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View Full Version : Let me know what you would do in this situation


bones06
June 22, 2009, 02:51 PM
Well I had my first situation at the house since I got my gun. Last night my motion lights went on and I just happened to be awake. I ran to the front door and saw 1 guy at my gate, someone must of been in my backyard in order to trip the sensors, one in my neighbors car and 2 more on bikes. I yelled out the window "freeze m'fers or I'll shoot" and they started scattering. The guy in my neighbors car fell flat on his face in the neighbors grass, and one of the guys on the bike went over the handle bars onto the pavement. I had cell in hand and dialed 911 first, made sure none of them stuck around in back, locked back up , and drove around looking for them. I went back to the house to meet the police and the one guys bike was still in the street but they were all long gone. This is the second time one of our cars was broken into in less then a week and we live in a "good area" probably why they are going through our cars. They didn't get anything from us this time but got the neighbors old cellphone from their car. I wanted so bad to run to the safe and get the gun but decided against it because I knew that they were taking off, and that I am not permited to take it on me to go after them. Do you think I made the right choice by not getting the gun out this time? Now I would've if they were actually trying to open a door or window or if they didn't retreat after my verbal warning. I almost feel like I should've gotten it but there is this voice in my head telling me that I would end up in jail if I went after them and tried to hold them at gunpoint. Let me know what you would've done had this been you. By the way I did finally get to fire the Sig yesterday morning and am in love with it already.

doc540
June 22, 2009, 02:55 PM
1. arm yourself
2. barricade yourself (and family)
3. call police
4. remain armed behind barracade until police arrive

That's the safest response.

CorpITGuy
June 22, 2009, 02:55 PM
I wouldn't confront bad guys unarmed, personally. That's your personal choice, though. I think you were right not to break any laws (duh) :) and to avoid escalating the situation by brandishing a firearm. In many states (mine included) that is assault.

GojuBrian
June 22, 2009, 02:56 PM
You yelled stop or I'll shoot and didn't have a gun on you? :confused:

Were you going to yell 'bang!' :D

Seriously, a very bad idea.

Unless I'm gone, the guns aren't locked uo like that. What if they were trying to make entry? Would you have the time and presence of mind to get into the safe?

Maybe I misunderstood.

ezenbrowntown
June 22, 2009, 03:06 PM
"and drove around looking for them"


To each their own, but probably not the wisest, or at least safest move. Are there other people in your house? Is worth searching them out to leave your loved ones without you there?

My question would be, what were you going to do if you found one of them? My fear is that one could do something to provoke you (hit your car with a rock if you attempted to tell them something verbally, or something along those lines), that might get you to exit your vehicle. Then, best case scenario you look like you're hunting them, worst case you get jumped when his buddies show up to help him out.

Not trying to bash you or anything, just my thoughts. I'd prefer to keep the home front secured and let the cops handle the "tracking em down".

bones06
June 22, 2009, 03:10 PM
Brian just to clarify I yelled that to them out the screen before I went outside, and they were already halfway down the street before I got off my porch. I do agree that it was a bad idea to even go out there not knowing if any others were still there. The gun has to stay locked up in the safe because I have a 4 yr old and a 6 yr old, so leaving it unlocked is definitely out of the question. My friend who is on the police dept already told me in the past that in a home invasion situation most trained people and inexperienced people rarely make it to their gun in time to defend themselves, even if it was unlocked. I have decided to get an alarm on our home in the event someone tries to get into the actual house, at least I will have some type of early warning to get me to my gun a bit quicker. I think doc540 was absolutely correct on what I should of done, and thats exactly what my police bud is going to tell me after he slaps the chit out of me for even going outside before they got here. I do believe I officially made a dumb azz move doing what I did, next time I'm getting the gun out and sitting in the house with my family till the fuzz arrives.

comn-cents
June 22, 2009, 03:19 PM
IMO bad choice.
What if they would have reacted in another way, like rush the house, how fast can you open your safe? Now how fast under pressure?
Going after them? What were you going to do if you found them?
You unarmed. I'm not saying go after them armed but what do they have? O ya how many of them and how many of you? I just say be safe. Property is property. You got the "good" reaction out of them, they fled. You can replace property. Who did you leave home alone when you went looking for them? How about call the cops before hand and see if they could catch them in the act.

Mello2u
June 22, 2009, 03:21 PM
bones06

I wanted so bad to run to the safe and get the gun but decided against it because I knew that they were taking off, and that I am not permited to take it on me to go after them. Do you think I made the right choice by not getting the gun out this time?

Since you decided to leave your home and assuming you are accurate in your knowledge of your state's law which you say prohibits you from taking your gun with you; yes, I think you made the better choice. It was better to leave the gun locked up. Perhaps still better would have been to have gotten your gun and stayed in your home until the police arrived.

You seem to have a bit of confusion going on. You shouted to the bad guys to "freeze m'fers or I'll shoot" when you were not armed. You don't want to increase the chance of some nervous "perp" throwing a bullet your way. If unarmed you might want to say something which conforms to your unarmed status and still pursues the end you seek. Such as "Hey, get away from my property." or "Get out of here; I called the police."

You also stated "wanted so bad to run to the safe and get the gun but decided against it because I knew that they were taking off,". Take note and congratulate yourself in overcoming your natural tendency to indulge your anger. You must control anger and fear in a possible shooting situation. Imagine what you might have done if you were armed and caught up to one or more of the bad guys. What would you do then?

Use this as a learning experience.

KingEdward
June 22, 2009, 03:21 PM
what if while you went out the front, two of their buddies broke in the back and hurt your family? Not trying to judge, just thinking about any "next" time.

stay inside if possible.

be prepared if a threat tries to or does come in.

you generally have a broader array of options legally in your home
versus going outside and talking smack on the sidewalk to confront a creep.

Who knows what they are prepared to do or if they are trying to get into a gang and you are the initiation.

sounds like in this case, they were interested in the auto smash and grab and not the home invasion.

easyG
June 22, 2009, 03:42 PM
You yelled stop or I'll shoot and didn't have a gun on you?

Were you going to yell 'bang!'

Seriously, a very bad idea.

Unless I'm gone, the guns aren't locked uo like that. What if they were trying to make entry? Would you have the time and presence of mind to get into the safe?

Maybe I misunderstood.
I agree.
Bluffing is not the right thing to do when confronting the criminal element.

The gun has to stay locked up in the safe because I have a 4 yr old and a 6 yr old, so leaving it unlocked is definitely out of the question.
Perhaps you could use a trigger-lock and keep the key on a neckless around your neck?
It would be faster than accessing a safe.

My friend who is on the police dept already told me in the past that in a home invasion situation most trained people and inexperienced people rarely make it to their gun in time to defend themselves, even if it was unlocked.

I think he's wrong on this one.

I do believe I officially made a dumb azz move doing what I did, next time I'm getting the gun out and sitting in the house with my family till the fuzz arrives.
Yes, you should not have went outside without a firearm, but that does not mean that you should be cowed in to hiding in your home, while criminals steal or destroy your property, until the police arrive.

Tucker 1371
June 22, 2009, 03:47 PM
I think keeping the gun in the safe does you little good should the day come that you need it... and judging by the activities in your neighborhood that is highly possibly if not likely.

I was 7 when I got my first gun and learned how to shoot. Before I ever EVER got to fire a shot my grandfather drilled the four rules into my head (as well as a fifth).

RULE I: ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED

RULE II: NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY

RULE III: KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET

RULE IV: BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET

This elaborates on the 4: http://www.thefiringline.com/Misc/safetyrules.html

Make sure your kids know these rules, I don't think 4 is too young to learn the rules and understand them. Also make sure that they never NEVER touch any gun without your permission and if they do they will be in LOTS of trouble. Just be very direct and clear about what you expect and what can happen with guns if they're not careful. My younger brother and I used to get into WORLDS of trouble but we always understood that we were never to touch my grandfather's guns without him knowing.

If you have to retrieve the gun from a safe when you're in a pinch it might prove to be a critical handicap. This is your decision as the head of your house, if you think getting to your gun in time is not a problem then the extra safety is probably worth it, you must be pretty darn fast though. I would definitely suggest drilling your kids on gun safety though regardless of where you decide to keep your guns. Just my $.02


As for this situation I would definitely have had the gun at least within arm's reach and I would probably have stayed inside my house, but yelling at them is probably alright, just be prepared to back it up if push comes to shove. Again just my $.02

comn-cents
June 22, 2009, 04:19 PM
get a little gun safe with quick access. They work really well.

Doc Intrepid
June 22, 2009, 04:30 PM
Bones,

Consider one of these:

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp?id=0005562220659a&type=product&cmCat=SEARCHFEAT_all&returnPage=search-results1.jsp&Ntk=Products&QueryText=gun+safes&sort=all&Go.y=9&_D%3AhasJS=+&N=0&Nty=1&hasJS=true&Go.x=18&_DARGS=%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcommon%2Fsearch%2Fsearch-box.jsp.form23&_dyncharset=ISO-8859-1

Compatible with kids.

Faster than accessing the safe, etc.

attaches to frame of house with a steel cable.

Worth pondering...

Doc

markj
June 22, 2009, 04:33 PM
If they had gotten that close to my house, I would have had to pull 4 large dogs off of them and had some bloody mess to clean up. Never go chase them when they run. Write down plate numbers descriptions etc while it is still fresh in the brain.

CorpITGuy
June 22, 2009, 10:08 PM
I can speak from experience in terms of keeping guns in a safe or unloaded.

I used to keep my gun, which was my only handgun at the time, under my bed with the ammunition nearby. I thought that was the "safe" thing to do. One night I was deep in sleep and I heard a horrible crash and glass breaking. My wife and I immediately jumped up, and the dog began barking and growling.

Lesson #1: Make sure your "safe room" doors lock. If that's your bedroom, so be it. But make sure they lock. Mine did not. My 100 lb. wife leaned against the door while I loaded my .357 revolver. Not a good idea.

In my horrified state, I shook constantly and it took what seemed like an eternity to load the gun.

Lesson #2: You're almost better off without a gun if it's not loaded and close by; at least then you can try to dive out of a bedroom window instead of wasting your time trying to load a gun!

When I finally got it loaded, I went room by room, closet by closet while my wife sat in the bedroom with her cell phone in hand, 911 keyed in and ready to hit "Send". I shook as I walked through the house.

Lesson #3: No matter how brave you *think* you are, without tons of practice and preparation, you'll panic when it matters most. There's a reason Marines train nonstop.

I did not think things through beforehand. I did not use my critical thinking skills ahead of time; and, unfortunately, in my terrified state my skills were reduced to a dangerous point. I'm just glad I didn't hurt myself or anyone else that night.

By the way, the crashing sound and glass? A shelf fell in our lazy susan and broke a bunch of glassware. :o

Re4mer
June 22, 2009, 10:20 PM
Honestly, Original poster you are lucky you didn't get yourself killed. The idea of yelling something like that out a window and then not having a gun on you or your doors locked is pretty nuts. I would agree that calling the cops would be a much better play because the cops may have gotten to them before they left but by scaring them off you impeded the police from doing their job. Understandably they may have gotten away anyhow but giving the cops more time to get there and getting yourself armed before confronting them would have been a WAY BETTER MOVE. Next time do this.

I don't really think there is a perfect order to doing these three just because you may be in different positions of the house trouble comes but here are the main three.


Secure family/self (in safe room)

Call police (cell phone by bedside is good)

Get Firearm handy (this usually should be kept in the safe room)

Whatever order they happen in all of the above should be done in under 60 seconds in most cases.


If you must "check the doors" do it last, after family is secure and police are already on their way and you have your gun out and ready. In reality the doors and windows should be always locked every night anyway so checking doors should be unnecessary.

djohn
June 22, 2009, 10:34 PM
What would I do,No Offense but everything you didn't do and exactly what Doc540 said.

Wildalaska
June 22, 2009, 10:37 PM
Cower, cover, cell phone ;)

WildthethreecsAlaska TM

Lost Sheep
June 23, 2009, 02:40 AM
Cower, cover, cell phone
I missed your point.

Cell phone makes sense. Cover does, too. Cower does not fit the pattern.

Lost Sheep (also in Anchorage)

bones06
June 23, 2009, 08:09 AM
My biggest mistake was not me yelling without the gun but the fact that I left my wife and kids in the house alone. I should of called police and sat with my family gun in hand. There were 5 of them and I could account for all but one, but that one could've hid out back and tried to get into house. The only reason I went after them(not a good one obviously) was to try and keep a tab on them till the cops made it. Our police dept recently lost alot of cops due to budget loss so their response times are not what they used to be. Being the fact that they were not trying to break into the house the dispatch automatically puts other priority calls first. They did respond to my call very fast so I cannot complain, especially when 4 units were out front of my house within minutes. So in hindesight I know now not to try and play cop unless they are entering my home, and next time I WILL STAY PUT. Besides having an alarm installed on the house, we are going to be adding lighting to the side of the house and upgrading all the other lighting on the exterior. We luckily have not had major crime in our neighborhood yet, just young punks breaking into cars on a sporadic basis, but I don't want to wait to see if we will be the first major crime here. I want to be prepared, and prepared the right way if it should happen.

Steve1911
June 23, 2009, 08:10 AM
Personally... I would have gotten the 12 ga...

Nothing makes a BG's wet themselves like the rack of the slide... :D

But I am cruel like that I guess...

DougO83
June 23, 2009, 08:30 AM
Honestly? I could have fired in this situatiomn. I probably wouldn't have, nor would I have threatened such action. I would have dialed 911 to give LE the 'jump,' armed myself, and then protected my family, maybe I would have announced myself then. I would NOT leave my casa. Especially if there were kids and such there.

masonrox2547
June 24, 2009, 04:31 PM
anyone eles thinking of panic room?
that would be awesome if every house these days had one or atleast that you could have one built in your house, witch is probbly possilbe, but in this situation i would say get a semi-auto hand gun if you dont already, maby a glock 17 with a 31 round clip and a plus 2 baseplate? then get a trigger lock and hide the gun ontop of something that your kids can not get to and like someone eles said keep the key to the trigger lock around your neck:D

btw srry for the bad spelling etc:eek:

Aqeous
June 24, 2009, 04:59 PM
Well I wouldn't want them repelled Id want them arrested. So I would have simply walked inside and informed LE of a crime in progress.


Naturally with shotgun in hand, but with no intention to take them on. ;) It's just there in case the unforeseen transpires within the confines of my own home (as in inside my house)



Chasing after badguys with a gun at night is a recipe for disaster.

ndbbm
June 25, 2009, 10:39 PM
Definetly arm yourself first. You know the people are outside but who says what they are doing....they might be entering your house as your yelling out the window. Having your gun locked up or out in the open is a tough decision. I have two girls, 7 and 5, and they have never really showed interest in my handgun but I do keep it out 24/7 and it's always with me. When not on my person, usually somewhere up high so they can't reach it. My Dad got me involved with guns at an early age and i think this is the reasion why I never went looking for his guns to play with....the fad wears off. Alot of good points were made by the other members but just to elaborate on one, no offense. Rule IV....make sure you know what you are shooting at AND what is beyond it. I see too many handgun rounds go through way too many things. You don't want that round going through your target, then the drywall and into the next room where your kids are.

Re4mer
June 25, 2009, 10:54 PM
Well Bones its cool you realize your mistake don't beat yourself up too much and just move on. One thing you may want to do if you have not already is train your wife to use the gun too. Perhaps even get her a gun for herself. Two trained people is better than one.

Lost Sheep
June 25, 2009, 11:28 PM
In that situation, I don't think I could just sit around and let three guys break into my neighbor's car and steal who know what all and just wait to file a police report and have near zero chance of restitution or recovery.

I know there is a risk in confronting three guys (known, could be more), but from the description given by bones06 in the original post, it appears the situation would have evaluated as low risk. So, 99% chance of letting three miscreants get away with their crime or 1% chance of escalating the situation? I will take the risk and stand up for my neighbor.

Having said that, there is no way I would fire on anyone unless there was a definite threat. And even if I were fired on, if they were just trying to get away, I would probably let them go. After all, they just added felony charges for when the police DO get there. And I may have saved my neighbor's car.

Would I attempt to apprehend them? No. Talk to them and try to get them to stick around, yes, depending on my (continuing) assessment of the threat level. Now, if my threat assessment changed, and I would never get far from cover, I would immediately change tactics.

Call me foolish, but this sounded like a crime of opportunity, kids just wandering around looking for trouble, not some hard-core bangers.

Lost Sheep.

riggins_83
June 25, 2009, 11:39 PM
My friend who is on the police dept already told me in the past that in a home invasion situation most trained people and inexperienced people rarely make it to their gun in time to defend themselves, even if it was unlocked.


That's counting the fact many people leave doors unlocked, windows open at night, use cheap locks, etc etc. If you setup your house well they'll need to make a lot of noise to get in.. and you can be ready for them.

Nnobby45
June 26, 2009, 12:02 AM
Did you do the right thing, you ask?

Well, I watched First 48 last night, new episode, St. Louis.

It featured a young man who grabbed his gun, and ran outside to confront a man he thought was burglarizing his neighbors car. The man ran away, but our hero chased after him and fired some shots as the suspect hot- footed it down the road. A bullet hit him in the head.


I can't say how big of an issue the racial slur before the shooting will become. And, there wasn't any evidence that the slain man had even comitted a crime, though he had a criminal record.

The young man has been charged with 1st degree murder. His girlfriend, who covered for him, has been charged with hindering the investigation by lying to protect her boyfriend, and refusing to co-operate.. Neither had criminal records.

None of the shooter's friends who covered for him have been charged.

djohn
June 26, 2009, 12:36 AM
I have kids so my house is booby traped with deadly weapons such as sneakers,skateboards and bicycle's.If they can make past that with out getting handlebars stuck in there eye,MR 45 ACP awaits.:rolleyes:

bababooey32
June 26, 2009, 09:25 AM
Let me know what you would've done had this been you

Lockdown the house, get armed, call police.

I might have tried to verbally engage them as you did, but only after steps 1 and 2 above.

I ran to the front door

That's a tactical mistake. You just made yourself into a big silouhette target! Kill interior lights and go to a window and peek out. If you must verbally engage, do it from a position where they cannot easily fire upon you.

I yelled out the window "freeze m'fers or I'll shoot"

Bluffing = bad. Don't say it if you can't actually do it.

drove around looking for them

Biggest mistake of all. The BGs know where you livae and might be ****** that you interrupted their "take". You just left your family at home alone while you go out to....what? Arrest them? What were you going to do? You weren't prepared to do anything (no gun, no cuffs).

I applaud your willingness to help your neighbors and "stand up" against criminals. Just be careful that you do it in a way that preserves your safety and that of your family FIRST!

Jay1958
June 26, 2009, 10:19 AM
In the first place, if I am investigating an alarm at home, I will have a firearm either in my hand, or holstered on my hip, regardless of the time, ie. day or night.

In the second place, if I saw someone breaking into my car or my neighbors car, if they were not aware of my presence, I would try to call 911 and get the police enroute -without alerting them to my presence- or the fact that they had been "made"... while waiting and watching, I would try to be a "good witness" and make note of anything - descriptions, clothing, license numbers, etc that might help the police later. While watching, I would also be making a threat assessment - any weapons visible? age, size, fitness, how many of them are there, etc. of the perpetrators, etc.

If the perpetrators became aware of my presence at any point, I would have to make a split second decision of the best course of action, based on several factors: are weapons visible? are the perpetrators concealing something they don't want me to see (ie. possible weapons)? are they leaving or heading toward me?

Ideally when they became aware of my presence, I would secure myself in my home, barricade myself and maintain contact with 911 operator until police arrive. If the perpetrators rush toward me before I can withdraw and securely barricade myself, and depending on their specific actions and whether they had weapons and if so, what type and how many, I would have to make split second decisions, based on the factors present at the time, of whether my best option was to retreat and attempt to secure myself indoors or take cover and prepare to fight.

LeopardCurDog
June 26, 2009, 09:41 PM
A better way of keep the gun from the kids is to wear it around the house. An unloaded locked away gun is of no value.

phantom1984
June 27, 2009, 04:21 PM
First off i have left my gun unlocked in the open when my kids were younger than yours (with me supervising of course) to teach them what it is and not to touch it. Teaching children about guns at an early age (what they can do so on and so forth) is the best way to prevent accidents in the home. No matter what the popular belief is about locking up ur guns If it is locked up you Wont have time to get to it if you need it. If it was me i wouldn't have gone after them especially if i was unarmed and if you shoot them with out fear of your life you will have a lot of legal problems.