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View Full Version : Yet another possible justification for carrying


MLeake
August 18, 2009, 01:56 PM
Feral dogs...

This would NOT be a pleasant way to go.

http://www.ajc.com/news/dogs-that-killed-uga-118158.html

Apparently, in vicinity of the University of Georgia. From what the article says, the feral dog pack had previously fed by a former neighbor of the victims. Note: Feeding feral critters is often a very bad idea.

Between this, and the rattlesnake that was outside our barn the other day, I'm really trying to get my lady to apply for her CCW permit.

Yeek.

sakeneko
August 18, 2009, 02:08 PM
Yeah. :/ My brother-in-law is a cop who works for a surburban PD in the greater Los Angeles area. He's now in his 40s, and has been a cop for well over fifteen years. The only time he's ever had to fire his service pistol was when he was off-duty, jogging one day, and was attacked by a feral dog. He's a dog lover who has three of his own, but that and an oversized helping of empathy with dogs didn't help him deal with this particular dog, who was determined to attack and large enough to badly injure or kill a fit, young adult man about 6' tall.

I really hope I never have to shoot any animal, but I hike and live on the outskirts of a town that has plenty of feral animals living in and around it, so I can't count on that. I'm glad I have my CCW and a carry gun I know how to use.

Brian Pfleuger
August 18, 2009, 02:31 PM
This would NOT be a pleasant way to go.


No kidding! That would definitely be low on my "how I die" list.:eek:

(You might even need a reload to fend off that many!;):))

MLeake
August 18, 2009, 02:35 PM
... are both also very good reasons to carry a well-crafted walking stick. When in places where a firearm is not allowed, this is a viable, if limited fallback option.

By the way, they are good for walking, too.

Sixer
August 18, 2009, 02:39 PM
It's a jungle out there...

markj
August 18, 2009, 03:31 PM
Close to where I work there have been 5 or 6 deaths in the last 3 weeks. Cant carry, work at a college.

Out in the country where I live I carry a 45 when I go out at night, never know what animal is out there.

Folks come out from Omaha and drop off their unwanted pets, these reproduce and raise their offspring as wild.

We shoot them.

Same for cats. Lots of cats, wish folks wouldnt drop em off.

Sure do feel for those 2. She was killed, he drove up, got out of the car and was killed. Close to home too. A shame.

She could have had a weapon on her as I do.

Lee Lapin
August 18, 2009, 07:28 PM
Only one justification is needed for carrying. Because the only way you can be sure you'll have a weapon when you need one is to have one all the time.

JMHO, YMMV etc.

lpl

skoro
August 18, 2009, 08:19 PM
Feral dogs...

The only time I've had to shoot in self defense was against a pack of feral dogs.

onthejon55
August 18, 2009, 11:19 PM
Yet another reason why carrying a knife sometimes isnt good enough

Trooper Tyree
August 18, 2009, 11:39 PM
A very real possible justification I'd say. We have and always have had dog issues where I live. I'm very aware of that, but many of the people moving out here aren't. There's one who's wife rides her bike down the road and around in the late morning/early afternoon with a childseat+child on the back. Moreso she doesn't carry unless it's hidden in the childseat on the bike with the kid because what she wears on these bike rides doesn't leave much to the imagination or anywhere to carry a gun. :cool:

They have dogs but she doesn't even take one of them with her. :o Between her being unarmed, having a child with her, and her attire or rather lack of attire :eek: , all I can do is shake my head. You've got human predators, feral dogs, free roaming non-feral dogs, dog/coyote half breeds, coyotes, the cougar up on the ridge, and to top it all off, a heck of a case of road rash if she falls off. :eek: But whatever. Not my problem I suppose.

But yeah, there's all kinds of dogs out here. Coyotes as well, though I don't worry about them unless one of them gets to inquisitive and starts hanging around the property and coming in close and not showing fear of humans. The coyote/dog half breeds worry me more. Most of all family dogs and "Guard dogs" worry me. People move out here, buy their 20 acres and build their 300-500K house, then spend all their time at work paying for it. What do they bring in to take care of it while their gone? Dogs. I've always wondered though, just how effective a guard dog is when it's a mile away from what it's supposed to be guarding. :mad:

For a while I had an issue with Rottweilers. They were always showing up. I don't know where they came from or who owned them, or I'd have had some choice words with their owner.

I'd seen one or two in the back pasture a time or two, and I didn't like the idea of them being out there with the animals. So the next time I saw one I took the shotgun and walked out there to see about it. He'd went off into a neighboring pasture while I was getting the gun and walking out there. It was a hayfield with 3' grass in it, and mine was cropped by the horses, so although I couldn't see the dog anymore I wasn't worried, I had a good field of vision around me. I don't like to kill neighbors dogs, so I usually just walk up as close as I can, then tell them roughly to "Go Home Dog, HOME" and fire a round or two in the air and that's usually the last time I see them. Most neighbors dogs are just mutts though.

This one came out of the grass about 50'-60' in front of me, kinda all stiff legged and locked on me while slowly creeping forward. So says I, this feller sure is unfriendly for being on somebody elses turf. I just stayed put and watched, I had a 12ga loaded with buck, I wasn't worried and I wanted to feel him out, see just how unfriendly he was. Then he huffed and dang it I sure do hate it when animals huff. He'd said his piece so I felt compelled to say mine, so I put on my mean voice and said, "HOME Dog, GET". He didn't like that, leastwise that's how I interpreted his sudden charge. I had a cure for that though, or so I thought, and I laid a round in the dirt between us. Imagine my surprise when he didn't even slow. Then imagine my surprise when the next round didn't fire. :rolleyes: I'd never had the 870 fail to fire, surprised the crap out of me. I recovered and racked it out and for reasons I can't explain to this day laid another one between us, though there wasn't much left between us. I was on deter the dog autopilot I suppose, when I should have changed gears to stop the threat overdrive.

Luckily for me though the second (3rd) round at nearly point blank range between us changed his mind and he shied off to the side then started humping it back towards the tall grass. I figured while I had him in retreat mode I'd make a further impression so I racked another one in and said, "GET HOME", and then felt really pissy when the 4th round failed to fire. By now I was so jittered by my trusty 870's sudden new failure to fire habit that I fired the last round off, and it did go off, and suddenly found myself with an empty gun. I had more ammo, but I should have kept that round in reserve while I reloaded.

So he went his way and I went off to fiddle with the 870, strip it down, clean it, oil it, yada yada, which it probably sorely needed but I think it all came down to old ammo/bad batch. I haven't had any more issues with it.

You might think this was the end of it, and you might think I'd have learned my lesson, but it wasn't and I hadn't.

He came around another time or two only he had a buddy with him. He was a bit more respectful of me, and I never had a clear shot, so I resorted to firing warning shots up in the air when I'd see them and they'd run off and I'd think that was the end of it. Then they'd show up again the next week.

Then there was three of them. Then four. Then one day I saw the bunch of them coming across the neighbors pasture headed towards mine and I decided enough was enough, they were getting to be to much of a threat. I'd get the 870 and wait for them, so I grabbed it and started walking out to the pasture.

There were four, I had four in the tube and one in the chamber. How many spare rounds do you need with a 12ga? I wasn't a total fool though, I grabbed a bandoleer of 00 at the same time I grabbed the shotgun.

So here they come. I'm walking out, they're coming in at an angle, suddenly I noticed there were five this time. These weren't mutts mind you, these were Rotts, fully grown and nice looking ones at that, and I couldn't help but wonder just where in the devil so many Rotts were coming from. So much for a spare round.

Then a sixth trotted into view, and then a seventh. I kinda went slack jawed and sorta felt like throwing down my gun and throwing a hissy fit, I'm in the middle of a field facing down seven Rotts with gun that holds 5 rounds, just where in the tarnation did SEVEN rottweilers come from? And who the bleep was their owner? If I lived through this I'd rip somebodies...

Sure was a funny feeling with seven Rotts and five in the gun, so was the feeling I got when the spotted me and their heads came up and they paused, then turned around and started loping back the way they came. (:

I wasn't too worried as I was expecting if I had to I'd make the five rounds count, maybe have time to reload, the shotty would make a good club, and surely some of them would run off in the meele? Pretty much all of that was running through my head (:

I wasn't disappointed that we didn't have a showdown either though. (: That was also the last time I've seen a Rottweiler around my place, it's been about 4-5 years now. Either they ran into someone else who was more trigger happy than me, or their owner up and moved.

There's been countless other dogs, coyotes, etc in the meanwhile though. The Rotts were just the most memorable group of dogs I've had to deal with. (;

It's pretty country out here, but I don't jog, walk, ride a bike, or do any such activity, but if I did I would certainly carry, first and foremost for the creatures and second for the less likely (IMO) reason of human predators. Not that I'm afraid of the critters, I like most of them, but I've seen enough threats come out of the blue to like to have a tool to deal with them handy should one be needed.

2damnold4this
August 19, 2009, 08:25 AM
http://www.onlineathens.com/stories/081909/new_483168834.shtml

Stevie-Ray
August 19, 2009, 04:55 PM
Just last week, I was walking down to my mothers house at dusk. As I walked behind a car parked in a driveway, a previously unseen dog from the next house lunged at me with it's uh-RUH! It was a German Shephard that appeared nine feet tall. I froze and had my hand already on my weapon, when the dog came to a sudden stop, a foot or so from me, due to the screw-in anchor on it's chain.:rolleyes: "Oh he's gentle, he won't bite" this from the homeowner, as the dog continued making aggressive noises. "Yeah, it looks like it" was my rather snippy reply as I continued shakily on my way, knowing full well that anchor isn't going to hold him one of these days.

Even here, where the dogs aren't known to be feral, dogs are my #1 reason to carry. Too many idiotic owners.

m&p45acp10+1
August 19, 2009, 05:06 PM
In the rural outskirts of where I live in the past few years there have been at least 2 fatal dog attacks that I am aware of.
One happened about 14 years ago. A 16 year old girl was jogging an was attacked and killed by a pair of dogs. Both were rotwiler/great dane mix.
The other happned about 4 years ago. A woman was mowing the grass of her home on a riding lawnmower when a pack of dogs attacked her. Her husband shot 3 of the dogs. She died from blood loss before help arrived.
Most people will say my dog is friendly, and do not understand what they can be capable of.

Kyo
August 19, 2009, 05:12 PM
that sucks. They coulda had a chance if they had a gun

MLeake
August 19, 2009, 08:04 PM
... even family pet dogs, when traveling with a pack, can behave very differently than they do at home.

Feral dogs are much more dangerous than people might think; they're fast, they're intelligent, and they work with a high degree of coordination.

I'm a long-time dog owner, and have a great rapport with most dogs, but when it comes to feral packs I want a weapon; better yet, I want a vehicle.

Lost Sheep
August 20, 2009, 01:50 AM
I was dog-sitting for a friend. A 50-60 lb mixed breed, part boxer, looked like a Rhodesian Ridgeback, but stockier body and shorter nose and very muscular.

I kept him on a leash at all times when outside, even though he was in a fenced yard. I was working in my yard and had him tied to post when a jogger went by. Well, he gave chase and the leash's hook snapped in two. Then he found the hole in the fence behind the rose bush and ran down the jogger like he was going tear him limb from limb. Visions of ambulances and police cars flashed in front of my eyes.

The jogger stopped and petted him and fended off all the licking.

Yep, dogs are unpredictable.

This is not a funny story. The dog has since been put down for aggression. Don't tell me all the ways I, the jogger, the dog and my friend were lucky.

Lost Sheep.

Lost Sheep
August 20, 2009, 02:36 AM
Does anyone know if 5Whiskey lives anywhere near where this happened? He reported in the post/thread "Fired my pistol in SD tonight..." meeting with some dogs that could have done this.

Lost Sheep

chris in va
August 20, 2009, 06:38 AM
I've been chased a few times by dogs, even had a white GSD attack me at a customer's house...only to have the other 'normal' GSD cut it off before it could bite. Wish I had *something* on me at the time.

I actually had a GSD for a couple years. He was great around everyone, but one time while tethered to my front yard tree a little 4yo girl came skipping past him and he went NUTS, jerking the steel cable hard. I had measured it short enough not to go within 5' of the sidewalk, but that really gave me (and the girl) the willies and we soon had to give him away for various reasons. I agree...dogs are unpredictable. Those little Bishon's are pretty reliable though.

MLeake
August 20, 2009, 11:13 AM
I know GSP is German Shorthaired Pointer, but I've never heard of GSD. What is that?

Stevie-Ray
August 20, 2009, 06:09 PM
What's a GSD?Oh that's German Shepherd/Dachshund.:D Actually I think it's German Shepherd Dog

N.H. Yankee
August 24, 2009, 06:20 PM
When walking in my very rural area I carry a can of 10% pepper spray with dye as well as my CCW. If I have to spray a dog, I want the police to be able to light him up after for ID'ing the perp mutt. We also have had coyote attacks, and the yotes here can top 50lbs plus. I also have seen a cougar a few years back just behind my house.

I would rather mace a neighbors dog than shoot if I have too. We have no feral dogs or packs around here, the most I have seen together are 3 tailwagging dogs. Matter of fact I haven't seen a viscious dog around here in quite a while, we had a neighbor few years ago with pitbulls that were nasty but they moved. About the most visciouis foaming at the mouth threat around here are the Liberal soccor moms, you guessed it, thats the real reason for the 10% pepper spray:D

Skans
August 25, 2009, 07:43 AM
I do some jogging and quite a bit of hiking in rural NE Georgia. Most of the folks there own dogs and let them pretty much run free. For the most part they stay on their own land, unless you walk by their land, then they will come out to "greet" you. While I do carry a knife on me, I don't carry a gun (so far) when I'm there.

A couple of things about dogs - they basically don't want to be ignored - stop and let them sniff your hand and that's about all most of them want. I've never had to harm someone's dog for running up to me.

A couple of things about folks in NE Georgia and probably other rural areas - you don't want to hurt their dogs. You might be in the right but nothing good is going to come of that. I'm pretty good with a knife and I know how to fight dogs if necessary. But, that would be an absolute last resort.

I have seen a pack of wild dogs run through one end of my property - they were just running through and I haven't seen them again. But, wild dogs are a different story. If I catch them on my land again, I'll put down every one of them, if I can - just like hunting any other pest.

Daugherty16
August 25, 2009, 01:07 PM
It is too true that you never need your weapon until you need it, but if you don't have it when you truly need it your time on this earth could be over.

I view bad people as a far greater threat than bad dogs, though their intentions are usually much harder to read. However, even a single determined dog can do for you, let alone a 60-77 year old couple. But the proper gun for a dog attack isn't a puny compact 9mm, its a 12 gauge with an extended mag tube loaded with 00 buck. So that's what i carry whenever i go into wild dog country.

Seriously, dog attacks are rare, but often quite severe or fatal when they do happen. Occasionally you'll read about someone who defends himself or others against a mangy cur with his CCW, but more often the victims are unarmed elderly or children. Dogs (even whacked out dogs willing to attack a human) follow the same instinctive prey selection process that BG do - vulnerable, small, and scared is much better for them than big, agressive and unafraid (or appearing so, anyway).

A feral dog is different, and a pack of feral dogs is something i hope neither myself or anyone i know ever encounters. A single dog, you think maybe you could fend it off, even shoot it, maybe even kick it hard enough to back it down. But a pack bent on killing you? if the first shot or two doesn't scatter them, you're pretty likely Alpo.

serf 'rett
September 9, 2009, 09:25 AM
Seriously, dog attacks are rare
If this is true then I’m a statistical anomaly. Without counting the numerous ankle and leg nips from the little “Awww, he/she won’t hurt you” yap-yaps, I remember four distinct full bore attacks in a six week period when I was doing door to door sales 1987. Yeah, I know what you’re thinking; I was in their territory and deserved to be attacked. My hard sided sales case was certainly used for more than carrying materials and only a couple of bites connected. The two times I had to get sewn up were from attacks in the summer of ’68 while riding a bike. The first dog was content with a few bites on my leg but stopped shortly after I came to a stop and could swat at him. Damage – a few stitches in the leg. The second dog, one week later, used the leg hold to bring me to a stop and then started going for the face/throat area. I suspect things would have taken a turn for the worse if I had ever fallen down. It took 4 other people to stop the dog’s attack. Damage – more stitches in leg and stitches in arm.
I’m under no illusions. A single medium size dog can do serious damage faster than you may comprehend.

comn-cents
September 9, 2009, 09:34 AM
gun, knife, pepper-spray, i think i would have had a chance.;)

psyfly
September 9, 2009, 11:43 AM
I think I agree with daugherty16; rare is not necessarily rare enough.


http://www.cdc.gov/HomeandRecreationalSafety/Dog-Bites/biteprevention.html

• About 4.5 million people are bitten by dogs each year.
• Almost one in five of those who are bitten :a total of 885,000: require medical attention for dog bite-related injuries.
• In 2006, more than 31,000 people underwent reconstructive surgery as a result of being bitten by dogs.
(and so far in 2009, there have been 21 reported deaths)


About 7 to 1 odds aren't as good as I'd like.

And that's just for one year. The exposure/risk is additive.

Best be prepared.

ZeSpectre
September 9, 2009, 12:24 PM
The only time I've had to shoot in self defense was against a pack of feral dogs.

Myself as well. And in the end we found out that one of the dogs was rabid so I still give a lot of thanks about that incident.

I thank God for the courage I found at the time.
I thank my Dad for teaching me to shoot.
I thank Remington for reliable equipment!

Ohio Rusty
September 12, 2009, 02:42 PM
Just walking out of your door and locking it behind you is the justification for carrying ..........
Ohio Rusty ><>