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treefarmernc
August 9, 2009, 12:06 PM
I am making this post to clear up some misconceptions about hunting deer with the 22-250 and other similar cartridges. First of all shot placement. I have read in other posts here that shot placement is more important with the 22-250 than compared to other calibers (“has to be in the spine or head shot”). Shot placement for the 22-250 is the same as would be for any other deer hunting caliber. A gut shot is a gut shot weather it is 30-06 or -250. A 22-250 shot to the shoulder region will have the same effect as other calibers.

I keep getting the insinuation that people are thinking of the22-250 as if it is a .22LR rather than as the high powered cartridge that it is, more than capable of killing 140-220lb (the weight range around here) whitetails at distances of up to at least 300 yards.

Another common comment is that if you use a 22-250 you should expect to do a lot of tracking. I have not seen any difference in the amount of tracking with those that use 22-250 or 220 swift as those that use larger calibers. Any deer that I made a decent shot on with my 22-250 did not get much further than 50 yards, most dropping where they stood or close to it. I did have one that was never found due to a gut shot that was a result of me making a hasty shot:mad:.

And of coarse I have missed, witch brings me to the only disadvantage of deer hunting with the 22-250. It does take less to deflect the bullet, such as twigs and stout weeds accounting for one of my misses ( I believe). I am a little bias being that my 22-250 is my favorite, but the statements I have made here is due to me having more experience with the use of this caliber for deer than most other people. These experiences come not from just me but a whole county of deer hunters spanning 2-3 decades.

The county I grew up in (here in NC) had a very unusual law stating that no caliber larger than .22 could be used for hunting:eek:. This meant the 22-250, 220 swift and .223 was our only options. This law stood until somewhere around 1998-2000 when it was finally changed allowing larger calibers. Most of my hunting took place in this county but I did hunt in other counties, with other hunting clubs, and with larger caliber guns witch counts for what I believe to be a rounded view.

edit:
I would like to add that I suggest that you use at least a 55gr bullet choice or higher. My 22-250 will throw up to a 70 gr accurately. I am getting about 2.5-3" groupings at 200yrds with my Hornady 60gr soft points of witch I mention a few post down. I use an unaltered Remington 700 rifle.

DaveInPA
August 9, 2009, 12:17 PM
I wouldn't do it, but if you have luck with it, then more power to you.

olyinaz
August 9, 2009, 12:31 PM
>>>the high powered cartridge that it is, more than capable of killing 140-220lb (the weight range around here) whitetails at distances of up to at least 300 yards<<<

Been one heckuva lot of mammals in the 140-220lb range killed by 5.56! And .22-250 packs quite a bit more punch than good ol' .223 so yes, I don't doubt one bit that it's a perfectly capable white tail deer round.

Would it be my first choice up North? No, but doesn't mean it wont work just fine and frankly here in Tucson with our white tail deer running more like 90-110lbs I'd use my .223 without hesitation were I a deer hunter any longer.

Just curious, what bullet/load or ammo do you generally use for deer in the .22-250?

Regards,
Oly

DiscoRacing
August 9, 2009, 12:33 PM
i normally use .308 or .06 for my whitetails... have been thinking of using my ruger .223 for the first of my whiteys this year.... would like to use my pet load so far.... 26grains of ram-tac,,, 69 gr hpbt hornady.

44 AMP
August 9, 2009, 01:00 PM
You are probably going to get some rather heated replies on this one!

It is not "good" for deer hunting. It is adequate, with the right bullet. It is NOT legal for deer hunting in about 80% of the US! Think about that for a moment.

I love the .22-250, its my favorite varmint round. Using a suitable bullet (not a varmint bullet) I could cleanly, humanely take deer, as you have done. But it isn't a good choice, when better (bigger) rounds are legally available, and it isn't a good choice for the less than dedicated hunter/shooter.

The reason most states ban the use of the .22 centerfires for deer is numbers. Numbers of "hunters" that don't take the time and effort to use the correct "deer class" bullet, or to take shots that are simply beyond the capabilities of the round. Result, large numbers of crippled, wounded (and usually lost) deer. It has more to do with the way people use them, than in any lack of capability in the cartridge itself.

I've got a Winchester M70 varmint in .22-250, and with me behind the stock, using ammo suitable, I can take any game animal within 300 yds, including really big deer, even elk, with confidence, because I know my abilities, and my rifle's. But I can't do that legally! And thats why the .22-250 isn't a good choice for deer, most places.

For big game, all .22CF are "experts" guns. Capable of doing the job if expertly used. And capable of failing when not.

Flatbush Harry
August 9, 2009, 01:21 PM
You are probably going to get some rather heated replies on this one!

It is not "good" for deer hunting. It is adequate, with the right bullet. It is NOT legal for deer hunting in about 80% of the US! Think about that for a moment.

I love the .22-250, its my favorite varmint round. Using a suitable bullet (not a varmint bullet) I could cleanly, humanely take deer, as you have done. But it isn't a good choice, when better (bigger) rounds are legally available, and it isn't a good choice for the less than dedicated hunter/shooter.

The reason most states ban the use of the .22 centerfires for deer is numbers. Numbers of "hunters" that don't take the time and effort to use the correct "deer class" bullet, or to take shots that are simply beyond the capabilities of the round. Result, large numbers of crippled, wounded (and usually lost) deer. It has more to do with the way people use them, than in any lack of capability in the cartridge itself.

I've got a Winchester M70 varmint in .22-250, and with me behind the stock, using ammo suitable, I can take any game animal within 300 yds, including really big deer, even elk, with confidence, because I know my abilities, and my rifle's. But I can't do that legally! And thats why the .22-250 isn't a good choice for deer, most places.

For big game, all .22CF are "experts" guns. Capable of doing the job if expertly used. And capable of failing when not.
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.



Excellent post, AMP.

FH

treefarmernc
August 9, 2009, 01:23 PM
I started out using standard 55 gr Remington High Veloc. soft points with satisfactory results. I now have gotten into reloading and use 60gr Hornady soft points with 35gr of IMR 4064. I find that this combination will throw the 60 gr the same as the store bought 55gr at 150-200 yards allowing me to switch between the two if need be.

V.Hunter
August 9, 2009, 02:58 PM
I wouldn't do it, but if you have luck with it, then more power to you.

Nice post, no bashing and level headed.

i normally use .308 or .06 for my whitetails... have been thinking of using my ruger .223 for the first of my whiteys this year.... would like to use my pet load so far.... 26grains of ram-tac,,, 69 gr hpbt hornady.

Don’t take this the wrong way but this is why most people should not use a 22 centerfire, they select the wrong bullet!

You can’t use a varmint/target bullet and expect it to perform on larger game, reliably anyway.

I have used a 22-250 for years but have always used Speer’s 70gr semi-spitzer. I take any shot with that cartridge/bullet combination as I would any other. I have dropped deer from 10 - 240+ yards with the 22-250 and the Speer 70 grainer.

Use a 22 centerfire if you want but please always use the correct bullet.

44AMP's post is spot on. We can use it in my state and I happen to have a favorite walking varminter in 22-250 that is a dream to shoot and carry so I often carry it while hunting the fringe of field and wood.

ken22250
August 9, 2009, 03:08 PM
ive never killed a deer with my .22-250, but i have killed a number of them with the .222rem and a 50 gr soft point, the same load i used on groundhog, i kept shots under 100 yards, and shot them in he neck or head just to be safe, with the modern bullets like the 60fr partition and 75gr sirocco, i would have no problem using a .22-250 with normal bullet placement.
ken

Old Grump
August 9, 2009, 03:43 PM
Love the caliber but I leave deer hunting for deer bullets and varmint hunting for varmint bullets, the 22-250 is a great varmint gun. It isn't prohibited in Wisconsin but a 6MM or 25 caliber and above make more sense for the average shooter who only shoots a couple of times a year if that much.

sc928porsche
August 9, 2009, 07:07 PM
Definately not my 1st, 2nd, or even 3rd choice for hunting deer. There are way too many cartridges better suited to the task.

hoytinak
August 9, 2009, 07:14 PM
I've never owned a .22-250 but if I did, I wouldn't be scared to use it on the whitetails around here. I've use a .223 for many years and it's always worked great for me. The only reason I won't be using the .223 this year is that I finally got my father's old .30-30 that I'll be using.

YARDDOG(1)
August 9, 2009, 07:32 PM
.243 is the smallest I've used on whitetail ,but daddy took manny a deer with a 22-250 ;)

LateNightFlight
August 9, 2009, 07:41 PM
Past success with a 22-250 does not guarantee future success. Forward looking statements about what has worked in the past are certain to fail in the future. Statistical reversion to the mean is a natural law. I’m thinking, 'Dude, use a bigger gun.' :D

Last year, I shot a doe with a 235 grain, 50 cal slug, while black powder hunting. She ran, turned uphill and jumped a five foot fence. I was cussing at myself, "How could I blow that shot?" But, about 15 yards beyond the fence (at least 70 yards in aggregate travel) she abruptly fell dead.

I went from thinking I had missed, or foul hit at best, to thinking I had made a weak lung hit - a distal base of a lung lobe, perhaps. But when I field dressed the deer, I discovered I had made a through-and-through hit on the center of the heart. What more could anybody ask for? So why didn't she drop right there?

I'm not saying 50 cal is not enough gun, obviously. What I am saying is that experiences like this have taught me that it is difficult to be over-gunned, and much easier to be under-gunned. While this deer wasn't typical of a deer shot through the heart, how far could this deer have gone with a .22 cal wound? (I understand the improved factors with a 22-250’s expansion and the benefits of velocity, but work with me here.)

There's a statistical axiom in medicine that says 50% of the people who fall from a height of 25' onto a hard surface will die. Adjust the height up or down and the percentages scale accordingly. It is the same for factors determining the suitability of hunting rounds. Excusing exceptions and considering the averages, a bigger round is better.

Personally, I'll stick with bigger stuff for game, because, sometimes, even what seems like it should be substantial over-kill will disappoint. Eventually, what you witness will defeat everything you thought you already knew about the topic. An animal that turns into a marathon runner teaches you nothing if you leave thinking you missed it. The only thing that’s worse is knowing you hit it, but being unable to find it. Game officials understand this because of the unclaimed deer they find lying in the woods - deer that have traveled miles - with a fairly placed hit but not enough bullet. That’s the reason some States exclude the CF .22s for deer size game.

ken22250
August 9, 2009, 07:47 PM
it is verry eaisy to be overgunned. i have killed pa whitetails with the .375H&H, that is overgunned, am i wrong?
ken

olyinaz
August 9, 2009, 07:47 PM
>>> Swift 75gr Scirocco <<<

Now yer talkin'!

Oly

LateNightFlight
August 9, 2009, 07:59 PM
it is verry eaisy to be overgunned. i have killed pa whitetails with the .375H&H, that is overgunned

I'd have to ask if it ran far. If that was the only concern... nope, not over-gunned. :p

hoytinak
August 9, 2009, 07:59 PM
I think it all depends on your area of the world. You know the size of the animals you're hunting and hopefully you know how to properly use the equipment you're using, which includes it's limitations.

ken22250
August 9, 2009, 08:05 PM
no, it didnt move, it was nocked out of it tracks, but it didnt move under its own power. i just wanted to give it a try.
ken

Jmackk
August 9, 2009, 10:11 PM
Its not just the "power" of the round, its also about bullet weight and weight ratention(sp?) on impact. You also owe it to the animal to make a quick clean kill so why not use a claiber that leave nothing to speculation.

emcon5
August 9, 2009, 10:32 PM
Sierra makes a .224 65 gr. Spitzer Boat Tail Game King, I expect you could get 3400 FPS from a 22-250. That has 1085 ft-lbs at 200 yards, and 864 at 300.

It wouldn't be my first choice, but if that was all I had I wouldn't be afraid to use that on a deer, especially CA's scrawny coastal Blacktails.

handlerer
August 9, 2009, 11:32 PM
Sure you can shoot a deer with a 223 cal bullet and if everything goes right it will die. Ok, it will reliably kill a Labrador sized white tail. They are very accurate weapons, and with the right bullet it is adequate for small deer, but it doesn't really have tremendous energy, leaves a very small wound channel, which means that this deer will bleed slowly and leave a poor trail to track if not an instant kill. I have no problem with it within its limitations. I believe that all hunters should have ethics concerning their quarry. If you have the right shot, the right shooting experience, the right bullet, the right conditions , you see what I'm getting at here, too many ifs. I'm not saying don't, but I am saying you better get it right everytime or else you're not an ethical hunter, I have a 223 rifle, but here in Montana, year before last, while there are no restrictions on rifle caliber, there were 6 hunters attacked by Grizzly bears that beat them to their kill, if you were carrying a 22-250 you would be bearfood. I hunt mule deer with a 300WBY and with the right bullet it will not blow them half. I'm not sure that I could ethically hunt deer with a 22.

Nnobby45
August 9, 2009, 11:55 PM
A 22-250 shot to the shoulder region will have the same effect as other calibers.....

What bullet have you put thru the shoulder bones of a deer that penetrated the same as other calibers and didn't blow up?

treefarmernc
August 10, 2009, 12:27 AM
It is not "good" for deer hunting. It is adequate, with the right bullet. It is NOT legal for deer hunting in about 80% of the US! Think about that for a moment.
It is good for whitetail with the right size bullet is a better way to put it. So far as the supposed 80% and what it means to my thread... NOTHING. I talking about the ability of the 22-250 to handle deer effectively, witch I have proven on a fairly large scale.

The reason most states ban the use of the .22 centerfires for deer is numbers. Numbers of "hunters" that don't take the time and effort to use the correct "deer class" bullet, or to take shots that are simply beyond the capabilities of the round. Result, large numbers of crippled, wounded (and usually lost) deer. It has more to do with the way people use them, than in any lack of capability in the cartridge itself.
I would suggest that you take the .22 out of that paragraph and then you would be correct. Irresponsibility is a problem no matter what you are shooting. From a slingshot all the way to a 50 BMG, If the person does not use their equipment correctly they will cause more harm than good. To single out only .22 calibers is being extremely short-sighted . :rolleyes:

But I can't do that legally! And thats why the .22-250 isn't a good choice for deer, most places.
I am not telling people to break the law. If it is against the law to use .22 in your state or area then don’t use it. (Duh!!!) The purpose of this thread is to inform you that the 22-250 WILL kill deer the same as most popular deer calibers with has been proven here with normal healthy sized whitetail deer.

For big game, all .22CF are "experts" guns. Capable of doing the job if expertly used. And capable of failing when not.
After reading this last statement it is clear that you did not fully think or read my post through. What I have written is not merely an opinion that I have blindly come up with, but a collaboration of experiences of a very large group of hunters spanding all ages and levels of expertise. IT WAS A LAW that we could not use larger than .22 for deer hunting and not a choice therefore the conclusions were born out of necessity. In the end it is fact that through real world trials and experiences is that the 22-250 is just as capable at deer hunting as any other popular deer hunting caliber. No, this does not include larger game such as bear or elk because I have no experiences with these, but when it comes to white tailed sized game then YES 22-250, 220 swift and even .223 is just as capable as a 30-06.

And buy the way Flatbush Harry, all guns and calibers should be handled expertly and are capable of failing when not.;)

treefarmernc
August 10, 2009, 12:52 AM
What bullet have you put thru the shoulder bones of a deer that penetrated the same as other calibers and didn't blow up?
Buy saying shoulder region I was referring to the front area or kill zone of the deer. And yes, the chance is there for the bullet to explode when hitting bone resulting in the same out come...dead deer. The worst that can happen is having to throw away one shoulder. It is not usually a problem with my 60gr soft points.

taylorce1
August 10, 2009, 06:50 AM
Obviously trolling here in the original post however I'll play along for a little. I don't know for sure if the .22 caliber bullet is banned in 80% of the States but it is here in CO, the smallest bullet I can use is a 70 grain .243 caliber rifle that must produce 1000 ft-lbs @ 100 yards. If the .22 caliber center fire rifle is legal where you live and hunt then I have no problems with people using it for hunting.

The main problem with the .22-250 since that is the cartridge chosen in the OP is the twist rate. 1:14 or 1:12 may or may not stabalize a 60 grain bullet again since that is what the OP stated he is using. To me 60 grains is on the marginal end of a bullet that will hold together at the speeds that a .22-250 can push it. The only real choice for me if I had to use this caliber is the 60 grain Nosler Partition. If you are going to use a .22 a premium bullet is a must Barnes, Nosler, and Swift are three that come to mind that offer bullets capable of holding together for use on deer, heavy match grade bullets for me are not an option.

There is no doubt to me that a properly placed .22 center fire bullet will kill a deer or any other animal. However the bullet selection and twist rates for these cartridges make it a far from ideal selection for me. I'll leave the .22's for targets and varmints and take at least my .243 Win with 95-100 grain bullets for deer sized game.

treefarmernc
August 10, 2009, 08:16 AM
This post was not meant for trolling but only to educate any body else wondering about the capabilities of the cartridge. When searching TFL I saw the question of whether or not the 22-250 was adequate for deer and then the asker being bashed for even considering it. I do wish I had originally included a little more about proper bullet choices ( I may edit it in now) but my original thought was to get across that the cartridge has been used in a large scale for deer successfully without any problem.:)

Fremmer
August 10, 2009, 08:54 AM
What I have written is not merely an opinion that I have blindly come up with, but a collaboration of experiences of a very large group of hunters spanding all ages and levels of expertise. IT WAS A LAW that we could not use larger than .22 for deer hunting and not a choice therefore the conclusions were born out of necessity.

Yeah, and none of 'em wanted to tell you about those times they tracked for miles on end, or searched (but never found) their wounded deer.

Thanks for the education, though.

Daryl
August 10, 2009, 09:01 AM
Except for the following, I agree with you. I'd also keep shots a bit shy of 300 yards, but that's my opinion.

A 22-250 shot to the shoulder region will have the same effect as other calibers.

If the shoulder shot is stopping a 22-250, then this simply isn't true. A 270, 30-06, or 7mm mag will break the shoulder and keep going on through a deer in most cases.

I've shot the 22-250 quite a bit, and I know what it's capable of. I also know that my .243 shoots faster by several hundred fps with the same weight bullet, and I wouldn't use it with the same lightweight bullets generally found in .22 caliber.

Those 50-70 grain .22 caliber bullets are perfectly capable of taking deer with well places shots, but they won't do as well when bone is hit, and a little extra penetration is needed. Every caliber/cartridge has it's limitations, and each has different capabilities. As long as the shooter recognized and honors the limitations and capabilities of his/her chosen cartridge, then all should go well.

For me, I hunt a lot of open country with big canyons to shoot across at times, and I'll stick with the 7mm mag for those uses.

Daryl

treefarmernc
August 10, 2009, 09:12 AM
Tracking wounded deer has happened in the 22-250 camp but no more that in the 30-06 camp. It is simply not a problem, at least no more than with any other caliber. As I have already said, I have hunted with other calibers and along side other hunters and clubs using larger guns and then with my unusual situation of having to use .22 caliber in my home county has giving me more insight into this subject than most other people. Hunter error is what leads to that problem not it being a 22-250.

taylorce1
August 10, 2009, 09:29 AM
The .22-250 or any other .224 caliber center fire cartridge is marginal at best for deer sized game. Deer vary in body size by region what may work well for you in NC may not work in Northern parts of the United States and Canada, as well as out in the Mid West and Western United States for white tail deer. To make such a blanket statement as you did is just asking for an argument intentional or not. Before the laws changed in your county were pistol cartridge rifles and shotguns legal during your firearm season?

Bullet selection and shot placement are paramount regardless of what ever caliber rifle you choose. Again some of the bullets mentioned throughout this topic have either been the wrong construction or would fail to stabilize in the .22-250. And a bullet that will work in a .222 such as the 50 grain mentioned would more than likely fail in a .22-250 due to the velocity differences unless loaded down to a .222 Rem velocities.

There is just far less places to go wrong with larger calibers than there is in smaller ones as far as bullet selection is concerned. Especially when you use factory ammunition and most of them have the game use recommendations on the box. Plus the most common bullet found in .22 center fire cartridges is 55 grains and bullets for the .243 and larger calibers usually are found in 80 grains or heavier and tailored to the deer or elk hunter not the varmint hunter. When was the last time you walked in to your local big box store and found 53 gr Barnes TSX, 60 gr Nosler Partitions, or 75 gr Swift Scirocco loaded in .22 caliber cartridges for deer hunting?

Not one poster here has argued that it will not kill a deer, just that there are far better choices when it comes to deer hunting.

treefarmernc
August 10, 2009, 09:34 AM
Daryl, Again as I said in post #25 I was talking about the shoulder region or the kill zone, front part of the deer (chest, lung, and heart area). My 60gr SP usually will penetrate the shoulder, although I have seen evidence of the bullet “exploding” when hitting harder parts of the shoulder but there is sill more than enough penetration and/or damage to take the deer down on the spot. I have seen more of this when making spinal shots witch only adds to the effectiveness of shot. The shoulder shot has not been a problem. I personally try to put my shots just behind the shoulder or in the chest if possible but am still confident in taking a straight shoulder shot if needed.

treefarmernc
August 10, 2009, 10:00 AM
Before the laws changed in your county were pistol cartridge rifles and shotguns legal during your firearm season?
No, rifle could be used larger than .22 including pistol cartridges. Yes shot guns was and is still legal. The law even covered black powder season in witch we could use only black powder shotguns as the BP rifles are, of coarse, larger than.22 (stupid, yea I know). Let me add that I was not a supporter of the law.

Again some of the bullets mentioned throughout this topic have either been the wrong construction or would fail to stabilize in the .22-250. And a bullet that will work in a .222 such as the 50 grain mentioned would more than likely fail in a .22-250 due to the velocity differences unless loaded down to a .222 Rem velocities.

I have suggested the use of 55-70gr. I have 1-1.5” groups at 100yrds. And 2.5”-3” groups at 200 with my 55gr and 60gr soft points.

Not one poster here has argued that it will not kill a deer, just that there are far better choices when it comes to deer hunting.

And I have not once said that the 22-250 is the best or better than any other caliber, only that it can be and has been efficient at killing deer.

davlandrum
August 10, 2009, 10:02 AM
If legal where you are, go for it.

It is a legal deer round in Oregon, but I am not going to rush out and buy one for deer hunting...

treefarmernc
August 10, 2009, 12:01 PM
Past success with a 22-250 does not guarantee future success. Forward looking statements about what has worked in the past are certain to fail in the future. Statistical reversion to the mean is a natural law. I’m thinking, 'Dude, use a bigger gun

What works in the past or now will not work in the future is what I am taking from this???? What is going to change this? Will the deer start growing Kevlar hair or something? I am not talking about the economy here just the ability of a 22-250 to kill deer. This will not change. A bullet entering the body of a deer will always have the same effect.

There's a statistical axiom in medicine that says 50% of the people who fall from a height of 25' onto a hard surface will die. Adjust the height up or down and the percentages scale accordingly. It is the same for factors determining the suitability of hunting rounds. Excusing exceptions and considering the averages, a bigger round is better.

If I were kicking deer off a cliff I might give some credit to that statement. You are clearly missing the message of this post. I have had an extraordinary amount of experience with using the 22-250 for deer hunting and the simple fact is that the 22-250 is adequate to harvest deer with. I have not just shot a couple of deer successfully then called it a success. This conclusion is of sound evidence obtained over a long length of time and including a large number and varied group of test subjects (hunters and deer).

There is always the variables of life to contend with, As you stated earlier through the story of the deer that was able to run off after being shot in the heart, there is an uncontrollable element to the hunt as well as most things in life. When it comes to deer hunting however, using a 22-250 (properly equipped and deployed) plays no more part in increasing or provoking the variables than any other rifle.
Last, I would like to add that I have not said any thing against using larger calibers. I only point out the 22-250 being adequate for deer hunting.

ZeroJunk
August 10, 2009, 12:21 PM
If a man wants to hunt deer with a 22/250 he doesn't have to justify it to anybody but himself.

But, you are kidding yourself if you think that eventually if you shoot enough of them you won't lose one that you would have gotten with a 270 or 30/06, and you are kidding yourself if you think you won't eventually make a bad shot.

flyguyskt
August 10, 2009, 12:31 PM
i will say only this...i have killed dozens of antelope with the 22-250. but yes they are smaller than a deer... never lost one though and usually dead within 25yrds

phil mcwilliam
August 10, 2009, 01:37 PM
I once stalked within 50 yards of a water buffalo bull. Using a termite nest as a rest I shot the feeding buffalo behind the ear & it dropped like a sack of potatoes with a single 55grain bullet from my 22-250. While I wouldn't recommend the 22-250 as a buffalo rifle, I have also shot over a dozen fallow deer & 3 red deer with it, together with hundreds of pigs & goats. I have never lost a deer when hunting with the 22-250, although 2 deer were hit poorly & did need follow up shots. You will certainly get by with using a 22-250 on deer, but these days I prefer to use my 308. I find a 30 caliber rifle my prefered option for deer hunting, especially if a stag of a lifetime happens to show itself at 300 yards & there is a slight wind blowing.

pilothunter
August 10, 2009, 02:31 PM
If a man wants to hunt deer with a 22/250 he doesn't have to justify it to anybody but himself.

But, you are kidding yourself if you think that eventually if you shoot enough of them you won't lose one that you would have gotten with a 270 or 30/06, and you are kidding yourself if you think you won't eventually make a bad shot.

Well said.

hogdogs
August 10, 2009, 02:48 PM
I am not well versed enuff to take on the efficacy argument of a round based on various energy type measurements. Our smaller specimens of florida white tail are likely not much bigger than a good annie goat. I wouldn't choose anything under a .243 and only if I thought I had all escape trails predetermined for easier tracking. I prefer my minimums to be the .270 bolt gun and the .30-30 in lever for my close in shots. I just can't imagine me opting for a .22 class round for white tail.
Brent

Daryl
August 10, 2009, 03:19 PM
Treefarmernc,

I wasn't arguing the ability of the 22-250 to take deer in the hands of a competent shooter that knows his/her rifle's limitations.

I'm just saying the .22 caliber bullets aren't the same as bigger bullets, and they'll perform differently on game at times, depending on the shot.

I have a .17 Rem that I've no doubt is perfectly capable of taking deer with a well placed shot. I wouldn't use it on a shoulder shot, or a head shot, but through the neck or behind the shoulder would kill a deer without any trouble.

I know of one fella who's daughter killed a nice sized caribou bull with a .17 Rem, one shot did the trick.

Even so, most would agree that it's light for deer sized game, and I'm not planning on using it for that. It's intended for smaller predators like the coyote and bobcat, and that's what I use it for.

I've never had to track a deer yet that I shot with a rifle (archery hunting is a different story, of course). When I shoot, they generally drop in their tracks. Worste case, they drop within a few feet. I shoot them in the right place with a bullet that I know will do the job, and that from a cartridge that launches that bullet with sufficient speed and accuracy to do the job.

As long as the shooter knows his rifle/cartridge/load/bullet combination's abilities and limitations, can shoot it well, and knows where to place the bullet for a clean kill, then there should be no problem.

Daryl

taylorce1
August 10, 2009, 03:21 PM
I have suggested the use of 55-70gr. I have 1-1.5” groups at 100yrds. And 2.5”-3” groups at 200 with my 55gr and 60gr soft points.


Yes but only after the fact, your first post didn’t mention anything about bullet selection until other posters brought it up and you edited your OP later.

I have had an extraordinary amount of experience with using the 22-250 for deer hunting and the simple fact is that the 22-250 is adequate to harvest deer with.

Most of us who post here with regularity have an "extraordinary amount of experience" in one form or another with various calibers on a wider variety of game than just deer. I again say that what works for you isn’t what most of us consider adequate for deer sized game, will it work yes but it is far from a preferred cartridge.

Plus what kind of accuracy are you getting with 70 grain bullets you mentioned? An unaltered Remington M700 usually has a 1:14 twist rate and again usually will not stabilize a 70 grain bullet. I’m not saying there are not exceptions to the rule but a 70 grain .224 caliber are usually a little on the long side for such a slow twist. Granted I’ve never used a .22-250 rifle other than shooting a friends a few times. I was impressed with the accuracy and explosiveness of the bullet on prairie dogs and coyotes with bullets up to 55 grains which leads me to believe it, is far from a good choice for deer.

And of coarse I have missed, witch brings me to the only disadvantage of deer hunting with the 22-250. It does take less to deflect the bullet, such as twigs and stout weeds accounting for one of my misses ( I believe).

This is another statement that has me a little worried. Grass, weeds, and twigs all deflect even the heaviest bullets, there is no such thing as a “brush buster” cartridge. The amount of deflection is usually dependent on the distance from target that the deflection starts at. Plus are you 100% sure that your one "deflected bullet" or any other of your "misses" didn’t wound the deer? Little bullets tend to leave little blood to trail. My real problem with cartridges such as the .22-250 is either they work with dramatic results resulting in spectacular kills or they work very poorly sometimes resulting in a lengthy tracking process or lost animal.

Like other posters have said, if it is legal then no problem. However I will throw arguments out there against it. Especially to someone who might be reading this post and considering using the .22-250 for deer hunting, without weighing all the pros and cons.

Kmar40
August 10, 2009, 04:06 PM
It is NOT legal for deer hunting in about 80% of the US!
I've only lived in 5 states but it was legal in all five. I'm doubting your off the cuff stats.

treefarmernc
August 10, 2009, 05:38 PM
If a man wants to hunt deer with a 22/250 he doesn't have to justify it to anybody but himself.

But, you are kidding yourself if you think that eventually if you shoot enough of them you won't lose one that you would have gotten with a 270 or 30/06, and you are kidding yourself if you think you won't eventually make a bad shot.
How many people do you know who use a 22-250 for deer hunting on a regular basis? How many times have you taken deer with this cartridge? How much experience do you have with using this cartridge for deer? If you had read the first post, I admitted that I have made a bad shot. The shot was bad because I made it bad, would not had mattered if it was the 22-250 or 30-06. Are you ignorant enough to believe that larger calibers will keep you from making a bad shot? I hate to tell you but people make bad shots all the time with all calibers. I had to use this cartridge for nearly 20 years. A whole county of hunters had to use this caliber for more than 20 years. Hunters visiting from other counties and states came to hunt on our game lands with this cartridge. I did not support the law, but because of it I have more knowledge of the 22-250 as a deer rifle than most will have. This is my favorite rifle because of its versatility and is the one I choose when hunting open areas and fields. It IS a good deer rifle.

Nnobby45
August 10, 2009, 05:48 PM
Buy saying shoulder region I was referring to the front area or kill zone of the deer. And yes, the chance is there for the bullet to explode when hitting bone resulting in the same out come...dead deer.

Yes, no question. A bullet that disintegrates and doesn't penetrate into the vital organs will kill the deer-- eventually. Same result. Dead deer, but none of the suffering deers' meat will end up in the freezer.

The "kill zone" of the deer is the heart, lungs, and major vessel area of the deer. It's required that the bullet actually get there--not just hit the mark like it was a paper target. Again, there's a reason why small caliber CF's are outlawed in many states.


Yes, in skilled hands, the .223 or .22-250 can certainly kill deer. A skilled shooter with such a caliber is more effective than an unskilled one with a heavier caliber. But everyone thinks they're capable of "placing the bullet" perfectly to circumnavigate the caliber's lack of penetration and light bullet. It's always the other guys who don't hit the deer right.


If your patience and marksmanship skills are up to the task, then you're likely the exception to those who wound deer that would have been humanely killed with an adequate caliber.

ZeroJunk
August 10, 2009, 06:29 PM
Are you ignorant enough to believe that larger calibers will keep you from making a bad shot?


Where did that come from?

I have no doubt that you are smarter than the collective intelligence from decades of sportsman whose general consensus is that the 22 caliber centerfires are not the best choice for deer.

ChiefMuzz
August 10, 2009, 06:51 PM
It IS a good deer rifle.

is quite different from

The purpose of this thread is to inform you that the 22-250 WILL kill deer the same as most popular deer calibers with has been proven here with normal healthy sized whitetail deer.

I think you are seriously confusing the ability of the 22-250 to kill deer with it being a good dear gun. You seem to be quite stubborn on pushing the idea on everyone that the 22-250 is as good as other rifles. Anecdotal evidence presented as such really means little. Yes the 22-250 can kill deer. So can a knife, car, and poison dart. Just because something can kill a deer does not make it a good instrument to kill. You may have years and years of experience in making efficient kills with your rifle and bullet combination. However that does not mean a 22-250 is a good deer rifle. I personally have hunted with a .243 for over 12 years as my exclusive deer rifle. I loved it. I never had a deer run more than 35 yards after I hit it and most chest shots made the contents unrecognizable when I opened the deer up. However I spent alot of time practicing with my rifle and knew what shots I could and couldn't take. I hit deer out to 275 yards and even threaded a few needles through brush. Does this make the .243 a good deer rifle, no, but it worked for me. If you want to post and support the idea that the 22-250 is adequate for killing deer, then please do, but be aware that it is not the same as a 30-06 or 270 in terms of efficiency and power. Simple mathematics will tell you that. Also be aware that someone who is new to deer hunting might not be able to differentiate the truth from your idea of how well a 22-250 can kill a deer. A good deer rifle is one that you've practiced with and can efficiently kill a deer with and that might be different for everyone.

MLeake
August 10, 2009, 08:18 PM
Odd, it's pretty standard in the southeast. I have several friends who swear by it. For some of the smaller deer in the southeast, a .270 or .30-06 can result in a lot of bloodshot meat.

treefarmernc
August 10, 2009, 09:25 PM
Yes, no question. A bullet that disintegrates and doesn't penetrate into the vital organs will kill the deer-- eventually. Same result. Dead deer, but none of the suffering deers' meat will end up in the freezer.

When a 22-250 bullet strikes the shoulder bone, the force of the blow (explosion) is driven into the chest cavity, causing sever damage to internal organs. As I have said before I hunted in an area in which everybody hunted with these types of rifles and I have seen first hand what kind of damage is done from these kinds of shots.

I have no doubt that you are smarter than the collective intelligence from decades of sportsman whose general consensus is that the 22 caliber centerfires are not the best choice for deer.

I am not saying that I am smarter than the collective. I am only defending the experience that I and the others in our unique situation have gained; witch is a situation most others have not experienced. We have used (Successfully) .223, 22-250, and 220 swift for deer hunting, while most others only know them as varmint rounds.

I think you are seriously confusing the ability of the 22-250 to kill deer with it being a good dear gun. You seem to be quite stubborn on pushing the idea on everyone that the 22-250 is as good as other rifles.

I define a good deer gun as one that efficiently kills deer. The 22-250 is efficient at killing deer; the 30-06 is also efficient at killing deer. In that respect the 22-250 is the same. The 30-06 will make a bigger whole and destroy the organs more but not to the effect of discrediting the 22-250 as an efficient deer killer which is what I have been trying to get across. IF I was to claim the 22-250 was just as good as larger calibers in every way then I would be able to use it for elk or moose hunting which is obviously not correct. I do not claim that the 22-250 is equal to the ballistics of the 30-06 (or other larger calibers) but only can kill deer as reliably,especially the weight range I have mentioned before, up to 220lbs.

flyboy14
August 10, 2009, 09:26 PM
55 grain hornady ILSP, pushed by a load of varget. Killed a lot of deer with it. If you don't like it, don't try it. Legal here, and legal in Nebraska. 223 is legal here.

LateNightFlight
August 10, 2009, 09:36 PM
If I were kicking deer off a cliff I might give some credit to that statement. You are clearly missing the message of this post.

I illustrated the scalability of force and effect. The higher the fall, the more deleterious the effect. The bigger the bullet, the more deleterious the effect. Apples to apples. That's not to say some people don't die from a 3 foot fall, but the folks who don't grasp this concept are the ones who are doomed to fail at suicide by diving off a foot stool.

If the discussion is only about what is "adequate," I would have to go the next step and argue that you don't need a blustering cannon like the 22-250. They're dangerous because they shoot too far; they retain too much energy. They damage the unprotected ears of the hunter. The rounds are too expensive. Plus, I can use my .22 lr for rabbits and squirrels. It’s the ultimate in versatility. And there’s no getting around the fact that thousands of deer have been killed (poached) with nothing more than a .22 long rifle. Thousands. In the right hands, at the right distance, with the right round, a 22 lr is perfectly adequate.

In the end, the take-away from the discussion shouldn't be about what is adequate, but what is optimal. A 22 lr isn't optimal for deer. Neither is a 22-250.

44 AMP
August 10, 2009, 09:39 PM
But what works, works.

WDM Bell killed elephants with 6.5 & 7mm rifles. Does that make them good elephant rifles? Only in his hands, and under those conditions he used them.

The .22-250 can be used for deer, where legal, but for most people it would not be a good choice. The .458 Win Mag can be used for deer (and as far as I know, legal everywhere), but for most people it would not be a good choice.

I reload for, and shoot rifles in a couple dozen different calibers, from .22 Hornet to .458 Win Mag, and have owned and used a .22-250 in one rifle or another since before Remington made it a factory round back in the 1970s. I am quite familiar with it, and what it can, and cannot easily do. And I stand by my opinion. Since you are legally restricted to .22s, the .22-250 is one of the best calibers you could use. But if you are not, a larger caliber is a better choice.

Art Eatman
August 10, 2009, 10:00 PM
Back in the 1930s when gunsmith Jerry Gebby of Nebraska copyrighted "Varminter" for the necked-down 250-3000, about all that were available for bullets were the 40- to 50-grain "blowup" varmint bullets. Remington did a minor amount of tweaking, decades later, and just called it the ".22-250".

The last dozen or so years have seen a bunch of R&D in bullet technology, and not just in the itty-bitty sizes. However, .22 jacketed bullets are now available which don't come all unglued the instant they hit something. They won't necessarily penetrate through a lot of meat, or blow through any heavy bone, but for careful shot placement on deer they're quite adequate.

The .22-250 is like any of the lesser cartridges in that it has more limitations than, say, the 6mm to 30-caliber range. Possibly the 6.5mm to 30-caliber range. (Not worth arguing over, and I've killed 20+ bucks with a .243.)

I don't shoot at a deer's neck. I shoot at one particular place on that neck. I don't shoot somewhere in the heart/lung area; I pick a particular place for the shot. And I darned sure don't shoot "somewhere in the brown".

Common sense and careful shot placement are requisite for any cartridge. Just moreso with the small bullets.

treefarmernc
August 11, 2009, 12:08 AM
I illustrated the scalability of force and effect. The higher the fall, the more deleterious the effect. The bigger the bullet, the more deleterious the effect. Apples to apples. That's not to say some people don't die from a 3 foot fall, but the folks who don't grasp this concept are the ones who are doomed to fail at suicide by diving off a foot stool.

I have in no way indicated that a 22-250 is as powerful as or more so than any other caliber. I do believe that I am comparing apples to apples only apples of different sizes. I am only showing that to a certain point one can serve the same purpose as the other. A white tail deer could be satisfied with the small apple but for an elk it will take the larger to fulfill its need. Turn the tables and give the white tail the large apple and the elk small you will still fulfill the whitetails hunger but not the elk. This related to this debate by the fact that the 22-250(small apple) will kill a whitetail as affectively as the 30-06(Large apple) but after this point the larger calibers take over. I don’t debate that within the list of effective deer cartridges the 22-250 is at the bottom just that it is and should be on the list.

WDM Bell killed elephants with 6.5 & 7mm rifles. Does that make them good elephant rifles? Only in his hands, and under those conditions he used them.

This is where I guess that I am differing from the rest of you the most. I do not believe the 22-250 to require extra ordinary effort on behalf of its user to hunt deer. It takes no more expertise to use this caliber for whitetail deer than it does any other caliber for whitetail deer. I am not indicating in any way that the 22-250 is more powerful just that is handled in much the same way. This caliber has been used by the youngest to the oldest, the least experienced to the most experienced. The learning curve is the same as any other caliber for those just starting out. The same aim points on the deer are used by 22-250s as those when using larger calibers.

Since you are legally restricted to .22s, the .22-250 is one of the best calibers you could use. But if you are not, a larger caliber is a better choice.

We are no longer restricted to .22,that was changed some time around 2000. My aim is not to declare the 22-250 to be the better choice just for it to be considered a good choice.

Nnobby45
August 11, 2009, 12:21 AM
When a 22-250 bullet strikes the shoulder bone, the force of the blow (explosion) is driven into the chest cavity, causing sever damage to internal organs.

If the "force of the blow" does't include bullet and bone frags, then what does this force consist of, since the temporary cavity doesn't precede the bullet.

ChiefMuzz
August 11, 2009, 04:31 AM
Odd, it's pretty standard in the southeast. I have several friends who swear by it. For some of the smaller deer in the southeast, a .270 or .30-06 can result in a lot of bloodshot meat.

I think you may have just misread or misunderstood what I said. The .243 was a very good deer rifle for me, but that doesn't make it a good deer rifle. It the hands of somewhere unfamiliar with it's abilities and limitations it becomes ineffective. Like I said I've shot many deer with that gun and it performed well, but that's just for me. My experiences have no bearing on someone else's ability to use the rifle. Is that a little easier to understand?

ZeroJunk
August 11, 2009, 06:09 AM
Most of us can go kill deer with just about anything that will make a hole. The naysayers are making the case that it is a matter of percentages.The exact percentage will never be known so I will throw one out for discussion.
If 100 different shots are made in hunting conditions from a group of average hunters frrom different angles and some wandering away from the best placement let's say 95% of the results between a 22/250 and a 270 Win will be for all practical purposes the same.
But, there will be occassions when the extra energy of the 270 will rupture an artery or penetrate a little further and you will get a deer that you would have lost with a 22 caliber.
The same could be said for moving up to a 300 magnum of some sort vs the 270. But, you get to a point of diminishing returns because they kick so bad a lot of people can't shoot them well.
The meat damage is not much of an issue. If you shoot the deer broadside in the lungs you are not going to have any meat damage unless you were planning on eating the heart or the liver. Sometimes you have to sacrifice one of the shoulders and about any cartridge will ruin it if that's where the shot hits.If you hit the loins or the hams you should have aimed better.

So, my logic is that in the long run you will get more deer if you use a larger cartridge and bullet as long as you can shoot it well even if the difference is very small. It could be the buck of your lifetime.

treefarmernc
August 11, 2009, 08:11 AM
If the "force of the blow" does't include bullet and bone frags, then what does this force consist of, since the temporary cavity doesn't precede the bullet.

Why does it not contain the bullet and bone fragments? The bullet does not vaporize into thin air. The force of the blow is simply the energy being released by the motion of the bullet. A large part of that energy is still directed in the same direction the bullet is traveling The 22-250 is starting it energy dump earlier upon entering the deer but it still is more than enough to cause the damage it needs to enter the chest cavity. This energy transfer is what makes soft points, hollow points, etc. better than FMJs for hunting. The FMJ is still carrying much energy with it throughout its travel through the mass and possibly with it as it exits. Expanding bullets such as the soft points dumps all or most of the energy into the mass. It’s the energy release that causes the most damage.

ZeroJunk
August 11, 2009, 08:21 AM
http://www.firearmexpertwitness.com/customguns/calcnrg.html


It’s the energy release that causes the most damage.
Exactly.

Art Eatman
August 11, 2009, 08:35 AM
Water--and blood--are incompressible liquids. A bullet hits and drives liquid ahead of it. And, of course, bone chips and meat, depending on the location of the hit. But it's much like driving a nail except that this nail is not rigid. The destructive pressure has a side-component. The summation of all this happiness is what's pictured in the photos of bullets fired into ballistic gel.

And by the way: Bloodshot meat only means a bad hit, since if you don't shoot 'em in the eating meat, there's no bloodshot meat to worry about. :D

What state allows what diameter bullet has nothing to do with the thread.

riggins_83
August 11, 2009, 08:40 AM
There's a good reason it's not legal in so many states for deer hunting... it's not really consistently sufficient for a quick drop. Rather use the 30-06 and have less chance of the deer feeling anything.

Tom Matiska
August 11, 2009, 09:28 AM
Any round that can turn a few pounds of neck into purple jelly or penetrate past the ribs far enough to make some heart/lung soup will do the trick... as said before just don't do the quartering meat shot.

Countless thousands of hunters here in PA fall in love with their chuck rifles and use them with great success on bambi. It works not just because the round is good enough, but because hunters who just spent the summer blasting little critters in the head at hundreds of yards are more than good enough.

UniversalFrost
August 11, 2009, 10:41 AM
ok, i read the OP's post and a few below that. didn't feel like reading the other 3 pages.

Here is my view point.

I am originally from up north (south dakota). they have minimum calibers and cartridges allowed for deer hunting. This is for a good reason. You try and take a big 225+ whitetail or even larger muley with a .22 caliber weapon and the only shots that you have available are head and neck shots and these are really iffy and un-ethical in my book and most of the G&F departments in the midwest.

me. the smallest caliber I would use on a deer up north is 6mm (my chambering would be .243).

Now, down here in AZ where I currently reside. I would not hesitate to drag out my .22-250 on the small coues deer ( smallest subspecies of whitetail and average under 100lbs alive).

smaller southern deer are the only deer I would shoot (in the vitals and not a neck or head shot) with a 22-250. I want to shoot a caliber and cartridge that has ample energy when it impacts the animal that it will power through bone and be able to deliver a clean pass through. Also want it to be wide enough to create a nice big wound channel (i know that this comes down to more of bullet design than bullet diameter, but for me bigger is better).

Now you will see me in the northern deer woods with a 30/06 or .243, but down south i would drag my 22-250 or .243 out.

LanceOregon
August 11, 2009, 11:29 AM
It is not "good" for deer hunting. It is adequate, with the right bullet. It is NOT legal for deer hunting in about 80% of the US! Think about that for a moment.


Flatbush Harry:

That is no where even remotely close to being an accurate or true statement. In all 4 states that I have hunted in ( California, Nevada, Oregon, and Idaho ), even the .223 Remington is perfectly legal to use for Deer hunting.

I personally would never hunt deer with anything less than my .243 Win But the fact is that even the .223 Remington can take Deer cleanly, as long as an appropriate bullet is used and the range is reasonable.

--

Daryl
August 11, 2009, 11:48 AM
That is no where even remotely close to being an accurate or true statement. In all 4 states that I have hunted in ( California, Nevada, Oregon, and Idaho ), even the .223 Remington is perfectly legal to use for Deer hunting.


It's also legal in Arizona, and I'm pretty sure in New Mexico, Utah, and Texas (I know of people in each of these states that have taken deer in season with .22 centerfires).

.22 centerfires aren't legal in Colorado though.

Daryl

butta9999
August 11, 2009, 12:05 PM
The .22-250 might be fine for the little whitetail deer, as it would be for our smaller species like hog deer, small fallow, and chital..

I would not attempt using a .22-250 on a 250kg sambar stag though, or a mature sambar doe.. Not enough gun in my book.

LanceOregon
August 11, 2009, 05:33 PM
Here in Western Oregon, where we have the generally smaller Blacktail Deer species, the .243 Winchester is extremely popular with hunters. And I know of a couple of guys who have taken Blacktail with their AR-15's using the .223 Remington at short range.

I've not heard of anyone in our area hunting deer with the .22-250, though.


-

Daryl
August 11, 2009, 06:24 PM
To illustrate one point a bit further...

I know of a couple of ol' boys that insist that anything bigger than a 22-250 for elk is just overkill. Not only that, but they use single shot "hand-rifles", to boot.

They take neck shots only, and they're very successful on deer, elk, and antelope. They're also about the biggest bunch of rough necks you'd ever find in a hunting camp.

But they got in a problem one year, because the elk were wise to 'em. Those 22-250 handguns weren't worth a darn at 500-700 yards, but they had to try.

I know one ol' boy that hunted with them using a .243, mostly because they gave him too hard of a time if he used a 7mm mag. The fella with the .243 got an elk that year, at pretty long range, and considered himself lucky...even though he's a crack shot with a rifle.

The point is, you have to honor the firearm and cartridge's limitations. A lot of folks don't know the limitations of the 22-250, and even those who do can try to push it too far (pun intended).

So, when someone comes on board and tries to tell everyone that the 22-250 bullets do the same thing as larger bullets, no matter the shot, then I'm going to disagree with them on that point.

The 22-250 is capable of taking deer, but as others have said, it's not considered a good deer rifle. If it works for you, then by all means use it. Recommending it to others as a "good deer rifle" is a half-truth though. It's an adequate cartidge in the right hands, but likely won't do as well in the hands of someone new to hunting; one who's succeptable to buck fever, and who might not place that bullet quite right.

For them, I'd recommend a 30-30, .243, or .308 as a "good deer cartridge", and those would be my minimum recommendations.

Daryl

treefarmernc
August 11, 2009, 07:45 PM
The point is, you have to honor the firearm and cartridge's limitations.
Always, I could not agree more!:)

treefarmernc
August 11, 2009, 08:08 PM
So, when someone comes on board and tries to tell everyone that the 22-250 bullets do the same thing as larger bullets, no matter the shot, then I'm going to disagree with them on that point.
I have expressed throughout this thread what I believe the limitations are for the 22-250. I have mentioned the weight range of the deer that I believe it can handle, the yardage, the correct ammo, and the need to be accurate. If you disagree with those numbers, that is OK. Most people have their own ideas of what the limits is of any thing they shoot. What I have posted is what I believe is a rounded view of what I have experienced and from the experiences of those around me.

emcon5
August 11, 2009, 08:23 PM
That is no where even remotely close to being an accurate or true statement. In all 4 states that I have hunted in ( California, Nevada, Oregon, and Idaho ), even the .223 Remington is perfectly legal to use for Deer hunting.This is correct, at least as far as California is concerned. The only provision is "rifles using centerfire cartridges with softnose or expanding projectiles" (353. Methods Authorized for Taking Big Game)

In other words, 17 Remington is a legal deer cartridge.:rolleyes:

bhannah
August 11, 2009, 09:10 PM
I love my 22-250 it is by far my favorite rifle, but…
Lets look at all the things that CAN kill a deer..

Rocks
Spear
Knife
Stick
Car/Truck
Ninjas

I saw a video of an air rifle killing a hog… bet it would kill a deer just as well.
I killed a deer with a .22 short after I hit it with my truck.

All of these things can kill a deer the reason we don’t use them is there is a better tool for the job.

Nnobby45
August 11, 2009, 10:54 PM
Why does it not contain the bullet and bone fragments? The bullet does not vaporize into thin air.

You're talking in circles. If the lightweight bullet could penetrate bone and continue to the vitals, we wouldn't be discussing the bullet disintegrating on the shoulder with failure to PENETRATE. Maybe your definition of the shoulder is really the "shoulder area kill zone area", but my definition of the shoulder is the shoulder, complete with heavy bones, through which small caliber high velocity bullets don't usually pass. Without that penetration of real projectiles, there isn't any "energy" transmitted to the vitals.

When a bullet disintegrate on heavy bone, it doesn't disappear into thin air, it just tears up the shoulder meat without further penetration.

I've heard on other forums that .223 DPX is a bullet that might be capable of accomplishing such a feat---defeating bone and penetrating. I'd assume, handloaded into the .22-250, a DPX, or copper Barnes bullet of some sort might work out. Don't think it'll come apart.

Dearhunter61
August 14, 2009, 05:46 PM
treefarmernc,

I agree with you that the 22-250 will kill deer. Heck it will kill an elk. But so will a 22lr. I have killed a couple of deer with my 22-250 and it did the job well but I do not think it is the best cartridge for it. I do believe you made some good points but just as a .375 will take a deer it does not make it a great deer cartridge. I have hunted deer for years with my 7mag and just this past year dropped down to a 6.5x55 which I personally believe is a GREAT round for deer hunting. I believe you can be a little on the light side and the 22-250 is in my opinion. You point out that a bad shot is a bad shot. Agreed...but I do believe that larger cartridges will do more damage to the deer than smaller on average and that hopefully would allow the hunter a better chance to recover the wounded/killed animal.

Bottom line is that shot placement is critical no matter what you shoot and if a 22-250 allows you the chance to make a better shot and therefore a more humane kill then go for it.

ken22250
August 14, 2009, 06:46 PM
"even the .223 Remington can take Deer cleanly"
the last deer i shot with a .222 rem was last september in the crop-damage red tag season, and it dropped where it stood, shot from arround 50yards with a 50 gr soft point in the head, not ideal caliber, but i eat the meat, and it does no damage in the head.
ken

LanceOregon
August 15, 2009, 04:28 AM
In other words, 17 Remington is a legal deer cartridge.

Hey dude, in California, even a .22 Hornet can be used for Deer Hunting.

Idaho allows rimfire ammo for taking Cougars, even though they are generally considered to be big game.

So in Idaho, you can actually legally hunt Cougars with a .17 HM 2 rimfire ( which is the .22 LR necked down to 17 caliber ). Although I think that one would have to have really big balls, or perhaps be a bit stupid, to do that.


-

butta9999
August 16, 2009, 04:04 PM
we could talk all day and all night about the one fluke shot that small bore rifle can do on large game... I mean shoot an elephant through the eyeballs with a .22lr and it will probably die.

Does that mean hunt elephants with a .22lr, im guessing no. Yes small bore rifles can take down large game witht the perfect shot, and i respect hunters that wait for that perfect shot.

I also respect the animals i hunt to die a quick and humane death, so i think right caliber and bullet choice are essential.

TJ Freak
August 16, 2009, 06:16 PM
Yea I believe that you need at least a 155 Howitzer to kill whitetail. Bring enough GUN! BTW, when I was young and ignorant, I killed my share of whitetails with my 22-250. I was really lucky and they all died pretty much where I shot them. Dang I wish I had talked to more better educated people that could have shown the error of my ways. LOL :D

Art Eatman
August 17, 2009, 06:22 AM
Poor ol' horse...