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The Kid
August 5, 2009, 07:59 PM
hypothetical scenario. I've not taken any classes so excuse my ignorance.

You are at home with or without your family...either one, and you hear an intruder entering your home or already in your home.

Do you confront the intruder, or do you hole up somewhere and call the police?

Personally, I would post up behind my bed with my 12ga and call the police. If the baddy were unfortunate enough to enter my room, I would immediately dispatch him. This seems like the safest course of action as it doesn't give the baddy the opportunity to surprise you. Do you think I'd be better off alerting the baddy of my presence or do you think lying in wait is acceptable.

So what should you do? Go after him, yell at him, or just wait for him to come to you?

Brian Pfleuger
August 5, 2009, 08:05 PM
The best response, when possible, it to collect your family into a safe room, call the police and announce in no uncertain terms to the BG that you are armed and will shoot if he/she/they attempt to breach your safe room. After that, act accordingly.

Outside of gathering in a safe room there are FAR too many possibilities involving house lay-out, number of BGs, BG between you and family, police response time, etc, etc, to be able to have any sort of intelligent discussion about what might be done and when and where.


(This has been discussed to death by the way)

Kyo
August 5, 2009, 08:07 PM
edit- nevermind delete

The Kid
August 5, 2009, 08:09 PM
Thanks Pete the Killa

Sorry if it has been discussed to death. My friends and I were discussing it amongst ourselves.

I agree w/ you Killa.

Brian Pfleuger
August 5, 2009, 08:12 PM
Don't worry about it, that's what the new guys are for.:);):D

Scroll through a couple pages in this section and you'll find a thread or two (or 20) that may or may not have started on this topic but went there nonetheless.

DiscoRacing
August 5, 2009, 08:17 PM
everyone here knows that i carry 24/7... hopefully no one would want to try the luck/lack thereof.... in coming into my home and hopefully making it out alive.

(BH)
August 5, 2009, 08:53 PM
Well you know what The Clash had to say about it.......

The Kid
August 5, 2009, 09:01 PM
exactly BH

(BH)
August 5, 2009, 10:37 PM
Yeah I figured you'd catch that.

I too am a Cormac McCarthy/Clash fan from Mississippi.

Cheers.

EricReynolds
August 5, 2009, 11:08 PM
You said either with or without my family. It's not exactly irrelevent. With or without decides my course of action. There are other variables. What time is it? Are my wife and I in the living room watching tv while the kids play? Is it nap time? Is it the middle of the night? If I have the option, I go with my old friend and neighbor Pete, and I collect the family to hole up while we call 911. If it's the middle of the night, my kids are asleep in their rooms and not safe. Bad guy goes in to my son's room, startles and wakes him up...what then? If this is the scenario, I have no choice but play John Wayne and clear the house. No false bravado here, it's certainly not something I'd ever like to see happen, but having a family and being an armed citizen, it is something I've given thought to.

jfrey123
August 6, 2009, 01:04 AM
Depending on where I am if it happens... If I'm downstairs I'm going to go upstairs if I can safely get the fiance and any others to the stairs. Downstairs has too many angles for the BG to get the drop on me, but if I'm certain the BG is between me and my stair case then I'm not going to risk moving myself or others into harm's way.

The goal is to get people to my bedroom. That's where my arsenal is, that's where I make my stand.

From my bedroom, I can easily cover the two areas that lead to my stair case. I will be standing there at the ready, hollering in no uncertain terms that "I have a gun motherlover, get the F--- out!!!!" I have the option to retreat to my bedroom if need be, and have a good area of concealment up there as well.



This really only goes for situations where I am certain it is a break in. I am prone to investigate the "bumps in the night" before reacting as stated above.

CWPinSC
August 6, 2009, 01:06 AM
Clearing a house is VERY dangerous. Even trained LEOs don't like to do it. Think about it. The intruder knows exactly where HE is, you have no idea. From your lights/noise, he knows exactly where YOU are. You're exposed, coming to him in hiding.

Grab the family, bunker down in a defensible place and call 911. If he comes to you, you're fighting on YOUR turf, with YOUR rules.

NOTHING in the house is worth your life.

Tucker 1371
August 6, 2009, 01:23 AM
My current plan is influenced heavily by the layout of my house. The two members of my family that are unarmed sleep downstairs while I am upstairs. From the landing halfway up the stairs I can cover anyone trying to make it back to their bedroom so my plan now is to just go to that landing and park right there and watch while my little brother phones the police. So mine is kind of a 50/50... I kind of go then stay... I guess.

Skan21
August 6, 2009, 03:29 AM
My neighbors wouldn't even dream of breaking into my house. They all think I'm some crazy gun nut.......

TailGator
August 6, 2009, 09:09 AM
Two replies indicated that they did not expect break-ins because friends and neighbors know they are armed. I personally don't expect any break-in or home invasion to come from a friend (can you still even use the term?) or a neighbor. Gotta have a plan, and maybe it needs to include some adjustments to one's "friend" list or, if feasible, what neighborhood you live in. Anyone have any statistics about what proportion of burglaries or home invasions are committed by people familiar with the victim? Maybe I am being charmingly old-fashioned and naive, but I would expect it to be pretty low.

SAIGAFISH
August 6, 2009, 09:48 AM
In my house there is a long hallway that goes to all the bedrooms
so my defense would be set up in between the bed rooms and the
rest of the house,if the sound is cooming from one of the kids rooms
like the sound of someone coming in the window he better watch out
im comin in hot.but if its in the kids room i would rather go in hands free
to close to shoot near the kids,have the gun but be ready for a knife
fight.so i want my line at the end of that hallway there is also the perfect
backstop at other end in the living room 6ft wide all the way to the ceiling
brick fireplace,so i dont have to worry about shooting the neibghor,s

Skan21
August 7, 2009, 05:51 AM
I live in an apartment building, and NONE of the people that live near me are my friends. Not exactly the most upstanding appearing citizens.

ezenbrowntown
August 7, 2009, 01:59 PM
I disagree with some mentioned earlier. Some said, "nothing in your house is worth your life". My 18 month old son is, and he's on the other side of my house (living room seperates the house). I don't like the idea of clearing my house either, but I'll definitely take my chances. I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just pointing a situation where gathering the family may require me to put myself in harm's way. I don't like that he can hear me coming, but I do like home field advantage.

As for my stuff, you're absolutely right, nothing of that sort is worth my life. That's why I carry insurance.

EricReynolds
August 7, 2009, 02:03 PM
I agree that clearing the house is in fact extremely dangerous. That's why it's my last resort. However, the layout of my house doesn't allow me to grab my family and bunker down. To get to my son's room without clearing the house would require me to get to the attic and repel into his room. Being as that's unreasonable, I'm clearing the house. I know that even LEOs don't like doing it, but I'm not exactly a stewardess myself.

Brian Pfleuger
August 7, 2009, 03:58 PM
To get to my son's room without clearing the house would require me to get to the attic and repel into his room. Being as that's unreasonable, I'm clearing the house.


If you had any tacti-coolness at all, that's exactly what you'd do.:D;)

brdrail
August 7, 2009, 06:54 PM
I had to deal with this a number of years ago - attemped break-in into my house late evening. My little brother was only six at the time, and was sleeping up on the second floor of the house. I checked to make sure he was still asleep upstairs, grabbed a 12-ga pump shotgun (an ancient Sears shotgun), called the police, and moved to a place where I could get the first series of shots in before the bad guy knew what hit him. Luckily, the intruder didn't get through the door he was trying to force...and it would have ended badly for him since I was waiting for him on the other side of it - and no, I wasn't in the mood to give a warning. I was the only person between the bad guy and my little brother, and I wasn't going to allow the perp time to figure out where I was first.

The cops arrived about ten minutes after the attempted robber gave up and left. Now, I always keep some kind of HD capability nearby...my Glock and M1 carbine seem to work best for me. Regardless...I would never leave nor give up the element of surprise in my own house. Best bet is to hang tight with the three most potent weapons you have - your wits, a phone to call the cavalry, and some handy firepower that you know you can accurately and safely use when the chips are down.

45Gunner
August 10, 2009, 04:52 PM
First and foremost, always, always call the police. Your next move depends upon your tactical training. If you have none, gather up the women and children, sequester them in a closet and guard the door with your shotgun like you never guarded anything else in your life.

If you are a competent marksman and a have tactical combat experience, I say "GAME ON." Go get them and have fun doing it.

obxned
August 10, 2009, 06:47 PM
This scenario is a bit more complicated for those of us with dogs.

EricReynolds
August 10, 2009, 09:36 PM
That's a good point about the pooches. Depending on the size and training of the dog, it can either be a liability or a great asset and ally. To say nothing of the deterrent factor of a dog's bark scaring a bad guy right off.

troy_mclure
August 11, 2009, 12:54 AM
i have 2 roomies, 1 a bit of a drinker.

i cant go just calling the cops for bumps in the night, ill go check out if its a roomie or not. my house is an open floor plan, and i have "nightlights" set up to back light the main rooms so i can see them from the hallway.

i have hit both of my roomies(the drinker more than once) with the light from my 500, or cx4.

jgcoastie
August 11, 2009, 02:14 AM
i have hit both of my roomies(the drinker more than once) with the light from my 500, or cx4.

And that's the main reason I have two lights. One Glock laser/light combo that slides onto the rail of my G22 (.40) and my Z2 Surefire... If I don't know what it is, I'll investigate using the Z2. No need to point my gun at someone getting a drink of water just to identify them.

Dannyl
August 11, 2009, 03:36 AM
First and foremost, always, always call the police. Your next move depends upon your tactical training. If you have none, gather up the women and children, sequester them in a closet and guard the door with your shotgun like you never guarded anything else in your life.

If you are a competent marksman and a have tactical combat experience, I say "GAME ON." Go get them and have fun doing it.
__________________


I fully agree with the first part of your post, but totally disagree with the last part.
1. "Game On"?? you are talking about potentially taking someone's life, and if you make a mistake, possibly losing yours, Hardly what I would call a game.
2. you are behind cover, with your family, and have called the police, why on earth would you leave that cover and risk your life?

The only time you move from cover is when you move to a better one, or when it is your job to fight the battle, and this requires you to expose yourself. (such as a LEO or a soldier may have to do)

Brgds,
Danny

Dr Raoul Duke
August 11, 2009, 07:21 AM
I live alone, except for a beautiful black female Chow that can hear a mouse pass gas. My house is in a really bad neighborhood. I have solid steel bars on the windows, steel gates on the doors, and a really good alarm system. I keep a cell phone next to my bed so that I cannot be stopped from calling 911 by cutting my hard lines. When I am in my home a firearm is never farther away than the length of my arm, and it's going to be a .45 ACP, .357 Magnum or .12 gauge shotgun. If someone comes to my door after dark they are going to have to be someone I know pretty well just to get the door opened a crack, and I'll have a shotgun in my hands. If anybody tries to break into my house at night, while I am asleep, my dog will go completely nuts and I will wake up. I will call 911, turn on all the lights from my keypad, and stay in my bedroom and wait for the cavalry. If the BG gets to me before the PD gets here, and is armed in any way, I will kill him (or her). During the day it is pretty much the same deal. Don't come to my door if you don't have a pretty good reason to be there. I have about 5000 or so acquaintances, and 6 friends. My friends call before they come over.

When I am outside my home I am carrying 24/7. Hy house is a fort, and there is a bad dog inside. If someone breaks into my house while I am gone, my alarm company will call me on my cell. If the intruder manages to get past my alarm system somehow, and I come home, I have a very idiosyncratic way of entering my house, and if anything is out of line, say my my black girl dog does not bark to meet me (the intruder will have to kill her), I'll stop, and enter a few minutes later with the PD as an escort. If I did come home and nothing was out of order, if my smiling black doggy girl is happy and waiting to greet me, and somehow someone was in my house, it would be my Mother.:):)

Dr. Raoul Duke
Gonzo Forever

Lee Lapin
August 11, 2009, 07:31 AM
Kid,

No need to remain ignorant.

Take a look at http://www.nrainstructors.org/CourseCatalog.aspx , specifically the class description for Personal Protection In The Home. There's a locator on the page that will tell you if anyone is teaching the class near you.

Failing that, the DVD of the classroom portion of the class is available- see http://materials.nrahq.org/go/product.aspx?productid=ES%2026840 .

fwiw,

lpl

~kev~
August 13, 2009, 04:50 PM
My wife and I are old enough that the kids are grown and moved out. So its just us most of the time.

If my wife and I heard someone in the house, we would get on my side of the bed - we have about 3 feet between the bed and the wall, and I have my computer desk there. Between the computer desk and the bed is an AR-15. I would grab the AR and watch both of the bed room doors from behind the bed while my wife calls the police. So that is our "safe zone".

But if my kids or grand kids were visiting, then I would want to get everyone into a safe room or safe zone.

Unless I absolutely had to confront the person, then I would do my best not to.

Dragon55
August 13, 2009, 05:00 PM
I agree with posting up in a safe place and letting the BG decide if he wants a confrontation .... but baby being in another part of the house brings up another set of problems that no one has seriously addressed.

I'm not sure what the best tactical strategy would be in this instance ..... but I would have to move toward my baby... somehow.:confused:

Sportdog
August 13, 2009, 06:00 PM
Know and understand the gun laws and how they apply in your state. Do everything possible to avoid a physical or gun confrontation with the BG. Even if the law says that you are in your rights to shoot, the mental and financial cost make using a firearm a poor choice unless not using it will result in certain major physical damage or death of you and/or your loved ones. This simple synopsis will save you hours of reading and back and forth endlessly on every little detail that get beat to death on this forum. On the other hand, if you like to argue and interject every possible if, and, or but, you've come to the right place!

jg0001
August 13, 2009, 07:00 PM
collect your family into a safe room, call the police and announce in no uncertain terms to the BG that you are armed and will shoot if he/she/they attempt to breach your safe room

I'm not in favor of the announcement at that stage in the game. That assumes the announcement itself will be a deterrent. If you're correct, great. If you're incorrect, you've just given away the very valuable element of surprise -- the aggressor will now be a lot more careful in their attack. I understand that such a warning may give you a leg up legally (if it comes to that), but it seems like such a tactical no-no that I wouldn't do it -- assuming that I could muster the ability to yell out such a warning in the first place. Besides, if you were already locked in your 'safe' room (i.e. and not just in an open area of your house) and someone broke all the way into it, I think you'd already have pretty solid ground for self defense.

jakeg823
August 14, 2009, 12:55 AM
being a college student in a rental house, i pretty much live in the hood/old retired white people neighborhood...i woke up at 3am 3 times this past semester to about 10 cop cars w/ lights flashing in my front yard. the first time they were all walking around w/ flashlights and one was near my mailbox and it was clear there was nothing around so i left my pistol on the couch right by the door and opened my front door, leaving the screen door closed/locked and hollered to the cop if there was anything i needed to be worried about, he replied "no, some old woman THOUGHT she saw a suspicious character lurking around the back yards"...i said "oh my ass!!! so in other words i need to keep my 1911 close huh?" he just chuckled and said night.

my house is old, creaky and small. my room is about 5 feet from the front door. i also have a female roommate on the other end of the house, w/ an extremely loud door to her room, so i know when she's up. our front door is also extremely loud, and being so close to it i can immediately tell a difference. we always text each other if we're about to be home late, so we dont panic when someone comes in at 2am.

i have my mossie 930 spx in one corner about 3 feet from where i sleep, my stoeger coach gun 12ga just inside my closet. my taurus judge w/ 2 rounds of 000 buckshot and 3 rounds of .45lc in the nightstand about a foot away from my head. and a 1911 hanging off the side of my bed, 6 inches from my head, in a mattress holster that stays well hidden so as to not be discovered by any bg. my roommate knows where each of these are, and has been to the range w/ me multiple times so she knows how to use them. although not very accurate w/ my 1911, she knows how to hit the safety switch and aim either my spx or my coach gun, and when she runs out of ammo in either beat the hell out of the bg w/ the buttstock cuz she still cant get the hang of reloading ha

this set up obviously isnt for everyone...but i'm an extremely light sleeper, so even slight creaks wake me up at night...luckily i've never had to deal w/ anything, but considering that each time those cops were called it was to the mother of a local cops house, 2 doors down from me, due to the fact some gang was targetting her house cuz her son the cop helped put a couple of their boys in jail, i think i'll trust her judgement if she thinks something is wrong enough to call the police...now her son has cops making passes down our street almost hourly, so i feel a lot safer than i did 6 months ago

skydiver3346
August 14, 2009, 08:22 AM
:eek: Clearing the house is very dangerous.

Sometimes you may have to do this to reach your kids, wife, etc. However, if you don't need to get to a family member, I would NOT try and clear home if at all possible. I used to think this is what I would do until I read recently, where a home owner (here in FL) was shot and killed at night (in his home) while trying to clear his house.

If at all possible try and get everyone in one room and behind a bed, etc. and wait for intruder to come to you. You are armed and protected by bed and offer less of a target to BG. Of course, you should call the police immediately. I personally would announce to BG that I have called police and that I am armed. If he enters my room, I will shoot! Good luck.

nazshooter
August 21, 2009, 11:14 PM
I know it's not the popular answer here but personally I'd rather meet the intruder upon entrance to my house rather than from within a bedroom. The way I see it the outside walls/doors offer much more protection than those inside. Also, while they are still outside banging on the door I know exactly where they are but they don't know where I am. Once I'm bottled up in a single room I think I've lost a significant advantage. Obviously this only works if you are confident they haven't yet made it inside. If you're doors/windows/habits are crap or your house is big then you won't know and you'd best stay put if possible.

varoadking
August 22, 2009, 08:01 AM
i have hit both of my roomies(the drinker more than once) with the light from my 500, or cx4.

Best reason I've heard of not to mount a light on a weapon...

Skans
August 22, 2009, 10:16 AM
Clearing a house is VERY dangerous. Even trained LEOs don't like to do it. Think about it. The intruder knows exactly where HE is, you have no idea. From your lights/noise, he knows exactly where YOU are. You're exposed, coming to him in hiding.

I respectfully dissagree for several reasons:

1. You live in your house, probably know it's layout like the back of your hand. The BG doesn't. This is an big advantage to you.

2. What lights? What noise? I've gone through the drill of clearing my house twice - I don't make noise and I don't use lights. I know exactly where my family members are, since that's the first step I take in clearing my house. My house has enough ambient light for me to see in most places without shining flashlights. I listen for noises. Those few rooms where I need artificial light are the last ones I clear.

3. My house has lots of doors going to the outside. This is both good and bad - it makes it more difficult for me to secure my house. But, it also gives me lots of options for quickly walking outside and looking around.

I have a different approach to clearing my house than most. I practice walking inside of my house in the dark - I guaranty you that I'll be qucker and quieter doing this than any intruder. Now, I live in a one story house and know how to slink around both inside/outside or a combination of both. Basically, once I confirm the location of my wife and kid, which takes seconds, anything else moving around in my house at 3:00 am is likely going to get shot.

Glenn E. Meyer
August 22, 2009, 11:37 AM
Try it with an opponent sometime. Get some airsoft guns. Have them come in and then go slink after them.

Clearing the house without opposition isn't real practice.

Brian Pfleuger
August 22, 2009, 11:56 AM
I guaranty you that I'll be qucker and quieter doing this than any intruder.

The intruder doesn't have to be quick or quiet. All he has to do is pull a trigger.

probably know it's layout like the back of your hand. The BG doesn't.


BG doesn't need to know the house. All he needs to do is wait for you to come to him.

Those few rooms where I need artificial light are the last ones I clear.

Can you do that without leaving your back exposed to any of those rooms?

Lost Sheep
August 22, 2009, 05:25 PM
Quote:
i have hit both of my roomies(the drinker more than once) with the light from my 500, or cx4.
Best reason I've heard of not to mount a light on a weapon.
Best reson I've found for having two lights (as the poster with the two roomies said he does).

In my opinion, keeping my finger off the trigger makes a weapons-mounted light acceptably safe. And I practice that way at the range. Default position for my trigger finger is pointed straight.

Lost Sheep.

MacGille
August 22, 2009, 07:19 PM
If someone breaks into my house, he is in more danger than I am. If anyone doubts this, come on in.

Dr. Duke, sorry about the paranoia. Get help, or move.

Glenn E. Meyer
August 23, 2009, 10:24 AM
Sigh - posturing that you will kill someone and that you are invincilbe in your home - gets us nowhere.

The standard cant makes sense.

1. If you have to save the kids or wife, then you should move to it. Know what you are doing.

2. If you can hunker down and call the cops, do it.

3. Realize despite your post of your skills, that the BGs may be quite capable of killing you.

And we are done.