PDA

View Full Version : Side by side or Over/Under?


Skan21
August 28, 2009, 03:14 AM
I decided against the Saiga 12. Maybe I'll get one later. Instead, I decided to focus on upland fowl for next year. I need either a SxS or over/under for around $1000, new or used. I also want to be able to shoot trap and/or skeet with it. Anyone have any good suggestions? I'm not really interested in an auto or a pump. I don't know what it is, but I really like the wood stocks and balanced looks of an Over/Under. And what about gauge? I'm looking to hunt ring necked pheasant and I'm not sure what gauge would be best for clay birds and real birds.

eastbank
August 28, 2009, 06:01 AM
in your price range there are many options, good used brand names are out there for that price. i like a double barrel for hunting,but like a over under for trap and skeet. try to get one with choke tubes and at least 28 inch barrels. browning cintori, beretta, winchester and the cz,s are fine choices. i have just gone to a 12ga. browning bt 100 single barrel trap gun for trap,but use a 12ga. browning cintori o/u for skeet and 5 station, and a browning double barrel bss sporter in 20ga for hunting. if you can go to a trap range, you will be able to pick up most of the info you are looking for, i found them a friendly crowd. good luck,eastbank.

Rembrandt
August 28, 2009, 06:26 AM
Best bargain out there is a used Browning Superposed....many can had for $1000 or less. These are extremely high quality, Belgium made, and will only go up in value. Down side is the fact they all are fixed choke barrels....pre-choke tube era. 12 gauge is the most popular for upland bird hunting and trap.

B.L.E.
August 28, 2009, 06:47 AM
12 gauge is a very versatile gauge. You can instantly turn it into a "20 gauge" by buying 7/8 ounce 12 gauge loads if you want to.
With a double, you have an instant selection of two different chokes for the first shot. Any load will "cycle" a double, even blanks. If you reload, the empty shells stay in the chambers until you break open the gun, no shagging for your empties at the skeet/trap range.

I would definitely look for a quality used shotgun over a cheap new one. Make sure it fits you. Mount the gun with your eyes closed and you should not have to reposition the gun after you open your eyes to get the proper sight picture if the stock fits you.

darkgael
August 28, 2009, 07:53 AM
Tough choice. If you are going to end up with one gun, I recommend a 12 ga. because there are just so many different loadings available for it.
The decision about gun type, however, is tough. Personally, if I had to pick between the two, the SXS is my choice (It was my first SG when I started hunting). Nothing points like a SXS. The Clay games, however, seem to be dominated by the O/Us and other guns. From what I glean, SXS are a rarity.
Pete

Doyle
August 28, 2009, 08:08 AM
For clay targets, yes an O/U is the platform of choice. The reason is the single sighting plane that is the same for both barrels.

I prefer a 26" barrel for skeet. That however, is a little too short for effective trap shooting. Trap shooters prefer a 30" or even longer. You can compromise with a 28".

oneounceload
August 28, 2009, 12:12 PM
Best bargain out there is a used Browning Superposed....many can had for $1000 or less. These are extremely high quality, Belgium made, and will only go up in value. Down side is the fact they all are fixed choke barrels....pre-choke tube era. 12 gauge is the most popular for upland bird hunting and trap.

If you're finding Belgian Superposeds for under 1 grand, please share....the best I am seeing is closer to 2....

Another brand worthy of consideration is SKB - for both O/U and SxS; however, a decent SxS, especially one able to withstand the rigors of trap and hunting, will cost more than 1,000 used - most in that range will be field guns- light and agile, but brutal for trap or long shooting sessions.

For trap and pheasants, a 12 will be your best bet, although a well-made 20 will also work.

Closer to your price range in SxS will be a used Savage/Stevens, either the 311 or the Savage/Fox B series.

For a touch over 1,000 there is the used Ugartechea, a well-made Spanish SxS.

With 1,000 as your budget, IMO, I would be looking for a well-made used O/U field grade gun from SKB, Browning or Beretta. Realize, as mentioned above, field guns are lighter and will have more recoil compared to a similar model target gun. Which activity do you envision doing more of? If you're hunting every day, putting in mile after mile, and only shooting a few rounds of clays to get ready for hunting, go with the field model. If the opposite is true, where you'll be shooting thousands of clays per year and doing some bird hunting, then get the heavier target model and live the weight in the field.

BigJimP
August 28, 2009, 01:25 PM
My primary bird hunting gun - and the gun I use for Skeet and Sporting clays - is an 8 1/2 lb O/U with 30" barrels in 12ga. I think it does everything pretty well - the extra weight reduces recoil a little / not ridiculously heavy to carry all day / a 12ga will give you a variety of loads from 1 1/8oz or more, and 1 oz ( like a typical 16ga ) and even 7/8 oz ( like a typical 20ga ), 30" barrels give a smooth swing and follow thru with a longer sighting plane, its heavy enough not to be "whippy".

So a 12ga is by far your best bet - if you only want one gun.

OneOunce and others advised you to look for a Browning, Beretta, SKB, etc - where you'll find something in your price range / good advice.

One of the most versatile guns in Browning's lineup - is the Citori, XS Skeet model, with an adjustable parallel comb, in either 28" or 30" barrels in 12ga .... that gun does a lot of things well, well balanced, not expensive by today's standards ( listing for about $ 3,269 now / but street price new is about $ 2,900 ) - and I've seen a few used, still in decent shape for $1,250 - $ 1,750 lately. Its a gun that has a lot of adjustability built into it - with the adj comb / and Fit is the #1 issue on buying a shotgun.

Rembrandt
August 28, 2009, 04:03 PM
If you're finding Belgian Superposeds for under 1 grand, please share....the best I am seeing is closer to 2....

There are a bunch in Cabela's on-line Gun Library....I've seen plenty at Scheels and other other gun shops. Quite a few on Gunbroker as well.

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/content/community/gun_inventory/inventory/ritchfield/browning/1149024_browning.jsp?categoryId=SEARCH_gl

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/content/community/gun_inventory/inventory/east_grand_forks/browning/1161432_browsuper_egf.jsp?categoryId=SEARCH_gl

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/content/community/gun_inventory/inventory/ritchfield/browning/1255573_browning.jsp?categoryId=SEARCH_gl

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/content/community/gun_inventory/inventory/glendale/browning/1321977_brnsposed12sk.jsp?categoryId=SEARCH_gl

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/content/community/gun_inventory/inventory/rogers/browning/1333541_superposed_rog.jsp?categoryId=SEARCH_gl

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/content/community/gun_inventory/inventory/lacey/browning/1259752_super_lac.jsp?categoryId=SEARCH_gl

oneounceload
August 28, 2009, 04:09 PM
Thanks!....Wonder if those Cabela guns have the salt wood? Some have posted they were disappointed in getting salt guns from Cabelas.........

Rembrandt
August 28, 2009, 04:18 PM
Saltwood is always suspect for anything between 1966-and thru 1973. It was not used in the higher grade model Superposes. (Pigeon-Pointer-Diana-Midas and special presentation grades)

Lawyer Daggit
August 28, 2009, 07:59 PM
I have 2 O/U- 686 Ultralight and silver pigeon sporting and a CZ s/s with a straight 'english' style stock.

More than any other firearm, a shotgun needs to become an extension of you- this relationship is not necessarily logical, it just 'is'.

Both O/U and S/S have their strengths. I suggest you try a variety of guns and use what suits you best.

B.L.E.
August 28, 2009, 09:29 PM
To my eyes, nothing looks more right than a classic English style SxS double with a slender forestock. A few months ago, I was in Cabelas and I picked up an old Aguirre y Aranzabal open hammer double for around $375. Turned out to be a great shooter.

Skan21
August 28, 2009, 10:39 PM
So what I'm getting from all these (Excellent) posts, is definitely 12 gauge. I'm curious about wether or not an over and under with interchangeable barrels would be a good idea? Buy a 12 gauge over under and add barrels as I get the cash. Is that possible with a SxS? do they break apart like that? And why is a single sighting plane good for skeet, but not for upland?

roy reali
August 28, 2009, 11:13 PM
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/content/community/gun_inventory/inventory/ritchfield/aya/1254817_matador.jsp?hierarchyId=11889&cmCat=netcon&cm_ven=netcon&cm_cat=Yahoo&cm_pla=10%20gauge%20gauge%20for%20sale&cm_ite=netcon

Whatever a 12 gauge can do a 10 gauge can do even better. Don't goof around with those small bore shotguns. Who knows, you could get lucky and find an eight gauge.

olddrum1
August 29, 2009, 12:07 AM
SxS and O/U both have single sighting planes. One rib and set of beads on each gun. I've found that if a person isn't that good with a SxS then they are not that great with an O/U either.

darkgael
August 29, 2009, 05:31 AM
And why is a single sighting plane good for skeet, but not for upland?
That is a very good question and one that rarely gets asked.
I'm very curious as to responses.
I was taught to shoot a shotgun Churchill style - my primary use is upland hunting - and within that style the sighting plane is not much of a factor, at least not nearly as much as gun fit. There's no denying, though, that the target games are dominated by O/Us.
I have heard it said that the O/U's dominance is related to the fact that it is more rifle-like than a SXS. I wonder....
Pete

Piper Cub
August 29, 2009, 06:23 AM
Saiga 12's are less cash than a O/U. Now if you get one that works is another story.

roy reali
August 29, 2009, 06:58 AM
I wish I could shoot a side-by-side well. To me they are the classiest looking shotguns. While I am not the best shotgunner with any type of gun, I really struggle with side-by-sides. I know, with proper practice and instruction I should be able to. But time is not a luxury I have at this moment.

B.L.E.
August 29, 2009, 07:21 AM
An O/U just looks like a single barrel shotgun when you sight down it. A SxS really has no shooter's advantages other than its classic looks. Kind of makes you want to wear a tweed jacket and knickers when you shoot it.

olddrum1
August 29, 2009, 08:15 AM
When you are shooting a shotgun, your not supposed to be focusing on the barrel but what your shooting at. Shotgun 101. If your looking at the barrel and beads, your missing.

Skans
August 29, 2009, 09:50 AM
Unless you're a Brit who's going to be shooting in Europe, get an Over Under with pistol grip. If you're going to be shooting Trap, Skeet, or Sporting Clays - you need to get something more durable than a shotgun that's going to be used for occassional hunting. I'd suggest a used Beretta White Onyx.

Make sure that the gun is properly fitted for you, otherwise it will be painful and you won't be able to shoot properly with it. If you are buying a used gun - at least make sure that it has the right length of pull for you. If it is slightly too long, it can be cut down by someone who knows what they are doing - and those folks are far and few between, so be careful.

oneounceload
August 29, 2009, 11:38 AM
Kind of makes you want to wear a tweed jacket and knickers when you shoot it.

They're not knickers, they're breeks.....:D and don't forget the ascot!


Unless you're a Brit who's going to be shooting in Europe, get an Over Under with pistol grip

What makes you think they don't use the same type of guns for sporting clays?
(They do)

B.L.E.
August 29, 2009, 12:36 PM
They're not knickers, they're breeks..... and don't forget the ascot!


Here you go, proper SxS attire.:D
http://www.spencers-trousers.com/images/breeks.jpg

Rembrandt
August 29, 2009, 01:53 PM
Side-by-side shooters would feel right at home with the Vintagers, "Order of Edwardian Gunners" http://www.vintagers.org/ ("Pardon me,...do you have any Grey Poupon?")

http://www.vintagers.org/grphighres2006com.jpg

Recoiljunkie44
August 29, 2009, 02:06 PM
One thing I really like about side by sides is the the "built in lead" in side by sides with double triggers! When drawing abead on a flying Pheasent if it going to your left the you can pull the first barrel trigger! I was told by a old Friend that a side by side is a gansta over/ under (because if you hold it sideways like the hold most pistols in movies ) then the barrels are over unders

Though it was Really funny!

Skan21
August 29, 2009, 10:20 PM
Kind of makes you want to wear a tweed jacket and knickers when you shoot it.
Looks like it's going to be an over/under, 'cause I look like hell in knickers! I took down all the shotguns people have suggested so far, and so far, much to my chagrin ( I don't buy Beretta ANYTHING!), I like the Beretta 686 the best. It's in my price range too. I'm not ruling anything out though. I'll take a ride up to Kittery Trading Post in the next few weeks and see what they have.

Another question, is what effect sub gauges have on a shotgun. I found some that convert 12 gauge to 20 and 28 gauge. Will they harm the shotgun at all? And do they pattern as well as THEY say they do? Paying $400 more in order to have 3 different gauges seems like a good idea, but if they damage the $1500 shotgun, they wouldn't be much of a bargain.

Saiga 12's are less cash than a O/U. Now if you get one that works is another story.
Only if I it comes with the breaching barrel attachment so I can look like a complete tool while shooting skeet.

Recoiljunkie44
August 29, 2009, 10:44 PM
Mossberg SIlver reserves O/U have a combo kit for 12 and 20 gauge and like all mossberg stuff good quality at a very reasonable price!

Skan21
August 29, 2009, 10:46 PM
I like Mossbergs. I didn't bother to check them.

oneounceload
August 30, 2009, 09:36 AM
Another question, is what effect sub gauges have on a shotgun. I found some that convert 12 gauge to 20 and 28 gauge. Will they harm the shotgun at all? And do they pattern as well as THEY say they do? Paying $400 more in order to have 3 different gauges seems like a good idea, but if they damage the $1500 shotgun, they wouldn't be much of a bargain.


Depends on which ones you're talking about - none will damage the gun, but some really suck and others are really good. If you're talking about full length sub-gauge tubes, those are perfect. The Chamber-mates are on the other end of the spectrum. In between are those that go about half-way down the barrel - by Rhino, Briley, and others. IMO, jury is still out on their effectiveness, but I've read one or two decent reviews. Their plus is that they don't drastically change the balance point where a full length set will. That can be compensated for by attaching a weight when shooting 12 gauge, and removing it when installing the sub gauge.

Skan21
August 30, 2009, 10:36 PM
I think I'm going to skip the mossbergs. I haven't seen one good review on them yet. That kinda sucks too, because I would rather buy a Mossberg than a Beretta. And as for the Sub Gauges, I don't know what kind they were, and now I can't remember what the website is:mad:. They were $239 for one gauge. That I remember.

Skans
August 31, 2009, 07:22 AM
What makes you think they don't use the same type of guns for sporting clays?
(They do)

I've met a few here in the US, and they seem prefer the traditional straight stock side-by-side. One guy was actually able to give me some good reasons for this, but according to him, that's just what they shoot with over there.

oneounceload
August 31, 2009, 08:55 AM
I've met a few here in the US, and they seem prefer the traditional straight stock side-by-side. One guy was actually able to give me some good reasons for this, but according to him, that's just what they shoot with over there.

For their driven pheasant shoots, many will use the SxS since that is the traditional gun. But O/U's are making their way into that as well. Many of the estates will rent you Beretta O/U's if you didn't bring your gun with you. For sporting, O/U's rule there as well as here.

SxS's are wonderful guns. I love the look; however, they can be a bugger to shoot if they do not fit properly. Fit is more critical with these than any other type of action, IMO. And being a leftie, finding a nice cast-on gun can get difficult.