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Wrothgar
June 18, 2009, 11:29 PM
What's the difference between a k11 and a k31?

MuscleGarunt
June 19, 2009, 12:51 AM
I am no expert but let me tell you what I know.

The k31 is shorter
The k31 bolt supports the case head, the k11 does not
The k31 has a updated, shorter, redesigned bolt
The k31 is better

That is about all I know.

DrLaw
June 20, 2009, 09:02 AM
All of the above. The K31 was a redesign of the earlier rifle which allowed for a shorter bolt. Since both are Swiss, both are quality rifles. The bolt design on the K11 means that the magazine is located farther forward of the trigger guard.
Try going to www.swissrifles.com .

The Doc is out now. :cool:

Webleymkv
June 20, 2009, 05:07 PM
The K-31 was the final design in the Schmidt-Rubin family. The main difference between the K31 and K11 is that the locking lugs on the K31 bolt are flush with the bolt-face wheras the older K11 bolt-face protrudes a good bit farther than the locking lugs. This means that the K31's action is considerably shorter than that of the K11 so while both rifles are roughly the same overall length, the K31 has a longer barrel. The most easily distinguishing features are the K11's foreward mounted magazine and reddish colored bolt handle as opposed to the K31's magazine which is directly in front of the trigger guard and its metal bolt handle. While the K31 is typically considered to be a stronger and better overall design, both rifles are suitable for GP11 ammunition assuming they are in good condition.

jsmaye
June 22, 2009, 07:54 AM
This means that the K31's action is considerably shorter than that of the K11 so while both rifles are roughly the same overall length, the K31 has a longer barrel.

Well, that depends - the K11 rifle is ~53" long and the K31 is ~43". However, the K11 carbine is ~43".

SP Shop Foreman
June 22, 2009, 08:09 AM
Lets back up.
The 1911sr is 53", the k11 and k31 are a nominal 43".
The 1911 bolt does not leave the case unsupported. The lugs are still close enough to the face with enough support and strength to allow the 1911 to be converted to, and fire standard .308 cartridges.
The k31 was and can still be ordered from Haemmerli in 7.5 Swiss, .308, .30/06, and 300 Winchester magnum with the last two being single shot. The 1911/.308 conversion handles .308 chamber pressures of 50,000 just fine.

The Swiss army had the k31 because they redesigned a more state of the art rifle.
Which one is actually better for civilian collectors and shooters is a matter of opinion. I really like the feel of the k11 and the 1911 seems to match and sometimes outshoot the k31s depending on who's behind the trigger.
There are probably a lot of other opinions, but go here to see for yourself. Sroll down near the bottom. http://www.swissrifles.com/sr/detail/

SP Shop Foreman
June 22, 2009, 12:31 PM
This might help.

1911sr rifle& bolt
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v87/zfk3155/1911.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v87/zfk3155/1911bolt.jpg

k11 rifle & bolt

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v87/zfk3155/k11.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v87/zfk3155/k11-bolt.jpg

k31 rifle & bolt
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v87/zfk3155/K31-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v87/zfk3155/k31bolt.jpg

Wrothgar
June 22, 2009, 01:40 PM
Thanks for the info guys!

Also, what do you guys have to say about these? (http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_info.php?cPath=350_351_379&products_id=9585&osCsid=f6b41469ffa7201bd5a6463aa165b1ae)

http://www.fgsfirearms.com/admin/db_img.php?id=437&num=1

SP Shop Foreman
June 22, 2009, 02:21 PM
Now That is the 1889 with the bolt that leaves the case head pretty much unsupported, and you can't shoot GP11 ammo through it. It takes the 7.5x53.5 GP90 cartridge.
Do you have one??

Wrothgar
June 22, 2009, 02:33 PM
No, I don't have any of them, but I'm interested in getting one of them! I like long rifles, aesthetically speaking, so the 1889 interests me.

I have no idea what this GP11 and GP90 stuff even refers to. All I know is that they shoot 7.5x55 Swiss.

SP Shop Foreman
June 22, 2009, 02:45 PM
Successfully chambering and shooting 7.5x55 Swiss through that rifle is a sure way to send the rifle down and you up!! You cannot shoot the 7.5 Swiss GP11 in that rifle! If its a long barrel you want, buy a 1911sr. That looks very much like the 1889 and does shoot the current GP11 issue amunition.
Go here and read about it before buying anything. www.swissrifles.com

johnwilliamson062
June 22, 2009, 03:59 PM
The k31 was and can still be ordered from Haemmerli in 7.5 Swiss, .308, .30/06, and 300 Winchester magnum with the last two being single shot. The 1911/.308 conversion handles .308 chamber pressures of 50,000 just fine

I am always hearing this claim. I would buy one in 308 if I could find it, but I have never seen new Hammerli rifles advertised and their US distributior seems to only have air guns and pistols.

SP Shop Foreman
June 22, 2009, 04:23 PM
Claim? Go to our website, go all the way to the bottom, click on the AFA box and email him, but only if you're prepared to buy one. You'll be looking at around $1,800.00 for a new one. Used ones are rare.

Wrothgar
June 22, 2009, 05:53 PM
So this one (http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_info.php?cPath=350_351_379&products_id=10018&osCsid=f6b41469ffa7201bd5a6463aa165b1ae) shoots the 7.5 Swiss, but this one (http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_info.php?cPath=350_351_379&products_id=9796&osCsid=f6b41469ffa7201bd5a6463aa165b1ae) doesn't? Even though that website says they shoot 7.5 Swiss? Simpson LTD is lying?

SP Shop Foreman
June 22, 2009, 06:12 PM
You're not researching at all. The first picture you showed me was an 1889 which shoots the 7.5x53.5. Now you're showing me a 1911sr which does shoot the 7.5x55. You really need to find out which is which and what you're about to buy. Do those two rifles really look identical to you?
No, Simpson LTD isn't lying. You're confused and apparently not willing to research it for yourself.

Wrothgar, I've given you the links. Please use them before ordering anything. The designation 7.5 Swiss applies to both, but note the difference. 7.5x55 and 7.5x53.5. Both are a 7.5 caliber, but the ammunition is not interchangeable.

Wrothgar
June 22, 2009, 06:55 PM
Uhm, I DID research them both. I looked at the pictures, and I can visually tell the difference - the site on the 1889 looks much different and the magazine is larger. The first one linked is the 1911, the second one is the 1889. If you looked at my links, you will see that at THAT site, its says that both of those shoot the 7.5 Swiss. So, according to you, they are wrong.

SP Shop Foreman
June 22, 2009, 07:06 PM
I'll try once more. 7.5 is the only thing common in the caliber. One is 7.5x55 (1911sr) and the other is 7.5x53.5. Call Simpsons if you can't bother to access this link http://www.swissrifles.com/sr/detail/ showing the differences. Look at the top rifle and caliber, then scroll down to the 1911sr and look at the caliber. I think I'm simply wasting your time and my typing with this.
I do wish you luck in whichever one you buy, but if you buy the 1889 you're not going to find ammunition for it.
Take care.

Wrothgar
June 22, 2009, 08:30 PM
I did look at your website - it says the 1889 shoots the 7.5x53.5, while the 1911 shoots the 7.5x55, which is not what Simpson says the 1889 shoots. If they're both 7.5 Swiss and they are variations, when they're not the same/interchangable, then that's dangerous and mislabeling on the part of the Swiss military. What if they did the same thing with the Colt 45? They don't - they call them different things. There's the .45 ACP, the .45 Colt, the .454 Casull, the .45/70 Government.

Wrothgar
June 23, 2009, 01:04 PM
OR, the .22? There's the 22 long, 22 short, 22 hornet, 22 magnum, etc. At least they have the decency to label them differently.

Either way, I'd like a k-31 :-).

SP Shop Foreman
June 23, 2009, 01:57 PM
LOL! :D Ok, Wrothgar. Wun mo time.
The Swiss labeled and chambered them all correctly. If they hadn't there'd be a lot of confused and shell shocked soldiers. :confused:
Simpson's simply didn't advertise the caliber in it's entirety. The one you want is the 1911 Long Rifle. That one shoots 7.5x55 Swiss , or the GP11 cartridge. You can also reload the cases purchased from Graf & Sons with the 30 caliber (.308) projectiles, the same cartridge as the k31 shoots. I actually like the 1911sr myself
Are we cool?:D

SP Shop Foreman
June 23, 2009, 02:25 PM
I like showing this one. A gift from my Dad. Its an Officer's Issue k31 as mint as it can be with the accompanying Swiss Dagger.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v87/zfk3155/newk31.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v87/zfk3155/k31dagger2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v87/zfk3155/dagger.jpgPretty cool, eh? :D

johnwilliamson062
June 23, 2009, 02:37 PM
oh, that is nice.

SP Shop Foreman
June 23, 2009, 02:47 PM
Thanks, John. There are a lot of Swiss rifles here at home, I'm very proud of that particular rifle.:)

Wrothgar
June 23, 2009, 04:55 PM
You said that Simpson didn't show the caliber in its entirety - I would agree, and I will say that that is dangerous. Yes, people should research a firearm before they think about purchasing a weapon - which I'm doing now. However, some people would probably take Simpson for face value and not think to look at anything else. Its not very wise of them.

SP Shop Foreman
June 23, 2009, 05:15 PM
Simpsons is a very old and very reputable firm. The 1889 is a 7.5 Swiss, but the assumption is that there will be an enquiry and Q&A before a purchase. It would have come out that the caliber is rifle specific at some point.

BobbyT
June 23, 2009, 08:35 PM
The idea that someone would buy something as old, low volume, expensive, and specific without knowing what round it shot just doesn't make sense.

How many 1911 descriptions simply say ".45" instead of ".45 ACP"? Anyone buying a 1911 is going to expect the ACP round, unless you specify a variant in another chambering.

Just like if you're shopping for an early 60s Corvette and see a "283" advertised, you don't complain that it's misleading since GM also made inline 6s about that size. If you're buying an early 60s Corvette, you already know it's a V8.

johnwilliamson062
June 23, 2009, 09:35 PM
your right bobby. We should just close down this forum as anyne who knows about it should already know enough not to need it.

smoakingun
June 24, 2009, 05:41 PM
If I remember right, the 1889, the 1911, and the k31 are all "7.5mm swiss" but the cartridge was altered for the 1911 to modernize the round. The case was lengthened slightly and the bullet diameter was increased to 7.62mm. But I could be remembering wrong. As to the 1911/ k31 choice. neither would be a bad choice, but the k31 will be cheaper and easier to find.

bobotech
June 24, 2009, 10:57 PM
If you are a hand loader, can 7.5x55 brass be trimmed and formed to 7.5x53.5 and downloaded to the proper specs?

SP Shop Foreman
June 25, 2009, 08:46 AM
You have a PM

Latigo

SP Shop Foreman
June 26, 2009, 07:59 AM
John, here's your fabled .308/k31 :D

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=132448209

I was pretty close on the dollars. This is just a little overpriced I thinbk.

Latigo

johnwilliamson062
June 26, 2009, 06:04 PM
I have clicked on that link several times today. I saved it in my favorites. Doubt I will purchase it at the moment.

SP Shop Foreman
June 26, 2009, 06:09 PM
Its going to be cheaper if you order one direct.