AARP members; legitimate threats?

[MLeake]

A question came up in a now-closed thread: Is an unarmed 61 year old man a legitimate threat?

One poster mentioned that Chuck Norris is in his 60's.

That made me think of a dojo I trained at in Orlando.

The head instructor is around 70, and has myasthenia gravis (sp?). There are times when he can barely walk. There are other times when he can fling much younger people through the air and onto the ground with force that leaves them breathless for a while. I've been a recipient of one of his open palmed slaps (I left myself in a poorly guarded position while trying a wrist-lock on him, and he gave me the slap to let me know) that left my ear ringing for over a day.

A couple of the higher level belts (4th dan and 3rd dan) are in their mid-60's. One is the father of some of my high school classmates. It used to amuse him to work out with me; my wrists have finally healed. The other is a very young looking 64, looks more like 50. Either of these gentlemen would pose a very serious threat to your average adult male.

We had a couple other, lower black belts in their 60's. I wouldn't want to initiate conflict with them, either.

Note: At the time I was working out with these guys, I was actually in shape, late 30's, 6ft/205lbs, and benching around 315. I would have considered these men to be very serious threats.

Just something to think about.

Cheers,

M

[Glenn E. Meyer]

You never know if someone is unarmed, IMHO. Out of the pocket comes a blade. I've posted several times of a young stud who got into an argument with an old coot over a fender bender. He advanced on the coot who stuck a paring knife in stud's chest - stud dropped dead. Magic hit!

Thus, avoidance is the way to go.

[docpadds]

Reminds me of the video that was on one of those shows on Spike (Most incredible etc...).

Old guy at the counter in a store, think he was scratching lottery tickets, had a wad of cash in back pocket. Youth behind spots and decides to pick grandpa's pocket, after all how dangerous can he be....

Unfortunately the old man had previously been a Marine, a boxing champ and worked as a steelworker the rest of the time.... it took him a meer few seconds to knock the snot out of the young guy :)

Found it http://video.msn.com/video.aspx?mkt=en-US&brand=msnbc&vid=209cb963-83cd-4d45-8b4e-9c78fea1725d Its a full report so has all the MSNBC fluff too.

He reacted because he didnt want to loose his wifes ATM cash :)

[hogdogs]

I was attacked by a huge fella on MLKJ Day. He was 63 and dealt out 2 round house blows to the side/back of my neck as I ducked my head before I finally lit him up... I guessed him at 52-55 y.o. Lucky for me, I called 911 to report it before him as first caller gets a little bonus. I could have faced "felony assault on an elderly person" for knocking his molar out of his jaw.
Brent

[Sixer]

Too me, anyone no matter how old, can be considered a threat. In the previous thread there were a few posts referring to the 60yr-old as "the old man"... as if to imply the guy needed a cane or Rascal scooter.

I gotta say that in general your average 60yr-old can still hold his own and would usually have a strength advantage over most young mothers. Heck I'm 29 and a well built (or so I've been told :) ) 5' 11" / 185lbs. Not a huge guy but I can take care of myself. Regardless, I can think of at least 3 guys more than 2x my age that I would NOT want to mess with in a fist fight!

Bottom line ... AARP or not, a healthy 60yr-old man can most definitely pose a serious threat. As a side note, my 90yr old grandfather still has a grip like a small gorilla :)

[LightningJoe]

Everyone is dangerous. Girl Scouts, grandmas, everyone. Even you. Even me.

[StiveC2007]

Any one can pose a threat at anytime, the old man walking down the street or the little kid on a bike, both could pull a knife or a gun, or the old man could just whoop the stuffing out of you, You just never know what a stranger is capable of.

[besafe2]

I'm in my 60's & if it's ever on, I don't plan on it going long enough that the younger stronger guy will win.

[Omaha-BeenGlockin]

Funny but will start folks talking about the witty comment which isn't T and T.

Glenn

[Bud Helms]

I'm in my 60's & if it's ever on, I don't plan on it going long enough that the younger stronger guy will win.

Ditto. The older you get, it's less like a game and more like survival. No time for wrestling matches and confrontations of sheer strength.

DVC.

I have a friend about three years older than me. He has a saying, and I've heard him use it: "You probably can whup my butt, but it's gonna catch you by surprise when you have to." :eek:

;)

[rantingredneck]

I've always heard, "Don't ever mess with an old man, if he's too tired to fight he'll just kill you".

Anyone can be a threat. Depends more on their intentions, and opportunity to carry them out, than their appearance.

[Jim March]

The good news is that anybody with the self-discipline to get that good in the dojo by that age is NOT going to randomly commit crimes or attack people. Odds of that are so far against it's just not worth worrying about.

What you have to watch out for is the old ironworker or whatever.

[Texasborn]

My dad is 66 and has swung a hammer almost every day of his life for the last 50 years. I could probably take him now, but I wouldn't want try. He can still drive a nail with one blow. He played basketball until he was about 55, before the soreness started affecting his work the next day. Don't mess with "old men".

[comn-cents]

Age not a big factor IMO. I have a 50ish year old brother who is the nicest person I know but the best martial artist I know. He's 6 ft 155# and the things he can mentally do are amazing. As in mind over matter, like if it was on, in his mind you don’t matter.
As for the 61 year old this thread is based on, ya he was a threat and would be tread as such. I think it really depends on who he is "threatening". Like it has already been stated who known’s what they might me caring, SLY OLD GUYS

[tacticalmedic]

I am more afraid of an old guy than a younger one.

[azredhawk44]

Another martial arts practitioner here....

Been thrown across the room by an 80-something year old man who underwent hip replacement surgery earlier that year, when I was 17 years old.

That man ended up dying of smoke inhalation while running into a burning building to save his life's work from a fire. (Smart or not, it was his decision and he paid the price alone...:()

All you old coots play nice. I've heard the old saw: "Old men know better than to fight fair... they'll just kill ya."

[Nnobby45]

The question addresses only the general context and includes those in their 60's who, at the time of the incident, won't be relevent to your situation involving a specific individual.

Since you don't know he's armed, you might consider that some ol' coots, the older they get, the more likely they'll be armed--which has been pointed out already.

As we get older, our physical SD capabilities lessen, and so does our ability to take a good fanny whipping.

Could he be a threat? Anybody want to take on George Foreman?:D

[Dwight55]

I'm within spitting distance of 65m , . . . got one bad knee, . . . had my aortic valve on my heart replaced, . . . and I don't breathe as well as I would like to.

But I got a 1911, 55+ years of experience, and an attitude.

I don't consider myself dangerous or anything, . . . just ready and willing, . . . if necessary.

But in answer to the question the OP posed, . . . no, . . . AARP members are not much of a threat. Their official organization's position is pretty much anti-gun, anti-ccw, anti-shooting, . . . and anti just about anything else that has to do with the 2A.

May God bless,
Dwight

[James K]

I'm 76 and am not as strong as I once was, but my favorite .45 is ten years younger and hasn't lost any of its skills.

Jim

[Daugherty16]

But is an older man weak? I'm quite sure that mostly depends on where he started from. I used to run and lift a lot. Now only an inch away from 50, i still have enough stamina and strength to outwork my teenage sons and their friends all day long. (Just now i may not be able to walk quite right the next day...)

Jack Lalane was pretty darn tough at 80. Tougher than most men ever are. The martial artists mentioned are other great examples. However a valid point was made - the MA experts probably aren't going to be starting fights, but you never know.

So when a deranged, angry or just nutjob 60 year old threatens an attack, it should be taken seriously unless proven otherwise. Plenty of murders are carried out by septuagenarians.

[buck9]

For many years but I am not as flexible nor do I have the stamina I once had. But my trigger finger is still pretty good.

[grymster2007]

Former brawler now 51 years old, fat and easily winded; I now go out of my way to avoid conflict. I figure if the need arises, either I'm puttin' 'em down for good in the first 15 seconds, or I'll need an oxygen bottle. That's the thing with older guys; they know they have to get the job done, so they don't mess around.

When I was about 17,young bad-boy that I was, I thought I could take my 52 year old dad. He, having spent the majority of his days barroom brawling, kicked the crap out of me, lickity split. I didn't try again for four years. :)

[Bud Helms]

Getting old ain't for sissies.

[sakeneko]

Is an unarmed 60-year-old a threat? Depends. First,*which* 60-year-old? Second, how well prepared are you to deal with a threat? Third, what are the circumstances?

I'm 48 and female. What advantage I get from being only 80% of a 60-year-old man's age is probably negated by his being larger and probably stronger. A lot of 60-year-old men are in excellent physical health these days. They might not be as fast or as strong as they were at 20, but on the plus side they've got a *lot*more experience.

If you'd asked about an eighty-year-old guy, I might think that his age would trump some of this. Not sixty. Not nowdays.

[.300 Weatherby Mag]

Old Age and Treachery.... You must respect the old farts.... My grandpa trained the precursors to the seals in combat juido (sp?)... Get him aggravated and bad things can happen :eek:...

[johnmai]

Hopefully TFL members aren't AARP members. They have an anti-gun agenda.

[markj]

Out in the country you will find a lot of 60 year old men that can hand out one heck of an ass whoopin. One I know showed me his gun room, not a safe but a room. He has his Dads 1911 he carried into battle in WW2 on a plaque on the wall. Wouldnt sell it for any cost, it is going to the grandkids.

When I was in my 30s I got into it with a guy was over 60 and 6' 5 and strong. He hit me with a foor tray in mickey Ds place after he made rude comments about a worker and I stupidly said something just as rude. If I was smaller and weaker he would have messed me up bad.

My Uncle a deputy for over 30 years could whup just about anyone any day of his life, had arms like popeye :)

Hey tho, birthdays are good for ya, the more ya have the longer ya live :)

[44 AMP]

He's in his early 60s

"fighting me is a losing proposition. If you win, you kicked an old guys ass. No honor there. If I win, you got you ass kicked by an old guy! Less honor there!"

But I won't fight, so don't worry. If I have to, I'll kill you. But I won't fight."

Kind of says it all, I think.

[rantingredneck]

I was raised by my grandparents.

My grandfather served in WWII (Navy) and Korea (Army). He was an easy going fellow who didn't get riled very often but when he did, he could handle himself. He did some boxing during his Navy years.

I remember in my teens and early 20's when I was heavily into martial arts I would get home from the dojo and start play boxing with him. He could cover up and hit me at the same time, not hard, more like open hand touches. I could not do the same with him. I had fast hands. His were much faster.

He spent his working life after the military as a pipeline construction superintendant. His hands were hard and he didn't work behind a desk. He finally retired for good in his early 70's. Cancer and time caught up with him at 77. I remember one of his doctors in the hospital when he was admitted asking me his age. I told him 77, and he said, "Did I understand that the man on the gurney in front of me is only 3 years shy of his 80th birthday?" I said, "Yes." He replied, "He's in damn fine shape for someone of his age, look at the muscle tone and mass he's retained." I said, "Yeah he's a tough one alright." And I meant it.........

[Bartholomew Roberts]

A legitimate threat in general or a legitimate threat justifying the use of deadly force?

If the latter, then it isn't enough that the old man is in good physical condition and a master martial artist. You must show that you had an immediate fear of death or serious injury.

Even if we assume that the person is a master martial artist capable of causing death or serious injury as an unarmed 61-yr old man, we would still have to show the grand jury that you knew that information since they would frown on allowing people to shoot other unarmed people on the basis that they MIGHT be master martial artists.

[MLeake]

... although the previous thread did juxtapose disparity of force between a large, fit 61yo and a toddler...

The point is that age doesn't automatically make somebody a soft target, and shouldn't unduly influence one's perception to the point that one discounts the potential threat, whether one is the defender, or a potential juror.

The point is also that an unarmed 60+ can still potentially do damage to a young, healthy man, and even more to a small woman or a smaller child.

[TEDDY]

We don't do blood lust statements bragging about our abilities to kill.