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View Full Version : NY shop owners defense of his employees


derilect
August 15, 2009, 09:02 PM
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2009/08/13/2009-08-13_harlem_biz_owner.html

This man seems as though he may be treated fairly. If this has already made an appearance I apologize. I'm sure we all like to see someone defending themselves.

Trooper Tyree
August 15, 2009, 09:34 PM
All four robbers sustained hits yet he only fired three rounds according to the article. I wonder what load he was using?

Granted it was a shotgun at 20-30 feet, but it sounds like he scored a good shot to hit ration. Usually in these situations people end up hitting everything except the perps.

KyJim
August 15, 2009, 09:38 PM
They got what they deserved but, I'm a bit worried about this:

"As the bandits bolted from the store, Augusto squeezed off three blasts from the pistol-grip shotgun from 20 to 30 feet away from the pistol-whipped employee. . . . Two of the robbers were struck in the back."

If that were here in Kentucky, I wouldn't be too concerned but this happened in New York City.

derilect
August 15, 2009, 09:48 PM
That is the source of my concern as well. So far, no talk of charges or wrong doing. Maybe he gets raked over the coals in civil court. I don't know NYC's laws.

Al Norris
August 15, 2009, 10:17 PM
Unless there's a legal or civil rights issue (which, so far, there's none), shootings don't belong in L&CR. Moving to T&T

derilect
August 15, 2009, 10:32 PM
Thanks, I was unsure were that belonged.

jakeg823
August 15, 2009, 11:42 PM
i heard yesterday that "legal experts" didnt expect any charges to be filed...but if they were they were confident it wouldnt be anything more than a slap on the wrist. 20-30 feet + pg shotgun(assuming its pg only, i never heard otherwise)+3 shots/4 hits=one BA old man!

MLeake
August 15, 2009, 11:57 PM
... by his own account, is more of a heart-broken old man.

While I think it's reasonable to praise his successful handling of the problem, I think it might be disrespectful to create an ebullient tone in discussing the incident, since he is very unhappy that he felt he had no choice but to fire.

I think his decision to fire was absolutely correct, but I don't envy him the many nights of lost sleep that he is probably going to have.

Am I happy that the store owner and his employees survived the encounter? Yes. Am I happy that two people died? No. I'd have been happier if those two people, or really those four people, had not created that situation.

For that matter, I'd be happier if I didn't feel that there is still a need to carry. Unfortunately, there is, and this case is an example of why that need exists.

But it's not a cause for celebration.

JohnKSa
August 16, 2009, 12:14 AM
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2009/08/14/2009-08-14_harlem_business_owner_charles_gus_augusto_opens_shop_day_after_fatally_shooting_.htmlIf you just GOTTA talk to the press, these are good things to say...

""I would have been happy if they'd all run out the door," he said. "I'm sick to my stomach over it."

Augusto, 72, insisted he told the gunman who'd just pistol-whipped his clerk to clear out, but the bandit just wouldn't listen.

"I'm sad I couldn't talk him out of it," he said. "I'm sad there's mothers and fathers with no sons today."

jakeg823
August 16, 2009, 12:31 AM
didnt mean any disrespect for what happened...i just meant he is an elderly man who is capable of sticking up for himself, and he did so very efficiently, and he should be praised for doing so, especially for protecting the lives of his employees, and possibly others if the robbers had gotten away.

jgcoastie
August 16, 2009, 01:57 AM
A registered Republican, he said he learned how to handle a gun while serving in the Coast Guard. (emphasis added by me)

+1 for us Coasties... ;)

MLeake
August 16, 2009, 08:49 AM
You didn't really come across that way, but I had a bad feeling that the BA old man comment would get some high-five replies from some folks, and I wanted to pre-empt those.

Didn't intend it as a personal criticism.

Cheers,

M

derilect
August 16, 2009, 09:24 AM
I'll tell you a reason to be jubilant, the statistics say, he just made his community safer and this country safer. Most scumbags want to victimize you without dying themselves. Incidents like these do cause them to think twice.

MLeake
August 16, 2009, 09:36 AM
... and successful SD against criminals is also good.

But jubilant and celebratory are bad postures to take; not only do they tend to inflame antis, especially the swing types that we could potentially otherwise win over - but they also create an internet record for individuals of them taking a lighthearted view of shooting others. This would not be optimal for a DA to dig up during any future SD defense by such posters.

IE you can hurt gun owners at large, or yourself specifically, by making yahoo comments. Exercise caution.

derilect
August 16, 2009, 11:48 AM
The comments on the nytimes page shows many New Yorkers relieved and emboldened by a local standing up for his right to exist in that environment. They are sick of Bloomberg, and I'm happy for them that they have someone to rally around.

Antis walk around in a constant state of irritation that we enjoy any freedoms at all. I'll lose no sleep over their discomfort.

MLeake
August 16, 2009, 01:21 PM
But you discount the middle-grounders at your own peril. Antagonizing swing voters is stupid. Just ask the 2000 Democrats or the 2006 Republicans. (Sorry, politics - but non-partisan, only observational) Both those election cycles were dominated by the movement of center voters to one side or the other, in response to the respective party cozying up to much to its extreme base.

In other words, a lot of undecided soccer moms may go the other way, if you come across as bloodthirsty or gloating. That could tip scales that we don't want tipped.

You also choose to disregard warnings about possible future use of your own posts against you in criminal or civil cases at your own risk.

derilect
August 16, 2009, 01:48 PM
Fair enough. Do you think any of the posts on TFL came off as bloodthirsty or is the sort of thing that would be damaging in court.

I say only on TFL because its likely someone om ny times comments went to far( I didn't read all 35 pages) as the were pretty emotional it being obvious so many were local.

MLeake
August 16, 2009, 02:00 PM
But if you look at a lot of threads that moderators have closed, you'll see the types of posts I mean.