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JohnH1963
June 13, 2009, 02:36 PM
If someone has a taser in hand pointed at you, is there anyway to defend against it?

Michael Anthony
June 13, 2009, 03:05 PM
Don't make any sudden movements and comply with the police officer's commands.

Seriously though... to bring this on topic, maybe the question should be about using a firearm to defend against a taser.

Trooper Tyree
June 13, 2009, 03:41 PM
I think this is a valid concern. Tasers are marketed in my area as personal defense weapons. You can even buy pink ones. :rolleyes:

I'm not adding this to post "gun related content" but I do have a question about guns.

If a taser was to hit in close proximity to your ccw, would it be possible for the electrical pulse to cause detonation of one or more of the bullets in the gun/magazine? Can electrical current even detonate a bullet?

What if you are on the ground, gun is between you and ground with the steel frame grounding you to ground? You would now have a flow off current from you through the gun to ground, moreso than if you were standing and the current was going through your soles or your halo or whatever. :rolleyes:

How would one defend against a tazer? Are certain people more immune to them than others? I grew up around electrical fences and doing my own household wiring repairs, shocks and the shock sensation are not new to me. Once you wrap you mind around it you can even function while hooked on a electric fence. I've found most of electric fences impact on people is just the fear of an "electrical shock" in reality they don't hurt you.

When tazered can you still function? Would you be able to pull your CCW? Would a knife to cut the cables be a better way to go?

Dragon55
June 13, 2009, 03:51 PM
If we're gonna talk about pellet rifles and paint ball guns then certainly a taser would qualify as a firearm to me. It is certainly more incapacitating.

As far as defense I'm thinking maybe winter clothing would help but of course that would require some preparation...... i. e. you're a BG and you know there's a risk of getting tased.

I don't know the speed of the 2 little darts but I have seen a guy catch arrows from 30 yds away.

scottaschultz
June 13, 2009, 04:16 PM
If someone has a taser in hand pointed at you, is there anyway to defend against it?Do a 180 and see if you can outrun it!

As far as a taser detonating a round in your weapon... if you are in a situation where someone is pointing a taser at you and your weapon is still in your holster, then you haven't been spending enough time practicing! A weapon in your holster does not do any good if you can't draw faster than the other person.

That's the great thing about these forums... I don't have to worry about missing my soap operas! The scenarios some of you guys come up with are far more entertaining!

Scott

Brian Pfleuger
June 13, 2009, 04:17 PM
If someone has a taser in hand pointed at you, is there anyway to defend against it?

Two ways for sure:

1)Be farther than approximately 30 feet away.

2)Shoot them.

A taser could easily be justification for shooting, possibly depending on other circumstances but certainly in many situations you would be quite justified.

It wouldn't do you a bit of good to catch the darts. That would be just like getting hit by them.

Trooper Tyree
June 13, 2009, 04:32 PM
Do a 180 and see if you can outrun it!

As far as a taser detonating a round in your weapon... if you are in a situation where someone is pointing a taser at you and your weapon is still in your holster, then you haven't been spending enough time practicing! A weapon in your holster does not do any good if you can't draw faster than the other person.

That's the great thing about these forums... I don't have to worry about missing my soap operas! The scenarios some of you guys come up with are far more entertaining!

Scott

Personally I was thinking of the scenarios where they don't raise their hand and say, "Sir, I have a taser, can you please hold still and let me shoot you with it"? If you're carrying your weapon IWB small of back, and someone steps from concealment/ambush and hits you in the back with a taser, could it cause detonation?

Answers like "Of course not because you should already have your gun in your hand" don't really answer the original question. :rolleyes:

As for being on the ground, if you're tasered long enough, that's usually where you end up.

If you still don't think this is a valid scenario might I remind you Mall Ninjas are quite renowned for both their love of concealment and tasers? :eek:

DeltaB
June 13, 2009, 04:50 PM
If someone has a taser in hand pointed at you, is there anyway to defend against it?

If I were confronted with this scenario, my first thought is "cover." Tasers are slow in camparison to bullets, (less than 1/5 the speed) so distance is your friend. Second would be to present as small of a target as possible, sideways, weak side forward. Always moving away at right angles. Anything in your weak side hand to use as shield. A trash can lid, behind a car, even a piece of cardboard anything to cover torso. Hopefully if you are carrying, this will give you some options until you have time to present your weapon.

JohnH1963
June 13, 2009, 04:57 PM
Tasers are much easier to obtain then handguns. I believe some criminals probably carry these weapons because they are easier to obtain and the charges against them, if caught with one, would definately be lesser then if they were caught with a handgun.

I think its a possibility that a Taser could be used against me during a burglary or robbery thus I ask the question...

Deaf Smith
June 13, 2009, 09:32 PM
Several ways to defeat a Taser.

1. Wear a vest that the barbs cannot penetrate. Maybe leather.

2. Short circuit the electrodes (metal mesh comes into mind.)

3. Block its path (umbrella?)

4. Get one barb to miss its target (quick lateral move. And that takes real good timing!)

5. Shoot 'em first.

MLeake
June 13, 2009, 10:05 PM
I like it. The visual amuses me greatly.

However, most of us aren't John Steed, nor even English....

Rich Miranda
June 13, 2009, 10:49 PM
As far as a taser detonating a round in your weapon... if you are in a situation where someone is pointing a taser at you and your weapon is still in your holster, then you haven't been spending enough time practicing! A weapon in your holster does not do any good if you can't draw faster than the other person.

That's the great thing about these forums... I don't have to worry about missing my soap operas! The scenarios some of you guys come up with are far more entertaining!

Scott, I'll mention the obvious first: this IS the Tactics and Training forum. Given that a taser could be used against you in a criminal act, I think the question is perfectly valid. Making fun of the OP's question is unnecessary.

Next, it is very possible, even likely, that someone could tase you before you have time to react. While criminals are indeed idiots, they generally know that they'll have to take you by surprise. And before you claim that no one could ever take you by surprise, I'll just say that yes, even you can be taken by surprise. You can be more alert or less alert, but no one is so alert that it's impossible.

scottaschultz
June 14, 2009, 12:53 AM
First of all, if I offended anyone or made light of their comments, I apologize.

Second of all, I NEVER said that I personally could not be taken by surprise. Yeah, it is Tactics and Training, and there are a lot of great ideas being exchanged on this forum, but I just can not live my life trying to account for every possible way in which someone may inflict harm on me or my loved ones. There is just no way to cover ALL the bases.

My point is that these "How do you defend yourself against..." scenarios are endless!

Let's take the same premise, but probably even more likely than being tased, how would you defend yourself if someone has a can of mace or pepper spray in hand pointed at you? It is a lot cheaper and a lot more readily available and a lot easier to use than a taser.

My other point is that regardless of how aware you are and how much you practice, there is always something you didn't count on.

On March 30, 1981, John Hinkley, Jr. managed to shoot President Reagan. 10 years later on On May 13, 1991, Mehmet Alì Agca shot Pope John Paul II. In both of these cases, these men were being protected by the most elite of all security teams on the face of the earth. There are no more thoroughly trained and situationally aware individuals than the US Secret Service and the Swiss Guard, (I am sure there are others, but these two are relevant to my statement) but yet, someone managed to get past them. If someone wants to get past your defenses, they will.

I guess what I am trying to say is that we can all be more aware of our surroundings. Carry a weapon (or weapons) and learn how to use them. Train diligently and seriously as if your life depended on it... because it does! But most of all, live your life to the fullest and don't live your life in fear. I don't.

Scott

riggins_83
June 14, 2009, 01:01 AM
Block its path (umbrella?)

Man who catch Taser with umbrella can do anything.. isn't that right Mr. Miagi?

Lost Sheep
June 14, 2009, 02:26 AM
A man in Crestview, Florida was tasered on April 25, 2009 and when the juice was turned off, successfully drew a concealed weapon and killed the two Deputies who were arresting him.

see this news story
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=7430214
abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=7430214

followed by this report of the incident
http://odmp.org/officer/19925-deputy-sheriff-warren-(skip)-york
odmp.org/officer/19925-deputy-sheriff-warren-(skip)-york

the second report mentions the Taser, the newspaper article did not. so I have edited this post, thanks to surg_res.

from this thread on TFL

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=354154
thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=354154

Lost Sheep

I put the grammer objection in the subject line so as not to clutter my post with dreck.

stephen426
June 14, 2009, 03:19 AM
I bought a Taser for my wife since I can't get her to the firing range to practice (and no, NOT the pink one). She took the concealed weapons course, but never went to get finger printed or sent it in :rolleyes:. Anyway, I don't really trust her aim, situational awareness, or resolve so I figured a Taser is safer for the "general population".

Tasers have to be registered and the cartridges release "micro dots" with tracking information of the owner. I doubt criminals would buy one and register it. The could steal an unlocked on however and easily use it.

If a criminal were to use a Taser against you, they would most likely shoot you with it first, before you ever knew it was coming. Civilian Tasers shock continuously for 30 seconds while the police models only shock for 5 seconds. For the civvie model, the idea is that you leave the taser and use the 30 seconds to run away. Taser will actually replace your Taser free with a police report. As for the officers who were shot after they Tasered the guy, they should have shocked him again or had one officer subdue him.

The only way to defeat the Taser (reasonably) is to be able to pull out the darts. Cathching them or deflecting them is impossible for most people. I saw some program on Discovery Channel where someone was able to pull out the dart. They were expecting to get Tazered and the darts were located where he could easily reach them.

So what is my point after all this? If I were a crimnal and I was planning to use a Taser to commit a crime, I would only use a stolen one. I would Taser you first (probably from behind) if you were at an ATM or if I followed you out of a bank. Your ability to defend yourself is limited at best, kind of like if someone whacked you over the back of the head.

DougO83
June 14, 2009, 03:27 AM
A few things:

1. A Taser, the product sold by Taser International, is not somthing that the average crook can get their hands on. The buyer is run through a background check. Though I do not understand all of the nuts 'n bolts of the check, I know it is thorough.

2. Anything can deflect or deter a Taser's leads. An untrained person is not likely going to get both leads to stick in the intended target.

3. You can swat the leads out of your clothing/out of their intended path. It really isn't hard to do. We worked on stuff like this when I was certified to carry one for work.

4. It only works for a moment unless pressure is kept on the trigger. I was only incapacitated for about 3 seconds and was totally functional as soon as the current was stopped. However, you are completely helpless when you get hit, usually. Some are less affected by the current.

Can you resist the current? Maybe. Some people have proven to have a resistance of some sort to the blast. I do not have it and I was told that 'tensing up' can decrease the initial effect, but increase long-term damage*.




*Not verified personally

Bigjim3
June 14, 2009, 03:32 AM
The taser, Sucks Ive been tased 3 times. (I work in a jail) and have crapy friends. The best thing I know to tell you is do what the officer tells you to do when he or she tells you to do it. A drive stun is just as bad. I can asure you it will light up your life. But it beats the pepper spray anyday..:p

MLeake
June 14, 2009, 09:03 AM
.... but got to experience the CS gas chamber as part of security training, way back when. Not sure which was worse, the tearing eyes or the endless stream of snot.

We rode around in the back of a stake truck (6wheel with the fencing sides and open topped bed) afterward for five or ten minutes, just sticking our heads over the side into the wind, trying to blow as much of the residue out of our faces as possible.

Probably looked like one of the big dog movies, where the drool flies around while the dog's head is out the window.

surg_res
June 14, 2009, 09:53 AM
A man in Crestview, Florida was tasered on April 25, 2009 and when the juice was turned off, successfully drew a concealed weapon and killed the two Deputies who were arresting him.

I can't find anything in the article about a taser, still confused by that story.

I don't think that a taser, or other electrical source, could detonate a rifle or pistol round unless it is specifically designed to do so. I would guess that to generate a spark there would have to be capacitance generated between two surfaces not in direct contact with one another.

tmd11111
June 14, 2009, 10:09 AM
"Don't Taze me Dude"


Sorry, couldn't resist saying that.

cracked91
June 14, 2009, 02:05 PM
I was trained in the use of tasers about 6 months ago. (never got tased though, they don't require it anymore)

1. Normally a taser is not going to be a prime choice for a bg

2. Tasers are wildly inaccurate, even up close the barbs spread alot, so if someone points it at you your best bet is probably going to be to run and hope one barb misses you.

3. If someone misses, they will not have nearly enough time to reload before you can take action.

4. Tasers often have trouble with loose, thick, or baggy clothing.

5. They normally last 5 seconds, but on the new ones you can pull the trigger multiple times and stack the charge up to 30 seconds.

If you get hit, your best bet would be to wait for the charge to stop, and as quickly as you can tear one barb out, we saw videos of a guy who got tased 5 times by 5 officers because he every time he would wait and as soon as the charge stopped he would swat if off.

Deaf Smith
June 14, 2009, 02:10 PM
However, most of us aren't John Steed, nor even English....

It's not just an umbrella, but anything you can get in the way of the barbs path.

Anything from a newspaperto a grocery bag to a thrown jacket, etc... You will find in tank warfare one of the ways to stop a Saggar or TOW is to drive the tank behind a tree, fence, shack, etc... Same idea, Just get something in between you and the barbs path.

MLeake
June 14, 2009, 03:35 PM
I agree with you entirely. Even so, I'm enjoying the mental picture of the umbrella being used to thwart the foul foe.

But yes, there are an amazing array of improvised weapons available out there, if you are creative enough and quick enough, and ideally well trained enough, to make use of them.

mskdgunman
June 14, 2009, 03:56 PM
Criminals now practice ways of defeating the Taser. The most common method we've seen is baggy clothes (they increase the distance between the probe and the skin) and trying to roll out of it and break at least one of the wires which renders it useless. You don't have to pull the probes out, just break one of the wires. Some of our BG's have gotten pretty good at it but nothing works 100% of the time. Still, they practice and they realize the limitations of the weapon.

There was a line of clothing being advertised a while back which was supposed to contain a foil or a mesh that defeated the Taser. I'm not sure who makes it or if they are still being offered for sale but the reports I read on line seemed to indicate that it worked.

Dwight55
June 14, 2009, 03:56 PM
If it is an LEO with the taser and the commands, . . . he has my full attention and cooperation.

If it is not an LEO, . . . there will be an article in the newspaper about an old geezer who pulled a .45 on the taser holder.

Outcome details are yet to be worked out, . . . but I kinda think it may work out for the taser guy, . . . like the guy who brought a knife to the gunfight.

Either way, . . . it ain't gonna be pretty.

May God bless,
Dwight

Lost Sheep
June 14, 2009, 04:06 PM
A man in Crestview, Florida was tasered on April 25, 2009 and when the juice was turned off, successfully drew a concealed weapon and killed the two Deputies who were arresting him.
I can't find anything in the article about a taser, still confused by that story.

sorry about that. I linked to an early newspaper report which did not have that detail without re-reading it. Here is a clip from "The Officer Down Memorial Page, Inc."

http://odmp.org/officer/19925-deputy-sheriff-warren-(skip)-york


Deputy Sheriff Warren (Skip) York
Okaloosa County Sheriff's Office
Florida
End of Watch: Saturday, April 25, 2009

Biographical Info
Age: 44
Tour of Duty: 2 years
Badge Number: 260

Incident Details
Cause of Death: Gunfire
Date of Incident: Saturday, April 25, 2009
Weapon Used: Gun; Unknown type
Suspect Info: Shot and killed

Deputy Skip York and Deputy Burt Lopez were shot and killed while attempting arrest a domestic violence suspect.

The deputies were following up on a domestic assault report they had taken hours earlier, and located the suspect at a gun club in Crestview. The suspect was in the parking lot standing next to his truck. Deputy Lopez and Deputy York approached the suspect, had a brief conversation with him, and then informed him he was going to be arrested. As the deputies moved to handcuff the him, he became uncooperative and began to resist arrest. Deputy York fired his Taser (conducted energy device) and hit the suspect. The suspect dropped to the ground during the five-second jolt of electricity. When the Taser cycle ended, the suspect immediately drew a concealed handgun and opened fire. Deputy Lopez was able to radio for assistance while he and Deputy York engaged the suspect in a gun battle.

There is more, but this is the part that mentions the Taser. I will edit my original post. Thanks for catching that.

Lost Sheep

azredhawk44
June 14, 2009, 04:46 PM
1. A Taser, the product sold by Taser International, is not somthing that the average crook can get their hands on. The buyer is run through a background check. Though I do not understand all of the nuts 'n bolts of the check, I know it is thorough.

Untruthiness.

Tasers are sold over the counter at Fry's Electronics in Phoenix Arizona by $7/hr checkout clerks. The ones with projectile leads that reach 15 feet (C2 model).

There is a manufacturer activation check.

I'm willing to bet that this can be circumvented rather easily. A set of DIP switches to put in a particular order based upon the unit serial number (told over the phone during the activation process), or something like that. They don't have USB ports or a computer interface, so the activation process has to be simplistic.

Also, the manufacturer check is not face to face. I could call with your driver's license that I picked from you earlier. "Register" it in your name. Get the activation procedure.

Can anyone shed light on the taser registration process?

Lost Sheep
June 14, 2009, 05:04 PM
I don't think that a taser, or other electrical source, could detonate a rifle or pistol round unless it is specifically designed to do so. I would guess that to generate a spark there would have to be capacitance generated between two surfaces not in direct contact with one another.
There are four ways that immediately come to mind to set of a round electrically.

One: Spark, as you suggest, but which, as you also suggest, is unlikely. The metal in a cartridge is in close contact and highly unlikely to allow any capacitance/voltage differential to generate a spark inside. The current will simply flow through the metal, bypassing the priming compound and powder entirely.

Two: Heat. I heard about a guy who happened to have a few 22 rimfire catridges occupying the same pocket as a nine-volt battery. When contact was made, current flowed through the metallic cartridge casing(s) generating enough heat to ignite the priming compound. That was hearsay, of course. But the science is sound. I witnessed a guy get second degree burns when his metallic wristwatch band contacted two wires (12 volts) under a dashboard while working on his car radio. The burns were very small in area, but it only took a fraction of a second. The watch was unaffected. His wrist healed in a week or so. The watchband had some discoloration it took a magnifying glass to see.

The Taser does not generate very much amperage, so I am not sure how much heat could be generated by one and getting it to flow through a cartridge inside a gun would be problematic (the actual heat-generating electrons tend to flow across the surface of a conductor, all other things being equal), but it would be easy to arrange an experiment. Take a primer or a live round, put it inside a box sufficient to contain a small explosion (a plywood box or a fish cooler should do) and hook up one of the hand-held electrical "stun gun" devices to it through wires. Typically, they deliver 20,000 to 50,000 volts, depending on what model you have. If you can't cook off a naked round in that situation, I am pretty sure you won't be able to set off one contained inside a gun, holstered or not.

DO NOT TRY THIS WITH A ROUND IN A GUN!!!. The uncontained round that cooks off inside a box will just send pieces of itself inside the box at relatively low velocities. A round that cooks of inside a chamber will be just like firing the gun, and if the box does not contain the bullet, you have a negligent discharge of a firearm with probable damage and possible injuries or death. A round that cooks off inside a magazine will probably damage the mag, the grips and maybe the gun. Caveat emptor.

Three: If the contacts of the leads to the stun gun are not in intimate contact with the cartridge, you will get arcing and sparking between the contact and the cartridge. If that generates enough heat in the air to heat the priming compound, maybe the round will go off,

Four: Magnetically induced eddy currents could produce heat or spark inside the priming compound. This is a REAL STRETCH. Vanishingly unlikely.

So, protected by the metal shell of the cartridge casing, I think it would be impossible to set off a cartridge with a Taser. Furthur protected by the metal shell of the gun, I would not worry about it. As in all things firearms related, I hesitate to say impossible (hence my subject line), but highly, highly unlikely.

Or you could run the experiment.

Lost Sheep

JohnH1963
June 14, 2009, 05:12 PM
Just about anything and everything weapon related is sold at a gun show to include tasers and taser-like weapons. Im certain that a criminal could get their hands on one without being run through background checks. There are also many gunstores in states with very liberal gun laws that sell these things.

goldfacade
June 14, 2009, 07:46 PM
I work at a large church and am the overseer of our Safety Ministry. Our trained security guards carry different models of Tasers. The full size (think bigger than an M9 Beretta) are used by our uniformed guards and the compacts are worn by plain clothed individuals in the auditorium.

All civilian models come with 15' leads, the LE models come with 30' leads. Civilians cannot buy 30' models. The M18/M26 civilian model has a 5 second pulse @ around 100,000 volts. After the discharge there is a programmed 3 second pause where you cannot discharge again.

The C-2 models (cell phone-ish in design) have 15' leads only, no LE models. When fired it discharges for 30 seconds. Discharge starts @ 100,000 volts for the first 5 seconds, then reduces to 50,000 volts for 25 seconds. This marketed to women as the fire and forget weapon (read fire and bail out) taser.

The activation process was very straight forward. Access their portion of the website for Taser activation. Punch in the model and serial numbers and they give you a numerical code. To input the code you press the fire button the amount of times given by your code (example- code= 4567. press fire button 4 times wait for ready light to blink, press fire button 5 times wait for ready light to blink...)

In my opinion the C-2 is the best value and the safest one to use (30 second firing time). We use the M26 a visible deterrent (of course we would use it though if needed).

I have no experience with the X26, but by watching their video on it you can add, in 5 second blocks the amount of time the weapon will discharge by pulling the trigger, 5 extra pulls = 25 seconds added.

DougO83
June 14, 2009, 08:22 PM
Before you go calling someone a liar, make sure read the facts:

Yes. The TASER C2 device is inactive at the time of purchase and requires the owner to register the devices with TASER International and pass a felony background check before receiving the activation code. This may be completed online or over the phone for a one-time fee of $9.95. Some states and cities may have additional requirements.

My source? http://www.taser.com/research/Pages/ConsumerFAQs.aspx

Sure, it could be circumvented. Doesn't make my statement "untruthiness" or any other made up word you can come up with...

surg_res
June 14, 2009, 08:46 PM
Lost Sheep,
I read the article you posted. I hate to read about LEOs killed by doing their duty. I wonder if the taser was a bad choice in this situation. To me, tasers are more like a shot of Haldol and should be reserved for uncooperative suspects or psychotics who are physically difficult to apprehend secondary to their size or intoxication, etc (i.e. the 250 pound schizophrenic who is rampaging naked through an intersection swinging a garden hose at cars.
As for the man being apprehended at a gun range, of all places, his lack of cooperation should have been viewed as a dangerous situation.
I assume these barbs are disposable?

Enoy21
June 15, 2009, 10:06 AM
I think that my biggest concern would not be the electrical charge detonating a bullet. But the electrical charge spasming my trigger finger repeatedly. as I'm losing motor skills and firing in very unsafe or unintended directions.


I would say this is a weapon that it is relitivley safe to test with and find out. Empty a firearm , ( Glock would be my choice ) Point it in a safe direction and allow yourselve to get tased. Check to see if the trigger Safety lock kicked in after being tased.

bdturner
June 16, 2009, 09:23 AM
I use a Tasers at work everyday. I have seen and shot several agressive inmates that would not respond to any other means to stop them. In our facility we use a taser as a last resort. The inmate that resists after a good dose of OC spray takes the five second thrill ride.
Wear a vest that the barbs cannot penetrate. Maybe leather.
Sorry but that will not work the taser works through very thick clothing. I am not going to tell you how much it takes to stop it for the officers who use one but I assure you a leather coat is nothing.

One point to remember a taser does not work on pain compliance as OC spray does even though the taser does cause pain. The taser works on sensory overload and is like unplugging your muscles. The more muscular the person being shot the more effect it has on them.

pacerdude
June 16, 2009, 10:35 AM
I have a pacemaker, so does anyone know if a taser would affect it?

fisherman66
June 16, 2009, 10:41 AM
TINFOIL!!!!

Works great fer me against all forms of nervous system assault.

45guy
June 16, 2009, 12:32 PM
Chain mail! Might also get the sward and shield.

Crosshair
June 16, 2009, 10:54 PM
DougO83

You are lying, check the rest of the FAQ you posted. The part where it says. This may be completed online or over the phone for a one-time fee of $9.95.

So yes, criminals can easily get their hands on them. I see them for sale all over the place. The "activation" bit is a small speed bump.

Honestly, how hard is it to steal someones ID and activate it using that? Anything preventing me from using my 3 year old cousins ID to activate these? How hard would it be for someone to just go in override that? I am not aware of anyone showing how inherently easy or difficult such a thing would be. People have hacked voting machines with ease, how long would it take to figure out a Tazer?

We only have Taser Co's word that it is secure and not much else.

DougO83
June 16, 2009, 11:01 PM
You are lying, check the rest of the FAQ you posted.

I did. Nothing I typed negates any part of that.

The part where it says. This may be completed online or over the phone for a one-time fee of $9.95.

How does this change the fact that a background check is required and that the average crook can't pick one up? Oh...it doesn't.

So yes, criminals can easily get their hands on them.

Oh? Have you ever seen a criminal buy one? How many cases have they been used in? Have you ever sold one to a criminal? Ever asked a criminal to try and buy one? I am guessing that the answers will be: 'no' 'i don't know' 'no' and 'no'

I see them for sale all over the place.

English lesson: "for sale" and "sold" and "in criminal possession" are not synonyms.


The "activation" bit is a small speed bump.

Agreed, but those who are literate would see that I never said anything about the comparative difficulty of getting the Taser.


Honestly, how hard is it to steal someones ID and activate it using that?

I don't know. You don't either. So you made yourself look like an ass by calling me aliar while being totally uninformed.

Anything preventing me from using my 3 year old cousins ID to activate these?

Yes, the fact that you have to present the ID when you make the purchase. And, this part is strictly from the rep at a cop shop I buy ammo at: the information is recorded and must match when you do the phone/net registration.

How hard would it be for someone to just go in override that?

Override what? The Taser that I looked at has no external hookup to a computer, etc. That leads me to believe that it is activated like a cell phone. How does one hack that signal?


I am not aware of anyone showing how inherently easy or difficult such a thing would be.

Hi-lited for relevance. This has summed up all that you have typed so far.


People have hacked voting machines with ease, how long would it take to figure out a Tazer?

This has absolutely zero relevance as to whether or not there is an activation process for a Taser...try again.


to summarize: Crosshair...did you read my original post? Apparently not. I said it had to be registered and that a background screen was done. I did not say anything about how easy or difficult it would be to circumvent that system. However, from talking with a rep at my local cop shop, they ask for a little bit more than your DL#. You gotta do some pretty swift work to get all of the necessary info. What part of that is lying, exactly? Please, tell me...

Skans
June 24, 2009, 04:22 PM
Drop sideways, roll and run. Tasers are a 1-shot device and both prongs need to hit you. Plus, it's only air propelled, thus relatively slow in comparison to a bullet.

Or, wear tinfoil lined clothing.

Glenn E. Meyer
June 25, 2009, 06:21 PM
Do not use tasers on Frankenstein. Anyway, I have a PDF at work on a case study of a person who caught one lead in the head and then had a seizure. Might have been prone to such.

Aqeous
June 25, 2009, 06:56 PM
Mythbusters


Episode 10: Explosive Decompression, Frog Giggin', Rear Axle

".22 caliber bullet as a automobile fuse. As the story kind of goes, some people were returning on a trip and shorted a fuse. They used a bullet as a fuse and continued driving. Later on, the bullet suddenly fired and hit the driver in a sensitive area."


What I gathered from watching that episode was that electrical current can in fact pass over the metal surface of a bullet without detonating it. In this episode they had to significantly rig the trucks electrical system (to absurd proportions) to such a degree that they burned out the wiring, the resulting HEAT that that much current created was able to fire the round. Burning out everything in the process.


To my knowledge a Tazer fires a repeating AC impulse and does not generate that kind of heat. So no it will not fire your gun :D

Lost Sheep
June 26, 2009, 12:47 AM
I have a pacemaker, so does anyone know if a taser would affect it?

I would guess it could damage your pacemaker. Others say no, pacemakers are designed to stand up to defibrillators. I don't know. Try googling "Pacemaker and Taser". Share with us what you find.


Lost Sheep,
I read the article you posted. I hate to read about LEOs killed by doing their duty. I wonder if the taser was a bad choice in this situation. To me, tasers are more like a shot of Haldol and should be reserved for uncooperative suspects or psychotics who are physically difficult to apprehend secondary to their size or intoxication, etc (i.e. the 250 pound schizophrenic who is rampaging naked through an intersection swinging a garden hose at cars.
As for the man being apprehended at a gun range, of all places, his lack of cooperation should have been viewed as a dangerous situation.
I assume these barbs are disposable?
This guy appeared to be unarmed at the time of first contact. The guns he had been shooting at the range not within his reach. He was a big guy and worked as a bouncer at a local bar. When he became combative, one of the officers tased him in an appropriate use of force in the situation at the time. "When the Taser cycle ended, the suspect immediately drew a concealed handgun and opened fire". Everything went right, until it went wrong. He entered his truck and drove off, still fighting with one of the officers.

The first article I posted was incomplete (sorry about that), the second one (the one on odmp.org/officer/19925-deputy-sheriff-warren-(skip)-york) has a better description of the events.

I shocked myself with a hand-held "stun gun" thing on the thigh because I wondered how effective they were. It was no big deal, but it was too much for me to be willing to try it out on my torso. So, from my experience and from the story coming out of Florida, obviously, they can be recovered from, and fairly quickly, too. There is no such thing as a "magic bullet".

Lost Sheep