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View Full Version : What's the best 40 S&W for IDPA?


Jim243
August 16, 2009, 10:42 AM
Started shooting IDPA last month in 9 mm and I am considering using a 40 S&W for it. Any ideas as to what would be the best pistol to use?

Jim243
August 16, 2009, 04:40 PM
Any opions on the CZ 75 SP-01 Tactical??

rduckwor
August 17, 2009, 05:24 AM
Jim, that's hard to say as we ain't you.

The XD-M seems to be highly regarded in the modern pistols group, though you could go retro with the older S&W auto loader line.

I don't have a CZ tactical, but I have its predecessor, the Phantom and its a very nice pistol. The Tactical has received glowing reviews from everyone who seems to have shot it.

You really have to shoot these guns to decide what is best for you. We, arm chair commandos, can't do much of anything but give you suggestions.

I will tell you that in my experience, the 40S&W is a much more "snappy" round than the 9MM. Eminently controllable, but too snappy for some to enjoy shooting.

Why not shoot some more matches and watch what others are shooting. Most are willing to spot you a few rounds with their pistol. Good way to try before buying.

Jim Watson
August 17, 2009, 06:19 AM
There is no reason to buy a new .40 to shoot IDPA, it confers no advantage in scoring as it would in IPSC. Unless you are a proficient handloader to back it down to 9mm or .38 ballistics the greater recoil will be a liability.

CZs are good guns in general, but the the SP 01 Tactical gets you into a confusing mess of rules and interpretations. I do not think it is allowable because of its full length dust cover and weight.

Strick
August 17, 2009, 07:58 AM
Yeah there is no reason to use a .40 in IDPA and can be a disadnatage due to recoil. If you want to shoot one that is fine and understandable but I would stick with a 9mm.

And yes the SP 01 is legal technically but the weight is the big killer. You can shoot a gun with a full length dust cover in ESP as long as the gun is legal for SSP. The weight limit for SSP is is what causes problems for the SP 01. If you like the CZ's, which I do, look at the regular 75B or the clones like the Witness. The Witness is an excellent gun for IDPA and cheaper than a CZ. Even comes in 9mm, .40, and 10mm if you want to go big.;)

Jim243
August 17, 2009, 10:52 PM
Thanks guys those are all good points, I was thinking IPSC where a 9 mm would be - I forget what they call it - light weight or something. You are right for the time being I will stick with IDPA and the 9 mm.

I currently shoot 40 S&W in a Taurus PT140 but not IDPA just for fun, But I am not sure how I can call a 3" CCW gun fun. Not too bad with it but I don't think it would be a good compition pistol.

I like the looks of the "Witness" and was waiting for the weekend to see if I could handle a Taurus PT840 and take a second look at 24/7 tactical at the gun shop. But nothing just jumps out and says "Buy Me". Now a Sig would be nice but twice the price.

Stick what's the weight problem? I am really green in this sport. But like everyone else I am hooked on it.

Jim your point is well taken, almost every one I have meet is using a 9mm, which suprised me, except for one using a 38 super (no I reload for 12 calibers now, I do not need another one). I was going to change from 180 grain HP to 135 grain HP and download to 800-900 fps. Not sure how that would work out. (Isn't there a fps limit in the rule book?)

RD - your right about it being more snappy. The only problem with the XD is it has no hammer, I'm old school about that. I shoot a 4" 45 APC 1911 and a 2.25" 357 mag for fun so the 40's are not that different and present no problem, but the 9mm is like shooting a 22 for me, I need to slow down with the 9 and pick up less points.

You guys are right I need to do more matches with the 9's and see what others are using. I think I just have the itch for another shooter.

Thanks again
Jim

Jim Watson
August 18, 2009, 06:53 AM
I reload for 12 calibers now, I do not need another one). I was going to change from 180 grain HP to 135 grain HP and download to 800-900 fps. Not sure how that would work out. (Isn't there a fps limit in the rule book?)

There is a Power Floor in IDPA, Power Factoring in IPSC/USPSA; defined as muzzle velocity in fps times bullet weight in grains. IPSC divides by 1000 to get a three digit number, IDPA doesn't.
IDPA SSP, ESP, and SSR have a Power Floor of 125,000.
That would call for a 180 grain bullet at a minimum of 695 fps or a 135 at a minimum 926 fps. A lot of shooters say the slow heavy bullet is softer to shoot but neither would be a hard kicker.

IPSC(USPSA) Minor Power Factor is that same 125, Major Power Factor is 165, a 180 grain bullet at minimum 917 fps. You can shoot either, but the scoring is different, the lower powered rounds score lower for anything but a center hit. In Production Division, all calibers are considered as Minor so the new or budget shooter with a 9mm will be on an equal basis.

Strick
August 18, 2009, 06:58 AM
A SP01 just scrapes under the weight limit based on the spec sheet so I would be worried that in a production gun the weight could vary enough to make one overweight. To be legal for SSP it has to be no more than 39oz' and ESP is 41 with an empty magazine.

Flipper 56
August 18, 2009, 09:00 AM
Jim243 asked
Any opions on the CZ 75 SP-01 Tactical??

I have a Tanfoglio Witness Tactical. Fairly similar, amazing grip, built in compensator, it is an "extension of the personna" :cool:

Jim243
August 19, 2009, 01:29 AM
Well I coun't stay away from the gun store today, looked at the Sig, XD, 24/7 OSS, Tanfoglio and half a dozen others, they didn't have a 75 in 40 S&W. This is getting hard, I don't normally have this much trouble deciding.

They had a good number of Sigs that are reconditioned/rebuilt but most were 3.4 inch a bit too short for me. The only one they had that I liked the trigger pull on was a CTS but when I checked it was a single stack. The XD seemed a bit light for my taste and I would be worried about muzzle flip. The EEA was in the style of the Browning High Power (had one years ago) nice looking gun and fuctional but not my style now. The polymer grips on the 24/7 OSS were the same as my PT140 (too small) and would require a Houge slip on just to make it shootable for me (also too long a pull for the trigger but a real short reset for the next round) besides it was an earth tone only all black on they had, had a really crappy trigger on it.

Best triggers were on the XD and 24/7 OSS.

I got a copy of the rules and read the power floor min. I could load to 850 fps with the 155 grain 40s and stay within legal.

Flipper, compensators are a no no in IDPA, but I like that idea.

Salesman said I should shoot a rental and see what I like, well I guess I know where I will be Sunday.

Wish me luck
Jim

jmorris
August 19, 2009, 09:46 AM
I would put your cash in a safe place and shoot the sport for a few months with what you have. If you do you’ll be saving yourself some money.

For example the XD makes a decent production gun but is an ESP pistol in IDPA where it's out classed by many other single action pistols.

Strick
August 19, 2009, 09:48 AM
I would put your cash in a safe place and shoot the sport for a few months with what you have. If you do you’ll be saving yourself some money.


Excellent advice.

jsykes
August 19, 2009, 06:10 PM
I'd look at a 2011 in 9mm something like the STI Eagle is a great option for ESP in IDPA. Very reliable, meets weight, great single action trigger and with the double stack mag, it makes for easy and fast mag changes and no need to use a barney mag like you would with a single stack 1911.

darkgael
August 19, 2009, 08:43 PM
Why not shoot some more matches and watch what others are shooting.
Great advice. Not only what the others are shooting, what the winners are shooting.
Pete

Jim243
August 19, 2009, 08:54 PM
Ok the cash is in the safe and it's locked.

jsykes - I poped up a picture of the STI Eagle - first words out of my mouth was WOW, then I saw the price and I had to put my tounge back in and stop drooling, Way above my pay grade.

Guess I'm stuck with what I have for a while.

mavracer
August 19, 2009, 09:34 PM
I'd look at a 2011 in 9mm something like the STI Eagle is a great option for ESP in IDPA. Very reliable, meets weight, great single action trigger and with the double stack mag, it makes for easy and fast mag changes and no need to use a barney mag like you would with a single stack 1911.
not to derail the thread but IDPA limits ESP (and for that mater SSP)to 10 round mags.A single stack 1911 in 9MM or 38 super can hold 10 rounds in a standard length mag.also it's one of the most dominent gun in the class.

jsykes
August 20, 2009, 12:25 AM
not to derail the thread but IDPA limits ESP (and for that mater SSP)to 10 round mags.A single stack 1911 in 9MM or 38 super can hold 10 rounds in a standard length mag.also it's one of the most dominent gun in the class.

Very true, but you'll still see many running the double stack 1911s because of a few advantages. One is the wider grip opening can allow for faster and more precise mag changes. Additionally, my single stack 9mm 1911s with 10 round mags are quite tight and really need to be slammed home if the slide is not locked back. Having a high cap mag that does not fit so tightly can make for easier mag changes.

Also, you can eliminate the need for a barney mag when you can just load 11 into the first mag you use. Not a performance thing, but can be a real convenience.

Lastly, some just like the feel and changability of the 2011 style guns. You can choose from several different grips from SVI and STI to fit your hand the best.

I have both a single stack 9mm 1911 and a double stack 2011 and prefer the 2011, even for IDPA use, any day of the week.

Jim, sorry to get your hopes up. I had it in my mind that the CZ was a $1000+ gun and when I suggested the Eagle did not think it would be that much more than what you were considering. Sorry about that.

The Eagle is still very worth the money. Save your money, shoot what you have for now and upgrade to the Eagle at some point in time when you can. I love mine for IDPA.

jmorris
August 20, 2009, 09:39 AM
The STI eagle in 9mm is a good pistol for IDPA but the one’s I have/had don’t come close to SVI’s. Another benefit is that you can change out the breech face to other calibers (one pistol for CDP and ESP (or even Limited)).

jsykes
August 20, 2009, 02:51 PM
Agree with that. I have an SVI that I use for USPSA, but did not want to spend $3k on my IDPA gun so I went with an Eagle since my SVI is a long dust cover and bull barrel, not legal for IDPA.

The fit and finish is noticeably better on the SVI, but its also significantly more expensive than the STI. And if the STI is out of Jim's price range, the SV most certainly is.

kidcoltoutlaw
August 20, 2009, 08:07 PM
I do good with the XD 40 and the XDm 40. I use the XDm in IPSC. but the 9mm would be better if you do not hand load. Put a PRP trigger job in it and you will love it. So easy you can do it yourself,

Thanks,Keith

Jim243
August 21, 2009, 11:17 AM
Those are some fine looking guns (STI & SV) I need to win the lottery.

Thanks Keith that might be the best choice, find the one I like and can afford and redo the trigger.

Thanks all this has been a great help.

Jim

kidcoltoutlaw
August 21, 2009, 11:32 AM
I just order one from www.cdnnsports.com it was 426.00 plus 19.95 for shipping. If you go with the PRP trigger put the safety lever in from the right side of the frame it is easier that way. They sell the video on how to do the trigger job but you can find everything you need to know at www.xdtalk.com

Thanks,Keith

sidaemon
August 21, 2009, 11:24 PM
I'll weigh in here with some solid points. Firstly the weight limit for ESP is 43 oz not 41... Second I would not worry about the difference shooting ESP or SSP, and here's why. In the last big shoot I participated in I came in third in my class and division in ESP. I was shooting an SSP pistol because I didn't have an SSP classification, the same score would have good for only fifth in SSP...

Shoot what you're comfortable with. I use a 9mm, because in the long run its much cheaper to reload for and that translates into the 9mm's biggest advantage, more practice shooting!!!

If you do decide on an XD or XDm and are looking to get the trigger worked on, I would recommend Scott Springer. I've seen his work (and more importantly felt it) and its worth every penny he charges.

Just my $.02

Thanks zac.

kidcoltoutlaw
August 22, 2009, 01:05 PM
But I paid 230.00 just for the shipping on 2 guns I sent him. You can go with the PRP trigger for 87.00 plus 25.00 for the DVD and come out better. You can even find the info on how to do it at www.xdtalk.com and save the 25 on the DVD. You will need to know how to take the XD down but it is easy. Or you can get the Springer parts and do it yourself even if you screw it up it will be way better than the factory trigger,

Thanks,Keith

Jim243
August 23, 2009, 02:38 PM
One more question if I can pick your brains. I was thinking of getting a 5 inch barrel, but will that disqualify me in any way for ESP or SSP?

Thanks
Jim

kidcoltoutlaw
August 23, 2009, 03:44 PM
Not unless it will not fit in the box. ISPC 225mm X 150mm or 8.75 X 6 for IDPA
should be OK anybody know different. It has to be factory that way so in the XD it would be the Tactical model,

Thanks,Keith

Strick
August 24, 2009, 01:37 PM
Yeah as long as it is the factory length a 5" is fine. G34's and M&P pro's are a very popular example of this.

Jim243
August 25, 2009, 09:10 PM
Thanks again

Jim

Jim243
October 12, 2009, 09:39 PM
It's been two months since I started this post and I would like to thank all that have helped. I have finally found a pistol that meets all the requirements, single/double action, that holds at least 11 rounds in the magazine, has a good trigger, will fit in the box, has a large pistol grip, has a hammer and a manual safety and can be fired cocked and locked (can be used for ssp or esp) and will not make me sleep on the couch (LOL). The final winner is a FNP-40.

Again thanks

Jim