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rickdavis81
July 16, 2009, 03:55 AM
A woman I work with was shot in the head at her home today. A couple of months ago two teenage girls were stabbed to death by another teenage boy. This stuff never used to happen in my small town. Now it's a daily occurrence it seems. We were talking about the lady at work tonight and someone brung up the two girls and I realized I had already forgotten about them due to all the other tradgedies. Makes me remember why I carry everday and everywhere.
I also lost 2 friends to a car accident 4 months ago. And had another friend loose 2 kids to a house fire while they were at work with me.

Brian Pfleuger
July 16, 2009, 08:41 AM
Sometimes it just all happens at once. Your town will probably go ten years without another incident.

Philo_Beddoe
July 16, 2009, 08:55 AM
As long as this economic slow down continues I expect crime and violence to continue to go up.

As people lose their jobs and suffer under crushing economic conditions some will not be able to manage the stress and turn to deviant behavior.

Also law enforcement cuts back too.

Police departments might trim patrols to save on fuel costs or overtime, or store owners might eliminate security guard jobs or skip buying surveillance cameras because they need to save money during a recession.

McCrie said crime escalated in cities in the 1960s and 1970s because police were underfunded. In New York City, he said, Mayor David Dinkins appealed for greater police funding. Combined with changes in enforcement Mayor Rudy Giuliani made later, the tide changed in the city.

http://hamptonroads.com/2009/01/statistics-point-increase-crime-during-recessions

BlueTrain
July 16, 2009, 09:13 AM
Just how big is this small town?

One of the problems with the discussion of things like this is that everything is changing all the time and it is difficult to isolate the causes and effects. It's true that some things cause problems but sometimes there are problems happen in spite of something rather than because of it. I don't know that there was any more violence in the 1930s generally (during the depression) than there had been in other decades. Another cause and effect relationship sometimes mentioned is that overcrowding in the cities is a cause of crime and violence, yet in the last 20 years cities have been losing population, as have some states or parts of states, without necessarily a reduction in crime.

And deviant behavior is whatever you want to say it is. But has there been a dramatic rise in crime in violence in the last six months compared with the same period last year? Or do you just assume there has been. And should store owners have to hire security guards at all?

Philo_Beddoe
July 16, 2009, 09:25 AM
Crime very much increases during economic slow downs, alot of crime is based on stress and economic stress is a very real stressor.

Here is a graph showing the homicide rate.

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=49677&stc=1&d=1247844230


As you can see homicides rates increased during times of economic hardship and decreased when economic times were good (post ww 2 boom and great economy during dot com boom)

rshanneck2002
July 17, 2009, 05:57 AM
small towns are alot different today.i have seen huge increases of big city crimanals moving to small towns lately to hide their shady operations for at least a temporary amount of time,especially involving crack and meth.they befriend a local and within 30 days they own thier home lock stock and barrell at the point of a gun,threatening also their family and loved ones with said violence,when either busted or the local heat gets on them they move to the next place. i heard it just happened to a guy i worked with a few yrs back,4 miles outside a little burg of 500-600 people,they set up shop,took over his home,well you know the story.nope small towns aint what they used to be,mayberrys gone!

rickdavis81
July 17, 2009, 06:25 AM
8000 people. And it's still to big for me. There are alot of meth heads in small towns anymore. Easier to hide out in the sticks.

neon
July 17, 2009, 12:51 PM
I think with the way the economy is going we will see
a rise in crime.

Bud Helms
July 17, 2009, 03:13 PM
Small towns are no longer a place to get away from crime. The presence of urban based gangs and the incident of drug usage (if not dealing) by young people is on the rise in small town America and has been for the last ten years and more.

One aspect of this I've tried to pay attention to here in rural GA, is the incidence of gun crimes. "Tried to pay attention to" not only ends in a preposition ;), but is a very unscientific study method, I know. However, I don't hear, or read, about the incident of crimes involving the usage or possession of firearms increasing as much as the incidence of crime in general.

Up in the big city, Atlanta, that is not true.

I should probably go find some stats to support this contention ...

akr
July 17, 2009, 03:22 PM
Be courteous to those who don't deserve it, and leave your middle finger at home. These are not the days of just getting knocked down. These are the days of gunfire.

bdturner
July 17, 2009, 04:43 PM
I grew up in a small town in eastern NC in the 60's, 70's and early 80's. Our town had about 900 citizens. Sort of a Mayberry kind of place where everybody knew everybody. We had one policeman to keep us safe. The sheriff's deputies went home at midnight. We didn't have yellow pages we just had a yellow page. Back then we slept with our windows open at night in the summer we would however hook our screen doors. We never gave criminals a second thought because that was something that happened in New York or California. We grew up without e-mail, cell phones, ipods, video games, internet, guns with warning lables carved into the barrels, microwaves, flat screens and 500 digital channels... the list goes on and on. It seems for all we have these days we have very little of nothing.

skydiver3346
July 17, 2009, 05:21 PM
:(
What has happened to us when we have to cower, conceal and hide your middle finger (when someone ticks you off). Let's just be courteous to those scum bags who insult you? What do you deserve, no respect? Don't you deserve honest and decency from the low lifes of the world? Sooner or later you have to stand up for what you believe in, or we are all lost....

Note: That is not to say you have to start something in return for everything that happens to you. Then again, you just can't just walk away from everything either. Depends on each situation.

I have tried to go along with (the middle of the road folks) in the last few weeks, (am still trying too)! But sooner or later, there is only so much you can take. I agree, (initially, you should try and move on and don't start anything that may get out of control). Let them win, is fine with me to a certain degree, but sooner or later, its time to draw the line.

Let me ask a question to anyone who disagrees?

Where do you draw the line? When is, it's gone too far? If the whole nation adopts this philosphy (of cut and run) then we are in deep doo doo as human beings. I personally am getting tired of all the (let's just give them what they want attitude) and move on! What is this teaching our families and kids? What the heck is this country going to be like in 20 years if we keep up this response to aggression? By then, it will be too late to try and correct things. Slowly but surely, we are losing control or our destiny and decency.

Sure, you can say that doing nothing is teaching your family to be safe. This way, you won't be injured/harmed. Yeah right! Maybe it does and then maybe it doesen't. You never know what the dirt bags of the world are going to do to you, (after you give them every thing they want). You are hoping that they just walk away and leave you alone. Maybe the will, and then again, MAYBE THEY WON'T....

Bottom line: Big towns, little towns, unemployment is going through the roof, (crime is too)! So what are you going to do, just take it?? :confused:

Brian Pfleuger
July 17, 2009, 05:40 PM
Let me ask a question to anyone who disagrees?

Where do you draw the line? When is, it's gone too far? If the whole nation adopts this philosphy (of cut and run) then we are in deep doo doo as human beings.

Nope. The problem is the opposite. Most people no longer believe this philosophy. It used to be that if someone was a jerk, acted like an idiot, was dishonest or just annoying then you simply didn't deal with them again.
You took your business elsewhere, you refused to let them do business with you or you simply ignored them.
Sure, there might be a fist fight every now and again, but these were for "real" issues, not some jerk cutting you off in traffic.
We are in deep doo-doo as a nation because we can no longer act like civilized people, among other reasons. We can not brush off the smallest indiscretion. Every one has to be sure the other guy "gets theirs" or make sure they aren't "disrespected", and it's nonsense.
When we learn to "turn the other cheek" again, we will be far better off as a nation and as individuals.

Sure, you can say that doing nothing is teaching your family to be safe. This way, you won't be injured/harmed. Yeah right! Maybe it does and then maybe it doesen't. You never know what the dirt bags of the world are going to do to you...

I can not and will not live my life based on what others "might" do to me. I will respond accordingly. Ignoring when appropriate, which is almost ALWAYS, and responding with the appropriate force when necessary. No more, no less. That is how civilized people act.

skydiver3346
July 17, 2009, 08:24 PM
Your quote: "We are in deep doo doo as a nation because we can now longer act like a civilized nations"....... I agree 100% with your comment.

However, you say: "When we learn to turn the other cheek again, we will be far better off as a nation and individuals"..... :o Unfortunately, turning your cheek nowadays, can get you stabbed in the back! I am afraid that we may be too far gone to ever go back to the good old days (as you are referring to) and "turn the other cheek". Sure would be nice if we could. Too many people do not respect authority anymore (or even human life for that matter). :( Where did it all go wrong?

Brian Pfleuger
July 17, 2009, 08:37 PM
Unfortunately, turning your cheek nowadays, can get you stabbed in the back! I am afraid that we may be too far gone to ever go back to the good old days (as you are referring to) and "turn the other cheek". Sure would be nice if we could.

In the context of this thread, the answer to that is what I said above:

Ignoring when appropriate, which is almost ALWAYS, and responding with the appropriate force when necessary. No more, no less. That is how civilized people act.

Edward429451
July 17, 2009, 09:15 PM
Times they are a changin'...I thought small town violence was what happened in haylofts with hillbilly girls.:D

djohn
July 17, 2009, 09:29 PM
Turn the other cheek, I will as I draw my weapon to plant a 45 in the frontal lobe and chest cavity.How about a Eye for an Eye.Bring back the electric chair,Pine oil heaven gas chamber,good old fashion hangings and firing squads O ya almost forgot the Guillotine.:)

Brian Pfleuger
July 17, 2009, 09:35 PM
How about a Eye for an Eye.Bring back the electric chair,Pine oil heaven gas chamber,good old fashion hangings and firing squads O ya almost forgot the Guillotine.

"Eye for an eye" was meant to LIMIT retribution. It was meant to prevent people getting killed for offenses that did not merit such.

The problem we have today is that we want LIFE for an eye, or life for a stereo, as the case may be.

cloud8a
July 18, 2009, 04:15 AM
As far as turning the other cheek goes, well if your are Jesus that might work. Jesus said it is best to try and be perfect. His deciples said in Romans it is best to not marry at all at devote your life to God, but you will not be frowned upon if you choose to marry.

Point being it is best to turn the other cheek, but you will not be frowned upon for stopping a BG from cleaning you out as long as you are following the law of the land.

The law of the land in Texas, Twilight Laws and Castle Doctrines. Would I shoot someone for stealing property from me? No.

But when it comes to BG's and all their garbage I do not believe in taking the path to the least resistance before deadly force.

Just because you put flowers in the barrels of their guns does not mean they won't shoot you.

If you spend all your time trying to avoid the fight at all cost, you are playing an unnatural game. That is why Castle Doctrines are passed, to give you the opportunity to fight if need be. It is easy to construct a perfect nice game in your head, it is another thing to play it.

pax
July 18, 2009, 08:40 AM
cloud8a ~

In that culture and in that time, a slap on the cheek was an insult. Nothing more, nothing less, and nothing else. Jesus was telling His disciples, "If someone insults you, let 'em." It's not worth fighting over an insult.

See http://www.corneredcat.com/Ethics/pacifism.aspx

I'm available to discuss this topic via PM, if anyone's interested. It's not really appropos for the open forum, and is kinda off topic for this particular thread too.

pax

Magi
July 18, 2009, 09:07 AM
Philo_Beddoe, what is the source of that chart?

Kyo
July 18, 2009, 09:10 AM
I will add to what Bud was saying that in GA it does get a little weird sometimes.
I have had people cherry bomb my mail box, knock out every window in the back of my house, people come to the front door and start hitting people. Just stupid stuff.
I know someone personally who just lost someone who got shot to death because the person shooting thought he was someone else because the guy who got shot was wearing the other guy's hat. The other guy was right beside him. The kid was never a gangster, and he was 19, but he did hang out with one without knowing it, and he died for it. Small town or not people are getting out of control. It is very sad.

Brian Pfleuger
July 18, 2009, 09:21 AM
is kinda off topic for this particular thread too.

Maybe so Kathy, but not by much. Two primary reasons why small towns are less safe than they "used to be" are the inability to walk away from an insult and the loss of the "oneness" of the population. Small towns are no longer "communities" in the true sense of the word.

Personally, I think a discussion of personal behavior, being able to take a slap on the cheek as it were, is an important concept in "tactical" behavior.


All that said, small towns in America, or even large cities, are extremely safe, all things considered. Perhaps a discussion of real versus perceived danger would be appropriate somewhere. Not by me though, I've been down that road before.;):)

ATW525
July 18, 2009, 10:45 AM
The direction the thread is taking reminds me of an incident I witnessed recently. The wife and I went down to Concord, NH for 4th of July weeked and while done there we witnessed a pair of cars stopped at a traffic light in front of Thirty Pines Market in Penacook on July 3rd.

They initially caught my attention because the second car in line had a license plate along the lines of "S&W-45". Well, the light turned green and the first car wasn't paying attention, so Mr. S&W honked his horn. That got the first car to move, but not before they replied to the horn honk with some angry hand gestures.

At that point Mr. S&W lost it, gunned the gas and pulled onto the wrong side of the road to pass the first car in the intersection. We gave them plenty of room and watched them stop further up the road and get out of their vehicles like they were going to fight. Thankfully they seemed to decide against it. However, we stayed too far back to see what caused the change of heart.

Anyhow, the whole ridiculous situation could have been avoided if people had been willing to turn the other cheek. Instead the participants decided to escalate things almost to the point of physical confrontation. Mr. S&W's angry display of stupidity put not only himself at risk, but also the lives of people in the oncoming lane (and thanks to his poor choice in vanity plates probably helped to give responsible firearms owners a bad name).

Brian Pfleuger
July 18, 2009, 10:56 AM
Anyhow, the whole ridiculous situation could have been avoided if people had been willing to turn the other cheek. Instead the participants decided to escalate things almost to the point of physical confrontation. Mr. S&W's angry display of stupidity put not only himself at risk, but also the lives of people in the oncoming lane (and thanks to his poor choice in vanity plates probably helped to give responsible firearms owners a bad name).

Exactly. You seriously can't wait 3 seconds for someone to notice a light turned green? You seriously can't ignore a car horn and not respond with inappropriate gestures? You seriously cannot ignore "the bird" and go one with your life? You can't ignore (or just call the cops) when someone passes you like an idiot? You're really going to pull over and get out of your car to fight with someone? (All this, remember, is because of a 3 second delay at a stop light!?)

How many chances does someone need to do the right thing? The answer is that they need unlimited chances, because doing the right thing is not even a consideration in their minds. They are responding with alpha dog stupidity instead of conscious thought. Somehow, someway, they think that it puts them higher on the food chain if they can dominate someone, even someone they've never seen before and will never see again. Truth is, the only food chain they're higher on is the one in their own minds.

This sort of behavior is a big part of why we're at where we're at today. Even so, it is in itself a symptom and not a cause.

hogdogs
July 18, 2009, 01:23 PM
Well i was gonna brag on my local county and tell ya'll the childish "NA-NA-NAA-NAERRR" but it seems ye' ol' hogdogs is facing a recently increased risk of crime. keep in mind that most of said crime occurs "beachside" where a vast majority of both year around residents live as well as the seasonal influx of disrespectful pukes from larger populated cities arrive to "party"...
http://www.fdle.state.fl.us/Content/FSAC/County-Profiles/Walton.aspx
From there, ya'll can peruse the whole breakdown although it doesn't seperate the "south walton" burden from the "real" walton county.
We are faced with a super high number of meth labs and heads due to the high number of remote locations suited to making the crap.
Brent

bikerbill
July 29, 2009, 12:16 PM
I too live in a small town (6k and we just got our first traffic light!) and I tend to pay attention to police reports ... the big crime news here in recent months -- a restaurant was burgled and some idiot was busted growing pot in his garage ... crime is almost a non-issue here, even tho we're just 30 miles or so from a major city ... that doesn't mean I don't have a loaded gun, etc., in my nightstand or that I ever leave the house unarmed ... it only takes one lost crackhead to ruin your day ...

FyredUp
July 29, 2009, 01:41 PM
8,000 is a ssmall town? Really? I live in a small rural village in Wisconsin about 30 miles north of Madison and about 100 miles west of Milwaukee. The population is a whopping 717. We have part-time police officers and about 80 hours of coverage. Otherwise we wait for the sheriff's department. Depending on where their patrol cars are the wait can be anazingly brief or up to 15 minutes or more.

Crime, or at least violent crime is not an issue here...YET. Property crime and obnoxious sh!t head teenagers hanging around are the biggest issues. (Yeah, Yeah, we were all obnoxious sh!t head teenagers hanging around.)

The problems arise from the influx of people from Madison and other larger cities. They have no ties to the community and some have lived here for years and remain virtual strangers. It is like this community is nothing more to them than a place to sleep and keep their stuff. The kids grow bored and restless because they are used to the city entertaining them and here they have to be imaginative or actually get up and do something, ride their bike, play sports, fish in the creek or go to the library. Nothing organized in this community for kids because, well frankly, we didn't need it. We found plenty to do and most kids still do. The greatest curse for this generation is the damn internet, 500 digital channels, xBox, Wii, Nintendo, Play Station, iPods, and cell phones. We don't interact face to face and actually seek ways to not have to. I pity this generation, I really do. Actual communication is becoming a lost art and because of it misunderstandings during communication occur all the time.

Turn the other cheek, as often as I can without compromising my integrity. Fighting over traffic behavior, or someone cutting in line, or saying something stupid? Not likely. Something that petty isn't worth dieing over.

Master Blaster
July 29, 2009, 05:23 PM
What has happened to us when we have to cower, conceal and hide your middle finger (when someone ticks you off). Let's just be courteous to those scum bags who insult you? What do you deserve, no respect? Don't you deserve honest and decency from the low lifes of the world? Sooner or later you have to stand up for what you believe in, or we are all lost....

Note: That is not to say you have to start something in return for everything that happens to you. Then again, you just can't just walk away from everything either. Depends on each situation.


In the olden days a gentleman had his honor to consider. If you flipped me the bird or insulted my momma, or called my wife a fat cow, in public I would have challenged you to a duel. Pistols or swords or both would have been your choice. A duel to the death or if one was wounded the aggreived party might consider his honor satisfied. People were more polite and respectful, then dueling was outlawed what a shame.

Among the lower classes one might have simply pulled a knife or a club and whopped the tar out of the other person. Since there were really no police forces back when you only had to worry aboutthe other person's relatives taking revenge.

Google Alexander Hamilton duel.

Brian Pfleuger
July 29, 2009, 05:28 PM
I too live in a small town (6k and we just got our first traffic light!)
:eek::confused:

Dude, 17 years ago my graduating class was 37 people....

6000 is a small CITY, not a small town...

Ian0351
July 29, 2009, 05:40 PM
In the olden days a gentleman had his honor to consider.

As far as I'm concerned, a gentleman still does... sadly, there are very few of us left. I agree that not every rudeness deserves a fist-fight or a duel, but some things simply are not 'forgive and forget' territory. Then again, this is not necessarily a firearms related issue for me, as the types of things I would respond to 'out of honor' I would not be using a gun for... most likely.

Eskimo
July 29, 2009, 05:57 PM
8,000 is a ssmall town? Really? I live in a small rural village in Wisconsin about 30 miles north of Madison and about 100 miles west of Milwaukee. The population is a whopping 717. We have part-time police officers and about 80 hours of coverage. Otherwise we wait for the sheriff's department. Depending on where their patrol cars are the wait can be anazingly brief or up to 15 minutes or more.

Crime, or at least violent crime is not an issue here...YET. Property crime and obnoxious sh!t head teenagers hanging around are the biggest issues. (Yeah, Yeah, we were all obnoxious sh!t head teenagers hanging around.)

The problems arise from the influx of people from Madison and other larger cities. They have no ties to the community and some have lived here for years and remain virtual strangers. It is like this community is nothing more to them than a place to sleep and keep their stuff. The kids grow bored and restless because they are used to the city entertaining them and here they have to be imaginative or actually get up and do something, ride their bike, play sports, fish in the creek or go to the library. Nothing organized in this community for kids because, well frankly, we didn't need it. We found plenty to do and most kids still do. The greatest curse for this generation is the damn internet, 500 digital channels, xBox, Wii, Nintendo, Play Station, iPods, and cell phones. We don't interact face to face and actually seek ways to not have to. I pity this generation, I really do. Actual communication is becoming a lost art and because of it misunderstandings during communication occur all the time.

Turn the other cheek, as often as I can without compromising my integrity. Fighting over traffic behavior, or someone cutting in line, or saying something stupid? Not likely. Something that petty isn't worth dieing over.

You are 100% right, all these electronics are the curse on my generation (i'm 20). I do use the computer/TV a lot, and I would say I have more conversation over text than actually talking to someone. YES, it does fry your brain in a way; it makes you uninterested and unamused.

One thing some of you older fellows need to understand.. I know that millions of young adults have the same story I do - had no friends, so I began joining chat rooms (full of millions of other kids in my situation).. Pretty soon it's all you want to do. My dad would yell at me about it, telling me to go out and get some real friends, etc.. Last year my parents divorced and my dad began using chat clients to meet new people, and I made the mistake of impersonating him - "YOU NEED TO GO OUT AND MEET PEOPLE IN REAL LIFE". This is the maddest I've ever seen him : D

On the upside, I think something about growing up on the internet has made me more intelligent than I would have been otherwise. I'm definitely a deep thinker and not much a talker, but I wouldn't have it any other way.

My children will never be allowed to use the internet more than a half-hour or so a day, and we won't have any kind of TV programming at all.

Dragon55
July 29, 2009, 06:01 PM
Wow:eek:

""My children will never be allowed to use the internet more than a half-hour or so a day, and we won't have any kind of TV programming at all.""
__________________

I'm sorry but as grandiose as that sounds... it will never happen.

Shucks they'll need 2 hrs of internet just to do their homework.

Eskimo
July 29, 2009, 06:11 PM
Well, it's obviously a different story for homework. A lot of my ideas seem a little extreme to most people.

All the time, I hear people tell me "you just think that now, wait until it happens.." but they never seem to be right. Why base your life on another person's shortcomings?

Edit - that last bit isnt directed towards you at all, Dragon.

Wow

""My children will never be allowed to use the internet more than a half-hour or so a day, and we won't have any kind of TV programming at all.""
__________________

I'm sorry but as grandiose as that sounds... it will never happen.

Shucks they'll need 2 hrs of internet just to do their homework.

Brian Pfleuger
July 29, 2009, 06:40 PM
My children will never be allowed to use the internet more than a half-hour or so a day, and we won't have any kind of TV programming at all.

I fully understand and have great respect for that stance.

Ian0351
July 29, 2009, 07:09 PM
I totally agree with the no tv portion of your position Eskimo. I used to have free cable, and when I got home from work I'd sit down, scroll through 75 channels, finding nothing to watch and settle on something I had seen or didn't care about simply to kill time while I 'decompressed'. Then I moved, the current apt. doesn't provide cable and I certainly won't pay for it, and I am so much happier. For background noise I listen to music, and when I have a couple of hours to kill I take my dog to the river (last apt. didn't allow dogs, but they supplied the tv:eek:). I do, in fact, have a very nice tv I got as a christmas present which I use for video games and movies. However, we are having an exceptionally nice July in western Washington and I can honestly say that I haven't turned it on in weeks... even though I just bought a new playstation game I am very excited about.

As far as the internet goes, I think we're all guilty of overdoing that on occasion:rolleyes:.

orionengnr
July 29, 2009, 08:00 PM
"Eye for an eye" was meant to LIMIT retribution. It was meant to prevent people getting killed for offenses that did not merit such.
The problem we have today is that we want LIFE for an eye, or life for a stereo, as the case may be.

I could not disagree more.

The problem is that we are continually faced with idiot DAs, idiot juries, and idiot judges accepting plea bargains, probation, etc, for serious offenses.

Brian Pfleuger
July 29, 2009, 08:11 PM
I could not disagree more.

The problem is that we are continually faced with idiot DAs, idiot juries, and idiot judges accepting plea bargains, probation, etc, for serious offenses.

I agree with your point. However, that has nothing to do with the origin of the "Eye for an eye" concept. It WAS meant to LIMIT retribution, to prevent people getting killed because they stole a donkey, for example, or getting an arm cut off for trampling a crop, etc.

The problem that you, and I, have with the modern system is that it is NOT "eye for an eye", it is far, far less.
The system has forgotten that cocaine can kill just as easily as a gun but the "murderer" gets life and the dealer gets a plea. Even the murderer getting a life sentence is minimalist, IMO. Take a life, lose your life, not sit in jail for 30 years with heat and air conditioning and weight rooms and cable tv...

Hellbilly5000
July 29, 2009, 08:20 PM
I do think with all the technology we have today it makes kids feel entitled to being entertained. I am 30 I grew up in the age of nintendo.
I played video games as a kid. If my parents thought i was inside to long they kicked me out and I went to a friends house and we played football or basketball for the rest of the day
When we were all younger parents did not worry about us if they did not see us or hear from us from 10 am till it was dark. We all did it as a kid Mom tells us to be home at dark (dark is a very subjective and debatable word for a kid) and we showed up at the last possible moment.
To some degree its the tv with all the crime dramas and video games like grand theft auto that's raising the children of today and not so much the parents.
If I had children no I would not trust them outside alone like my parents did me for fear of them not for fear that they would get in trouble.

Think about 10 years ago
You could walk out of your house with out a cell phone and you did not think twice about now I cant walk from room to room with out my iphone

more and more people are getting tired of the traffic and the crime and what not that goes with a larger city so they move to a small town and don't realize that by them moving their bringing that same element they want to get away from to the small town.
Criminals go where the nice cars nice houses and money is
Pardon the expression But criminals don't typically take a dump where they eat

Southern_guy
July 29, 2009, 08:58 PM
I wouldn't say everywhere is getting worse.

The small town I'm posting this from has had a long history of violence.
In the 1920s, during a feud between two different families over property (let's call them "Family A" and "Family B"), many were killed.
It started with a member of family A getting blasted off his plow with a deer rifle, then escalated to the point where a member of family B walked into church and gunned down 4 members of A with a WW1 souvenir.

During the anarchy of the 30's, an apparent member of the New Orleans mob hid here, and often picked fights with out-of-towners and killed them for fun.

And let's just say that there's a reason that nearly every minority resident until the 1970s or so "moved" "ran off" "went missing" or "had a hunting accident." :eek:

Also during the 70s, a man was disemboweled with a knife in a fight over a varsity basketball game, and a dispute between ranchers led to flocks being poisoned and booby-traps being placed, one of which killed a woman when she started her husband's truck.

But since 1980 or so? Next to nothing beyond a few vandals.

To some degree its the tv with all the crime dramas and video games like grand theft auto that's raising the children of today and not so much the parents.

Then that's the fault of the parents, not the media.

Hellbilly5000
July 29, 2009, 09:15 PM
Then that's the fault of the parents, not the media.

That was my point exactly Its parents not paying attention to there kids and letting sponge bob raise them

Eskimo
July 29, 2009, 09:23 PM
Then that's the fault of the parents, not the media.

The same idea can be applied with sending your kids to school or even bringing them along when you go shopping. They're going to run into bad things and bad people.. and that's fine, if you're a good parent.

I was brought up watching those crime movies and even playing Grand Theft Auto; if you have sensible parents that teach you right from wrong, it's not a problem at all.

I am completely unbiased on this subject, and I can tell you that the overall content of media is NOT the problem. Having your face glued to a screen is.

Hellbilly5000
July 29, 2009, 09:35 PM
the overall content of media is NOT the problem. Having your face glued to a screen is.

True but if the kid plays grand theft auto and the parent does not tell them that it is wrong to do that in real life Its still an issue of bad parents and parents letting a plastic box raise there kids

Nnobby45
July 29, 2009, 10:05 PM
What has happened to us when we have to cower, conceal and hide your middle finger (when someone ticks you off). Let's just be courteous to those scum bags who insult you? What do you deserve, no respect? Don't you deserve honest and decency from the low lifes of the world? Sooner or later you have to stand up for what you believe in, or we are all lost....

Right. We must always react in anger like a robotic puppet on a string, as we demand respect from someone who disrespected us, in the first place, just to make us angry so they'd be in control.:cool:

BlueTrain
July 30, 2009, 06:10 AM
I grew up in a small town of perhaps 9,000, then moved to the country when I was in high school. The small town is even smaller now because the main industry closed up shop (railroad shops for the Virginian, then the N&W railroad) and moved to another town (Roanoke). In the country I was considered to be from the city and to be frank, the small town was much more city-like than living in the suburbs. And people had all the big city complaints about the traffic and parking. If nothing else, those complaints have evaporated. Many of the local business moved to the mall outside of town and there's still no Wal-Mart, or wasn't the last time I was there. Other small towns are even worse off but there doesn't seem to be much difference in the way of crime. But some things have changed.

One is, I think people are less tolerant now. That is particularly ironic because one thinks of the 1950s as being very conformist. A rebel was someone who had a D.A. haircut and wore his shirt-tail out. If he was really bad, he had a motorbike, and we had our share of those. Yet it was also a time when people would come to your door asking for handouts, showing you dog eared cards that said they couldn't speak. It was a time when small towns had characters who shuffled around collecting empty soda bottles (we said "pop" bottles), dressed strangely and were incredibly dirty. And there were old timers who were obviously poor and would talk about delivering mail on horseback. In fact, I guess you could say we lived in a working section of town. There was a sporting goods store that seemed to have more boats than anything. These days they have way more guns than they did then. I don't recall them ever displaying handguns when I lived there.

There was a police department, which occupied half of the building shared with the fire department. On warm summer days they opened the garage door and you could see their gun cabinet. The policemen were about like Barney Fife and had swivel holsters. I suspect the policemen are a little different these days with Prussian haircuts and an attitude. But perhaps I'm being unfair.

It wasn't much different in the country, except everyone seemed to own guns, mostly long guns. No one I knew had a revolver and only one person had a .22 automatic. I got to fire it and I don't even know what kind it was. Hunting was popular but because they would shoot anything that moved, if it would hold still long enough, there was no hunting locally. A few people owned rather ancient guns, though I never saw a muzzleloader in the country, though I saw lots and lots in the "city," oddly enough. The place I moved had been in my stepmother's (my mother having died) family for over a hundred years and it was a log house (not a cabin, a house). They had a Winchester single-shot in, I think, .32-40, or some such old cartridge. It weighted what seemed like 15 pounds but I never saw anyone shoot it.

I always wondered whatever happened to that old rifle.

Double Naught Spy
July 30, 2009, 07:57 AM
The perception of small towns as having less crime is just that, a perception. You don't hear about it as much from small towns, historically, because small towns tended to not have news organizations and were often somewhat isolated. That isn't the case these days. We know a lot more about what happens in small towns because they are wired with the rest of the world.

The other aspect is that many small towns don't have law enforcement. Crimes happen without being reported.

I will say this based on a county social worker's insights here. Domestic violence certainly is an issue in small towns, maybe even higher than in large towns. It seems domestic abusers, like meth heads and their labs, feel security in small towns, security to not be bothered for their illegal acts.

Brian Pfleuger
July 30, 2009, 09:05 AM
Part of the problem of the perception of small town violence is the perception of what constitutes a small town.

6, 7, 9 thousand people is NOT a small town. It is a small CITY, which yes, is completely different than a small town.

The town I grew up in had about 600 people, maybe 2500 people in the entire school district (which is probably 10 square miles), 400 kids in the ENTIRE school, K-12.


Truly small TOWNS generally have much lower levels of violence and crime in general. Sometimes, it may not show up statistically because one guy who happens to cause trouble every weekend when he gets drunk can skew the statistics of the entire area but the people who live there know the truth.

Hellbilly5000
July 30, 2009, 06:17 PM
The town I grew up in had about 600 people

pete my h/s graduation class larger then your city

for the record I think anything above 2500 or so people no longer constitutes a town its a city
less then 500 is a village
less then 150 is a dot on the map if your lucky

Brian Pfleuger
July 30, 2009, 10:40 PM
Pete my h/s graduation class larger then your city

Holy smokes!

I think that part of the reason the crime rate tends to be lower in small towns is because you really can't help but know just about everybody. I mean, I knew absolutely every person in my class on a personal level. I knew most of the next class down and a fair number of the kids two years behind me. My mother, who runs the bus garage, can tell you the names of the parents of darn near every kid in our ENTIRE school, K-12.

It's hard to get away with much in such a place.

Ian0351
July 31, 2009, 02:33 AM
The best answer I can find to defines towns, cities and villages has nothing to do with population (I got this from several googled sourced not worth citing, such as yahoo answers):

A city has a Cathedral
A town has a Church and a Communal Hall
A village or hamlet is a group of houses and a Church

This may not be totally relevant to American settlement hierarchy, especially considering the plethora of denomination for which we have churches... but it is interesting.

I grew up in a town called Maple Valley, WA which incorporated (became a 'city') when I was 16, with a population of approximately 15,000 people. I think village is appropriate for places without government services (police, fire, etc) and rely on the county for such. Towns have their own services, are generally less than 25,000 people (a 'small town' is <10,000) and do not have a democratically elected City Council. Cities have said elected government, services independent from county services... particularly their own jail.

Bismarck357
July 31, 2009, 05:44 AM
I too live in a small town,only about 3,500 people. And I don't want to make light of your situation,but let me tell you how it is here. We don't have any crime. In fact after 10pm we don't even have police on duty. The last time we had a major crime here was 12yrs ago,and that was some little punk tryin' to steal a car. Most of the men in my town (myself included) are military veterans,or just plain folks who believe in solvin' their own problems rather then bother the sheriff. I dare say we may be the most heavily armed small town in Oregon. There are several larger cities near by,and they do have their fair share of crime;but the scum that walks those streets know to stay away from here.If you and the good people of your town want the bad elements out of your town arm yourselves,get organized and work with the local police to get rid of that which plags you. Who knows,maybe I'm wrong...

BlueTrain
July 31, 2009, 07:25 AM
If you want to split hairs, in England a village has a church and a hamlet doesn't, unless the hamlet was a village depopulated.

But if you want to get the bad element out of town, you don't need to be heavily armed but you do need to be organized and you clearly need to cooperate with the sheriff's department. I assume here that the place is too small for a police department. But remember, you're also giving someone else your problems, however you care to define your problems.

Who gets to decide who the bad element is? You know, they say that a democracy is where you can vote to have someone put to death.

Steve1911
July 31, 2009, 08:48 AM
It is not an issue of small town or big town. It is evil, and where it is allowed to go unchecked and unchallenged it will flourish. I have family in the town in southern Missouri where those two girls were murdered. I know that it seems like it can not happen in a small town... But it does.

Up in Northern MO. is a little different with KC, and St.L being what they are... it is easy to become a cynic.

We all just need to remain vigilant and keep the evil in our world in check...

After all the famous saying goes... All it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

Never could a saying be more pertinent today than ever before.

akr
August 4, 2009, 09:17 PM
Steve, what town in Mo was it?