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Housezealot
July 24, 2009, 01:04 PM
The other day my boss asked me to take the company lawn mower over to a place we do buisness with and mow their lawn. I was happy to do so as it got me out of the office for a few hours. The property I was mowing had a lot of pine trees were the grass was thin below and I was kicking up a lot of dust.
as I was loading the mower a woman came out of the building screaming that her car had got dusty (not damaged mind you, and barely dusty considering it was a black car) I appolagized and explained to her politely that the dust was behond my control but if I mowed there again I would knock and let her know so she could move her car.
she then exlaimed "you don't know who your messing with" and pulled out a little can of mace!
I was blown away, I was actually hoping she was going to mace me at that point, I would loved to see her explain to the police that she sprayed me for getting her car dusty.
and no I didn't call the police over the threat, I know I should have but my boss didn't want to make waves with the company as we do quite a bit of buisness with them.
oh yeah speaking of "you don't know who your messing with" I wonder how quick she would have been to pull that mace if she knew I was carrying a pistol?

ZeSpectre
July 24, 2009, 01:06 PM
While I understand that you are venting about a frustrating incident, you may want to reconsider what you posted. While you may not have intended it, the implication is that you'd pull a gun on someone threatening you with mace just to win a p*ssing match. Not a great thing to post on a public forum.

Housezealot
July 24, 2009, 01:25 PM
I infact did not pull my gun and never had any intention of doing so.
I am definetly not implying I would have pulled my gun or even considered
such a thing, I want to make that very clear. I'm just pointing out what a stupid move her actions were.
I'm sure there is a lot of idiots out there that would have though

Donn_N
July 24, 2009, 01:30 PM
While I understand that you are venting about a frustrating incident, you may want to reconsider what you posted. While you may not have intended it, the implication is that you'd pull a gun on someone threatening you with mace just to win a p*ssing match. Not a great thing to post on a public forum.


That was not the impression I received from the post at all. The OP was merely wondering if she would have been so brazenly threatening if she had known he was armed with a pistol.

freakshow10mm
July 24, 2009, 01:31 PM
While I understand that you are venting about a frustrating incident, you may want to reconsider what you posted. While you may not have intended it, the implication is that you'd pull a gun on someone threatening you with mace just to win a p*ssing match. Not a great thing to post on a public forum.
I didn't get any indication that the OP was willing to use the pistol. You must be alone.

csmsss
July 24, 2009, 02:01 PM
I try not to speculate about how others would behave if they knew I was armed (versus assuming I am unarmed). When all is said and done, it's really irrelevant - people behave however they behave, and I act and react accordingly (of course, I do my utmost to avoid any behavior which someone else might find confrontational).

Doc Intrepid
July 24, 2009, 02:05 PM
The world is full of dumbasses.

You should have maced her! :D

("Mace unto others before they mace unto you...")

cracked91
July 24, 2009, 02:05 PM
I bet if you were open carrying she would not even have confronted you. Not saying subtle intimidation is a good thing, but 95% of the peope out there who are looking for someone to mess with are going to pick someone without a pistol on their hip.

ZeSpectre
July 24, 2009, 02:08 PM
oh yeah speaking of "you don't know who your messing with" I wonder how quick she would have been to pull that mace if she knew I was carrying a pistol?

Well it sounded like one-upmanship to me but apparently I'm the only one so I will simply apologize and let it be.

Sorry.

TJH3781
July 24, 2009, 02:15 PM
Gun, Knife, Mace; Still an Aggravated Assault in most jurisdictions.

Housezealot
July 24, 2009, 03:23 PM
Zespectre,
I suppose if my post wasn't read carefully you could have got that opinion from the title, I simply thought it was ironic that she would declare that I didn't know who I was messin with becuse she had mace.
I'm actually glad you pointed it out so I could clarify

scottaschultz
July 24, 2009, 03:28 PM
I was blown away, I was actually hoping she was going to mace me at that point...Why? So you would have an excuse to use your gun on her??

Why do we encourage people to carry a weapon in the first place? To empower them! One of the most common things seen on these forums is, "I am not going to be a victim."

There are also a lot of "My wife is afraid of guns" topics and one of the most common answers is that if someone is either not physically capable of handling a gun or is not comfortable with the possibility of killing someone, then the should at least carry can can of pepper spray or mace. The whole idea is to stop an attacker and she was more than ready to do so.

You posed a threat to her. She doesn't know what a fine upstanding law-abiding citizen you are. She did exactly the right thing. You are just lucky she backed off.

To finish off with your sentence I started with: ...I would loved to see her explain to the police that she sprayed me for getting her car dusty.Maybe she is one of these people who was willing to take her chances and "would rather be tried by twelve than carried by six" as so many here say!

Scott

Housezealot
July 24, 2009, 03:31 PM
how did I pose a threat to her? I was nothing but polite even after she threatend to mace me.
I think you answered your own question, I would like to have seen her face legal consequences of having maced someone over nothing.
I'll ask again what threat did I pose? she came running out screaming at me, had she aproached me rationaly I may have even given her a couple bucks to get her car washed.

Brian Pfleuger
July 24, 2009, 03:34 PM
I've got to say, Scott, you pretty much invented that entire interpretation out of thin air. No justification for your response whatsoever.

You posed a threat to her.

How? By mowing the lawn?

Quote:
I was blown away, I was actually hoping she was going to mace me at that point...
Why? So you would have an excuse to use your gun on her??

No, he explained why:

I would loved to see her explain to the police that she sprayed me for getting her car dusty.

Step back a little and READ, people. Not "read between the lines" read THE LINES... you know, what the guy actually said?

Housezealot
July 24, 2009, 03:36 PM
I want to apologize to every one for getting there hackles up.
I did not post this trying to start an argument (but thanks to everybody that saw it from my point of view anyhow:p)

Daugherty16
July 24, 2009, 03:38 PM
Why do we encourage people to carry a weapon in the first place? To empower them! One of the most common things seen on these forums is, "I am not going to be a victim."

There are also a lot of "My wife is afraid of guns" topics and one of the most common answers is that if someone is either not physically capable of handling a gun or is not comfortable with the possibility of killing someone, then the should at least carry can can of pepper spray or mace. The whole idea is to stop an attacker and she was more than ready to do so.

Scott: I submit that you have this backwards. She was brandishing a weapon in the absence of a threat, aside from the dusty car. She was not being attacked but rather was threatening the OP as if he were attacking her. Behavior like that with a gun is illegal, stupid, and dangerous, and even the hotheads who post and posture on these pages generally know you shouldn't brandish.

The irony is obvious, and i think the story is kind of funny (since the OP didn't actually get maced - it sucks, big time) and she didn't have to go to jail for assaulting him. Geez, i know he should have mowed the grass more carefully and all but...

rampage841512
July 24, 2009, 03:40 PM
I would have called the police, and done everything in my power to see her prosecuted. Not making waves for the boss ends when someone threatens me.

scottaschultz
July 24, 2009, 03:41 PM
How did you pose a threat to her? She doesn't know you from Adam and you got her car dirty. She had no way of knowing that you work for your family business (see, I do read other posts!) and was just doing what your boss (most likely a relative) asked you to do. To her, you were probably just some punk kid cutting grass.

Did she go a little too far? Absolutely. But we do tell people to be situationally aware and maybe, just maybe, the fact that you disrespected her property made the little hairs on the back of her neck stand up and she took action.

You know you weren't doing anything wrong, but she didn't. Maybe she had a bad experience in the past which may be why she had the mace in the first place.

Just because you carry a gun doesn't always make you right!

Scott

Tucker 1371
July 24, 2009, 03:43 PM
Maybe she is one of these people who was willing to take her chances and "would rather be tried by twelve than carried by six" as so many here say!

Uhh... we're talking about dust on a car here... I can fix that with a hose and a rag for free.

The whole "you don't know who you're messin' with" bit is neither here nor there. The fact is that she overreacted in a big way. I'm thankful that mace is all she's carrying, if she had a gun she would be a PR disaster for gun owners waiting to happen.

Edit: I would have called the police, and done everything in my power to see her prosecuted. Not making waves for the boss ends when someone threatens me.


+1

Housezealot
July 24, 2009, 03:43 PM
scott, I think you may just be the devils advocate my friend.:D
and as for the post your refering to she definetly would have had reason to be concerned then. got to tip my hat you there, glad those two things didn;t occur on the same day!

Brian Pfleuger
July 24, 2009, 03:45 PM
How did you pose a threat to her? She doesn't know you from Adam and you got her car dirty. She had no way of knowing that you work for your family business (see, I do read other posts!) and was just doing what your boss (most likely a relative) asked you to do. To her, you were probably just some punk kid cutting grass.

What world do you live in that such a thing could be considered a threat? I'm usually pretty soft spoken and gentle about things but you're just being ridiculous.

scottaschultz
July 24, 2009, 03:48 PM
scott, I think you may just be the devils advocate my friend.
Well for some of you (I think most of you) here who have read my posts on TFL, that's my job. My whole point was that it is possible, gun ownership aside, that we are not always the one who feels threatened. Obviously she never had the benefit a CCW class or she would have known about brandishing.

It is not up to us to tell make that judgement call for her and determine what is a threat and what isn't.

Bless her heart and I bet you don't mess with her again! Maybe you should go over there in proper business attire with some sort of peace offering from your company?

And for peetzakilla:
What world do you live in that such a thing could be considered a threat? In my world, that isn't a very serious offense, but you have no way of knowing what this woman has gone through in the past. Just because you wouldn't feel threatened, you can not make that judgement call for someone else. Obviously she carries mace for a reason and you don't know what that reason is, do you? Its that whole "Walk a mile in their shoes" thing and you don't know that woman from Eve!

Scott

Brian Pfleuger
July 24, 2009, 03:52 PM
It is not up to us to tell make that judgement call for her and determine what is a threat and what isn't.

Yes, it really is, or at least it certainly can be. Any given person can't just decide that any given thing is a threat to them. That is completely nonsensical. A dirty car is not a threat in ANY WORLD. I don't care if she thinks it is or not. If she does, she's WRONG.


In my world, that isn't a very serious offense, but you have no way of knowing what this woman has gone through in the past.
There is no excuse that could cause a dirty car to be a threat. NONE. ZERO. NADA. Her past is irrelevant. Some things can NOT be justified, regardless.


Threat:
menace: something that is a source of danger; "earthquakes are a constant threat in Japan"
a warning that something unpleasant is imminent; "they were under threat of arrest"
declaration of an intention or a determination to inflict harm on another; "his threat to kill me was quite explicit"
terror: a person who inspires fear or dread; "he was the terror of the neighborhood"

Threaten:
threaten - endanger: pose a threat to; present a danger to; "The pollution is endangering the crops"
threaten - to utter intentions of injury or punishment against:"He threatened me when I tried to call the police"
threaten - to be a menacing indication of something:"The clouds threaten rain"; "Danger threatens"

jhk94
July 24, 2009, 03:58 PM
she wouldn't have run out of her house to confront a strange man. If I'm in my house and there is someone outside it that I feel threatened by...I call the cops. Only once they start coming into my house (or, in this case, even enter my property), thats when I take action personally.

cracked91
July 24, 2009, 04:03 PM
How did you pose a threat to her? She doesn't know you from Adam and you got her car dirty.

You could take a leak on her hood and it still would not be posing a physical threat. Granted, that would not be a fun place to get maced:D

scottaschultz
July 24, 2009, 04:04 PM
From me: It is not up to us to tell make that judgement call for her and determine what is a threat and what isn't.

From peetzakilla: Yes, it really is, or at least it certainly can be.

No, its not! I added the "Walk a mile in their shoes" part after you made your reply. Everyone's life experience is different. You're a rough tough guy who carries a piece and ain't afraid of nuthin', but you simply can not apply your standard of threat universally.

What if she had been raped at some time in the past? Pretty much, all men are a threat at that point. So here is this guy in jeans (he wears jeans at work, he said so in another post) who is all dirty from the dust and approaches her.

If she had maced the OP and he did press charges, she probably would have lost. I agree with that. She was wrong but she was willing to take the chance of being wrong and alive than to be a victim... possibly again.

Scott

markj
July 24, 2009, 04:12 PM
Wow, a simple event turns into a huge thread. Just re inforces my opinion that there are a lot of whack jobs out there.

Pulled a can of mace? Time to get the corn chips out :) makes a good dip.

Some folks care about their property in a very un normal fashion, these people are to be left alone and ignored as much as possible. They will scurry off to the nearest car wash and once again return to the happiness only a clean car can give.

I would have offered her 5 bucks so she could get the thing washed and forgot about the entire incident.

Tucker 1371
July 24, 2009, 04:13 PM
You could pay a few punk-arse neighbor kids $5 each to go egg her car... not that I'm recommending that ;) :D but it is an option

Mr. James
July 24, 2009, 04:15 PM
I'm looking for the smilies here. If she had been raped, why the hell would she approach and threaten (yes, threaten) the big bad would-be rapist (er, that would be hot, dusty, sweaty Housezealot, who was probably thinking about that first cold beverage). Housezealot wasn't blocking access to her vehicle, as nearly as can be determined; more than that, she was inside a building, the safety and comfort of which she chose to abandon specifically to confront him. This is silliness. Housezealot "threatened" this woman like Poland "threatened" Germany.

The wench is lucky she didn't get maced for her trouble.

cracked91
July 24, 2009, 04:15 PM
What if she had been raped at some time in the past? Pretty much, all men are a threat at that point. So here is this guy in jeans (he wears jeans at work, he said so in another post) who is all dirty from the dust and approaches her.


Wrong. He did not approach her, she approached him, making her the aggressor in the first place.

So this woman who is traumatized from being raped is going to approach a man mowing the lawn and stick a can of mace in his face? No.

This lady was way out of line no matter how you look at it.

Composer_1777
July 24, 2009, 04:18 PM
If I got maced I would def call the police, file charges; plus file civil lawsuit. Dumb b**ch. I would not, however, pull a gun on a woman unless she pulled on me.

scottaschultz
July 24, 2009, 04:25 PM
OK, I will admit that I am just guessing when it comes to this woman's motivations, just like everyone else. She might have had a bad experience in the past and she definitely didn't like what Housezealot did to her car. Maybe she is just some whacked out looney tunes who shouldn't be out in public in the first place. Who knows?

I will sit back and patiently wait for the next scenario... and there will be a next scenario. This is TFL after all!

Scott

Eskimo
July 24, 2009, 04:25 PM
OHMYGOD this thread is a complete waste of time.

TailGator
July 24, 2009, 04:33 PM
Scottaschultz, I don't mean to pile on, but Housezealot mowed a lawn, nothing else. He did not threaten or even approach the woman. She objected to him mowing the lawn when she had her car parked outside and threatened him with her mace.

I don't need permission from the neighbors to mow my lawn, and I don't expect them to object in any way (if it is a decent hour) and certainly not to threaten me over it. And if I hire someone else to mow my lawn, that is still my business.

Housezealot restrained himself, apologized as far as was possible with such an unreasonable person, and de-escalated the situation. It was his option whether to call the police or not, and he elected to be nice to the woman who was extremely rude and threatening - probably to the point of it being a criminal violation. Someone really needs to talk to the woman, but Housezealot probably is not in a position to be the one.

Such an inappropriate response may be cause for a mental health evaluation, so if HZ is in contact with someone who can approach her, great. Otherwise it is over.

Housezealot
July 24, 2009, 04:33 PM
like I said there was no thought of drawing down on her, the fact that I was armed didn't even occur to me untill much later, I never really felt threatened, years ago I was standing next to a guy who's girlfriend maced him (over a verbal argument actually) and the little that hit me wasn't that bad, also like many of us here I had the privilage of the CS tent in basic training and even that wasn't near as bad as people think.
now if it had been a couple of big guys that could have maced me, got the best of me and I had no avenue of escape (I have two artificial hips so no ninja flips or wall scaling for me) I definetly would have remebered I was armed.
but more than anything I presented my story becuse I thought it was a good example that you never know what kind of nut you will run into

MLeake
July 24, 2009, 04:37 PM
Where did you get that she felt threatened, and was defending herself? The woman approached the OP, not vice versa. The OP apologized for the dust on the car, and offered to give the woman a heads up prior to mowing the next time.

Considering that to be threatening behavior on the OP's part is going beyond the pale, for useful devil's advocate.

Unless the OP is leaving out some major detail, the woman was totally in the wrong. Also, in your first post, you deliberately broke one of the OP's statements into two parts just so you could make a snide remark about his motivations, which were then eventually refuted by the second portion of his statement only after you tossed in a couple paragraphs excoriating the OP for an intent THAT WAS CLEARLY NOT IN EVIDENCE.

Seriously, that's not devil's advocate, that's almost defamatory.

scottaschultz
July 24, 2009, 04:45 PM
Where did you get that she felt threatened, and was defending herself?Maybe from the fact that she came up to him with a can of mace and said, "You don't know who you are messin' with!" I will agree that she probably wasn't defending herself but rather being the aggressor.

Sheesh! Someone needs to switch to decaf... and maybe its me!

If you have an interesting experience and don't really care about what people think about it, then DON'T POST IT ON THE INTERNET!

Next case!

Scott

MLeake
July 24, 2009, 04:46 PM
Selectively quoting somebody in order to support theory or facts not in evidence is something else entirely.

Housezealot
July 24, 2009, 04:47 PM
Selectively quoting somebody in order to support theory or facts not in evidence is something else entirely.
it's called politics isn't it?;)
or mabey mainstream journalism.
speaking of which, scott, I swear I went to broadcasting school with a scott that seemed to play devils advocate exactly like you. if you lived in michigan I would swear you were him

stargazer65
July 24, 2009, 04:53 PM
I have to say, this thread made my day.:D I'm sorry if it was meant to be serious, but the direction it went with all the misunderstanding just made me bust a gut! I don't know if I can watch anyone mow the lawn with a straight face right now.

scottaschultz
July 24, 2009, 04:53 PM
No, I got my degree in Telecommunications (the fancy word for broadcasting) from Indiana University... a long time ago!

Scott

Housezealot
July 24, 2009, 04:56 PM
man I called that one! well... sorta:p

scottaschultz
July 24, 2009, 04:59 PM
Of course I don't do anything even closely related to broadcasting any more. Like so many things in the past, "It was a good idea at the time!"

Hey, its the Internet. No one takes this place seriously!

Scott

maestro pistolero
July 24, 2009, 05:07 PM
Quote:
How did you pose a threat to her? She doesn't know you from Adam and you got her car dirty. She had no way of knowing that you work for your family business (see, I do read other posts!) and was just doing what your boss (most likely a relative) asked you to do. To her, you were probably just some punk kid cutting grass.

If someone breaks into my back yard to mow the lawn, I'm getting them a glass of iced tea, and don't try to stop me.

scottaschultz
July 24, 2009, 05:13 PM
I'm from St. Louis. Make it a Budweiser and you have a deal!

Scott

stargazer65
July 24, 2009, 05:20 PM
I'm from St. Louis. Make it a Budweiser and you have a deal!

Scott, I'll but you any drink you want if you mow my lawn. The key to the mower is on the right side of door, just make sure you call to let me know you're mowing, so I don't accidently mace you.:D

scottaschultz
July 24, 2009, 05:28 PM
If its a big lawn, I might send my grand daughter. Here is a shot of grandpa showing her how to drive the mighty JD!

http://i676.photobucket.com/albums/vv124/scottaschultz/IM000122.jpg

She is only 13, so she'll have the tea!
Oh, I took the radio off and now wear an iPod.

Scott

Brian Pfleuger
July 24, 2009, 05:29 PM
No, its not! I added the "Walk a mile in their shoes" part after you made your reply. Everyone's life experience is different. You're a rough tough guy who carries a piece and ain't afraid of nuthin', but you simply can not apply your standard of threat universally.

No, I can't. A court can, however. So, you find me a court decision wherein a dirty car was found to constitute a threat to someone.

You won't find it. You can't find it. A dirty car is not a threat. SHE was the threat. She illegally threatened an innocent man with a can of mace.

Her past is irrelevant. There is not and can not be any justification for a dirty car, or a guy mowing a lawn, being considered a threat.

She is WRONG. I don't care why she thinks she's right. SHE IS WRONG and I would have pressed charges to make sure she knew it.

scottaschultz
July 24, 2009, 05:32 PM
Peetzakilla, OK, I get it. I think most of us put this behind us some time ago!

Scott

Housezealot
July 24, 2009, 05:33 PM
She illegally threatened an innocent man with a can of mace.

Innocent? well to be honest I did do a shoddy job of the weed whipping behind the car port.;)

pax
July 24, 2009, 05:47 PM
Glad we got this one settled.

:D :rolleyes: :D

pax