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Wallabing
August 26, 2009, 04:44 AM
I was in my room playing a pc game when my mon knocked at my door and told me there was people in our backyard. We went out our front door and circled to the fence that leads to our backyard, and sure enough we see our backyard gate open (We didnt lock our backyard gate) and two men walking up and down the pathway.

My mom and I said in a firm tone for them to get out, then one of the men had the audacity to yell "Hey!" then gave us a harsh stare. The two men then casually walked out and away from out property like they owned the place. We both went back inside and calmed down.

Two hours later my mom knocks on my room agian and says they were back. I run upstairs and peer through my moms bedroom window and one of the men we encountered was back in our backyard, walking around (We were ignorant not to lock the fence agian, our fault).

I ran into my room, grabbed my Benelli Nova and loaded 4 rounds into it and ran outside into my backyard. I encountered both in the pathway and pointed my shotgun right at them and yelled at the top of my lungs for them to get out.

The two men bolted away they were frantic runners out of our property like the speed of light, they were gone down the block in mere seconds.

We called the police, three cars came and took every single detail we could tell them. Well, we make sure to lock everything now, I'm just letting you all know we're alright agian.

TailGator
August 26, 2009, 07:16 AM
(1) Locking your gate seems like a good idea, but depending on how high the fence and gate are, it may or may not be much of deterrent. What interests them so much in the back yard, anyway? Can the object of their interest be secured?

(2) Most of the folks here are going to advise you to call the cops sooner rather than later, and to not leave the security of your house unnecessarily. What could the intruders get that is more valuable than your life? You had no way of knowing if they were armed, and unless there is something you are not telling us, you don't know what their intention was.

(3) Better know the laws of your jurisdiction regarding firearms access, display, self defense, and property defense, including any applicable age restrictions.

I understand your distress at having prowlers, especially some bold enough to return after being confronted, but you, your mom, and any other occupants of the house need to think this through and have a plan. It could have come out a lot differently. And it may not be over - plan now.

jrinne0430
August 26, 2009, 07:22 AM
Interesting post...I am glad that you and your mother were unharmed. I had a somewhat similar incident happen to me a few years ago. After telling them to leave (they ignored me) instead of coming back-out with a gun, I called the police and the problem was solved (one of the trespassers did resist the police). I later found out they were drunken college kids and one was somewhat deaf.

Do you have any idea what they were doing on your property?

Jofaba
August 26, 2009, 07:28 AM
I write this like rolling dice, wondering whether I will get pummeled with criticism from other members, or nods in agreement, but my crystal ball is on the fritz today so here goes:

The fact that you said said your "Benelli Nova" (which I own and love) instead of your "shotgun" hints to me that, if true, you were more excited about getting to use your gun in a situation than you probably should have been.

Sounds like you over reacted. There was no reason to point your gun at them. Were they armed? I think simply holding your shotgun would have been enough, or even a handgun in your back waistband as you went to ask them why they were there would have been more than enough.

Re4mer
August 26, 2009, 07:28 AM
The only thing you should have done different was to called the cops and made a report the first time since the situation was so suspicious. Nobody has any business in your back yard, especially if they get cocky after you tell them to leave. Unfortunately it seems few people these days have any respect for private property.

OldMarksman
August 26, 2009, 07:57 AM
TailGator nailed it.

1)--do not leave the security of your house unnecessarily.

Here's the story of a Dallas man who went outside with a shotgun and ended up losing his arm. It could have been worse.

Doctors had to amputate the arm of a Watauga homeowner Wednesday morning after he was injured in a fight with a crook. The man interrupted a robbery attempt in front of his house and ended up getting stabbed and then shot with his own gun.

Debris – including the homeowner's shotgun – from the scuffle was scattered in the yards of several homes as police continued their investigation nearly seven hours after the man first interrupted the robbery, authorities said.

According to reports, the homeowner heard some noise near his portable trailer parked outside his house in the 6000 block of Sundown Drive and went outside. His wife called 911 and woke a friend who had stayed the night at the house.


http://cbs11tv.com/local/watauga.stabbing.burglary.2.851147.html

2)--Better know the laws of your jurisdiction regarding firearms access, display, self defense, and property defense, including any applicable age restrictions.

Very recently, a man in Wichita, KS saw some people in his yard, faced them with a gun and told them to leave, fired a shot in the air, and was taken to jail. To my knowledge the specific charges have not been publicized, but it is quite possible that the shot was just one on the list.

In many jurisdictions, pointing a gun at someone, or even displaying it in a manner that can cause apprehension, is unlawful unless one is a law enforcement officer discharging his duties or is a civilian engaged in the act of defending himself from imminent use of deadly force by an attacker.

A number of states have laws or case law that permit the use of deadly force when necessary against an intruder who has entered, or in some cases, has attempted to enter, an occupied home unlawfully. Sometimes the entry must be "with force", and sometimes the law extends to an occupied automobile or place of business.

Not the same as going outside to confront someone in the yard.

Homeowners and tenants do have the right to ask uninvited people to leave their property, but I cannot understand where some people have gotten the idea that they can do so with a gun and get by with it.

Too much television, maybe?

You were lucky in more than one way.

bababooey32
August 26, 2009, 08:32 AM
1) Should never have left the house. Shout from a window and/or call the cops immediately. Since you did go outside.....

2) Not sure how old you are, but why would you bring your mom with you to confront potential BGs? Bad enough that one of you left the security of your home, but both of you? But since you both went....

3) I see no problem with bringing your "Benelli Nova" with you to ask the strangers to leave. Pointing it at them was a poor choice and could have come back to bite you.

Glad no one was hurt - that is the bottom line. Lock your gates. Stay inside. And keep your firearm at low ready until you are ready to FIRE.

Uncle Buck
August 26, 2009, 10:19 AM
Some people have the right to go into your yard with-out your approval, like it or not. I had the tax assessor (Before I knew him) walking around my farm and peering into buildings. Yeah, I confronted him and asked what the heck he was doing.
County law allows him to enter a property with-out the land-owners permission.
Call the police, ask what they are doing on your property, invite them to leave. It is much easier to call the police back and say "never mind, it was the meter reader, the tax assessor"... or some other person.
I carry open all the time on my own property. Check the laws and make sure you are not threatening a person who is allowed onto your property.

Why did you not take the gun with you the first time? Why did you not ask why they were there?

OldMarksman
August 26, 2009, 10:40 AM
I carry open all the time on my own property.


Uncle Buck, I presume you reside in a jurisdiction in which that is lawful. In most of the populous counties it is not unless one is engaged in the lawful taking of game.

However, the OP was not open carrying. He had a gun in his hands.

Check the laws and make sure you are not threatening a person who is allowed onto your property.


Good advice. In Missouri, however, make sure you are not threatening anyone.
571.030. 1. A person commits the crime of unlawful use of weapons if he or she knowingly:

.....

(4) Exhibits, in the presence of one or more persons, any weapon readily capable of lethal use in an angry or threatening manner; or

....

5. Subdivisions (3), (4), (5), (6), (7), (8), (9), and (10) of subsection 1 of this section shall not apply to persons who are engaged in a lawful act of defense pursuant to section 563.031, RSMo.


Laws and case law vary among jurisdictions, but the above is probably not too far from the norm. Check with an attorney.

Dannyl
August 26, 2009, 10:49 AM
Hi,

Other than the good advice that many have given here, like staying within the house, knowing he law etc, I want to add that a dog can be a great asset.
not only that they are great friends, but a good dog goes a long way to helping increase your security.

My German Shepherd barks loudly as soon as anyone she does not recognize is close to our fence, which calls our attention. Also, with the way she looks at a stranger and smiles :D Not many will be willing to try and find out if she bites or just barks.

Recently an elderly friend of ours was alerted by her maltese poodle who started barking madly; when she switch her lights on, there was a guy trying to force the burglar bars in one of her windows. when he saw the lights go on he took off.

The dog's job is not to fight for you (although most will do that), but to alert you and some of your neighbours to the presence of strangers who do not belong.
And off course, you do have a firearm or two that you can use (within the limits of the laws) if the wrong person insists on trying to get into your house and the Leo's have not yet arrived...
and yes, you HAVE to know the laws, I am pretty sure that in most places you cannot shoot anyone unless that is the only way to stop an imminent or on-going violent crime, and I seriously doubt that anywhere one would be allowed to point a shotgun at a trespasser.

Brgds,

Danny

Phoebe
August 26, 2009, 10:53 AM
I'm new to all of this, and I certainly don't know the laws of your jurisdiction, but I'd assume that:
1) trespassing or looking scary isn't a reason to shoot someone
2) if you had shot them, you'd be in legal hot water right now due to 1)
3) don't point a gun at something you don't intend to shoot

I deal with similar encounters to what you describe. There is a back alley that runs along my property line and sometimes there are bad looking kids back there.

#1? Keep my GATE LOCKED!

Yes, the kids could climb my gate and probably climb yours too. But....at the very least, if you make it a tiny bit more difficult for someone, you are increasing your chances of not even having to go grab your gun.

You should have had the gate locked in the first place. Barring that, you should have locked it after the first incident.

Keep your gate locked, okay?

(Hope I don't sound vehement, but I'm telling you that I believe much of my recent home intrusion issues started with leaving my gate unlocked.)

Jofaba
August 26, 2009, 05:13 PM
As I said I own and love my Benelli, but if I was telling a similar story (and I wouldn't, I'd stay inside and call the cops) I wouldn't be embellishing the story with such details. That sounded odd to me (and so I either don't believe the story, or he's very young and acted inappropriately, in my eyes).

If the story is fake though, he does lose points for only loading 4 shells. :D





(If you're loading your Nova up and intend to possibly use it, you'd probably want to rack a shell into the chamber and feed another into the tube.)

Wallabing
August 26, 2009, 05:51 PM
My mom was really scared when the two men appeared agian and began to prowl around our backyard. I shouldnt have pointed my shotgun though, only if if was a last resort.

(BH)
August 26, 2009, 08:26 PM
Yeah, definite violation of rule 2 and most likely 4 as well.

Many "newer" gun owners seem to have a tendency to overreact in situations like this. Just always remember, if you pull that trigger the reaction will have terribly negative effects on that you will most likely have to deal with for a long, long time.

I'm going to assume, and hope, that the choice to brandish a shotgun in this scenario (instead of say... a handgun) is a result of age restrictions not judgement........?

And BTW, What the heck is in your backyard?

I feel like we are really missing some info in this story, and I'm kind of leaning towards Jofaba's opinions until we get a little clarification.

comn-cents
August 26, 2009, 08:49 PM
It’s not a good thing when unwanted people invade your space. It's very easy to get a little pumped up and over react.
Like it has been said you should not have ever left your house (the 1st time)
You should have called the police both times, they appeared.
Yes if you pulled the trigger you would have to justify this in court.
I'm not saying that you are wrong either way, I don't know what was going through your head at the time. I for one will not approach an intruder unarmed, whether they are in my yard, car or house. First and foremost you need to think before you act/react. Think about when you took your mom outside and put her in danger, when you ran outside leaving her alone, possible in danger. Items in your back yard can be replaced, your family & friends can not so take care of them first. Remember calling the police in this situation is the first thing you should do. IF they come into your home do what you need to do to protect yourself & your family then call the police.
Good luck and think hard & talk to your mom about what to do next time (hope there is not one) to keep both of you safe.

daddyusmaximus
August 26, 2009, 10:17 PM
Hi all, Newbe here... but thought I'd weigh in with my view point. Just my opinion, but I could be wrong....

I agree with TailGator "You had no way of knowing if they were armed, and unless there is something you are not telling us, you don't know what their intention was."

Therefore, not knowing, I would say you acted as I would have. I served 28+ years, and as a former Infantry Drill Sgt, I have a voice that tends to make people listen. (and often stare) Point is they were warned, yet they returned. Bad move.

What in tarnation could be so dadburn interesting in a back yard? The uncamouflaged entrance to a bunker? Casing the house? Testing the limits? They know now!

We had an attempted break-in this past winter. I heard the window break, and voices. (voices, as in more than one) While the wife dialed 911 (it was close to 03:30) I went downstairs to engage. I married late in life and have 2 children under 13. Nobody is going to endanger them.

As I descended the stairs a chambered a round. (Springfield XD .45ACP with a Lazermax and Streamlight) I announced my intentions, but didn't need to this time. As soon as they heard the sound of the slide, I hear "Oh F*ck" All I saw was one bluejeans & tennis-shoe leg go out the window. Town Marshal came, after a while, took a statement and patrolled the area for a little bit. K-9 unit from County came, dog lost the track 3 blocks down, by the school. Must of had a car waiting.

Too much talk of security, take action for crying out loud. You don't have to start blasting at the first sigh of trouble, but you do need to be prepared to.

Never underestimate the potential danger of a situation. "Situational awareness" is a phrase you hear a lot. I hope you scanned the whole yard before you went out. You saw 2. There could have been 3,4, or more, catch my drift?

Violence is rarely the answer,

but when it is, it's the only answer.

Just my $.02

Trashcan-man
August 27, 2009, 12:27 AM
Daddyusmaximus,
While I agree that you definately need to act to protect your family, and I completly agree that you never have an idea of what a BG's intentions are. I have to say I disagree with your opinion. In the OP's post he left the relative safety of his home, he definately had a barrier between himself and the BG's and went outside to confront 2 people who could very well have been armed. While I know that the protection that a house gives is minimal...windows can be broken very easily...but still I'd rather have to engage a BG coming through a window than in the wide open.
As far as your story, you left out an important detail, is your entire family upstairs or do you have a split plan with the kiddies downstairs? If it is the latter than I completly agree with your actions, 1st priority is to make sure that your kids are safe and sound. If it was the former then why on earth would you go downstairs. Being military you must know tactics, you must know that having an elevated position...especially when you are outnumbered...is the superior way to fight a battle. Personally I would've stayed upstairs and made them pay for every stair.
I'm not critizing(sp?) you at all, just offering my views. BTW Thank you for serving such a long time for our country. I did not but my dad did and I know what a sacrifice it is. Oh...and welcome to tfl...I'm fairly new myself and it is a great forum.

pockets
August 27, 2009, 12:32 AM
I agree with you all up until pointing the gun at them, they were not visibly armed, and were not acting threatening, so that might have been a little much. Enough to get you arrested? No way, your house, you told them to leave, time for them to get the **** out.

I have patrolled these forums for a long time, just barely decided to join. My view is more towards that of Daddymaximus. Generally I tend to disagree with most of the armchair celebrities on here that get so much respect from your population, who always try to say that the assailant has to threaten you a ridiculous amount before a gun can come into play. Yes I believe a gun is a last resort, but its not going to be a last resort if you hesitate to use it and end up dead.

I honestly don't recall ever seeing a post on this forum about someone pulling a gun in self defense and nobody has a problem with it

just my .50 cents

Wuchak
August 27, 2009, 12:37 AM
I agree with the others on the thread that once they came back you should have locked the doors, called the police, and watched the guys from the safety of the house. With your firearm at the ready of course.

When there were in the yard the first time I would have asked, "Can I help you?" They might have thought they had a legitimate reason for being there e.g. the were called to give an estimate on a fence repair and got the wrong address.

Here's the scoop on the guy in KS. He was fine until he fired the warning shot. It was a case of, "Hey you damn kids, get off my lawn!" gone to far.

BY STAN FINGER
The Wichita Eagle

An insurance adjuster brought two people with him _ a father and his daughter _ to a house on South Dellrose early Thursday evening to inspect the roof for hail damage.

But someone must have neglected to notify the elderly man who lived there, or else he forgot about it.

He came out of the house in the 400 block of South Dellrose with a handgun and ordered the three others off of his property, police said. As they were leaving, the resident fired a shot to encourage them.

None of the three _ the 41-year-old insurance adjuster, the 27-year-old man and his 9-year-old daughter _ were injured in the incident, which occurred shortly before 7 p.m.

The 70-year-old resident was arrested and booked into jail.

Wildalaska
August 27, 2009, 12:54 AM
How old are you Wallabing?:cool:

WildcaretoshareAlaska TM

Tucker 1371
August 27, 2009, 12:56 AM
I've had similar instances like this happen around my house (before I came to college) and my typical course of action is to have a gun either on me or within quick reach and watch the person(s) of interest from inside the house until they leave. If they don't leave but don't attempt to break in then you call the police. If they do attempt to break in that's what your shotgun is for.

Xanatos
August 27, 2009, 02:11 AM
Like others have said before, it depends where you live, but here in Washington state, if someone's on your property, everything you did was perfectly legal.

Dr Raoul Duke
August 27, 2009, 03:34 AM
Xanatos, let me see if I get this right. You are saying that under the laws of the State of Washington you can commit assault with a deadly weapon because someone is on your property after dark? My brother, a retired Washington cop who lives on San Juan Island says you are wrong, as does my nephew who is currently carrying a badge in Tacoma. They say that if the cops arrive while one has the trespasser at gunpoint, it will cause the officers responding to first threaten you with lethal force until you relinquish the weapon and go prone, then they will arrest and transport you to a nice warm cell.

I'm simply amazed that more people don't get killed messing around with firearms in this manner. Coming outside with the shotgun could have put Wallabing in jail, but that's the lightest result if things went sideways. What if the two strange rangers were BGs, and armed, saw Wallabing with his Benelli Nova, and then decided to remove him as a threat? Then there is the chance that the cops arrive, Wallabing being young and excited, doesn't respond correctly and quickly enough, and we have tragic headlines; Young Washington State man killed by Local Police in late night prowler incident.

Get a noisy dog. Get an alarm system. If someone is in your backyard, call 911. Get everyone into one room that has a telephone, your cell phone, firearms, access to a bathroom, and wait for the cavalry. Do not go outside and try to resolve the situation yourself.

The thing about guns is that they make it real easy to kill people, and real easy for other people to kill you. Try not to kill, or get killed. :)


Dr. Raoul Duke
Gonzo Forever

OldMarksman
August 27, 2009, 06:16 AM
Enough to get you arrested? No way, your house, you told them to leave, time for them to get the **** out.

Read it again. They were not in his house. They were in his yard, and he went outside with a gun. Enough to get him arrested? In some places yes siree, in others possibly not.

Generally I tend to disagree with most of the armchair celebrities on here that get so much respect from your population, who always try to say that the assailant has to threaten you a ridiculous amount before a gun can come into play.

Standards vary. Do you consider an imminent threat of death or serious bodily harm to be ridiculous? That's the legal threshold in most jurisdictions.

Sometimes it is permitted when necessary to prevent a forcible felony--hardly the case here.

I honestly don't recall ever seeing a post on this forum about someone pulling a gun in self defense and nobody has a problem with it


I've seen many, but that's irrelevant. No one pulled a gun in self defense here.

OldMarksman
August 27, 2009, 06:17 AM
Here's the scoop on the guy in KS. He was fine until he fired the warning shot.

Basis for that?

Charles Z
August 27, 2009, 07:03 AM
We had a similar happening here on Long Island several years ago. The son of a homeowner felt he was in danger and rushed home from a party and told his father there were people after him. When a group of teens did arrive at his home, the father grabbed a pistol and went outside to confront the group. The confrontation, with the help of alcohol , escalated, a teen was shot and killed. The father was black, the teens white, the whole incident blew up into a racial thing. Bottom line, the shooter is doing time in prison--not enough for the victim's family and too much for his. Most cooler heads have agreed--he should never have left his house with the gun and the father's first move should have been to call the police. The cops ,too often, are cleaning up the mess, if we can get them to prevent the mess--go for it.

pockets
August 27, 2009, 09:15 AM
Read it again. They were not in his house. They were in his yard, and he went outside with a gun. Enough to get him arrested? In some places yes siree, in others possibly not.

Yes HIS yard. There are two things I am very adamant about. Nobody messes with my home, and nobody messes with my family. In my opinion, the type of people that will threaten the sanctity of an occupied residence and the type of people that threaten your family, without provocation, are the type of people that god never needed to give life to in the first place. I am also very defensive of my vehicles, but I understand the difference in the mindset of the car thief and the burglar.

And yes trespassing on an enclosed area, locked or not, especially after dark, would be enough to get you killed where I live, most people are not of the shoot first ask questions later, but you better be running.

And since when did pointing a gun at someone qualify as assault? But your probably the guy who gets molested when someone swears at you.

TailGator
August 27, 2009, 09:47 AM
In most states, an assault/battery is committed when one person 1) tries to or does physically strike another, or 2) acts in a threatening manner to put another in fear of immediate harm. [emphasis added]

http://criminal.findlaw.com/crimes/a-z/assault_battery.html

Anyone can run out into their yard and threaten any visitor with firearms. But a thinking person realizes that by doing so they (1)give up the cover provided by their home, (2)are walking into an unknown situation, (3)are leaving any family members present inside to cope with accomplices or any assailants that get past you, and (4)may face legal consequences if their actions are found to be unjustified. On that last count (and it is not the most important, although you might give it greater weight after receiving a bill from your attorney) it is much easier to justify to authorities and the courts the use or threat of force inside the home and/or when serious physical harm is clearly feared than when the homeowner leaves a secure place to confront someone, especially in situations like this in which the most severe claim one would have to justify one's action is trespassing.

OldMarksman
August 27, 2009, 09:51 AM
Yes HIS yard. There are two things I am very adamant about. Nobody messes with my home, and nobody messes with my family. In my opinion, the type of people that will threaten the sanctity of an occupied residence and the type of people that threaten your family, without provocation, are the type of people that god never needed to give life to in the first place.

Yard and occupied residence are two entirely different things. In many jurisdictions one may use deadly force against someone who has entered an occupied residence unlawfully, or who is attempting to enter unlawfully and with force. Sometimes the law extends to the porch or maybe garage, sometimes it doesn't. The concept is that such entry provides reason to believe that imminent danger of death exists. The concept ("a man's home is his castle") goes back almost a thousand years to the English Common Law in terms of the original roots of state laws, and about four thousand in other places.

I am also very defensive of my vehicles, but I understand the difference in the mindset of the car thief and the burglar.

In some places, but not all, the above concept extends to the occupied vehicle--not to protect the car but to provide for the safety of the occupants.

And yes trespassing on an enclosed area, locked or not, especially after dark, would be enough to get you killed where I live, most people are not of the shoot first ask questions later, but you better be running.

And shooting a trespasser is enough to get you charged with murder almost everywhere. There are a few very limited exceptions here and there. In some places, reasonable, but not deadly, force may be employed. In most places the lawful thing to do is to inform a trespasser that he is uninvited and ask him to leave, or to ask the sheriff to do so. Heck, in many places all the sheriff can do is issue a citation. This also goes back hundreds of years.

And since when did pointing a gun at someone qualify as assault?

Varies by jurisdiction, but probably since the advent of the gun.

Perhaps people have been watching too much television. Yeah, Cisco, Gene and Hoppy and Roy and their side-kicks pointed guns at people in the movies and on television every Saturday, but that was fiction.

What were they going to do? Shoot? No, of course not, but the "bad guys' " scripts called for them to raise their hands.

Not always assault, but often constitutes other crimes. The threshold for producing a weapon varies somewhat from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, but in all places, there must be a need. In most, it must involve self defense.

Know your state laws and what they mean.

But your probably the guy who gets molested when someone swears at you.

You lost me.

FyredUp
August 27, 2009, 01:22 PM
pockets:

Yes HIS yard. There are two things I am very adamant about. Nobody messes with my home, and nobody messes with my family. In my opinion, the type of people that will threaten the sanctity of an occupied residence and the type of people that threaten your family, without provocation, are the type of people that god never needed to give life to in the first place. I am also very defensive of my vehicles, but I understand the difference in the mindset of the car thief and the burglar.

And yes trespassing on an enclosed area, locked or not, especially after dark, would be enough to get you killed where I live, most people are not of the shoot first ask questions later, but you better be running.

And since when did pointing a gun at someone qualify as assault? But your probably the guy who gets molested when someone swears at you.

You really need to calm yourself down. You are far too eager to shoot and kill someone for a property crime than is rational or necessary.

Please tell me that place "Where you live" is not in Wisconsin. Because if it is your attitude is gonna buy you a lot of years in jail. The law is clear in Wisconsin, you can't use dealy force to protect property. You can't shoot someone simply for trespassing or theft. But hell they love tough guys in prison.

Seriously, you need to read the law regarding self defense, what defines assault, and when the use of deadly force is appropriate, before you end up wrongly killing someone and not only ruining your own life but your family's too.

Your attitude is not what we need in these gun grabber days. We need responsible and proper use of firearms in self defense situations. Not shoot out at the OK Corral type of incidents.

And by the way, this comment by you prooves you are an argumentative ass that when you run out of things to say on topic attack the poster. But your probably the guy who gets molested when someone swears at you.

LightningJoe
August 27, 2009, 01:29 PM
I know the smart thing to do is to stay in your house, but I'm sure I would have gone out there, too. Probably wouldn't have taken my mom with me, but some moms do what they want. I know mine did. As for pointing the shotgun, as long as it doesn't go off you're probably OK, but that's the problem isn't it? Four rules and so forth.

KLRANGL
August 27, 2009, 02:03 PM
How about this for a middle ground...

Observe the guys outside as best you can. If your gut gives you the "oh snap, something is wrong" feeling, then call the cops. If you don't get that feeling, you can proceed outside (preferably armed, but certainly not showing or brandishing). This allows you (in certain situations) a better view and understanding of what is going on, and allows you to confront those people in your yard (which, chances are, are legitimate, if not innocent). Be sure to leave an avenue of retreat to your house open at all times, and never let those in your yard gain a position of advantage.
Does this make sense? Keep the situation dynamic, and allows you to stay safe when the BGs come knocking, but doesn't force you to call the cops when the local tweens hot rod their trikes through your yard... It makes sense to me anyway... Ive had people in my yard plenty of times, and since they never gave me the bad willies, I just went out to confront them. They were usually just small time contractors my mom would hire and forget to tell me about.

Applied to the OP, this would (theoretically) allow for the confrontation of the people in the first instance, and call the cops when the one returned (depending on the exact circumstances)

Dustin0
August 27, 2009, 02:11 PM
I got pop corn in the microwave for this one. :rolleyes:

Trashcan-man
August 27, 2009, 02:28 PM
Come to think of it, when my mom was alive she probably wouldn't have come and gotten me at all...I would have heard her yelling and screaming and would have had to go out and protect the men...lol. She was a tough woman and was not the type to back down from a fight...lol.

pax
August 27, 2009, 02:39 PM
But your probably the guy who gets molested when someone swears at you.

And by the way, this comment by you prooves you are an argumentative ass that when you run out of things to say on topic attack the poster.

That's about enough of that.

pax