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microtech
August 14, 2009, 11:20 PM
i live in my single bedroom apartment with my girlfriend in an ok, not the best kinda area. At 630 in the morning i was rudely awaken by a very loud aggressive pounding on the door. I immediately ive got an adrenalin rush. I'm thinking who it could be at this time. There is no one that i know who would be banging on the door that early at my apartment. I am paused for a second sitting at the edge of my bed, the pounding happens again but louder. I grab for my 9mm usp compact and cock it. I quietly walk to the door and check the peep hole. No one is there. Then the pounding happens again the second after i check. I look again, still no one there. I go back to the bedroom keeping my gun pointed at the front door. I call 911 and tell them of the situation quietly. after taking my info the emergency operator tells me that it should be the police at the door. I tell her that no one identified themselves and i couldnt see anyone. She said it was the police and to go open the door. I put my gun down and opened the door and it was two police officers. They said they had gotten a 911 call and hangup from my house. I explained that we didnt call them and that we didn't even have a landline that could even lead them to our house. They left. In this situation i feel that the police should have identified themselves. If they had decided to break down the door they could have possibly been shot by me. I would like to think that i could react quickly enough to notice the uniform and hold my fire, but in the heat of the moment you never know what might happen. I am sharing this story because i would like to get some opinions from some of the experienced people who use this sight.

thanks

hogdogs
August 14, 2009, 11:36 PM
Yeah, I would expect the cops to knock and announce.

I had a situation involving my wife making a 911 call about my young daughter and her ruptured tonsil stitches. Wife decided it was faster to have her daddy haul to the ER. I was never fully awakened during the whole bleeding daughter ordeal as wifey was on top of it too fast. Next thing I knew I had a yard full of red and blue lights and a pounding on my door. I wasn't holding a weapon and answered my door in my underwear. First thing I see is a figure in dark clothing in the bed of my truck. I thought it was a perp hiding from the cops so I lunged... :D Turned out it was the knocking cop who heard several large dog units barking as I flipped the dead bolt, chain and door lock.:o I don't know who was more upset after the fact... me for realizing I coulda been shot or him for being charged by the sleepy eyed underwear clad hogdogs:eek:
Brent

besafe2
August 15, 2009, 12:14 AM
I can not iminage why the police didn't identify them selves. Thank goodness this didn;t turn out bad. You did the right thing calling 911.

DAVID NANCARROW
August 15, 2009, 12:19 AM
Microtech, if you have this happen again, where your phone "calls 911" and then hangs up, contact the telephone company and have them check the wiring. It sounds as if you might be getting what we call in the business "crosstalk". Thats where the line voltage jumps from one pair to another. Apartments are particularly vulnerable in this regard because of the way they are wired.

TurkeyHunter4ever
August 15, 2009, 12:41 AM
This spooks me. And, I have thought of this many times before -

what happens when bad guys start identifying themselves as cops? I mean, there are badges available online and plenty "101" courses on the boob tube as to how an officer would act. So...who is gonna draw down on someone coming through the front door yelling "POLICE!"?

Trashcan-man
August 15, 2009, 01:00 AM
Police do not identify themselves and don't allow people inside to see them for a reason. Remember that with a 911 hang-up there could be any number of situations going on. Anything from kids playing on the phone to a hostage situation. If you think about it that way then you probably would stand in front of the door and say "POLICE" either if you thought there was a possibility that someone could shoot you through the door. Generally speaking the police are not just going to kick your door in unless a)they have a "no knock" search warrant or b)they think that the resident inside is having a serious problem that needs police attention immediately. If it's the former then you are outta luck and should prepare for a flash-bang and lots of guys dressed in black with black rifles shouting at you, if it's the latter then you should not be shooting the police officer's coming to help you.:D

There is a second option as to what happened. Google SWATting, basically a computer savvy individual uses a VOIP service such as vonage to make a fake 911 call using your name and address. There have been some cases where there was a 911 call with a drug related murder, suspect still on scene, guns, drugs blah blah blah....the PD sends the swat team and finds Mom, Dad and the kids sleeping soundly...well actually Dad was checking the noises that mom heard and was armed with a baseball bat.
IMO you did the right thing, didn't need to question the 911 operator...she's not gonna let you open that door unless she's sure who's there, but when in doubt of a police officer's credentials there is no problem with calling to check...unless there are 10 such officers with patrol cars and those officers are trying to put handcuffs on you, then they may take it as resisting.

microtech
August 15, 2009, 02:36 AM
i called the dispatch and asked what number they got the 911 call from and they gave me a number. I found out which provider serviced that number then i called them. Turns out, the person who lived in my apartment before me had that number. When the previous owner of my place moved out the number was closed. The number was then re-taken by a new resident in the town in a different neighborhood. When she signed up and got the number the phone company accidently left the old account info and address on the account. I forgot to mention, i called the number that called 911. A lady picked up and i explained the situation. She said she had called 911 to make sure it would work then she hung up. not too bright of a lady. So basically the situation is as follows: old lady called 911, hung up, the police pulled up the address and got my address by mistake because the phone company did not update the address and account info when the new person got this number.

chris in va
August 15, 2009, 08:32 AM
Just to make a finer point, probably don't want to cock your pistol in a SD situation. Too easy to accidentally set it off under stress.

orionengnr
August 15, 2009, 09:21 AM
Thank you for coming back and telling the "why" and how it happened.
She said she had called 911 to make sure it would work then she hung up. not too bright of a lady.
Incredible. :rolleyes:

Poseidon28
August 15, 2009, 09:34 AM
...

Skans
August 15, 2009, 09:54 AM
Just to make a finer point, probably don't want to cock your pistol in a SD situation.

Just currious, at what point would you advise him to cock his pistol?:confused:

Since I use my Glock 17 for home defense and generally do not keep one loaded in the chamber, on those few occassions I have to check out a noise or problem, the first thing I do is chamber a round.

Lee Lapin
August 15, 2009, 03:16 PM
I thought there might be another explanation...

lpl
===========
http://www.fbi.gov/page2/feb08/swatting020408.html

DON'T MAKE THE CALL
The New Phenomenon of 'Swatting'
02/04/08

Remember the “phone phreakers?” The term hit our national consciousness in the 1970s, when a magazine reported on a small group of techie troublemakers who were hacking into phone companies’ computers and making free long-distance calls.

Today, there’s a new, much more serious twist on this old crime. It’s called “swatting,” and it involves calling 9-1-1 and faking an emergency that draws a response from law enforcement—usually a SWAT team.

Needless to say, these calls are dangerous to first responders and to the victims. The callers often tell tales of hostages about to be executed or bombs about to go off. The community is placed in danger as responders rush to the scene, taking them away from real emergencies. And the officers are placed in danger as unsuspecting residents may try to defend themselves.

Last year, for example, a 19-year-old Washington state man was charged by California authorities after pretending to be calling from the home of a married California couple, saying he had just shot and murdered someone. A local SWAT team arrived on the scene, and the husband, who had been asleep in his home with his wife and two young children, heard something and went outside to investigate—after first stopping in the kitchen to pick up a knife. What he found was a group of SWAT assault rifles aimed directly at him. Fortunately, the situation didn’t escalate, and no one was injured.

The schemes can also be fairly sophisticated. Consider the following case investigated by our Dallas office recently in concert with a range of partners:

Five swatters in several states targeted people who were using online telephone party chat lines (or their family or friends).
The swatters found personal details on the victims by accessing telecommunication company information stored on protected computers.

Then, by manipulating computer and phone equipment, they called 9-1-1 operators around the country. By using “spoofing technology,” the swatters even made it look like the calls were actually coming from the victims!

Between 2002 and 2006, the five swatters called 9-1-1 lines in more than 60 cities nationwide, impacting more than 100 victims, causing a disruption of services for telecommunications providers and emergency responders, and resulting in up to $250,000 in losses.

“Swats” that the group committed included using bomb threats at sporting events, causing the events to be delayed; claiming that hotel visitors were armed and dangerous, causing an evacuation of the entire hotel; and making threats against public parks and officials.

Case work. The swatters were tracked down through the cooperative efforts of local, state, and federal agencies and the assistance of telecommunications providers and first responders. In all, the case involved more than 40 state and local jurisdictions in about a dozen states. All five subjects have pled guilty to various charges and are scheduled to be sentenced in 2008.

Why did they do it? Said Kevin Kolbye, Assistant Special Agent in Charge of our Dallas office: "Individuals did it for the bragging rights and ego, versus any monetary gain." Basically, they did it because they could.

Law enforcement agencies at all levels are currently working with telecommunications providers around the country to help them address swatting activity.

You can help, too—if you believe you’ve been a victim of a “swat” please contact your local FBI office.

N.H. Yankee
August 16, 2009, 08:55 AM
Definately should have ID themselves, also in our area if 911 gets a hangup they are supposed to call the number back to get a grip on whats going down. I accidently dialed 911 when calling my son in Germany a few years ago I needed to dial 011####### and hit the 9 instead of 0. Well the chief of police ( 2 man dept like andy taylor and Barney Fife ) called and I told him what happened and he said OK. Well 15 minutes later I get a knock at the door its the chief.

Knowing I own quite a few guns and had an FFL at the time he decided he better make sure I wasn't in trouble and being forced to say what I did. I told him he could take a tour inside if he wished, and he did. Ended up he was just starting supper when the call came in, I felt really bad about it, but praise him for his dedication. You did everything right in your situation.

pmeisel
August 16, 2009, 10:08 AM
Yankee, you live in a good place with good people.

pax
August 16, 2009, 10:14 AM
Deleted some posts.

If you want to bash all cops, go find another forum. TFL isn't the place for it.

When you see a post outside our forum rules, please hit the "report this post" button.

Thanks,

pax

sakeneko
August 16, 2009, 10:56 AM
My grandfather lived in New Hampshire after his retirement and I visited him there a couple of times in the 1970s. I can easily imagine the police chief in his little town both knowing the people in town and taking 911 seriously enough to interrupt his dinner to make sure everything is okay. Ditto in a lot of other small towns in other parts of the country.

I've long since concluded that having this kind of relationship between the police and the citizens takes some effort on both sides. It doesn't happen in a vacuum. I'm not sure it *can* happen in a city at all; there are just too many people. It's a shame.

MLeake
August 16, 2009, 11:06 AM
... that still use foot patrols. While the size of the city is a factor, I think the radio car is an equally big factor.

Kind of like the days when the mailman walked the route; as a kid, I knew the two carriers who alternated in my neighborhood. I also knew the police, but we only had 3; very small city.

One of our small town cops did have to take down a shotgun-armed bank robber one time, so it wasn't quite Mayberry, but generally it was pretty close - the Maine version of Mayberry, anyway.

Cheers,

M

onthejon55
August 16, 2009, 11:12 AM
Only suggestion i could make would be yelling through the door asking who ever was knocking to identify themselves but even then you're wasting time that could be spend getting back to your room... thats a tough situation to handle glad i worked out for the best.

markj
August 18, 2009, 03:58 PM
Years ago kids used to knock and run, if you were lucky there would not be a bag on fire filled with well you get the idea.....


Floodlites are in order there and a outside dog would help. Not everyone can do so tho.

FireForged
September 1, 2009, 09:28 PM
This is a little off topic but the story remined me of my situation. Once upon a time, I was in my State of out of town for busniness. I had taken my carry gun with me and had it in my overnight bad which was beside my bed and unzipped. In the middle of the night, I was awakened by a shout and a very loud pounding on my door. When I woke I felt as if I was at home and didnt really think about it being a hotel. I just responded to the situation by leaping from bed and quickly arming my self. I found myself standing with my pistol in hand (in a ready stance with pistol pointed toward the floor) and facing the door. I realized that a man was calling someones name and banging on the door. Not trying to break in, just banging. I looked out the peep and saw the room door open behind him. It was several 25-30 year old guys having a party. The guy just picked the wrong room.

The odd thing was that when I was going back to bed, I couldnt find my holster. I looked and looked and couldnt find it anywhere. I finally just wrapped my pistol in a t-shirt and placed it back into my overnight bag. The next morning I continued to look for the holster. I finally found it on the other side of the room behind a chair. I must have ripped the pistol from it and litterally flung the holster against the far wall. Its just odd what that kind of rush can do.

Casimer
September 1, 2009, 10:08 PM
Spoofing an originating phone number isn't actually very difficult any longer. I won't go into the details, but there are third parties that provide leasable access to telephony systems for the purpose of running software applications that perform automated call handling. This aspect of their services is completely legitimate. But their programming interfaces often allow you to assign an originating phone number. And some of these parties don't bother to validate whether you actually own the number that you assign. This is how at least one of the Swatting incidents that I'm aware of was performed.

javabum
September 1, 2009, 10:18 PM
some one knocks on my door and dose not identify them selves im not opening the door.if for some reason they decide to come in on a locked door they will do so with a gun pointed at them.....don't care who it is.hell even perps get the knock and yell before the door comes in....i deserve the same and no less....but the gun will still be present,low ready,

mskdgunman
September 1, 2009, 10:49 PM
SOP with our agency (and most that I know of) is for the Comm center to attempt to call back while the units are in route. If they haven't, once the officers arrive, they will probably ask for this to be done just in case the comm center forgot. Next step is to listen at the windows and doors and look/listen for anything that doesn't seen right. After this, then I'd knock on the door. I may not identify myself immediately but will as soon as someone inside acknowledges the knocking or I hear someone moving around.

I've had people refuse to open the door and have generally had the comm center call them and assure then that it IS the police at the door and to open it immediately.

911 hang up calls are more dangerous then you would think. In the days of pay phones, I was always taught to be extra cautious as a 911 call is a great way to lure someone in for an ambush. We won't even talk about cell phones which are next to useless for calling 911 (at least in FL) as there is no real way to track them in real time and know where the caller is. The cell phone companies are not all that cooperative and by the time a cell phone company is convinced to provide us with the information, it'll all be long over. If you have to call 911 on a cell phone, you had best know your location if you want the calvary to arrive

Trashcan-man
September 2, 2009, 01:06 AM
I've never had an officer get ambushed on a 911 hang up, but I have had them turn into shootings, stabbings, domestics, etc etc...I even had one turn out to be a barricaded subject. I was trained to treat them as a murder with the suspect on scene until I am told otherwise.
And yes cell phone companies are, for the most part, a GIANT pain in the butt. Most of them require you to fax a form to them explaining the request, they will then call you when it gets approved and will give you the owner info...the ones that can do GPS tracking take a LONG TIME...atleast 30 mins and it's not all that accurate...most of the time.

Bond007
September 2, 2009, 01:56 PM
Wow, microtech, I had the exact same thing happen to me a few years ago.

I was living alone when there was a loud pounding on my door in the middle of the night. I looked at the clock and thought, "What is FedEx doing delivering at 2:30am?!?" Upset at the deliveryman I rolled over. It wasn't until I heard two men talking to each other outside my open first floor bedroom window that it dawned on me that it wasn't FedEx.

Luckily, they asked if there was anyone inside, I asked who it was and they identified themselves as police. I called the local PD and confirmed they were dispatched before answering the door.

The problem ended up being the same, that they received a call traced back to my apartment, although I had never activated the land line there.

It happened a second time two nights later before I called AT&T and had them disconnect the phone line altogether.

The most upsetting part to me was that the police were upset at me for twice having them brought out in the middle of the night and weren't at all interested in speaking with the AT&T rep to determine which address actually called 911 twice in the early morning hours.

Since then I've made sure that my wife and I have local PD entered into our cell phones. Way more responsive than 911 in my experience.

Trashcan-man
September 2, 2009, 02:55 PM
^^ in most states 911 and the local non emergency number go to the same place, same operators. Cell phones are actually not as good as a landline 911 call. aif you have a true emergency and call from a landline atleast we get your address, name and phone number, we don't even get an accurate location from cell phones most of the time.

serf 'rett
September 3, 2009, 09:22 AM
In this situation I wouldn’t want to be on either side of the door. A real danger exists for lethal mistakes in this “false” 911 call scenario. It seems that a call back to the originating number should almost be mandatory.