is the question, is this skill even that necessary for a civilian? Practicing moving first, then shooting from a static position is a much more realistic proposition for most of us.

[Double Naught Spy]

You are right. I did misunderstand.

I didn't think you were bashing USPSA at all, however. I thought you were justifying the claim about how hard shooting on the move was by noting that USPSA makes people stand in boxes before they shoot.

[Jkinkade]

Shooting on the move takes practice,,,,,,,,,learn to walk flatfooted (like a duck) and you will be a lot more accurate. Join a local IDPA club or others and you will get plenty of parctice.

[Double Naught Spy]

,learn to walk flatfooted (like a duck) and you will be a lot more accurate.

This is a good learner's aid, but as with many training techniques, it is just the initial stage. Few people walk that way in real life and those that do walk that way during gun issues (real situations and training) find that aside form moving forwards and backwards, duck walking is very problematic for things like speed, changing direction, or dealing with obstacles or uneven ground.

[comn-cents]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2zYvMpTeqI

Check out the master on the move.

[smince]

I know Suarez International may not be very popular on this site, but I took Extreme Close-Range Gunfighting with Gabe in 2007. We were drawing, moving, and shooting (at the same time:eek:) off the line of fire by the afternoon of the first day. Safely too, I might add, and getting good hits.:cool:

[38super]

Suarez International may not be very popular on this site

Why is that Smince?

[koolminx]

what is Suarez Intl?

[MLeake]

http://www.suarezinternationalstore.com/

Practical/tactical training. Haven't been, don't know anybody who has, can't say if it's good training or mall ninja bait. May very well be a good school, I just don't know.

[38super]

It is a good school, realistic training. Almost on par with Kelly Mccan(sp)

[wyatt3d]

"This revolutionary class focuses on integrating the pistol into the fight at zero to five feet. This is what some trainers call "The Hole" and their entire perspective is to "Get Out Of The Hole". We don't worry about "getting out of the hole" because the reality of it is that you won't. Instead, we get comfortable in there...we set up a nice cozy camp there and learn to thrive where other men fear to walk. We make the other guy want to get out of the hole he finds himself in as we start to rip his head right off his shoulders."

sounds like mall ninja bait.

[MLeake]

... could very well be.

Then again, with my particular MA background, I like close contact. It gives me my widest range of options. I don't do as well with people who want to stay at kicking distance - at least, not until they kick.

With regard to gunfights, I think it was Bill Hickock who used to like to get as close as possible prior to the first shot. His theory was that distance favored the better shot, whereas proximity favored the steeliest nerve.

Cheers,

M

[38super]

It teaches you how to get out the line of attack. That is not a bad thing, as well as resets your attacker OODA Loop

[MLeake]

Sounds an awful lot like aikido, to me.

Get off the line, penetrate, and put yourself on the rear flank. Not fun for the attacker, since he has to come around the long way while you can attack at will.

If that's what they're teaching, it could be pretty useful.

[38super]

It is based on Takiti (sp) blade fighting.

This
http://www.adjunct.diodon349.com/Attack_on_USA/pekiti_takeoff.htm

[MLeake]

... tend to be very similar, when it comes down to the mechanics. Unbalance the opponent, get to a position where it's easier for you to hit him than it is for him to hit you, and keep him off balance.

The actual strikes, locks and throws may vary, but the footwork is often close to identical.

[38super]

Footwork is everything. It is a mix between http://www.pt-go.com/ and Systema but for gun fighting.

[smince]

sounds like mall ninja bait. It's not, I took the class.

There's a lot more to SI than just the 0-5FT Gunfighting course.

[ken grant]

http://www.threatfocused.com/forums/index.php

http://kilogulf59.proboards.com/index.cgi?

[Nnobby45]

I suspect if I am in a dynamic situation of self defense that shooting and moving is going to be required. Is there anything wrong with shooting and moving?

No, nothing wrong with it. Much more practical than shooting and not moving and having your frame perforated by bullets.

Moving off the line of force is what's generally taught these days---certainly it is in Farnum's courses. I believe it represents superior training.

Nobody is saying that standing in the open moving around takes the place of cover. It doesn't. Your movement should be to cover if it's available.

After Farnum's course is just about complete, there's a little test you take to earn your pin. It's rather humbling to see a young lady (inexperienced shooter) do it on the first try while, myself (the experienced shooter), had to do it 4times.

Why? Because all these years I'd taught myself to just stand there and reload, or clear a malfunction. Side stepping off the line of force wasn't part of my "training".

I could move while drawing ok, but when it came time to clear the malfunction (dummy round) I'd just TRB and hear "STOP, do it again", until finally, on the 4th try, I slowed down and mentally forced myself to sidestep when clearing malfunction, then move again to shoot, etc. And of course, all the new students who had no "training" to undo, where watching me with amusement. At least I was only 3rd from last to earn the pin.:D

Now, I practice side stepping for drawing, and reloading, and malfunction clearance. Moving forward or backward can get you shot, while side stepping causes Bubba to have to reorient himself.

[smince]

Moving off the line of force is what's generally taught these days.I disagree. Teaching a 'side-step' is what is taught. Actually 'moving off the line of fire' is not taught at many schools.Side stepping off the line of force wasn't part of my "training"S.I. doesn't teach the 'side-step' either.Now, I practice side stepping for drawing, and reloading, and malfunction clearance. Moving forward or backward can get you shot, while side stepping causes Bubba to have to reorient himself.Agreed with the 'moving forward or backward' part. But, a side-step (or two) doesn't require 'Bubba' to do much reorientation.

S.I. teaches moving off the line dynamically and quickly, to whatever position. Obviously, the 11 or 1 o'clock would cause the most disruption of the BG's OODA loop. But depending on terrain, furniture, hallway, etc, the 3, 9, 7, or 5 o'clock may be where we have to move to. When I took Extreme Close-Range Gunfighting from S.I., Modern-technique square-range training was all I had ever taken.

Buy the afternoon, everyone of us were drawing, moving off-line and getting hits by the 2nd or 3rd step (some of the better shooters were doing it on the first step). And they were good hits.

Don't take my word for it. SI says try it with a partner and an Airsoft gun (Force-on-Force training). See how little you have to track your opponent with a side-step or two vs real dynamic movement.

[38super]

WHY is Suarez International may not be very popular on this site?

[Pbearperry]

Shooting while you are moving is sometimes advantagous.However,what's with these young Gangbangers shooting while hopping up and down about?Every time a shooting is caught on tape,that's all you see,hop,bang,hop,bang.No wonder they can't hit for beans,esp. if the guns being held sideways.

[mddevildog]

I don't see anything wrong with sideways, especially with one hand, although my preferred method with one hand is not quite perpendicular to the ground.

Stay Safe
RB

[monkeyboy]

Anyone interested in learning to shoot on the move should get an airsoft pistol. Its really not that difficult to hit minute of bad guy at combat distance.

I have not trained with Gabe but I know guys that have, and they rave about it.

[smince]

Sideways isn't the problem-9 or 3 o'clock may be the only openings you have to move to. The problem is instructors/schools that teach only taking one or two steps and stopping. That won't really get you out of the line of fire.

[Nnobby45]

I disagree. Teaching a 'side-step' is what is taught. Actually 'moving off the line of fire' is not taught at many schools.

LOL, moving off off the LINE of force IS sidestepping. Forward or backward would still be ON the line of force.

OR: In Farnum's course, we were taught to move off the line of force by side stepping.

The problem is instructors/schools that teach only taking one or two steps and stopping. That won't really get you out of the line of fire.

Line of fire and line of force aren't the same thing.

Side stepping requires your assailant to take that extra amount of time to re-orient himslef to you.

You want to get out of the line of fire---you'd better keep on running (or find cover).:D

An excellent example would be to watch Gabe Suarez on his gunfight DVD draw AS HE SIDESTEPS.

[Double Naught Spy]

I have not trained with Gabe but I know guys that have, and they rave about it.

Given so few people ever say anything bad about gun school classes, pretty much the standard response is that people rave about their experiences.

Sideways isn't the problem-9 or 3 o'clock may be the only openings you have to move to. The problem is instructors/schools that teach only taking one or two steps and stopping. That won't really get you out of the line of fire.

Ah, the "Get off the X" teachings. Getting off the X is good, but as you note, moving to W or Y just isn't going to do very much. Going to cover or moving all the way through the alphabet to A and beyond is much better.

[smince]

An excellent example would be to watch Gabe Suarez on his gunfight DVD draw AS HE SIDESTEPS.I've trained with SI on 4 occasions. He doesn't teach A single side step. He teaches to keep moving unless that's all you can move. That's the rub. One or two steps doesn't cause the BG to have to reorient very much.

His basic training is to move left or right slowly at first (but more than one or two steps), but then we start moving at angles, and by the afternoon class, we were moving almost full speed to all hands of the clock (within the limits of the range, as in real life where you would be limited by the terrain, walls, furniture, etc) and getting good hits while moving.

This will cause a major reorientation by the BG. Try it for yourself. How far do you have to move your gun to reorient on the BG after your sidestep? Not very far, is it? He only has to move the same distance. And sure, I agree you should seek cover (if available), but in the average time of a gunfight, there may not be time to go to cover, so getting out of the way is the best thing to do regardless. IMO, not getting shot is more important to me than shooting the BG.

I think I understand what you are saying, but would you define moving of the line of 'force' vs line of 'fire'?

[Shawn Thompson]

Side stepping left as a practiced technique does serve a purpose.

When dealing with a VCA armed with an impact weapon, stepping left is basically playing the 'Vegas odds'. Most people are right handed, most VCA's are untrained boobs, and thus the odds are that most of this type of physical attack will come overhand from the right side (of the VCA).

Standing still will get you hit. Moving right will get you hit a little later in the stroke. Moving left then (again, playing the 'Vegas odds') may tend to jam the stroke, or at least take you out of the power curve of the blow.

If you are dealing with a VCA weilding a firearm the odds are still the same; most are right handed, most are still untrained boobs and most will jerk, yank or snatch at the trigger. Statistics show us that most of these rounds will go to the low left from the shooter. Again, a quick move in the opposite direction is not a bad odd to play.

There are recorded cases of individuals who have successfully defended themselves from their attacker with nothing more than a 'move and draw'. It was later determined under study that those particular cases were successful because the attacker also experienced similar physiological attributes while committing the violent act as those being attacked, resulting in their own sense of tunnel vision. The quick purposeful step to the left in these cases was enough to remove the defenders, albeit temporarily, from the attacker's line of sight (resetting his OODA) buying them enough time to draw their own firearm and end the attack.

Understanding, though, that there are limitations to this scenario. It is much more affective at bad breath distance than it is at let's say 25'. But it does have a place in modern defensive training. And to the best of my knowledge, nobody has every exponentially increased their chance of being shot by not standing still.

[Shawn Thompson]

JohnH1963 - No, there is nothing wrong with shooting and moving. Our academy has been an advocate of shooting on the move and has taught the technique for several years now; with much success.

The subject used to be considered taboo. And there are those who still feel that you will never be able to hit accurately enough while moving fast enough to be considered a "moving target". That mindset is slowly changing as there are a handful of instructors around the country who have taken this to task and are proving it's not only possible, but that it is a viable and perhaps necessary skill.

[smince]

If that's the case, I like the better odds of taking MORE than one step off line :cool:

[Shawn Thompson]

I like the better odds of taking MORE than one step off line

I'll have to say I agree...

[threegun]

Shooting on the move FOR ME depends on my position in the reactionary curve (as taught by sweatnbullets). I can be ahead, even, or behind in this curve. If ahead in the reactionary curve, meaning my weapon is out and ready while the badguys weapon is not, I can stand and deliver well placed fight ending hits in the most stable of shooting platforms. If I am even or behind in the reactionary curve standing still to delivery gives my opponent the easiest of targets to hit decreasing my odds of survival. In these situations my movement makes it harder for the badguy to hit me increasing my odds of survival. It allows me to seek cover aswell. There are three key factors in a gunfight that reduce the badguys ability to hit the target #1 movement and #2 duress and of course #3 cover (order dependent on situation). Placing rounds on my attacker will furthur arode his ability to hit me (duress). Logically if I learn to move and shoot accurately while doing so I greatly increase my chances of survival.

I want to thank Sweat'n'bullets for turning me on to his shoot on the move method. It isn't difficult and you can litterally run while making good combat hits.

[bambam1723]

Not a thing. We perform how we practice and getting to cover is important.

[BillCA]

Whether you shoot & move or move & shoot isn't important. It's the moving part that's important. And it's not really where you move to, it's the fact that you moved that's important.

Moving means your opponent has to realign and/or recalculate your position to aim his weapon. If you aren't standing still where he expects you to be, he can't hit you.

Tactics change depending on your proximity to your opponent. If you're at bad breath distance, moving to his left or right or continuing around to his 5-6-7 o'clock makes you a difficult target, especially if he's talking and several things are happening at once.

At longer distances I favor the idea of moving away at an oblique angle. The oblique is harder for him to adjust to make a hit and it favors the accurate shooter. As noted by some studies, most punks today are not very accurate shooters, even at close range.

And I remember my early training: C+D = S or Cover + Distance equals Safety. Distance gives you time to react. Cover provides some protection. Ideally, your movements take you closer to cover while keeping your oppoent off balance and unable to connect.

One must also learn the differences between cover and concealment. Much of what we presume to be "cover" in modern buildings turns out to be mere concealment due to construction techniques.¹

Remember, if you're in close quarters with some thug, he stands a better chance of a lucky shot (maybe 1 in 7) hitting you. His odds go down if you can put distance between you (and it's another reason to practice out to 25 yards).

¹ Visiting a store or mall under construction can be educational. What appear to be massively thick support columns are decorated fiberboard shells around a skinny steel I-beam. Little protection in reality. What appear to be thick stucco planters are 1/4" plywood with an applied stucco material and hollow below the 8" deep planter box.

[Shawn Thompson]

"M.O.V.E. - Motionless Operators Ventilate Easily"

James Yeager

[wyatt3d]

smince Quote:
sounds like mall ninja bait.

It's not, I took the class.

There's a lot more to SI than just the 0-5FT Gunfighting course.

I'm not saying there isn't something to be learned, I just find his colorful and over the top bravado speech amusing. Evidently there's also a class where you can learn to throw tomahawks while doing back flips.

http://www.suarezinternationalstore.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=753&HS=1

[smince]

Sure, he teaches anything that your standard Modern Technique instructor will shy away from, like actually fighting with a gun instead of just shooting tight groups in your pressed 511's and CCW vest:cool:

Actually, if you read the course description, that's likely something Sonny P. did as a former SPETSNAZ operator. (I seriously doubt Sonny would ever get an invite to teach at Ravenville or that ranch that used to be in Texas;))

[csmsss]

The only moving I intend to do in such a situation is to find cover. I don't find the idea of shooting while moving to be at all practical, since it will require me to move much more slowly than at a full run. I'd prefer to find cover ASAP over wasting ammo, since it's impossible to fire accurately while running. I don't care what anyone else says or thinks, I know that for me, personally, it's impossible. And the duck walk is just way too slow for my taste. A stationary adversary who isn't afraid of a shot coming his way will have a much easier shot at you than you will at him.

[smince]

since it's impossible to fire accurately while running. I have seen 20+ people doing the 'impossible' at a few of the classes I've taken (3/4 to full-speed, too)...I know that for me, personally, it's impossible.Have you ever even tried it?

[csmsss]

Smince, it is 100% impossible to fire accurately while in a full run. In a full run, one is swinging one's arms, making any sort of aimed shot utterly impossible. Please show me otherwise.

[smince]

It's not just me. See threegun's post #53 above:
It isn't difficult and you can litterally run while making good combat hits.

I present for your video enjoyment, "Sweat'n'bullets" (aka Roger Philips) from the same post as mentioned above:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnrIdpo9odA&feature=player_embedded

I see very fast running, arms swinging, and hits being made, along with using (gasp!) point-shooting:eek:

[csmsss]

You and I see two entirely different things. I see no running whatsoever. I see a dude duckwalking, not even coming close to a full run. In fact, I see nothing impressive in that video whatsoever - he's not moving nearly fast enough to make a difficult target. Sorry, but that dog won't hunt.

[smince]

No, this is "duckwalking" (emphasis on 'walking'):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAHDgmWOkCE

At any rate, the first vid is as fast as anyone will move off the line of fire after finding yourself behind the curve in an attack.
In fact, I see nothing impressive in that video whatsoever - he's not moving nearly fast enough to make a difficult target.Perhaps not to you, but he is making hits, and any hit on the BG is bad for him and good for you. I would say that absorbing rounds is going to make his concentration on hitting a moving target (even as "slow" a target as you say:rolleyes:) more difficult.

It's still way ahead of what most 'tactical trainers' are teaching. Try it sometime in FoF against another person and see how well it can work.

[csmsss]

You completely ignored the point I made, which is that the guy ISN'T RUNNING. He's walking at a fast pace, regardless of what nomenclature you choose to apply, but he ain't running. He's easy to track and an easy target. Notice he is only shooting at stationary targets which he's already shot at countless times and therefore has built-in muscle memory. How likely are bad guys to stand like statues while you walk around them shooting at them? Bloody UNlikely, I'd say. This is an entirely unrealistic and unworkable demonstration in my opinion.

Show me someone in a flat-out run, firing at and hitting targets and you'll get my attention. That video shows nothing of the kind.

[NCPatrolAR]

What are "good combat hits"? Not really able to take a good look at the target in that video, but it looks like a hit anywhere on the paper is sufficient.

[smince]

What are "good combat hits"? Not really able to take a good look at the target in that video, but it looks like a hit anywhere on the paper is sufficient.While I've not personally trained with Roger (yet), I have trained with 11-12 guys who have. They (and he, I've been told) can keep their shots in a paper plate size group while moving (at whatever speed you consider that on the video to be).

[markj]

My plan is to try to avoid gun fights. People can get hurt.





Disclaimer:
This method works well for me, do not attempt to try this in real life unless you recive the proper training.

[rduckwor]

Wow! Major thread drift and a real ******* match to boot.

Anyway, there was an SI course at our club last weekend. Pretty well attended judging from the cars. I was otherwise occupied shooting the IDPA match and moving while I was shooting.

Bottom line:

To be proficient at moving and shooting AND GETTING THE NECESSARY HITS, it take a bit of instruction, and lots of practice. Shooting IDPA or USPSA is pretty decent practice and fun as well. There are plenty of people to evaluate and offer constructive criticism.

And if you think USPSA involves running from one box to another and then shooting, you haven't been to the right matches.

[NCPatrolAR]

While I've not personally trained with Roger (yet), I have trained with 11-12 guys who have. They (and he, I've been told) can keep their shots in a paper plate size group while moving (at whatever speed you consider that on the video to be).


Thanks

[smince]

Anyway, there was an SI course at our club last weekend. Pretty well attended judging from the cars. I was otherwise occupied shooting the IDPA match and moving while I was shooting.I know a couple of the guys that were there. I didn't get to make this one.

[threegun]

He's easy to track and an easy target.

I tried the home version of FoF (me vs my buddy with airsoft) and the above statement is true up until you add the part about getting shot back at by the swiftly moving target. Now add a pinch of YOU MIGHT DIE to the equation and it ain't gonna be easy.

Funny how some folks make such fuss over the speed of movement in the video yet completely discount the documented effects of duress on ones shooting ability by making the above statement.

[smince]

Some more pot-stirring:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rT4FMIIsndQ&feature=related