View Full Version : sights
September 11, 2009, 02:09 PM
Fellows, I'm new here, and this is my first posting, so be kind, Hah. I just purchased a Stag Arms, model 5, in 6.8 SPC, with their M-1 rear sight. My first outing was less than an hour ago, and it is clear to me that any more shooting before I deal with the sight issue is a waste of ammo. I am a VN vet, grunt, so I am no stranger to this type gun, but as time has passed and the platform remains relatively unchanged, sadly my eyes have, and considerably. That front sight post is a fuzzy blob, and I have trouble finding the true top of it. Is there a sighting system for those of us with old man's eyes, that won't be obstructed by the front sight, and allow me to adjust for my vision, that is made for this type gun? I don't really have the time and money to experiment, and was musing, when the light went off! I figured there must be a place on the web, full of knowledgeable people who would help. My background in shooting since the service has been mostly M/L'S that I make. I bought this gun for the pure enjoyment of shooting, and it performs as you would expect, flawlessly! Now, if I can just get this sight thing cleared up. Thank you.
September 11, 2009, 02:58 PM
I'm 53 and use both iron and electronic sights. EOTech and Aimpoint are both combat proven and each has advantages over the other.
On the plus side EOTechs are rugged cost less than an Aimpoint when you include the mount, have a more open sight picture, and a much better reticle. On the minus side battery life is limited to 600-1000 hours. Not really a big deal to me. And the circle dot reticle is pixelated which bothers some people. $350-500 depending on the model.
On the plus side an Aimpoint CompML3 is rugged as heck if used with a good mount like a LaRue and has a 50,000 hour battery life. On the minus side is a bit narrow field of view that is somewhat made up for because both styles are used with both eyes open, and a simple 2 MOA or 4 MOA dot reticle. $450-700 depending on the model and mount.
Both are super fast on target with maybe a slight edge to the EOTech. Either can be mounted so the front post is centered or in the lower 1/3 depending on the mount or model. The aiming dot floats based on where your eye is.
The third choice is a true 1-4x scope. You mount where the crosshairs are just touching the tip of the front sight at 1x, and above 2.5x the front sight won't even be visible. At the low end Millet makes the 1-4x24 DMS ($220 plus $85-200 for a mount). These are very popular with 3 gun match shooters and use a circle dot reticle for speed but are looooong and are so-so optically. At the mid-high price range Burris makes the XTR 1-4x24. Optically excellent, reasonably sized but with so-so controls. A step up is a 1-4x24 Trijicon.
This is an EOTech mounted high for a 1/3 co-witness with the front sight.
This is a Burris 1-4x24 XTR mounted at sight level.
Note that there are a ton counterfeit Amipoints and EOTechs on the market so buy from a reputable source.
September 11, 2009, 04:04 PM
Sholling, Thank you for the reply. Its a lot of information to chew on, but it all tastes good. I like the way the EOTech fits on the gun, It doesn't look too obtrusive. If you were forced to make a choice, which way would you go? I don't have the rail system on the forestock, just the standard grip. Would something like you have fit over my forestock, when it is mounted that far forward? Thanks again!
September 11, 2009, 04:48 PM
The EOTech's built in mount ends right where my flattop rail ends and floats over the handguard rails. The also come in fully co-witnessed and 1/3 co-witnessed models. The reason that I have it as far forward as it is, is so that I can someday mount a 3x magnifier behind it. I just have a bit of saving to do because the magnifiers are expensive. You mount the magnifier so that it can either flip to the side out of the way or slip off when not needed.
As far as what to buy that's a personal choice thing. If you were more concerned with home defense at under 200yds than with hunting then either the EOTech or Aimpoint. If your goal is hunting and while still being able to use it for home defense then a 1-4x scope with a true 1x low end. But that's just my opinion. I've never fired a shot in anger. The nice thing is that with a good mount like those by LaRue ($$$) the scope should return to within 1 MOA of zero when returned to the same slot in the rail so you could actually switch between an EOTech/Aimpoint and a hunting scope if money allowed.
So many choices and so little money. :eek:
September 12, 2009, 10:56 AM
Sholling, This probably sounds like a stupid question, but for the last forty years, except for a few short intervals, I have been hunting with wooden bows and arrows, and eighteenth flintlocks, that I make myself, so I'm really scrambling to get up to speed with all this high-tech gear. My question: Is there some kind of focusing devise on these type electronic sights, to account for different individuals eyesight, for example, some old guy that now has to wear bi-focals. Thanks again, I really do appreciate your taking the time to answer my questions.
September 12, 2009, 12:09 PM
No focus is required with an electronic sight because there is no magnification involved. It's like looking through a window with a dot or circle dot floating in the air ahead of you. The red dot (Aimpoint) or circle-dot (EOTech) just floats and follows your eye. If you raise your head a fraction of an inch to look over the front sight post the dot will float up over the front sight while staying on target. They aren't scopes - they are electronic gunsites not unlike what a fighter pilot used during Korea. If you need glasses you wear your glasses.
I'm told that a astigmatism can effect the shape of the red dot in an Aimpoint but I have no personal experience. You can get an idea what a simple red dot sight will look like by looking through a cheap $50 red dot at the store. They work the same way an Aimpoint works. It's just that an Aimpoint is built to survive WWIII while the $50 sight is built to survive until they get your money. The 2 or 4 MOA dot might help you or hurt you I just don't know but the 4 MOA will be fast up close but sacrifice fine shots by covering 4" of the target at 100yds. Also note that there are cheaper brands like Burris with several non-ruggedized but still good styles of red dot sights. Just keep in mind that AR15 mounts may be an issue with some of them.
It's harder to illustrate how an EOTech works because uniquely it actually projects a holographic sight within itself, but it appears to be projected ahead of you. It's pixilated but I sill like it a lot. There are several reticle styles but the most popular projects a 65MOA circle as a course aiming point for very up close and personal, and a 1 MOA dot in the center for fine accuracy. The circle also draws your eye to the dot, and acts as a course range finder. FWIW Bushnell sells a Bushnell branded non-ruggedized version of EOTech at a fair discount if that fits your needs. If you go with an EOTech you'll have to decide which style and battery type. I went with one that uses AA batteries but there is a new compact style ($$$) available.
Both EOTech and Aimpoint now offer micro versions for around $500 that are smaller and weigh far less. The little micro Aimpoint is only like 4oz plus mount but a good mount will set you back $100. My advice is to do a ton of homework before spending your hard earned money. The numbers of styles, models, and options is dizzying.
On a different subject the scopes that I mentioned are true scopes and do need you to focus the crosshairs to your eye but have no focus for the target. They depend on you wearing your glasses. :cool:
This is the reticle for used in the Burris 1-4x24 XTR
September 12, 2009, 01:30 PM
By the way that flintlock is beautiful!!!
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