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View Full Version : That's a 200 lb. doe....not!


.284
August 29, 2009, 09:05 AM
Have you ever noticed that hunter's pack the pounds on their kills?

Here in Michigan, or Saskatchewan South (as I will call it for this thread), we like our whitetail hunting. We talk about it, brag about it, and lie about it. I always here about the "cow" doe that someone just couldn't let walk another day in the woods or the darn near 300 lb. buck.

I will admit that before I integrated a scale in my hanging system, I too over estimated the hanging weight of deer that I had taken. I was usually about twenty pounds heavy from actual. I did better than most. The average hanging weight of a doe here is about 105 lbs. The average "eyeballed" weight is 150 lbs.

Just wondering if this is a Michigan problem, a whitetail only problem, or does this happen in your neck of the woods too? And if so, what other animals and do you have a funny story too?

Rembrandt
August 29, 2009, 09:10 AM
Are you saying 300lb bucks and 200lb doe's are....not out there? Define your weight definitions....live weight or gutted.

.284
August 29, 2009, 09:34 AM
Sure I know that there are 300 lb. Bucks and 200 lb. does. I'm talking about weighing a gutted deer on a scale. I have just wistnessed many guys standing over their dead deer professing it to be 150lbs. (or more) dressed and I know from weighing it's no more than 110 lbs. at best.

Brian Pfleuger
August 29, 2009, 09:39 AM
It's a hunting problem.... I've never talked to a hunter that hasn't killed 200+ pound bucks, 150-200 pound does, 25 pound turkeys.... fisherman with 10+ pound Bass, 5 foot Pike.... you name it....


Part of the problem is that the estimates in their head are based on the "facts" about a deer that was shot by Joe Redneck who said "Dang Johnny! This here id da biggest doe I ever saw! She's a hun-dird and fidtee.... easy"..... so, the guy shoots a doe the next day or next year and says "Well, I'llllllll be! This here doe is biggern that one Joe Redneck shot, DANG! his was over one-fiddy, dis here deer mus' be 175!"

Truth is, Joe Rednecks deer was 100 pounds.... and the new one is 125....


All that said, here in central NY we do have pretty big deer. Actually measured weights from around the Ithaca area show that a 130+ pound doe is not unusual and the bucks can be anywhere over 150, maybe pushing 200 for a REAL bruiser. (this is from the weigh station records that I saw... I'll have to ask the dude in charge to see where the averages came out)

Rembrandt
August 29, 2009, 10:03 AM
Some hunters have picked up a few pointers from the "Fishermen"....notice how they sit way back on the rump of a deer holding the rack as far forward to the camera lens as possible? (You'd never catch me doing this ;) )

MLeake
August 29, 2009, 10:18 AM
... the animal attack scene and its aftermath in the movie, "Tropic Thunder," have some very funny bearing on this.

hogdogs
August 29, 2009, 10:36 AM
"Well, I'llllllll be! This here doe is biggern *that'n* Joe Redneck shot, DANG! his was over one-fiddy, dis here deer mus' be 175!"
Peet, I had to fix yer misspellin'...:D
Brent

birdshot
August 29, 2009, 11:07 AM
i remember a little buck killed at the bottom of a canyon that went well over 300 by the time we got him to the rim.

fisherman66
August 29, 2009, 11:22 AM
I never over estimate my game or fish.:D

Scorch
August 29, 2009, 11:57 AM
When I lived in Nevada, they called it "ground shrinkage", the 30" 4-point 300 lbs buck had shrunk to 24" 3X4 and only weighed 150 lbs by the time the hunter reached it. It brings out lines like "That buck was sooooo faarrr away that I had to hold 4 feet over his back, and it had dried up and lost 100 lbs by the time I reached it".:rolleyes:

bwheasler
August 29, 2009, 11:58 AM
Ask any guy how big his johnson is and see if you get an accurate answer,ask his girl and you'll get a different answer. So if you can't get an accurate rating on something you see every, what makes you think you could judge a deer. Remember, size does make a good story no matter what it is.

Old Grump
August 29, 2009, 12:07 PM
Shrinkage starts for me as soon as I put the sights on it. From 220 pounds walking through the brush to about 75 pounds in my sights. From 75 yards away when I first see it to over 300 yards away when I squeeze the trigger. Fortunately they are never 220 when I have to lift them to hang them in the tree or 300 yards away when I have to go get them. I blame it on that little German fellow that messed up time and gravity with his relative theory. :p

OJ
August 29, 2009, 03:16 PM
These girls visit us nearly daily and, I doubt either tops 200# -

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/kmastf/ANIMALS/IMG_1580.jpg

And, I doubt this guy does either -

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/kmastf/ANIMALS/Buck33.jpg

This one might -

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/kmastf/ANIMALS/IMG_1760.jpg

And, at the time this picture was taken - this guy weighed 249# -

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/kmastf/DOGS/C03.jpg

I put him on an exercise program (with me) and he's trimmed down to 230#.

Lest I give the impression I live in the woods - I bought this property in 1975 and it was the north edge of town - now, I'm told the geographic center of town is about two miles east of me. We have some 15 acres of wooded open space behind us that will never be developed - we also have coyotes, bear, foxes, and raccoons to share that space with.

:D

Uncle Buck
August 29, 2009, 04:13 PM
It has been scientifically proven that witnesses cause shrinkage with any type of game.

A perfect example is the doe I took two years ago weighed 180 pounds, field dressed and hung on a scale.

This past year, I took a doe that weighed only 120 on the scale. She looked Identical to the doe two years ago, maybe even a tad bit bigger. The only difference is this past year I had a witness help me drag her out and hang her. After we skinned her and compared the hides (I tan), she was actually bigger than the previous years deer. Again, witnesses.

The only time a witness should be allowed anywhere near a deer (or fish) is after it has been cleaned and process and placed in the freezer.

hogdogs
August 29, 2009, 04:54 PM
The only time a witness should be allowed anywhere near a deer (or fish) is after it has been cleaned and process and placed in the freezer.
A-dern-men!!!!:D You would be surprised how bad folks miscalculate the weight of a dog caught hog and post the pic on a hoggin' forum only to be told by the vets they are off by 50% or more:D One example was a hog guessed to be 250 but wasn't over 100#...:rolleyes: But I give leeway cuz you are one tired pup after trudging thru the woods half the night, then you have to wrassle a mad hog and several gung ho dogs only to tie it up and drag or tote it to the truck... with all them dogs now leashed up and tangling in the brush and briars... Any hog feels like a 400# slob boar!
I always figure we drug the hunert pounds of hair off as we made way to the truck...
Brent

fineredmist
August 29, 2009, 05:12 PM
The problem is not only the weight "estimate" but also the distance. I am just love the "I shot that 250 lb Connecticut white tail at 300 yards while he was on the run". I have done a great deal of prarrie dog shooting in South Dakota and I can tell you for certain that the 500 yd shot was actually closer to 350 yds by actual measurement. I think it is human nature to "boast" a bit.

SavageSniper
August 29, 2009, 07:39 PM
i remember a little buck killed at the bottom of a canyon that went well over 300 by the time we got him to the rim.

Reminds me of a 800 pound blacktail I shot in Washington state years ago.:D

Bayou Rifle
August 29, 2009, 09:09 PM
There are a couple of corallaries to the weight issue: 1)Is the distance issue. There is a law of hunting physics that establishes 150 yards "field" = 75 yards reality. 300 yards "field" = 130 yards actual, etc. 2) Is the distance between the event and the telling. The longer ago it was, the further the shot and the bigger the animal.

Double Naught Spy
August 29, 2009, 09:37 PM
OJ, y'all sure use small deer feeders on Colorado...or are those full-sized feeders and you have 800 lb bucks?

Nnobby45
August 29, 2009, 10:30 PM
Have you ever noticed that hunter's pack the pounds on their kills?


Well, I can understand how they can double in weight by the time you get 'em carried out.

You sound new at deer hunting. Wait 'till you hear how far away they were killed.

And don't start drinking with fishermen, either.

OJ
August 29, 2009, 11:37 PM
Double Naught Spy
Senior Member


Join Date: January 8, 2001
Posts: 5,612 OJ, y'all sure use small deer feeders on Colorado...or are those full-sized feeders and you have 800 lb bucks?

Dunno - these have visited us for years and reproduce every year - we've had only one larger buck who had the bad luck of crossing heavy traffic below the hill and not making it - The fauns are really about the size of our foxes.

.284
August 31, 2009, 08:47 AM
Not new to deer hunting, 23 years and going strong.

Not new to hunting/fishing lies either :D

mtnbkr
August 31, 2009, 09:19 AM
It's a hunting problem.... I've never talked to a hunter that hasn't killed 200+ pound bucks, 150-200 pound does, 25 pound turkeys.... fisherman with 10+ pound Bass, 5 foot Pike.... you name it....

The biggest deer I've ever shot, a buck, was probably 125ish based on comparison with the actual weight of my buddy's deer that was an honest 150. Deer are small where I live and it's rare anyone gets one much larger than 150lbs (does tend to run in the 80-120lb range). I shot that one at 20yds though (how many people brag about how close they were...). :D

Biggest fish of any species I've caught was right around 5lbs.

I don't care about size, I'm happy enough just to get time to hunt and fish and have a place to do either.

Chris

COYOTE JLR
August 31, 2009, 10:03 AM
Quote:
i remember a little buck killed at the bottom of a canyon that went well over 300 by the time we got him to the rim.
Reminds me of a 800 pound blacktail I shot in Washington state years ago.

:D I got a kick out of this. You've gotta pick your shots carefully around here. I remember two years ago I got a call from my buddy just as I was getting off of a long day at work, and he's all excited about this big buck that he'd just got (an honest 150#s before being dressed, which is pretty damn decent for a blacktail around here).

Well anyway, he asks if I'd wanna come help him pack it out, and being the good friend I am say "Sure man. I'd love to." So I head back and find him out in the hills and he points down into this ravine about half a mile away and says "there it is." The little bugger yoinked his shot and blew out the poor critters legs and let it run for half a mile before bleeding out. :barf:

By the time we climbed back up to the top of that hill, which is as big as most anything you'll find in the Harz Mountains in Germany, I swear to you that the darn deer gained another 200#s after we gutted it out from pure malevolence.

So I would contest that the shrinkage principal doesn't always come into effect when there are witnesses. I was a witness to my friends hunting adventure and I went right along with him when he said his deer was 275#s and I made up for it by then telling everybody about his atrocity of a shot and the 38 others he took to kill the deer. :rolleyes:

davlandrum
August 31, 2009, 01:18 PM
I can live with slight stretching of the truth.

The guy that told me he killed a Roosevelt elk cow that was 1,000 lbs, I had to call BS to his face. Might have seemed that big getting her out, but it wasn't.

Trouble is, once you call BS, they have to get more adamant about it so they don't get humiliated.

hogdogs
August 31, 2009, 01:51 PM
Trouble is, once you call BS, they have to get more adamant about it so they don't get humiliated.
Once I call BS I am 100% sure usually that I am correct...

When they continue... I am quick to tell them "You can pee down my leg and tell me it is raining but I ain't gonna run for the umbrella":D
Brent

bcarver
August 31, 2009, 07:08 PM
hunter shoots deer that takes to river.
hunter gets buddies to come get the "Huge Buck"
Hunter states "I shot him three times"
Five cases are found on river bank.
Hunter swear deer is in water right near far edge by a tree.
Buddy swims river with tow rope and ties to the deer.(right where hunter indicated)
Group pulls a 10" spread 6 point from the river.
Hunter swears that is not his deer and tries to get others to swim over for a second look.

I have found 25 lb turkeys shrink to 19 at the scales.

Nevertoomanyguns
September 1, 2009, 05:42 AM
It’s all about where you live. Up here in Maine we usually judge a big buck by its weight and the rack comes second. We have a thing called the Biggest bucks of Maine club, where you get this red patch the shape of Maine with “The Biggest Bucks of Maine Club", written on it. To get this patch you have to shoot a buck that has a dressed weight of 200lbs or more. That is no guts, heart or liver in the buck when weighed. It has to be weighed at a certified tagging station with witnesses present. I have two of these patches so far with a 201# and a 213# buck. My Dad has two of these patches with a 235# buck and a 260# buck. My Grandfather has two of these patches with a 205# buck and a 226# buck, and my best friend has one of these patches with a 259# buck. So, they are out there. For some reason we alway underestimate the weight of our deer before we weigh them.

I also bass fish but I always have a scale and it is dead on with a certified 5#postal weight. I hate when someone says that they caught a such and such pound bass and you asked if they weighed them and they say no. I usually deduct a couple of pounds off the weight that they told me.

SavageSniper
September 1, 2009, 06:18 AM
If I want a 200lbs of deer, I have to kill 3 of them were I hunt.:D I have killed a few that made 200, but thats total weight, on the hoof.

sc928porsche
September 1, 2009, 08:13 AM
Strange how that 200# deer ends up being 70# in the packages, and ends up costing $30 a pound!

knight0334
September 1, 2009, 08:32 AM
Field or dress weight doesn't matter - only the total weight of the packages of meat.

Hell, antlers and number of points dont matter either unless you hunt in a point requirement state/area.

Brian Pfleuger
September 1, 2009, 09:48 AM
ends up being 70# in the packages, and ends up costing $30 a pound!


Hey, uh, just a suggestion.... but, if you're spending $2100 a year on deer hunting and ending up with 70lbs of meat..... you should find another hobby, probably.

I spend maybe $200 a year (soon to be less with a lifetime license) and get between 75-300 pounds of meat, depending on how good the year turns out.

(I realize you're taking a bit of "Exager-etic license" on that one.);)

sasquatch
September 1, 2009, 10:50 AM
Hell, antlers and number of points dont matter either unless you hunt in a point requirement state/area.

They matter if you find one like this. Didn't get to weigh him, but he probably went 235-240, guts, feathers and all.....:

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u63/fnu_lnu_photos/6x6002.jpg

koolminx
September 1, 2009, 11:06 AM
This thread is a friggin GEM and should be in a "Must Read" section!

I love it!

None of you are going to believe my first ever deer with a Bow nor the distance I shot it, not how friggin big it was!

I shot me a Fork & Horn Mule Deer in Utah (where I lived) from about 6 and a half feet away when I was 17, with a Bear Kodiak #55 recurve, and a Cedar shaft. That was the largest deer I ever saw in my life at the seconds I pulled back and released...

My friggin arrow knocked it over! I wore it like a Fox Stole as I walked back to my truck where my buddy was waiting for me. HE hollered at me when he say me come out of the woods, and said "I didn't hear you shoot, did you see anything or get anything?" (remember this was Bow season...:D) I shouted at him that I got me a spike! He said "sure you did, come on let's go further up the mountain."
As I got closer, maybe 100 feet away, he finally saw it.... I carried it all the way un-gutted over my shoulders...

Once it was gutted and hung in the tree, I doubt there was more than 80 lbs to the entire animal.... But it was my first with a bow and I was awful proud, and When I pulled back I could have sworn it was 50 feet away and 200 lbs rather than 6 feet away and under #80! What a hoot!

Wild Bill Bucks
September 1, 2009, 12:46 PM
My deer are always at their lightest weight when they are first shot.
If they run more than 50 yards, they gain at least 10 lbs.
If they die in the thick brush, and require dragging to an opening, they gain another 10 lbs.
When lifting them onto my 4 wheeler, they gain at least 20 more pounds.
When I get back to camp and clean and hang them, they return to the original weight.:D

An honest weight for a good buck in our area is around 125lbs gutted, and a good doe is around 105 lbs gutted. On the average most of the bucks are around 105 lbs, and a doe is around 90 lbs.

Nevertoomanyguns
September 1, 2009, 01:43 PM
If your paying $30 bucks a pound, you need to find a new hobby. We do all of our own butchering , its a alot cheaper. It is amazing how little meat comes off from a 200lbs deer though.

James R. Burke
September 3, 2009, 06:59 PM
I live in Northern Michigan, and we do have some of the biggest whitetails. But most folks do over estimate them by a long ways. If you get a 150 pound deer that is really big in my book. You see guys get that 110 pound deer, and they have it at 175 or so. Most nice dressed out deer around here are about 130 or so if you want to be honest. Of course there are a few that are really big. I did see one on the scales at 242, and I would not believe it unless I seen it myself, and I did. It was a really old 8 pointer, and I do mean old he was all scared up and gray. But I aggree most hunters way over estimate the size by a long ways.