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gunner4391
July 8, 2009, 12:42 AM
I was at the range the other day and the guy shooting next to me said that he found an old shotgun in his dads closet that was a 36 gauge....has anyone ever heard or seen these?

Skan21
July 8, 2009, 12:48 AM
From what I recall, that's a european short hulled version of the .410. It's probably just a .410 though.

PetahW
July 8, 2009, 07:42 AM
Not really. The bore diameter of the .410 shotgun is .410", while the quite rare 36ga smoothbore is a true .360", smaller in diameter than the .410.

They were European though - used for the small bird collecting, popular ca.1890.
There is some printed evidence that cane guns may have been chambered for it.
The 36ga shells seem to have disappeared from production/availability shortly after WWI.

The 36ga later evolved into the same diameter 9mm rimfire shotgun, sometimes used in "garden" guns - such as the Winchester Model 36 of 1920-24.

They are all very collectible.

.

BobbyT
July 8, 2009, 07:03 PM
It's .410 bore, which is 68 gauge.

36 gauge would still be over a half inch bore.

Jim Watson
July 8, 2009, 07:18 PM
32 gauge was a common European and South American small bore shotgun, along with 24 gauge.

The true 36 gauge is a .506" bore, as recognized in old Austrian standards, but apparently somebody got mixed up and started using the term for .410 bore, which is obviously wrong.

One source
http://www.fourten.org.uk/36gauge.html
thinks it was because, as he put it:
"3 - sometimes in the 20's, someone at CIP (mistery, probably a swiss or a german..) probably thought of making an ordered and esthetically pleasant set up...since they had 4, 8, 12, 16, 20, 24, 28 and 32, why not calling the next smaller (and only remaining) caliber 36 (a precise 4 step).
Later they reversed to using the correct .410, but the industry had already started using the two names.
There are some 1920's catalogs from Fiocchi and Dynamit Nobel using both 36 and .410 for the same shell."

PetahW
July 12, 2009, 07:15 PM
My source is: American & British 410 Shotguns, a hardcover book by Ronald S. Gabriel (Krause Pubs), Ch.2, "The .410 Cartridge", pp.22.

http://ak.buy.com/db_assets/prod_lrg_images/326/33869326.jpg

Churchill, Bland, E.M.Reilly and Greener all built 36 gauge shotguns, smaller in diameter than a .410 bore - 9.14mm.

The ca.1890 ctgs were 1 3/4" long, carrying 3/16 oz shot.

.

James K
July 12, 2009, 08:01 PM
I don't know who called what what, but 36 gauge is a bit over a half inch, not .410 or 9mm or .36 caliber.

Jim

PetahW
July 13, 2009, 08:20 AM
There's LOTS of wiggle room because, over the years, everyday shooters have pretty much used the terms "gauge" and "bore" interchangeably when referring to shotshells; whereas us chickens tend to be more exact - TOO exact, in some cases. :)
Book authors aren't exempt.

Can't see the forest, 'cause the trees are in the way. ;)

.

Mike Irwin
July 13, 2009, 10:21 AM
I've never heard of a 36 gauge, but a recent edition of Cartridges of the World lists the .360-caliber shotshells that had smoothbore guns made for them.

pesta2
July 13, 2009, 11:29 AM
The only one I heard of, like Mike, is the .360 shot shell.

I have a 32 Ga. shot shell in my collection could he have said 32 ga?

I would like to know where he got the ammunition.

James K
July 13, 2009, 12:11 PM
"Everyday shooters", especially in England do use the terms "gauge" and "bore" interchangeably because they are the same thing. Both mean a bore size based on the number of round lead balls per pound.

But for guns other than shotguns, we normally use the term "caliber", meaning the bore diameter measured in inches, so .38 caliber means a bore of (about) 38/100ths of an inch. In metric measurement, 9mm means a bore of (about) 9 millimeters. Those are not always exact, but the measuring system itself is precise, not guesswork.

And no, no matter what anyone says, or how much "wiggle room" one claims, 36 gauge is not .36 caliber, nor is 80 gauge .80 caliber or 12 gauge .12 caliber. Look at a 10 gauge shotgun; does that hole look like 1/10 inch to you?

Jim

PetahW
July 15, 2009, 09:08 AM
A typical US .410 shotshell:

http://cartridgecollectors.org/410/scan0020a.jpg

A Velox 36ga shotshell:

http://cartridgecollectors.org/410/scan005a.jpg

A brass 36ga shotshell:

http://cartridgecollectors.org/410/scan0012a.jpg

A Peters .44XL shot cartridge shown for comparison:

http://cartridgecollectors.org/410/scan0001a.jpg

Everyone can draw their own conclusions - I'm done.

gunner4391 - I apologize, that your thread got hijacked, and degenerated into a p**sing contest, .

.

SeekHer
July 15, 2009, 11:45 AM
Dakota in their Superlite series made for them by SEACE has 24 bore and 36 bore shotguns available...

The European shell makers usually have 24 and 36 bore shells...

They were used mostly as a vermin eradicator, rats, feral cats and dogs and goats, pigeons and doves...low recoil, sound signature and fair selection of cartridges may make it a quail or woodcock gun but I'd be very leery of it...the smallest I'll shoot is my 28 bores although a .410, chasing rabbits pushed by beagles and basset hounds is a lot of fun...

Shot...... Approx #
Size.......3/16th oz
4………......40
5………......50
6…….....….58
7………......79
7.5………...90
8……….....108
9……….....135

PS Tofft
July 15, 2009, 11:48 PM
Gauge, when referring to a shotgun equals ~the interior diameter of a shotgun barrel as determined by the number of lead balls of the size exactly fitting the barrel required to make one pound. < according to the dictionary. There is the exception with the .410, which is closer to the caliber rather than the guage.
So~12 round balls of lead the same size as the interior diameter of the barrel should equal one pound and be a 12 gauge.
28 gauge equals 28 round balls of lead same size as i.d. of barrel to equal one pound in weight.
And so forth.
There used to be very common guns kept by people that had gardens and called 'Garden Guns'. They were used to kill or scare garden raiders like birds, opossums, racoons, rabbits, and sometimes 2 legged critters, etc. They were even used in cities and towns and nobody thought a thing wrong with that. All were small caliber or guage, single shot or repeaters, single or double barrels, and nearly every gardener had at least one. Sometimes the wife had her own. They went from plain jane to extravagantly engraved and gold and silver plated. It wasn't until the late 1950s that they fell out of use and put away in my hometown. Whiners got mad because the lead pellets would land on their roof tops and lead oxide would make streaks on the roof.
What happened to all of them is anybodies guess. Occasionally they turn up.

BobbyT
July 16, 2009, 06:12 PM
The .410 isn't an exception, and it isn't "closer" to the caliber than the gauge.

It IS the caliber. It's a .410 caliber bore, not called by its gauge measurement (which would be 68).

oneounceload
July 16, 2009, 06:50 PM
Here's a current model from Fausti that is offered, among others, in 36 gauge:

http://www.faustistefanoarms.com/cat_scheda.asp?id=61

SeekHer
July 16, 2009, 11:26 PM
Bore.………....Bore
Size..………..Diameter
..............(inches)……(mm)
04.............1.052……….26.721
08.............0.835……….21.209

10.............0.775……….19.685
12.............0.729……….18.517
16.............0.663……….16.840
20.............0.615……….15.621
28.............0.550……….13.970

67.............0.411……….10.439
68.............0.409……….10.389

24.............0.579……….14.707
32.............0.526……….13.360
36.............0.506……….12.852

BobbyT -- The .410 isn't an exception, and it isn't "closer" to the caliber than the gauge.

It IS the caliber. It's a .410 caliber bore, not called by its gauge measurement (which would be 68).

It is the .410 gauge and the 68 bore!