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cincygunner
August 4, 2009, 10:02 AM
Looking to add a shotty to the collection. Primarily for home defense and maybe to take to the range every one in a while and shoot clays.

I have never owned a shotgun before so don't really know much about them and the manufacturers. I am not looking for anything fancy, just synthetic stock is fine and shorter barrel.

I was looking at the Remington 870 and also the Mossberg #3 model 500 both in 12ga

What are some recomendations?

rickyjames
August 4, 2009, 10:10 AM
i recomend you buy one. i prefer the mossy but it's your $.

hamr56
August 4, 2009, 10:18 AM
Honestly I think to do the things you want to do well you need two guns. The reason I say this is most clay guns have l-o-n-g barrels. Not good for manuvering around corners and in hallways. Good home defense guns have short barrels, and I like mine with a pistol grip.

For home defense I bought the Mossy, although I looked long and hard at the 870. Since I am not going to put thousands of rounds through the gun the Mossy fit my bill. However IMHO the 870 is a much better gun and you may find a decent deal at a pawn shop on one, I could not.

I ended up picking up the Mossy for around $150 from Wal-Mart. Went home and put a adjustable stock on it, pulled the stick to allow it to hold more rounds, and sawed off the barrel to legal length. In all I have $180 in it and both the wife and I can use it.

GeauxTide
August 4, 2009, 11:44 AM
Love my 870 Tactical and my old LH 870 Wingmaster. Also own an old 20ga 500. The MB uses an aluminum receiver, is rougher finished, and not as smooth. I use the MB more on the farm because it's got a 26" twist choke barrel. Depends on your preference. Heavier, smoother, pretty vs. lighter, rougher, ugly.

chris in va
August 4, 2009, 12:44 PM
After using a few different shotguns, I'd recommend you choose between the 870 and 500, then get a 18" barrel for HD purposes. Don't bother with the goofy tactical add-ons, just a 26-28" barrel and an 18 incher. The stock shell capacity is MORE than enough to stop an intruder, so no need for the extended mag.

The longer barrel will take chokes for clays use, the 18" will not as it's a straight 'cylinder' open choke.

vranasaurus
August 4, 2009, 12:52 PM
I like the 870 better but the mossberg is a fine shotgun. Whichever one you get you should be able to get two barrels so you can do both things.

Vanya
August 4, 2009, 01:14 PM
Last time I looked you could get the Moss. 500 in 12 gauge in a "field/security
combo" with both 28" and 18 1/2" barrels. I think they throw in a pistol grip, but you can just toss that. :rolleyes:

It's a good deal compared to buying the second barrel separately.

Remington may have something similar, but given the cost of their barrels, it'll probably be spendier.

Buy ammo instead of accessories, and go shoot the thing a lot. :)

kokopelli
August 4, 2009, 01:29 PM
+1 on the 870. Versatile, dependable and parts o'plenty available for them. Same for the Moss, but you can usually find a remy for the same price, or a used one cheaper.

BlackFeather
August 4, 2009, 06:50 PM
I know most everyone is gonna say "american made is better" but I still support my Norinco Hawk 982.... its an 870 copy... works the same and is just as reliable... ive said it before but I like it more than my neighbors 870... however it comes with the Ghost ring sights so if you dont want those then get a mossberg... I like the 870 more but to me quality only out weighs the price when putting 1000s of rounds of rounds through it and the 982 is inbetween the two in price...

the rifleer
August 4, 2009, 06:59 PM
Buy a mossberg from big 5 if you have one nearby. i bought a 20 gauge mossberg combo with a 26" barrel and an 18'' barrel. you can use the 18" barrel for hd and the 26'' for clays. i bought it brand new for $219+tax. its a very dependable shotgun that works when you need it to. it great for clays and great for hd.

zeke66
August 4, 2009, 07:16 PM
I've got an NEF Pardner Pump Protector, another Norinco 870 clone. I also have (and SHOOT) Mossberg 500's and Remington 870's.

If I were dropped off on a desert island and left to fend for myself with only the choice of one of those shotguns, I'd choose the Pardner Pump. That tell ya anything?

colostomyclown
August 4, 2009, 08:22 PM
I'd get a used Mossberg 500 or 500atp with 18.5 or 20" barrel.

flattop44
August 4, 2009, 10:42 PM
I trust the Remington 870, totally reliable, the one to have when your life depends on it.
FT44

Kmar40
August 5, 2009, 01:06 AM
Just wondering, how cheap are those Chinese guns? I see the Mossbergs at Wally for 209 and the Remington for very little more. I'm as tight as the next guy but I can't imagine that you are saving enough money to be buying something Chinese.
I guess you guys are going to make me go to a gunstore and research it me-self. Oh well.

cincygunner
August 6, 2009, 08:17 PM
Well I was decided on the Mossberg 500 and it is still in my mind but I've done some looking and found the Benelli Nova pump. It's within my price range, looking to stay under or around $400

Are there any more I should look at when I go shopping?

My list as of now is
1. Mossberg 500
2. Benelli Nova Pump
3. Remington 870

Dave McC
August 6, 2009, 08:38 PM
While I've been accused of having "870" tattoed someplace on my ample epidermis, there's no dogs on your short list, cincy.

Get the one that feels best and learn it....

BlackFeather
August 6, 2009, 09:45 PM
I paid $200 for the 982 that I have which is an inbetween cost... couldnt find a cheaper one in the area... and I HAD to have the sights... but as dave says find what feels comfortable and learn it... thats what I did...

rickyjames
August 6, 2009, 10:18 PM
if you are looking for a duel purpose shotgun i don't think you will find a better gun or a better value than the mossberg pump. they often come with 2 barrels, mine has an 18" and longer hunting barrel. can't do beter than that :)

OLNfan
August 6, 2009, 11:16 PM
mossberg 500 with the retractable stock +1

geologist
August 7, 2009, 12:40 AM
I would recommend either an 870 or Mossberg 500/590 with the shortest barrel that you can legally own. The shorter barrel makes the SG easier to handle in the confines of your home. It also makes it more difficult for the BG to grab.

An 870 has a steel receiver so it is heavier than the aluminum receiver 500/590. Felt recoil with heavy loads is less with the heavier 870 compared to a 500/590.

Whichever SG you eventually decide on, it should be thoroughly field tested for 100% reliablity with the ammo you intend to use for HD. I would test fire at least 100 rounds before I trusted a SG enough for HD.

mp25ds4
August 7, 2009, 09:54 AM
870 if you have the money, 500 if you want a good gun just not so expensive

neon
August 7, 2009, 02:04 PM
I am not looking for anything fancy, just synthetic stock is fine and shorter barrel.

Take a look at The Pardner Pump..its the cheapest and has good reliability.

gb6491
August 7, 2009, 04:16 PM
We have two:
870 Express Magnum and a Maverick 88 (Mossberg), both work and have given us no problems. We bought each used. The Maverick had some rust on the barrel. It was cleaned up and refinished with some rattle can, shake n bake, ceramic base paint (good stuff). The Remy has a new walnut stock set and a Rem-choke barrel installed; I wouldn't feel under gunned kicking up some quail with it:)
http://i29.tinypic.com/2hsanx5.jpg
Regards,
Greg

jamiejaf
August 15, 2009, 11:33 PM
My two shottys are: The Remington Police Magnum 12 gauge for all round defense and the Dominion Arms Outlaw double barrel 12 gauge, which i use for bear repellant while fishing.
The Outlaw has a 12 inch barrel with a night site front post. It is easy to swing in tight places and fits in my pack with room to spare. :D i'm not sure if its legal where you live
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd156/littlewilbur/P8150126.jpg

Shpadoinkel
August 16, 2009, 08:57 AM
Before you make a decision, do yourself a favor and look into the Pardner brand (made by H&R). I was in the exact situation you are in about a month ago and I was between an 870 and a Mossy. Someone suggested the Pardner Protector (an 870 clone w/ 18.5” barrel) so I did a TON of research. All reviews suggested that the Protector, for that matter the entire Pardner line, was built better than the 870 Express, from build quality to reliability. Not to mention the Protector was a good $150 less than the Express… it made the decision pretty easy.

I have absolutely no problem with the 870 or the Mossy, you get one of those and you won’t regret it either. But in your $400 price range, you can actually get 2 shotty’s (one for HD, one for range) if you go with Pardner. You might be the type of person that likes a double-duty gun, if that’s the case, I would recommend a non-Express 870 with 2 barrels. If you like the idea of having two special purpose guns for the price (or less) of a double-duty gun, check out Pardner.

For home defense, I got a new Pardner Protector with a Knoxx stock (for my wife to take off a considerable amount of recoil and for her shorter LOP) and I am still about $40 under a new 870 Express. And as a bonus I don’t have to buy a short barrel or worry about extraction issues.

But with 870, Mossy, Benelli, Pardner… you can’t go wrong. They all go boom.

Kmar40
August 16, 2009, 03:27 PM
The difference between buying a real shotgun (even an Express or M500 will last a lifetime for 99.9% of the shooters out therre) and one of those pieces of Chinese junkmetal is basically the cost of a meal or two at a cheap fast food place.

I can't believe you guys would choose Chinese arms. They are known throughout the world as the poorest quality and only slightly better than those things that Afghans produce in their bike shops.

I guess since there was a market for Hipoints and Ravens, I shouldn't be surprised that people by these Chinese guns also.

INMY01TA
August 16, 2009, 04:44 PM
I bought the Maverick 88 new with the 18.5' barrel and bought a 2nd 28' barrel for sporting purposes. Still spent under $300, very happy.

Shpadoinkel
August 16, 2009, 05:45 PM
I’m as “BUY AMERKIN’!” as the next guy, but I would hardly consider a gun Chinese junk when it’s machined under strict H&R specifications then shipped to and assembled in the good ol’ US of A… by Americans. I’m all for buying American when I can, but not when it takes more money out of my pocket than necessary for a lower quality product.

Your comments lead me to believe you haven’t researched the very product you are disparaging, and based on those same comments I’m quite certain you have no personal experience with one.

Humor me, google “Remington 870, failure to extract”.
Now, use the vastness of the internet to find a problem with a Pardner that is even remotely as note-worthy (or detrimental in an HD situation).

The exceptional build quality of the Pardner has been commented on by professional firearms reviewers. Better finish, stronger metal, better trigger guard, no FTE issues and $150 less than the gun it was based on.

You don’t want it, fine. Don’t get it.
But when someone is asking for opinions, dismissing another person’s suggestion based solely on your bias does little to help the original poster. You can read thread after thread on this forum and others about people putting 1,000’s of rounds through their Pardner without one FTE or FTF. I have yet to read a thread where someone has an actual operational issue with a Pardner, only negatives I ever hear are “Keep your money in America, blah, blah, blah”.
The reason you are seeing it suggested as a viable option from multiple people is because those of us that have them are very happy with the decision we made and think others should consider them as well.

hogdogs
August 16, 2009, 05:52 PM
I bet a buck that yer wrong.. the box is sealed and says made in china. Typical printing of typical junk. Assembled by americans must mean you put the barrel on yerself like I do a mossberg?
I wouldn't own the chinese JUNK since not all parts are 100% available from multiple sources. Say we decide or they decide to severe ties... NO MO WORKY when broken... Ever wonder why we will not buy arms as a military unless they have a plant in the USA to make them... tactical reliability!;)
Brent

MLeake
August 16, 2009, 06:03 PM
... will often mean things will cost more, because we don't allow sweatshop labor, and we don't pay workers $20/month.

When it comes to vehicles, I'm very pro-American. I like my big 4x4, and am willing to pay the associated costs. I used to ride a Harley, when I rode.

However, for firearms I'm motivated less by cost savings and more by ergonomics. My handguns are a mix of American (all my revolvers) and mostly European (my semi-autos, most of which are SIG or CZ). I like the ergos of the 1911, but have had bad luck with feed and ejection in the past. My rifles and shotguns are mostly US made, with the exception of my BAR, but I've always wanted a BAR. I may eventually get a Browning or Beretta O/U, too; Ruger makes some nice ones, but there's just something poetic about the lines of a 686 or Citori.

But generally, for comparable quality you will probably pay more for American firearms. I think, when ergonomics, accuracy, and reliability will support the choice, it's worth it to spend the extra cash.

And when it comes to Chinese products, I buy those only when I can't find anything else. (Bit of veer, but have you ever tried to find belts or boots that are NOT made in China? I've had to order my belts from holster makers, and my boots from Lucchese.... sometimes it's really hard to find American products to buy.)

SoilworK777
August 16, 2009, 06:05 PM
I own the Hawk 982 (same maker as the Protector) and it's an excellent gun. If you poop on it why not Benelli, Beretta, or any other non-us made guns?

Kmar40
August 16, 2009, 07:00 PM
I guess this is directed at me. I didn't say I don't buy foreign. In fact, if you check my previous posts you will see that I have the gamut from HK to Rossi.

I'm also a big H&R/NEF fan. My first gun was an H&R.

What I said is I wouldn't buy Chinese junk, especially when the price point is just a few bucks less than a Mossberg or Remington.


The exceptional build quality of the Pardner has been commented on by professional firearms reviewers. Better finish, stronger metal, better trigger guard, no FTE issues and Pls show me a link to these articles.

BTW wasn't the 870 Express problem a bad batch of cast Chinese extractors? Why would you want the entire gun made hit or miss components?
$150 less than the gun it was based on.Not possible unless you have some great supplier I don't know about. I see Remington Expresses for about $250. I've never seen one of those Chinese guns for $100.

Shpadoinkel
August 16, 2009, 07:45 PM
It wasn’t to you specifically, just anyone that snubs their nose at a recommendation in a recommendation topic without saying why the gun shouldn’t be an option other than where some parts of the gun were made. Comes up in just about any topic the Pardner is mentioned (on this forum and others). And I still have yet to see a valid reason to stay away from this brand.

Regarding the reviews, I’ll try to dig them up. I found a couple about a month or two ago but it took some intense googling (the first 20+ pages were just forum posts and reviews). I’ll look tomorrow.

In my area, I couldn’t find an 870 Express for less than $350, and I an Express with a 18” barrel wasn’t even an option. I guess I could have maybe special ordered one but that would certainly have been over $350. I know it fluctuates across the country, but for me it was a $350 Express or a $200 Protector. Since my wife may need to use it in an HD situation if I’m not around, I knew before purchase I wanted a Knoxx SpecOps stock (for recoil-reduction for her as well as adjustable LOP). So after it’s all said and done, I have a Knoxx on my Protector and I’m still about $40 from the local purchase price of an 870 Express.

Regarding the 870 Extractor issues, you are the first I have heard mention it was a cheap Chinese part causing the problem (link?). I was under the impression that 870’s were 100% American-made (otherwise why aren’t anti-Pardners crying foul over Remington using Chinese parts). I also don’t know why the Pardner wouldn’t have those same issues if they are made in the same country by the same sub-par workers.

And not to keep anyone up at night, but H&R is a subsidiary of Remington, who is wholly owned by Cerberus. So I don’t think you are keeping too much more money in the US by buying the 870 than I am buying the Pardner (again, not you specifically Kmar40). And I don't think they're going anywhere anytime soon, they're money-makers (otherwise Remington would kill them).

To each their own, people like what they like. I just ask that a gun doesn't get dismissed because of the country it was machined (not even assembled) in.

Shpadoinkel
August 16, 2009, 07:48 PM
On a side note:
I apologize to the topic creator for this getting so off point. I should have known better than to mention the Pardner. It ruins every recommendation topic it's in by devolving it into an anti-Chinese thread.

Kmar40
August 16, 2009, 08:05 PM
I think many of the parts are foreign. And plenty of Remingtons guns are completely foreign, such as Baikal SPRs and the 98 and 99 Mausers. I'm sure there are others. FWIW, Russians, Turks, and Czechs make some decent guns. Chinese, not so much. That's the point, I want as little Chinese in my gun as possible and PP, Hawks and Dalys things are 100%.

In my area, I couldn’t find an 870 Express for less than $350, Walmarts have Expresses for 250 and a Mossberg 500 for 209. Big 5 matches their prices. I know that Mossberg Maverick is cheaper still but I haven't paid attention. I also tend not to pay any attention to the Chinese things (Charles Daly and PP at Wallie) except to note that I wouldn't be saving much.

Anyway, happy hunting to all.

younggun85
August 20, 2009, 05:44 PM
I don't know where the hate on chinese firearms comes from in all honesty. I own 3, a .22 pistol, a m14 and a 870 clone with a 12.5 inch barrel. I probably have 5000 shells thru the 870 with only bore cleaning and have yet to have any issues. I find the fit and finish to be as good as any modern remington 870. There is no comparison to my old wingmaster but thats a gun from an different era of manufacturing. Theres a reason why custom builders include norinco on their list of suitable companies to base a build on. It's because the steel is often SUPERIOR because they use higher grades than most companies are willing to use due to the wear on the tooling equipment. I'm not a fan of commies but i sure like their guns.

Lee Lapin
August 20, 2009, 06:03 PM
cincy,

Before you spend your own money, get some trigger time with various makes/models. If you don't have family/friends/co-workers with pump shotguns who will take you out to try them, look for gun clubs or ranges with rental guns. Handling different makes/models at a well-stocked firearms dealer will help some, but is no substitute for actually shooting them.

Once you get some hands-on shooting experience, you'll be in a better position to make a decision than if you only listened to advice/argument on the 'net...

Happy shopping,

lpl

cincygunner
August 20, 2009, 06:06 PM
Well I made the decision and decided on the Mossberg 500 Persuader model. It's just the base model 500 with synthetic stock and foregrip and 18" barrel.

Decided on the Mossberg because of the options available, There are a crap load of barrels, stocks, spare parts, and all accessories readily available anywhere for the gun.

Too bad none of the local Wal-Marts carry guns around me. I tried Bass Pro Shop and Dick's also but they only had guns with longer barrels. I had to have my local gun shop order me one last week and it arrived yesterday. $270 plus tax not a bad deal.

Thanks for all the input.

wnycollector
August 20, 2009, 06:28 PM
Another vote for the maverick 88. Mine has been flawless over the past two years.

I will say that, my father-in-law bought his GF a youth 20ga NEF for HD duty back when I got my maverick. she is not a gun person but she LOVES her NEF and has put several hundred rounds through it thus far!