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Phoebe
August 17, 2009, 06:49 PM
I met someone yesterday who was wearing a fanny pack, and found myself terribly curious about what was in there.

I suppose if it's well concealed, you don't notice.

My ex-bf carried all the time, and I confess I NEVER noticed. :confused:

I hope this isn't another silly question. I'm noticing things in new ways.

sakeneko
August 17, 2009, 07:01 PM
That's what happens when you get a gun and plan to go for your CCW -- you start noticing things. (To say nothing of what happens when you deal with a stalker.) :( The answer is that you can't always tell. Whether the guy is carrying or not is also pretty much irrelevant unless a) he's creepy, and you're scared of *him* rather than just the gun, or b) someone else who is creepy is around/might be around and you're hoping that he has a gun and can back you up. If either of those is true, I hope you have a plan in place to deal with it.

If not, I'd just accept the curiosity as a normal part of this journey. For me, at least, the curiosity died down over time and I don't usually think about it any more.

Tennessee Gentleman
August 17, 2009, 07:01 PM
Kayla,
That is part of what Tom Gresham calls the "Life Changing" experience of CCW. You will also find yourself more alert to others when you carry. I know I do.

Kyo
August 17, 2009, 07:20 PM
you can just ask. "are you hot?" lol
my uncle, he likes to joke around and actually give me a hug and reach around and check :D even then you couldn't tell.
my sister accidentally found out by literally coming up behind me and slamming into me in the house. reaction was priceless.
so in short, you can't usually tell unless you touch someone

BlackFeather
August 17, 2009, 07:25 PM
I notice cell phones on peoples waists more and more, I also notice people who wear strangely "bumpy" clothing. I think its good to notice these things, but dont fret over it, just keep it in your mind as a side note. I was at the movie theatre in California yesterday and its about 105 outside, this guy was wearing a thin jacket, but still a jacket in the desert, and I could see a bump in his side, a cell phone. Well it took a second but I remembered that its freezing in these movie theatres. So you may not know its a gun, but dont always assume it is. I am not saying that you should throw caution to the wind however.

Phoebe
August 17, 2009, 07:31 PM
He was a little creepy, actually. And he was in a social setting where weapons are specifically banned. But, it may have just had his wallet in it for all I know.

Kyo, I'm afraid of what would happen if I asked random guys if they were hot! lol!

Niisan2309
August 17, 2009, 07:39 PM
My uncle wears a fanny pack all the time. He doesn't carry (principle of a catholic school), but he keeps his wallet, camera, and phone in there.

fastforty
August 17, 2009, 10:29 PM
I've only 100% "made" one person in the 10 years or so that I've been looking. We were in a meeting in a public building that had a HUGE sign covering the whole window next to the entrance door proclaiming it any number of listed crimes to carry a weapon inside. The guy was wearing a big black fanny pack & he musta had a Desert Eagle crammed in there, cuz the buldge in the top of the fanny pack was *obviously* printing the back end of a slide, hammer and grip safety. I mean, you could see "gun" from across the room. The guy *looked* like a cop, so I gave him some benefit but kept an eye on him just the same. When it came time for introductions, he stated that he was a police officer and as he turned I saw his badge pinned to the other side of the fanny pack.

Aside from that, there's been quite a few people that I was about 98% sure they were packing, just by their body language.

MLeake
August 17, 2009, 11:26 PM
... was in the late 80's. Older gentleman was carrying in plain sight at the Fashion Square Mall in Orlando. NAA mini-revolver in a belt buckle holder. Those were still fairly uncommon, then, and virtually everybody seemed to think it was just a decorative buckle.

As far as telling if somebody is carrying, there are various cues you can pick up on, that others have already covered. My rules of thumb, though:

1) Assume everybody IS carrying. Better to be surprised when they are not, than when they are.

2) If somebody's behavior makes you nervous, don't worry about whether he is armed. Your subconscious has probably picked up on cues that you haven't consciously processed yet. If your internal alarms are going off, stay away from that person, pay even closer attention to your surroundings in case you need an escape route or a police officer, and prepare to vacate the area.

3) If you can consciously determine a valid reason why that person is making you nervous, consider calling the police.

Trashcan-man
August 17, 2009, 11:55 PM
And he was in a social setting where weapons are specifically banned.

Just out of curiousity where was this? I've been a lot of places where my girlfriend says "you're not gonnd need that in there" or "do you have to carry that thing around all the time?" But I cannot think of a place where it would be banned...unless the host specifically said "no guns."
Oh...or maybe the event was at a post office, polling place or police station?:confused:

MLeake
August 18, 2009, 12:00 AM
... but in Florida, a "social setting where weapons are specifically banned" would include a nightclub, or a bar, or a bar and grill if food didn't make up at least a certain percentage (I think 50% but it's been a while since I checked) of revenue from sales.

Not sure if she meant by law, or by venue owner.

dev_null
August 18, 2009, 12:09 AM
Many states bar carrying in houses of worship as well.

Skan21
August 18, 2009, 12:19 AM
Concealed carry is fairly common here, so every once in a while, I'll see someone printing outrageously. They're probably just new to CCW. It's important to inspect yourself in front of a mirror, from whatever angles you can see. I used to carry in a shoulder holster ( shortly!) but then my uncle told me that I print badly like that. So I switched to IWB, and I haven't had a problem since. I wear T shirts or long sleve dress shirts most of the year, normally in light colors ( purple, pink, yellow, white etc) so a black shoulder holster, with a black 5" pistol is fairly noticeable.

WhiteShadow
August 18, 2009, 12:20 AM
Alot of times theres absolutely no way of knowing, short of asking the person.

MajorWhiteBoy
August 18, 2009, 12:33 AM
i've never seen someone i knew was carrying. if i have my .38 on, i bet nobody would ever guess i was carrying.

heck, i KNOW my sister usually carries, and i still have to ask her.

Trashcan-man
August 18, 2009, 12:44 AM
... but in Florida, a "social setting where weapons are specifically banned" would include a nightclub, or a bar, or a bar and grill if food didn't make up at least a certain percentage (I think 50% but it's been a while since I checked) of revenue from sales.

Not sure if she meant by law, or by venue owner.

Yeah...you can carry in a restaurant/bar as long as you are in the restaurant part and not the bar part. As I understand it you cannot be in the part of the restaurant that makes most of it's money through alcohol.
But that's what I'm saying, then it would be illegal to carry and her bf would have been an idiot to go to a place like a nightclub, bar etc with a gun anywhere near him.
As I read her statement, it was a social thing, ie something that wasn't illegal just not wanted. I'm wondering where that would be. I've gone places where if the owner/host knew I was carrying I'd probably have been asked to leave...but I was concealed...they never knew. I'm just wondering what type of gathering is there where the owner/host says no guns before the event.

+1 skan
Here in FL there is no open carry...if I print then I think it's a felony...so I have to make sure I don't print. Honestly I know that I've printed in the past, and either nobody noticed or they didn't care. Its hard to check yourself because you know it's there...my litmus test is my gf, if she doesn't notice it when I walk out of the bathroom then I'm good. Especially since she knows I carry alot.

fastforty
August 18, 2009, 12:44 AM
Many states bar carrying in houses of worship as well.
Yeah well, I'll have to take that one up with The Big Man Himself. Too many sheep in those buildings, someone has to have a shepherd's hook (figuratively speaking) to conk a wolf on the head with (also figuratively speaking).

MajorWhiteBoy
August 18, 2009, 12:49 AM
when i took my ccw, the guy giving the class told us about all kinds of folks from churches getting the license. in fact, one church made it an outing, filled up the whole class.

Phoebe
August 18, 2009, 12:59 AM
Trashcan-man (and any other curious folks), I belong to a fraternal organization that specifically bans firearms at events. The event in question was in a private home.

I don't mean banned as in illegal.

onthejon55
August 18, 2009, 01:41 AM
well if they're legit CCW permit holders they will be displaying their Concealed Weapon Permit badge.

If you dont already have one you can get it here (http://www.popguns.com/badge_cwp.htm)

OldShooter
August 18, 2009, 06:19 AM
Right, for only $27.95 plus shipping and handling you can buy some shiny tin to advertise what you are supposed to be hiding. That's pretty sharp.

Hornett
August 18, 2009, 08:21 AM
I'm noticing things in new ways. +1
Keep up the good work.
Most people never even see what is going on around them.

When you get to the point that you look at your local police to see what pistol they are carrying, you're a gun nut. :D

ad313am
August 18, 2009, 08:59 AM
well if they're legit CCW permit holders they will be displaying their Concealed Weapon Permit badge.

If you dont already have one you can get it here I thought the whole point of carring concealed was to be CONCEALED! The badge is a dumb idea IMO.

AirForceShooter
August 18, 2009, 09:10 AM
if somebody else is carrying why do I even care?

AFS

dukenukum
August 18, 2009, 09:22 AM
My dad wore a fanny pack not for his .45 but for his insulin. The .45 was carried right side IWB.

hogdogs
August 18, 2009, 09:36 AM
Kayla, I guess if "Are you hot?" is out of the question... You won't like to use "So whatcha packin?":o
Brent

Phoebe
August 18, 2009, 09:42 AM
HogDog, actually, I think it might be potentially more problematic if a man asked another man if he's hot. :D

Phoebe
August 18, 2009, 09:52 AM
if somebody else is carrying why do I even care?

AFS

Please remember, I am brand new to all of this. For me it is:
1) a point of curiosity
2) part of a general increase in my awareness about what's going on around me

Presumably a year from now, I won't care either.

kazanski612
August 18, 2009, 10:04 AM
well if they're legit CCW permit holders they will be displaying their Concealed Weapon Permit badge.

If you dont already have one you can get it here

Ha! I needed a good laugh today and this did it. Thanks. :)

MajorWhiteBoy
August 18, 2009, 10:05 AM
yeah, when i started to get my ccw, i tried to see who was carrying. i don't recall ever having spotted one. i guess folks are good at concealing.

i've only had mine a few months. the curiosity is gone now i guess. i don't really try to spot folks anymore.

kazanski612
August 18, 2009, 10:24 AM
It's not specific to fanny packs, but I thought this was interesting:

(sorry, I couldn't get the picture to display right so here's the link)

http://www.blameitonthevoices.com/2009/01/how-to-spot-guy-carrying-gun.html

dev_null
August 18, 2009, 11:21 AM
I don't know about anyone else, but when I started carrying I spent so much time worrying about pulling my shirt tail down it must've been obvious to any gun person that I was carrying! :D

Trashcan-man
August 18, 2009, 11:25 AM
Oh, Ok. Sorry I didn't mean to pry into your personal life. I was just confused as to where you could carry legally but it would be against the "social rules." Thanks for the answer.

Wagonman
August 18, 2009, 04:41 PM
Please remember, I am brand new to all of this. For me it is:
1) a point of curiosity
2) part of a general increase in my awareness about what's going on around me

good on you Kayla

Edward429451
August 18, 2009, 06:04 PM
Little nuances of behavior will give them away...

Are those gangbanger types really walking around holding their package or just holding their gun up in the baggy pants lol!

I see people packing here and there, less lately, maybe people are getting better.

My nose has ID'd gun oil a few times also;)

HDTVSELLER
August 19, 2009, 01:07 AM
ive started looking more for their backs insted of their sides bc most people carry spare mags on their belt holster and thats what catches my eye bc most of the time when im thinking they are carrying a gun it tends to be a cell phone pouch or leatherman or so on but not very many people carry things on the back left side if you right handed unless its 2 extra mags or so on. but thats just me and thats why i started carring my extra 19 round mag in the cell phone pouch on most carpenter jeans bc no one ever thinks to look all the way down the side of you leg and 2 when you bend over it dont pay a surprise to some one that may not think you carry for yours and theirs protection.

Phoebe
August 19, 2009, 08:18 AM
Why is it so awful if you're printing or made? Is it illegal to print in some states? If you're in an open carry state, does anyone actually care? Or is it just bad manners?

I'm finding all of this like a new alien world.

It also seems like people who carry concealed, spend an awful lot of time worrying and fussing over not printing, not being made, and wearing stuff where they never have to set their gun down. Sounds like a lifestyle??

Hornett
August 19, 2009, 09:16 AM
Yes, in some states it is illegal to 'print'.
Personally, I think that is incredibly stupid (for lack of a better term right now).
I don't know which states that is, though.
I don't want to print myself because I want the advantage of no one knowing I have a gun. Then I get to choose when I present.

It is often said here that "The only way you will have a gun when you need it is to carry it all the time, no exceptions."
So, yes, Concealed carry does become a lifestyle.
It even affects the clothes you wear.
Some clothes just do not lend themselves to concealed carry.

kazanski612
August 19, 2009, 09:16 AM
Is it illegal to print in some states?
Yes. Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Florida?, South Carolina, NY...

http://www.opencarry.org

pax
August 19, 2009, 09:24 AM
Why is it so awful if you're printing or made? Is it illegal to print in some states? If you're in an open carry state, does anyone actually care? Or is it just bad manners?

In some states -- some but not all non-open-carry states -- printing is downright illegal and will get your right to carry revoked.

Not all open carry states are the same, and not all areas within a single open carry state are the same. For example, Washington state has open carry, and I've occasionally failed to toss my cover garment back on when traveling the two miles from the (rural) range back to my (rural) home because I know that if anyone saw me (unlikely), they would not care out here. But if I were in Seattle or Vancouver or Olympia, I definitely would not do that unless I wanted to spend my day talking guns with strangers and perhaps with police officers as well. So it's not a matter of "open carry state = nobody cares if they see a gun in the open." It's very location and context specific even in gun friendly states.

It also seems like people who carry concealed, spend an awful lot of time worrying and fussing over not printing, not being made, and wearing stuff where they never have to set their gun down. Sounds like a lifestyle??

It seems like that online, where you have two basic populations of people talking about the nuts and bolts of carrying concealed:

1) newcomers, who are always obsessively worried about it, and
2) people who've done it for years and who are trying to explain the whole deal to the newcomers, helping the newcomers understand exactly how it's done.

Once you get past the newcomer period, the worry wears off and it's just something you do. Honest.

pax

kazanski612
August 19, 2009, 10:19 AM
Well said. :)

Kyo
August 19, 2009, 10:45 AM
you go through the newbie stage for about a month or 2. I literally would ask the GF at the time if she could tell. then after that, she would ask if i was carrying and couldn't tell. it was the gear to be honest. once I picked up gear I was comfortable with, I would sometimes forget I would carry it was so nice. gearing as in holster/belt.
but take it from me when you carry around you will always have it in the back of your head. I always will anyway. You aren't really supposed to forget something like that. its more of the being aware thing. You look around more, you notice small things, you start thinking like a bad guy would to see where and when you are vulnerable. you should really check out
nononsenseselfdefense.com

Phoebe
August 19, 2009, 08:12 PM
Talked to my gun club people today about CCW. They seem to think I'd pass the qualifier already. :cool: (My dry fire practice is making a huge difference. I confess I'm surprised.)

But then I started talking to them about nuts and bolts and I'm dismayed at what I'm hearing.

"Dress for the gun." :(

Maybe I need to take this over to the women and guns board. Or maybe there are no good solutions for me that won't feel like I'm compromising myself.

I like to dress how I like to dress. And it seems like the best choices for clothing while carrying, are masculine. I almost never even wear jeans, let alone anything else that lends itself to carrying. But I'd really like to figure something out.

Per the guy at the gun store:
female + fanny pack leaves you in much danger of having the bag taken from you.
Behind the back, he feels, leaves you at risk of paraplegia.
He said something bad about the cross carry bags, but I don't remember what.
He feels the only safe, reasonable thing to do is owb or iwb.

He also suggested I look at galco.

Despite improving marksmanship, I can't see any of this being an issue for anything sooner than 30 days from now. But I'm trying to understand: 1) what I want to do; 2) how to move forward if I do want to conceal carry.

Willie Lowman
August 19, 2009, 08:28 PM
I met someone yesterday who was wearing a fanny pack, and found myself terribly curious about what was in there.


The fanny pack *can* be the worst give away for packing a gun. I have spotted a few through the years, usually middle aged white guys that are wearing the pack on their strong side (like a regular holster) sometimes making the mistake of walking around with their hand on the gun like some cops do.

Those guys did not put one single thought into what they were doing.

There are *other* people that look for folks carrying guns and they aren't on our side. I know a dumbass that didn't conceal his baby .45 very well and was robed for his carry gun. But I don't know all the details of that story because the afore mentioned dumbass won't talk about it and the guy that robed him is in jail...

pax
August 19, 2009, 08:34 PM
Kayla,

It can be done, and you do NOT need to dress like a boy.

See http://web.mac.com/mj_lauer/iWeb/RangeDiary/Welcome.html for some ideas. From there you can follow links to her YouTube channel, and I think I remember that she had quite a few helpful videos there.

On Cornered Cat, read the "holsters" section mostly, esp the articles titled "How Do I Hide This Thing" and "Straight Talk About Curves" - and I think I've also got something at http://www.corneredcat.com/Practical/fashionable.aspx that might help a bit.

Oh, re the fanny pack? :D :D :D Concealability depends on which pack you choose! -- and also how you dress around it. See http://www.theconcealmentshop.com/aepacks.html and note the beautiful tapestry designs, the practical nylon color designs, and the handcrafted leather designs. I can tell you from experience that these packs hold up very well and (because they come in different color and design options) they can fly quite well beneath the radar for concealed carry. Just stay away from plain black leather, and choose the smallest bag that will accomodate your firearm.

Don't believe misogynists who would rather have you NOT carry at all than to have you carry in some feminine way. Yes, purses can be snatched. However, a bag attached securely to your body (as a fanny pack is) is not likely to result in a snatching.

pax

Phoebe
August 19, 2009, 08:37 PM
Pax, I was all over corneredcat again last night.

I confess that the first time I looked at that site, it merely made my eyes glaze over. Too much info, too soon.

But re-reading last night was good. And, in fact, it's that site that got me thinking about a lot of new things, including realizing that I think I do want to conceal carry, but can't figure out how I can be comfortable.

I look forward to seeing the pointers you've given me.

Trashcan-man
August 19, 2009, 08:50 PM
Kayla,
Yes you have to "dress around the gun." I live in FL where if I am caught carrying it means loss of my cwp and most likely jail time...even if I print too much this can happen so I am very familiar with dressing for the gun. I'm not a woman so I cannot tell you what options you have for gender specific carry. I can suggest you look at the thread about the smart carry holster/thunderwear which are good and comfortable. I know it sounds funny but both are worn like a fanny pack but under your pants. I just ordered mine and I'm sure there are others that can speak for these types of holsters. Other than that....I seem to remember crossbreed holsters has some purses that have a built in holster...in any case check their website they have GREAT holsters and offer a 2 week trial period and a lifetime guarantee.
As far as the gun counter guy goes...most people will tell you that its better to have a gun than not. It doesn't matter where on your person you carry as long as it works for YOU. If you can't carry iwb or owb then don't. If the best you can do is in a fanny pack then its better than leaving it home. Just remember, once you start carrying the one time you leave it at home is the one time you're gonna need it. Murphys law.

Lost Sheep
August 19, 2009, 08:52 PM
Kayla,

Dressing to camoflage too-skinny legs or to enhance shapely shoulders is not so different than dressing to camoflage a gun.

Dressing to disquise a gun is not something girls learn growing up in this country, but if you are going to carry, it is something you should not resist. Think of it as just part of the holster.

Lost Sheep

Dr Raoul Duke
August 19, 2009, 09:25 PM
I was a police officer for 10 years and became quite good at spotting people carrying weapons. What I see first is not the weapon, it's the general unease, that (what we used to call) "hinkey" quality. It's kind of a "I'm not doing anything specifically wrong, but I don't fit in" look. I occasionally spot someone who is also carrying (I have a CCW and carry 24/7), and it is usually because they have acquired some kind of carry "hitch". If the piece is in his waistband, you'll see him "hitch up" after getting out of a car, or do a do a "tuck" check to make sure it's still covered. Shoulder holster wearers will also hitch at straps, and straps will occasionally show. MTB carriers almost always show when they bend over. Ankle holsters can slide down or show when the user crosses his legs. I carry a pretty small pistol, a SA XD40 SC in a Milt Spark's Summer Special 2 holster, and between a flabby belly and big flappy shirts it would be hard to find it. I would asay that as a general rule the longer someone has been carrying, the more relaxed they become, and the harder it becomes to spot.:)

Dr. Raoul Duke
Gonzo Forever

Walter
August 19, 2009, 10:44 PM
1) Assume everybody IS carrying. Better to be surprised when they are not, than when they are. MLeake said it, and that is my approach
as well.;)
Two tours of ground combat in VietNam in the Marine Corps imprinted in my
brain "Suspect Everybody!". It won't go away, so I just go with it.
It's worked, so far.:D

Walter

sakeneko
August 19, 2009, 11:11 PM
I suspect that people who carry for general SD but who aren't involved in illegal or questionable activities would also be a lot more relaxed, even those of us who haven't been doing this for long.

Don P
August 20, 2009, 10:38 AM
I like to dress how I like to dress. And it seems like the best choices for clothing while carrying, are masculine. I almost never even wear jeans, let alone anything else that lends itself to carrying. But I'd really like to figure something out.
The wife does the same, and she carries daily. All of her (purses) bags are made for carry. Most have come from www.coronadoleather.com. She has a job where dressing up is a must. So holster wear is out of the question. This method of carry will solve the problem of having to dress a certain way in order to carry. My personal experiences are that most of the general public are in what we call (condition white) totally oblivious to there surrounding and will never notice you are carring. Most people that carry and as to your question are in (condition yellow) aware of what is goin on around them.
I have sat at a table next to 2 police officers having breakfast and afterwards realized that I was printing and neither of them noticed.

Phoebe
August 20, 2009, 10:46 AM
Don, the question of carrying aside, I've realized you're right.

Part of what is feeling like a life-changing experience, is realizing that most people, including me, walk around in a bit of a daze. We walk around talking on our phones, or daydreaming, or otherwise off in lala land. And we have no clue what's going on around us.

It has surprised me to find out there is an alternative between being checked out and being hyper alert and paranoid.

I'm starting to develop a relaxed awareness.

Who just walked past me?

What cars are in my neighborhood on a regular basis vs a car I haven't seen before?

I'm about to step out of my car. Who's around me?

etc.

Right now, it scares me to realize how oblivious I've been.

I hadn't heard condition white vs yellow before. But yellow is becoming my lifestyle (down from orange.)

Don P
August 20, 2009, 11:04 AM
Great, today is not wasted, you have learned something as the saying goes. As far as conditions go, white (oblivious-la-la land) as you stated and I like that. yellow (having a grip) and finally condition red. This being the threat is seen and action is most probably forth comming. As many will state be comfy with you method of carry and you WILL carry all the time when legal to do so. Being uncomfy with the method of carry will mean your gun will spend more time at home than with you ( not good ) And when you deside on a method of carry practice, practice and practice on the draw. Proficientcy will come with practice as well as confidence. Welcome to the world of guns and Conceal Carry

eclipsetactical
August 20, 2009, 12:40 PM
Most people are unaware of everything that is going on around them at all times. They are off in thier own world. Now when you are around somebody that has tactical training or combat experience you will notice that they know everything. What is behind them, what the guy behind them is wearing. What is to both sides of him or her. Where the nearest exit is, where the nearest cover is. Weird thing about it is most soldiers bring that home from the battlefeild with them and it stays with them for years if not life. You will find many that have been in combat dont like people standing behind them at all....If they are going to be in a place talking for a few minutes most will possition themself witht hier back to a wall or other object so they have a full feild of veiw in front and side of them. They may also be listening to you while you are talking but they are also constantly scanning everyone and everything around them.

Just getting your CCDW will give you some what of a hightened sence of what people are doing and what they could potentially be carrying. Sometimes you also find yourself profiling people by the way they look or act. Now the way they act part tells you alot more than the way they look. Looks can be very deceiving as we all know. Actions are a much stronger thing to look at to determine what a person is capible of or thinking about. Ticks, constant grabbing of waist line or reaching in pocket, eye movements. It all comes in to play.

BTW hope you stay safe Kayla, I kinda talked to you the other day through PM. Really hope that guy quits harrassing you, no woman or man for that matter deserves to be afraid of sitting in thier own home and not being safe. Best of luck to you sweetie.

Madcap_Magician
August 21, 2009, 09:17 AM
My wife is better at sniffing out people with guns than I am- she's truly uncanny.

But generally, the bulging clothing, unseasonal clothing, 5.11 gear or similar clothing, fanny packs, photographer vests all signal to me that someone is CCWing.

Bulges at the abdomen or small of back, with someone continually touching or adjusting the area, suggest someone illegally carrying to me, which is done predominately without holsters, so you see people adjusting the gun a lot more.

csmsss
August 21, 2009, 09:18 AM
I just assume that every non-naked person I run across is armed, and behave accordingly.

Phoebe
August 21, 2009, 09:33 AM
Madcap, constant touching might also just mean "beginner who is worried."

I think I'm going to try Galco's under wrap. Wish places had some kind of return policy if something doesn't work for you.

Now I'm also trying to figure out if I need a small gun. The XD9 seems gigantic for carrying (for me.) Tried a little Kel-Tec 9mm yesterday but had a hard time controlling it.

Don P
August 21, 2009, 10:09 AM
Take a look at Glocks G26 9mm, G30 and G36 which are 45acp. S&W Jframe revolvers are another choice. What caliber are you thinking of carrying and revolver or semi-auto?

pax
August 21, 2009, 10:12 AM
Kayla,

Over on the W&G boards, in a sticky at the top of the forum, there's a thread titled "Does size matter?" started by Gila Hayes. The thread itself is worth reading, but if you can get your hands on the W&G article it references, you'll find some truly excellent advice about finding the balance between shoot-ability and carry-ability when selecting a firearm.

Oh, btw, I think you'll like the Underwrap. Be obsessively careful about safety when placing the gun into the belly band and you should be fine.

Kathy

Trashcan-man
August 21, 2009, 11:56 AM
Kayla,
If you do decide you need a smaller gun for carry, remember that S/A makes a sub-compact in 9mm as well. They are very nice guns, and it should shoot similar to your full sized model.

Phoebe
August 21, 2009, 07:27 PM
DonP wrote: Take a look at Glocks G26 9mm, G30 and G36 which are 45acp. S&W Jframe revolvers are another choice. What caliber are you thinking of carrying and revolver or semi-auto?

I'd like to stick with a 9mm but that's not written in stone. I have also been looking at the S&W 60 (I think.)

Pax, the smallest that under wrap goes is 30. That may be too big. :confused: I swear there is some market for women-gun stuff that it seems like no one is addressing very well. (Or maybe I still just haven't found it.) That said, if I can find a place with a return policy, I would like to try that. But what happens if it's big? Will it just hang lower on my hip? Or can I actually tighten it more?

I found some compression undershirt today that seemed kind of interesting. The store ordered one for me in a SM, but I'm afraid that will also be too big.

In reality, I'm not that small, and I wonder what on earth a really petite woman ends up with for options.

Trashcan-man, I'm told that XD9-SC is still relatively hefty. I confess I fall more in love with my XD everyday, and would love it if I could find a smaller version to carry. But I need to see one in person to see if it would make much difference. I think I was told the grip is about the same?

Pax, I will go re-read that thread. I need to get my CCW in gear asap. Apparently, it can take up to 120 days to go through. :eek:

Trashcan-man
August 21, 2009, 08:44 PM
Kayla,
The xd sub is, to me, pretty small. IMO it is comparable to the glock subs but obviously doesn't compare to a pocket pistol or a small revolver. I like them because the come with a sub mag and an extended mag that makes the grip equal to the compact sie. This makes it better for those long range sessions. I do not have one yet but I probably will by the end of the year. If you can rent one you should, definitely worth it.

sakeneko
August 21, 2009, 09:11 PM
Kayla, the Model 60 isn't an ultralight. I own one; it's a solid steel revolver although one of the smaller ones. They've probably got one at the gun club you joined. From what you've posted elsewhere, I gather that the long, heavy trigger pull on double-action revolvers wears out your fingers, however. The Model 60 has a *nice* trigger pull compared to other new revolvers in its class (and other revolver makes, period), but it still requires strength in the fingers.

If you like the 9 mm you bought (and my husband certainly loves his target shooting version of the same pistol), why not take a look at the compact 9 mm semiautomatics made by the same company? That would seem to be an obvious first step if you want to find a smaller gun to carry concealed.

pax
August 21, 2009, 09:30 PM
If you like the 9 mm you bought (and my husband certainly loves his target shooting version of the same pistol), why not take a look at the compact 9 mm semiautomatics made by the same company? That would seem to be an obvious first step if you want to find a smaller gun to carry concealed.

Darn Good Advice.

pax

Phoebe
August 21, 2009, 10:07 PM
Sakeneko, the real reason I was looking at the S&W is that the guy at the range gave me some scenario of one of the gun purses and how easy it would be to shoot a revolver out of one...and how difficult the slide on a 9mm would be for the same usage.

But in reality, my hands will probably love me more if I avoid the revolvers.

No XD9-SC rental at the range. In fact, there isn't even one in stock, so I can't put one in my hands.

Maybe the right starting point is to figure out if I can conceal the gun I already like. I haven't owned the XD for long but everytime I try something else, I feel like I'm coming back to an old friend when I return to the XD.

That said, I've only tried 2 semi-autos, the one being the Kel-Tec. I'm curious about that Glock 26 and wonder if I can rent that one.

Trashcan-man, do you think the XD-SC is about the same size as the Glock 26??

(Give me a year, and I bet I have the start of a small armory. :D In two years, I may be accessorizing my pistol along with my shoes. ;))

sakeneko
August 22, 2009, 01:25 AM
Sakeneko, the real reason I was looking at the S&W is that the guy at the range gave me some scenario of one of the gun purses and how easy it would be to shoot a revolver out of one...and how difficult the slide on a 9mm would be for the same usage.

Hadn't thought of that scenario, but he'd be right if you were shooting from inside a purse.

Maybe the right starting point is to figure out if I can conceal the gun I already like. I haven't owned the XD for long but everytime I try something else, I feel like I'm coming back to an old friend when I return to the XD.

I don't know if this is relevant, but my husband carries his XD-M concealed. Of course, he's around six feet tall and dresses like a typical guy (jeans, belt), which *does* make that easier. I think I'd be able to conceal his gun, too, though, if I were to carry it, and I'm only 5'7". It's longer and wider than my Model 60, but doesn't have the bump that revolvers always have.

Skan21
August 22, 2009, 02:56 AM
the XD(M)9 is almost a bit much for me, and I'm 6' 225lbs. My IWB works pretty well though, and it's almost never uncomfortable. Mitch Rosen makes a pretty good looking purse ( Says my wife.), so you could look there. I also have a Springer xd9 sub, and with a mag extender, it's a perfect sized concealed piece for me. Without the mag extender, it might be perfect for you. I love what Springfield imports/makes, and I'm having a hard time sticking to my "Buy American" line. I've bought 3 in 2 years. Springfield loaded 1911, XD9 sub, and XD(M)9. It would have been so easy for my beloved Ruger to win my polymer money though. Stupid SR9 garbage trigger. And no 1911 for me to choose from. And stupid Springfield for importing an excellent piece of hardware.

Ares
August 22, 2009, 03:20 AM
I found it easier to carry a full size 1911 than a XD9SC. Im 5'8" about 190lbs. The XD gave me a massive bulge that I was always worried about. It is kind of thick.

pax
August 22, 2009, 09:57 AM
Kayla,

Sorry, missed the sizing question re the underwrap. You'll be able to tighten it -- a little -- if it's too large. And you'll also be able to position it lower or whatever. They're fairly flexible. Of course, if it is very much too large you'll have a problem, but ... even then, the thing is basically just a piece of wide elastic with velcro ends. Shortening one would probably be within the reach of even the most casual seamstress.

pax

Phoebe
August 22, 2009, 10:29 AM
That Glock 26 sounds like a good choice.

I'm going to the range later and see what they have for me to play with.

Madcap_Magician
August 24, 2009, 12:47 PM
Kayla, good point about new CCWers and constant gun adjustment.

It can also just be a sign of someone with a bad holster.

spacemanspiff
August 24, 2009, 04:13 PM
A lot of proper concealment for any body has to do with a quality holster. If you go cheap and get something from any chain sporting goods store, it won't be the same as getting something that is handmade, specifically designed for your gun, and for the way you wish to carry it.

I believe that just about any pistol can be concealed, and without compromising good taste in clothing.

You don't have to set your mind on looking for a gun that is named 'ultra compact' in order to succeed at getting a gun that you can shoot and fits your body well.

N.H. Yankee
August 24, 2009, 05:28 PM
Personally I an mot a fan of fannypack carry, not that people may wonder, but a fannypack can be taken from you unless attached through ones belt loop. The buckles on many are on the side or back in most cases and is easy access for ripoffs. I don't even worry about printing my gun, I wear loose tee's and keep my colors dark. Light colors make it easier to spot a bulge and in some materials see through.

There are so many people carrying a variety of electronics from their belt, around their waist with pouch's or in a shoulder bag today, only those that carry know for sure in most cases. I think concealing most compact semi's today is very easy especially considering the selection of holsters in todays market. Back in the day, there wasn't a whole lot to chose from and shoulder holsters were the rage for many. Also guns have evolved to smaller platforms as well.

I read a book many years ago, the writer was telling about the time Major George Nonte ( gunwriter ) had 13 guns hidden oin his body. He challenged his associates to find the guns, they could only find 12 and many with a degree of difficulty. They never found #13 and they dared not ask either, also guns were not as compact as some are today.

ECHOONE
August 24, 2009, 10:31 PM
I don't get it,why do you care what anyone has in there fanny pack?Think your loosing sight of what they mean by situational awareness!

MLeake
August 24, 2009, 10:44 PM
... but he does care about the relatively high incidence of purse and camera bag snatching. This is a definite downside to a gun in a purse or fannypack. If the owner isn't paying close attention, he or she could lose the weapon rather quickly.

In an ideal world, the owner's situational awareness would never allow a purse/pack snatching attempt. Unfortunately, the real world isn't ideal, and the odds of having the gun "snatched" by a skillful thief are significantly lower if the holster is on your body instead of in a container.

Trashcan-man
August 24, 2009, 11:53 PM
Kayla,
Try the glock, if the 26 is the sub-compact model then I definately feel that the xd is equal in size to it. Personally I would say that since you have an xd that you should try to stick with that line...unless you really like the glock(my experience is that glocks are love 'em or hate 'em, not much middle ground) in which case get the glock, whatever works best for you.
As far as the fanny pack, I can admit to wearing one for 2 basic scenarios. 1, going on a long road trip where I don't want to wear a holster the whole time but still want to carry when I get out for rest stops and gas. 2, if I am going to run to the store for milk, eggs, etc 1 or 2 quick things then I have been known to grab a fanny pack. BTW for those that do want to use one may want to look into the "keepers" that the police use to hold their gun belt to their belt. It's basically just a little strip of leather with metal snaps that you wrap around both belts and snap closed. I put the snaps on the inside to give an added measure of security.

Phoebe
August 25, 2009, 12:01 AM
Wrote about my Glock experience today in another thread. I can shoot well with it but it's not comfy in my hand, and spat brass at my head. :eek: I'm told the brass hitting my head has to do with the range having tight walls and the Glock having a hard right-eject. But I was glad I had on safety glasses.

The size of the Glock 26 seems to be the right compromise I'm looking for. But I'd prefer something that feels more "at home" in my hand.

Trashcan-man
August 25, 2009, 12:27 AM
I don't like the glocks either...please don't flame me...not that they aren't good guns, they are excellent. But the grip feels wonky to me and the recoil doesn't feel right to me. That's why I like the xd's so much, they point very naturally for me. The sc's are the same, you should definately try one....see if you can find a member of the gun club that is willing to let you shoot his.