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jwalker497
September 6, 2009, 09:35 PM
I have a few questions regarding a Mini 14 .223 as a SHTF rifle.

1. What type of defensive round chambered in .223,choose FMJ or JHPs?
2. Also what grain and brands would be recommended.
3. Lastly would you choose a 7.62 or a 5.56(223) in a SHTF type of scenario
4. Can you reccomend a simple Red Dot sight that will mount with the stock rings the mini 14 comes with.
5. Do you feel that a .223 would be sufficient man stopper or would a 7.62 or .308 be better suited for that job?

Uncle H
September 6, 2009, 09:47 PM
I have a Mini-30 that I'd use as a SHTF weapon before using anything in .223.

7.62 w/123gr. soft point is a more devastating round than the .223 any day.

Both the Mini Rugers aren't known for their superb accuracy.

You can get Pickitinny (SP?) mounts for the Mini's and use almost any type of scope be it red dot or glass.

A .308 would be a better choice and several of the black gun makers offer AR platforms in .308. More expensive to shoot though. :)

MosinM38
September 7, 2009, 07:43 AM
I didn't vote, but am up for option #5.

.223 with Sofpoints.

edrice
September 7, 2009, 07:47 AM
I voted FMJ because the softpoint option wasn't there. Usually HPs offer very rapid exlosive expansion for small varmint shooting and probably wouldn't be very good as a defensive round, so I went with the FMJs.

Ed

Art Eatman
September 7, 2009, 09:22 AM
"SHTF" is silly. Let's call it defensive use, okay? Far more realistic.

I didn't sign the Geneva Convention. Hunting ammo works better than military ammo for clean, ethical kills on Bambi. While I'm not concerned about clean and ethical on Bad Guys, I am concerned about effectiveness.

Ergo, I'd use hunting ammo. I always used 55-grain soft points in my Minis. Worked well on coyotes and jackrabbits...

LateNightFlight
September 7, 2009, 10:02 AM
I'd use hunting ammo.

+1

Modern varmint rounds would do well in most scenarios.

mesabi
September 7, 2009, 11:32 AM
100 grain broadheads and .22LR

KMO
September 7, 2009, 02:27 PM
The mil-spec bulk deal rounds are usually the most available, and the least expensive. And, because they are mil-spec, they will obviously do the job should some traumatic event ever occur, requiring these rounds to be used for defensive purposes. Consequently, these are what I typically purchase. Life should be simple, right? ;)

mesabi
September 7, 2009, 02:30 PM
Get yourself some Lake City Arsenal. If the military uses it then it should work huh?

KMO
September 7, 2009, 09:29 PM
I've gone through boxes of these from J & G Sales...never one problem...

http://www.jgsales.com/product_info.php/ammo-for-rifles/223-rem-5-56mm-nato-/p/223-us-military-contractor-55gr-fmj-ammo%2C-1000-round-case-/cPath/12_38/products_id/1803

sholling
September 7, 2009, 09:58 PM
I put down FMJ just for the price. It's more likely that you'll have plenty around and practice with it but really you should have plenty of JSP or JHP laying around for an emergency.

I don't like scopes or red dots on a mini. Cheek weld becomes too much of a challenge unless you invest in a Karston adjustable cheek rest or the like. I'd go with iron sights because they are reliable and the mini is a 150yd rifle. If you want a red dot then save up for an AR15. If you do go with a Mini then spend the money to invest in factory magazines. The aftermarket magazines are too iffy.

blume357
September 8, 2009, 07:28 AM
must be a more liberal environment around here.

I'll go .223 in fmj.

I re-read all your questions....

308 will always be a better 'man stopper' than the other choices....

Red dot or any electrical sighting device on a true defensive gun is just silly in my opinion... what do you do when the battery runs out?

GONIF
September 8, 2009, 01:58 PM
If your going to use soft point/hollow point ammo ,make sure your rifle feed them 100%. that said you will find that M193 55 grain works very well ,I have personaly seen the results and it will work on bad guys very efectively under 150 yards . if your going after targets over 150 yards than that would be offensive ,not defensive . and that distance would make the Mini a poor choice due to the lack of accuracy .

Art Eatman
September 8, 2009, 03:04 PM
Here's the way I look at this whole defensive-use deal: First off, it's not gonna happen more than once or maybe two times in one's whole life. So it's not gonna take a whole bunch of ammo--and thus cost is no big deal.

I'm a hunter and a plinker. I've been reloading for almost sixty years. The "stockpile" is of hunting bullets.

Why bother worrying about which .223 ammo to use? If it makes a coyote's innards all yucky, isn't that good enough for Bad Guys?

God invented the .22 rimfire to keep me tuned up for coordination of trigger finger and sight picture. Cheep, cheep, cheep. :)

Come and take it.
September 8, 2009, 03:27 PM
cheap russian softpoint ammo would be the best choice. Only downside is flattening of the lead tips in a magazine.

Skans
September 8, 2009, 03:44 PM
.223 is my last choice. 7.62 would be better, and .308 even better.

The problem is mixing a Mini-14 with anything other than .223.

Mini-14 is good for .223
AK-47 is good for 7.62x39
HK, FAL, or M1A for .308

Just depends on what S hits the fan. If the global economy collapses and people are starving and dying of disease, I'll be up in the mountains living off the grid with my HAC-7 (308) or FAL and a .22.

If the Mexi-Chi Zombies invade our borders, I'm going with my AK - at least spare ammo will be available if I zap some BG's.

If it's a home-grown civil war, than I'll stick with .223

FishEngineer
September 8, 2009, 03:52 PM
How about the newer Mini 14 chambered in 6.8 SPC? I have had good results with mine and 20 round magazines are now available.

Skans
September 8, 2009, 04:10 PM
6.8 is a good round, especially for the Mini-14. But, in a SHTF scenario - I wouldn't want to be out there looking or 6.8 ammo. It wasn't my scenario, but just saying...

Edward429451
September 8, 2009, 05:43 PM
I would have to go with the 223 FMJ as being the more versatile bullet with less chance of failure to penetrate.

It can't really be compared to a .308 which has it all over the .223!!

But for your scenario...(:D) both. The (multiple) 223's give the guy with the .308 time to work.;)

GONIF
September 8, 2009, 06:16 PM
the government will have confiscated all weapons and ammo long B4 THAT kind of Sh*t hits the fan . so this is a moot point . they are in control,and there ain't a damn thing we can do about it .

sholling
September 8, 2009, 07:18 PM
Just a suggestion let's drop the end of the world stuff and stay with self defense and hunting so the mods don't have to close the thread.

Come and take it.
September 8, 2009, 07:39 PM
the government will have confiscated all weapons and ammo long B4 THAT kind of Sh*t hits the fan . so this is a moot point . they are in control,and there ain't a damn thing we can do about it .


The US military and government are stretched to the breaking point. It is completely and utterly dependent right now on the taxpayer more than it ever has at any time in history. Even moderate friction from the citizenry will cripple the nations ability to enforce martial law over broad areas or even sustain its current military committments abroad.

It was hard enough to pull it off in one city like New Orleans. It would be impossible to do it across the country.

8 years in Afganistan and there are still mountian goats jumping from cliff to cliff with AK47s and RPGs. Most of the countryside is still not pacified and it is looking like the process is going to be a bloody one. And all that under the military hammer of the greatest nation on Earth.

Ignition Override
September 8, 2009, 08:06 PM
My SKS (always has an attached magazine) Sport Utility Rifle, or Mini 30 SUR.

For harder-hitting ammo, my Lee-Enfield #5 and #4 classic hunting rifles as back-ups following a natural disaster etc.

Dr Raoul Duke
September 9, 2009, 02:03 AM
If I ever find myself in a situation where leaving the big cities in central California to a retreat farther north and at higher elevation is advisable, I would be reluctant to go out toting a military looking rifle in the face of LEOs and the National Guard. So, my first choice is a 7.62x63 (good old .30-06) Remington Model 700 with a modest Leupold scope. My back up rifle would be another 7.62, that being a 1953 vintage Winchester Model 1894 in .30WCF. Nobody up in the Sierra Nevada mountains would deny a good old boy his .30-30 Winchester. (What is the metric call out for the .30 WCF? Something like 7.62x52R?) Then we would come to the rifle that would pretty much be my full time companion, that being my Ruger 10/22. No other firearm I own would be as useful on a daily basis as that little carbine, and since my whole "family group" has learned to shoot it, and own others like it, I'll be in good company. No two firearms make a better pair in a situation where one has to live off the land than a good rifle in .22 LR and either a revolver or semi-auto pistol in a good SD chambering. I've been all over the wild lands of North America from Kentucky to the Washington Cascades, and with a good .22 LR too keep me fed, and either a .357, .41 or .44 Magnum revolver with a something like a 6 inch barrel for protection; I've felt little want.

The chances of finding the need to leave so-called "civilization" behind for a greater or lesser period in a more rustic environment are slim. But, if say the Hayward fault line was to cut loose (a much less active and heavier loaded fault line than the San Andreas that runs under the millions in the East Bay), that would cause something like 12 million refugees to pour into the Central Valley; having a small refuge in the Sierras to go to is not a bad idea. Being armed and able to protect the young, the weak, and all the supplies one would take is only prudent. My best suggestion is that if you ever find yourself having to do so, appearing more like the "good old boy", and less the commando, will probably cause you fewer problems with outback law enforcement and the National Guard.:)


Dr. Raoul Duke
Gonzo Forever