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cloud8a
June 8, 2009, 03:04 AM
Me and the family drove out to Lubbock. 6 hours. I do not have a CCW permit but in Texas you can carry in your car. I put my XD-40 under my seat. We arrived at the hotel about 11pm. We had food from Taco Villa so I cased the parking area seeing some suspicious looking folks at the hotel entrance. I wanted us to eat in peace so we parked out deep in the lot and ate. after we were done I decided that if something bad was going to happen I wanted it to happen at the entrance in the light. So I drove to the entrance parked the car. There was a white male standing there. He was jerking his head around and tugging at his pants. I sat there for a minute and watched him then I told my wife I am going in to get our room keys. Reminded her that our pistol was under my seat if needed. I went inside and got the keys. When I came out my wife had the Springfield in her lap and my son was shaking. she said that when I walked inside the white male cased our car and then got picked up by another car and dove around the parking lot and got dropped off back at the entrance (drug deal). she said that when the guy started casing the car she reached down and got the gun and told my son what was going on.

I later informed the desk clerk that they needed to check what was going on. I told my wife that telling the kids what is happening and scaring them was unnecessary. She was ****** off that the guy had the you know whats to case our car when he did not know there were some federal hydra-shoks waiting for him to do something stupid.

doh_312
June 8, 2009, 10:03 AM
I trust your wife has enough experience to handle your XD properly if needed?

I'm glad nothing more happened. I have found, since I got my permit, that situations like that happen all the time. It is those kinda moments where something just does not feel right, but the pistol at your hip sure is a comfort.

Good on ya

Brian Pfleuger
June 8, 2009, 10:12 AM
I have to say that I would not have left my wife and kid alone in the car with a suspicious character just feet away.
"Honey, pop a cap in that guy if he gets frisky, I'll be back in a few."

I would not stay at a hotel that had drug deals happening in the parking lot.

Plus, I don't understand eating in the car when you're at the hotel where you're staying.

BLS700
June 8, 2009, 10:34 AM
+1 on what peetzakilla said. I feel lilke avoidance should always be the preference. The gun is there when avoidance is no longer an option on the table imo. But in reference to the point about her telling your son had she needed to shoot wouldn't you have wanted him to know something in advance so he could get to safety instead of your wife having to bark orders to him and fire a gun at the same time? Of course I don't know his age.

KingEdward
June 8, 2009, 10:43 AM
not to monday morning quarterback but...

after eating in the car, I probably would have swapped places with the wife.

Had her drop me off at the office near the door. (and I would be carrying the XD)

I would have picked up the room keys while she had the car running / doors locked.

Then gotten in car and headed to room.

Remember, you can conceal a gun numerous ways.

Fast food bag, newspaper folded up, any number of ways to not look odd
in a motel office.

David Armstrong
June 8, 2009, 11:10 AM
I'm not sure how one can determine that someone else is "casing their car". Sounds far more like the guy was making sure it wasn't the cops (assuming he was a doper) or was just looking while waiting for his partner to show up. And to echo others, why get the food and eat it in the parking lot? Get the key, get into the room, then go get food and bring it back to the room.

sakeneko
June 8, 2009, 11:14 AM
Actually, guys, I'm not sure there *was* a good way to handle this. Frankly, I'd have been tempted to simply leave and find another hotel, even if that meant forfeiting a night's deposit, but not everybody can afford to do that. I'm also a bit more paranoid about "bad neighborhoods" than most of you; I'm female and was single into my forties.

However, leaving his wife in the car *WITH CHILDREN* meant he had to leave the pistol there. Yeah, I'd happily ignore the rules about concealed carry in an emergency (and this qualified), and I certainly don't think of myself as needing protection from my husband. (While he's bigger and a better shot than I am, I did fine by myself for 45 years on that count.) Kids do need protection, though, and that pistol was the only thing they had.

I think he made the best of a bad set of choices. And fortunately, the drug dealer wasn't interested in shooting once he figured out that you guys weren't undercover cops or another gang watching him.

<sigh> Cr*p like that shouldn't happen. :(

Brian Pfleuger
June 8, 2009, 11:21 AM
I certainly don't think of myself as needing protection from my husband.

The people who buy pizzas from me don't NEED me to make pizzas for them either, I do it because it's my job. (Same with protecting the wife.:);))

sakeneko
June 8, 2009, 11:38 AM
ROFL, peetzakilla! My husband says the same; he definitely *likes* to protect. And I don't mind; it's nice having him there. :-)

However, *if* we're in a situation that's genuinely dangerous, he's not just protecting me; the same's true the other way around. We are both players, not victims, when a bad guy shows up. In some cases, my part to play is going to be get in the car quickly so I don't distract my husband. In some cases, it may be to take out a bad guy who is watching my husband and making the foolish mistake of thinking I'm not a player because I'm an overweight middle-aged female who doesn't look dangerous. <EVIL grin> This would be even more important if we had children, because children (young ones, in any event) cannot protect themselves and depend upon their parents.

As I said, the situation cloud8a faced wasn't good. Other than perhaps driving off and finding another place to stay, though, I can't think of any better way of handling the situation he faced than what he did. His wife wasn't one of the children; she was the other adult. Leaving her the pistol so she could protect herself and the kids in a reasonably secure place (a locked car) for a few minutes made sense.

Or so it seems to me. I'm sure if I'm missing something, there are people her who can correct it. ;-)

Wildalaska
June 8, 2009, 11:55 AM
I think he made the best of a bad set of choices.

He made totally POOR choices. It's a lesson of what not to do and an example of how carrying a gun is sometimes not a good idea for some folks.

WAs 15th Law of Reality: In the ordinary course of affairs, if you would not be somewhere unarmed, you should not be there just because you are armed.

The gun doesnt make you invulnerable so you shouldnt act like it does.

WildletthisbeanabjectlessonAlaska ™

sakeneko
June 8, 2009, 12:47 PM
I think he made the best of a bad set of choices.
He made totally POOR choices. It's a lesson of what not to do and an example of how carrying a gun is sometimes not a good idea for some folks.

WAs 15th Law of Reality: In the ordinary course of affairs, if you would not be somewhere unarmed, you should not be there just because you are armed.

The gun doesnt make you invulnerable so you shouldnt act like it does.


Said with considerable confidence, but absolutely no information content. Okay, confident guy, what *should* he have done? Not have gone to Lubbock and stayed in a motel with his family? Or left and gone somewhere else? Or something else entirely?

I don't know if you're aware of this, but you sounded like an arrogant know-it-all in your post. I am aware that you might not have intended to; online message boards don't allow nonverbal signals and things can get taken wrong. But you should *not* criticize someone's choices unless you are prepared to suggest a better set of alternatives. You did not do that.

cloud8a
June 8, 2009, 01:03 PM
It was 11pm and we had spent 6 hours in a car with 3 kids.

My wife wanted to eat in the car because it had been years since she had Taco Villa and she did not want to eat it after we spent half an hour unloading the car. I do not have a problem eating in the parking lot. The possible threat was at the main entrance not out in the parking lot. I could watch the main entrance from where I was.

I did cancel my reservation for the next night and got a refund (we prepaid) and stayed at a much nicer hotel across town. We are not poor and we are not rich (but we used to be poor) so since we got our res. through Expedia we were in a tight place on a refund until I could get them on the phone the next morning.

I am not sending my wife in by herself to handle the desk business. The rooms were in my name with my card. I did not need extra confusion.

She knows how to use my XD, she has shot it on many occasion. She has no fear when it comes to protecting the family. Her responsibility to do so is the same as mine, and she knows that and more than willingly accepts that role.

all the kids were strapped in the back seat in a car seat or seat belt. they were as out of the way as they could have been. The kids knowing something that could make them act hysterical or unpredictable before the fact I feel is not a good Idea. I would rather they be ignorant of the situation and be in a "What just happened" after the fact. I don't want the kids grabbing my wife's arms and legs and screaming in terror before a situation.

It would have done no good for me to have the gun in the hotel lobby while the BG is breaking the drivers side window and driving off with my entire family out to the west Texas desert.

We did not know where another hotel was at that late moment. And we were not going to drive around Lubbock looking for the right one just because some jackwad was standing at this one acting funny. THAT I WHY I HAVE A GUN. If I left a location every time someone was acting strange I would have a hard time getting things done. THAT IS WHY I HAVE A GUN. so I can do my business around the sometimes American strange and shady and be secure in the fact that if strange and shady turns dangerous I have the tool to protect my life and the life of my family.

wickedrider
June 8, 2009, 01:07 PM
I'm not sure how one can determine that someone else is "casing their car". Sounds far more like the guy was making sure it wasn't the cops (assuming he was a doper) or was just looking while waiting for his partner to show up. And to echo others, why get the food and eat it in the parking lot? Get the key, get into the room, then go get food and bring it back to the room.

Ditto

Wildalaska
June 8, 2009, 01:16 PM
Said with considerable confidence, but absolutely no information content.

Really? I need to explain the obvious to you?

Okay, confident guy, what *should* he have done?

Again, you don't know? OK I'm sure I will be able to educate you later on.

I don't know if you're aware of this, but you sounded like an arrogant know-it-all in your post.

When you have been her longer than a week, you will know that I don't sound like one, I am one. And proud of it. Es ist nichts schrecklicher als eine tätige Unwissenheit. Try thinking outside the box you may learn something.

Wildlookie29postsandsheislareadytossingadhominemshowcuteAlaska ™

Wildalaska
June 8, 2009, 01:19 PM
It was 11pm and we had spent 6 hours in a car with 3 kids.


Why didnt you just call 911. Or call the hotel lobby to ask them to do so. Or wait a few minutes?

Ask yourself this: Would you have acted the same way you did if you were unarmed?

Be honest

WilditsimportantAlaska ™

Wildalaska
June 8, 2009, 01:28 PM
And we were not going to drive around Lubbock looking for the right one just because some jackwad was standing at this one acting funny. THAT I WHY I HAVE A GUN. If I left a location every time someone was acting strange I would have a hard time getting things done. THAT IS WHY I HAVE A GUN. so I can do my business around the sometimes American strange and shady and be secure in the fact that if strange and shady turns dangerous I have the tool to protect my life and the life of my family.

I didnt read that. let me respond.

Thats NOT why you have a gun. You have a gun because you want to protect yourself from unanticipated and deadly attacks. And if you are in that many situations where you cant get your biz done because folks are "strange and shady" you need to either move or do some soul searching..


And with all due respect, your placing yourself and your familiy in a potentially harmful situation just because of convenience smacks of poor decisionmaking. The gunwoobie doesnt render one invulnerable to social, financial, legal or psychological aftermaths.

WildthebestdefenseisbetweenyourearsAlaska ™

cloud8a
June 8, 2009, 01:30 PM
Wild Alaska

I am sure you walk around with a pair of night vision goggles in the survival bag you carry 24/7 and that you have been to every tactical training class in your vicinity and you carry a pocket size notebook in your front pocket so that you can 'Observe and Report'.

In my world I try to adapt to things the best I can. I do not call the cops every time to protect me when I feel a little scared inside. Nor do I think perfectly at all times like you clearly do. I keep my eyes and ears open and hope things do not get ugly. It is called being a free man.

Sounds to me you have a beed on the situation so lets hear how you would have. Maybe you would have just ran over to the guy and made a citizens arrest.
or you are just trying to inflame something.

cloud8a
June 8, 2009, 01:36 PM
""Thats NOT why you have a gun. You have a gun because you want to protect yourself from unanticipated and deadly attacks. And if you are in that many situations where you cant get your biz done because folks are "strange and shady" you need to either move or do some soul searching..""

I don't live in the wilderness dude. I live in a big city. Around millions of people. people cant always just up and move.

You know what? you don't know what you are talking about. I think you might be just trying to start a problem. That other language stuff you posted shows a level of immaturity. So looks like your just a little troublemaker.

Brian Pfleuger
June 8, 2009, 01:38 PM
Sounds to me you have a beed on the situation so lets hear how you would have. Maybe you would have just ran over to the guy and made a citizens arrest.
or you are just trying to inflame something.

I'm curious as to why you would post about this event if you are not interested in hearing that you may have done the wrong thing.

If you want "Adda boy! Good work!" regardless of anything, this is not the place you'll be finding it.

cloud8a
June 8, 2009, 01:41 PM
Of course I want to hear how I would have done things better. But come on, when describing how you would have done things differently don't fall just short of saying I was a reckless moron. There are ways to talk to people. Just because we are on a forum does not mean it is not polite conversation.

OuTcAsT
June 8, 2009, 01:46 PM
Would you have acted the same thing you did if you were unarmed?

While the grammar, and syntax, of this statement may be a bit hard to understand, the question is still valid.


Would you have acted in the same manner, and made the same decisions, if you had been unarmed ?

If not then some introspection is in order.

Wildalaska
June 8, 2009, 01:47 PM
Of course I want to hear how I would have done things better. But come on, when describing how you would have done things differently don't fall just short of saying I was a reckless moron. There are ways to talk to people. Just because we are on a forum does not mean it is not polite conversation.

Please advise where anybody called you a "moron". But in point of fact, your actions were totally wrong, and if being told that upsets you, or if having your justifications exposed as reckless upsets you, o well.

WildlearnAlaska ™

doh_312
June 8, 2009, 01:55 PM
This is one fight I dont want to get in the middle of, however, I am curious Mr. Alaska, what you would have done differently?

Not that it makes a difference, no one was there but the OP and we cannot accurately armchair-quarterback the situation. We cant take into account how long they've been on the road, the restless kids in the back who are probably whinning, the tired wife, the tired driver, etc.

I do respect you opinion Mr. Alaska, so I would like to know what you'd have done.

cloud8a
June 8, 2009, 01:56 PM
No I would not have changed anything if unarmed. Does that prove that I am the right kind of gun owner in your opinion?

As of yet all wildalaska has done is said I made POOR decisions. Now it is time for a detailed description of everything I did wrong and how to correct it.

LightningJoe
June 8, 2009, 01:57 PM
Stay away from cheap motels. The density of questionables is high. I've noticed this. Hotels/motels are one of the things that have a non-linear price/quality curve. It's flat at the top and really steep at the bottom.

doh_312
June 8, 2009, 02:00 PM
My wife has her own carry firearm so I could take my XD40 with me and she can stay with her Bersa. That is prolly the main difference for me.

If I were in your situation I would have put the XD in her hands, instead of under the seat. She has to reach for it down there which takes her eyes off the BG, exposes her to injury, and extends the time it takes to get the pistol in her hands and trained on BG.

Imagine if the guy smashes your driver side window with a crowbar or something. Aside from glass fragments your wife has to lean over or on to reach for the pistole, she is leaning towards the BG, and lowering her head so he could easily reach through the open window and grab her.

Brian Pfleuger
June 8, 2009, 02:09 PM
No I would not have changed anything if unarmed. Does that prove that I am the right kind of gun owner in your opinion?

You would leave your wife and children alone in a car, parked next to a suspicious person, at night, in an unknown town?


You want to know what you SHOULD have done?

You should have parked your car directly in front of the hotel lobby. You should have taken your entire family inside, right away, and reported a suspicious person outside. Check into your room, go back outside when the suspicious person is gone, alone, since the wife will be with the kids, and move the car to the closest and/or safest parking spot. Go inside and go to sleep. In the morning, find a new place to stay.

cloud8a
June 8, 2009, 02:09 PM
""My wife has her own carry firearm so I could take my XD40 with me and she can stay with her Bersa. That is prolly the main difference for me.

If I were in your situation I would have put the XD in her hands, instead of under the seat. She has to reach for it down there which takes her eyes off the BG, exposes her to injury, and extends the time it takes to get the pistol in her hands and trained on BG.""

I agree I could have put the gun in her lap but it did not occur to me. As far as a gun for my wife, she has a .38 snub but we just did not bring it because we felt mine was enough. I do not have a CCW permit so the XD had to stay in the car anyway. Since I was the only one getting in and out of the car the duration of the trip maybe I should have put it under her seat.

sakeneko
June 8, 2009, 02:11 PM
As to handling the same situation in the future, you just explained why I don't book hotel rooms for hotels I am not already familiar with through an online travel site like Expedia. A booking through a site like that is prepaid; it leaves you on the hook even if the site doesn't meet your basic expectations for being safe and decent. I figured that out back in the late 1990s when I booked something through one of those sites -- I think it was Travelocity. I was on a road trip and booked a room at a Comfort Inn in a small town off of I-40 in Arizona or New Mexico.

The Comfort Inns as a whole are decent places; this one was not. There was a crowd of drunk rowdies staying there that night; they were leering and whistling as I walked in the front door. Asked the clerk about them; was told they were harmless. My instincts told me otherwise. They didn't seem just rowdy, but mean and out of control. I asked the clerk to cancel my reservation; he couldn't do it because I'd booked through this third-party site.

I left anyway and found another place to say, fortunately. (It was summer travel season.) The next day I called the booking site's 800 number. They wouldn't refund my money. I complained to the manager, but no joy. Fortunately I wasn't going to go broke over one night at a hotel, but if I'd booked for a week, I'd have been out the week. :/

I'd suggest it's worth the extra $10 to $20 you pay if you book directly with the hotel when you haven't been there before. If you're worried about loosing one night's room rate, just find out what their cancellation cutoff is and arrange to get there sooner. That's not a bad idea in any event when you aren't familiar with the hotel or neighborhood.

You and your family got out of this in one piece, though. So all is well. :-)

Wildalaska
June 8, 2009, 02:12 PM
however, I am curious Mr. Alaska, what you would have done differently?

Take a ride around the block. Call 911, then go treat the kiddies to Mickey Ds. Call the Motel front desk. Call Expedia to complain.

But to deliberately insert your family into a situation where your hinkeymeter is moving to the red zone just cuz you have a gun?:cool:

No I would not have changed anything if unarmed. Does that prove that I am the right kind of gun owner in your opinion?

To be brutally frank, it proves to me you need to get some training or practice some introspection

Now it is time for a detailed description of everything I did wrong and how to correct it.

Wrong: you chose to check in whilst there was an aura of hinkiness and left your wife and kids there JUST BECAUSE YOU HAD A GUN.

Corrections: See above.

Would you have left your wife and kids alone in that situation if you didnt have your gunny with you?

WilditsagoodexperienceAlaska ™

cloud8a
June 8, 2009, 02:14 PM
""You would leave your wife and children alone in a car, parked next to a suspicious person, at night, in an unknown town?


You want to know what you SHOULD have done?

You should have parked your car directly in front of the hotel lobby. You should have taken your entire family inside, right away, and reported a suspicious person outside. Check into your room, go back outside, alone and move the car to the closest and/or safest parking spot. Go inside and go to sleep. In the morning, find a new place to stay.""

I parked right smack dab at the front door. My wife had a gun so suspicious person was noted. I did all those things except take the whole family inside. Like I said my wife was armed.

OuTcAsT
June 8, 2009, 02:21 PM
Sounds to me you have a beed on the situation so lets hear how you would have.

OK, You asked for feedback, try and take it as a "constructive" criticism:

I cased the parking area seeing some suspicious looking folks at the hotel entrance.

This would set off an alarm in my head that maybe this is not a good place to be, and certainly not with my Wife and Kids.

I decided that if something bad was going to happen I wanted it to happen at the entrance in the light.

This is where your decisions become dubious, If I thought something "bad" was going to happen the last thing I would do is :

So I drove to the entrance parked the car

You have already stated that you had seen some "suspicious looking folks" at the entrance, and that you felt aware that "something bad" could happen, Might be a good time to call the desk of the hotel, from a distance, and express your concern for safely entering their establishment, they might have called Police or, you could have.

To put yourself, let alone your family, in that situation was
not wise.


She knows how to use my XD, she has shot it on many occasion. She has no fear when it comes to protecting the family. Her responsibility to do so is the same as mine, and she knows that and more than willingly accepts that role.

Seems that your decision to drive into the dangerous situation left her no choice in the matter.

I did cancel my reservation for the next night and got a refund (we prepaid) and stayed at a much nicer hotel across town. We are not poor and we are not rich (but we used to be poor) so since we got our res. through Expedia we were in a tight place on a refund until I could get them on the phone the next morning.


if you got your hotel reservations thru expedia, they have a 24hr hotline where you can change reservations, or get refunds, from the safety of the "much nicer hotel across town", they credit back your card instantly in most cases.

It is called being a free man

It is a free country, and you certainly have a right to make your own decisions as you see fit, but if you describe your actions, and ask for advice, then expect to get it. Sometimes it may not be what you want to hear.

A firearm is not a license to make poor choices.

Wildalaska
June 8, 2009, 02:22 PM
Like I said my wife was armed

It seems to me you are more interested in allowing your ego needs to overide an important lesson here.

YOU could have avoided the whole scenario easily. Instead, you allowed the great gunwoobie to lull you into a false sense of security.

Be great for the kiddies to see mommy bust a cap into some guy:rolleyes: Be even greater if it was a bad shoot and mommy gets indicted.:rolleyes:

WHY IN GODS NAME WOULD YOU PUT YOUR FAMILY IN A SITUATION WHERE YOUR WIFE MAY NEED TO SHOOT SOMEONE? FOR WHAT?

you made a mistake. learn and move on.

WildsorrytoshoutbutreallyAlaska ™

5whiskey
June 8, 2009, 02:23 PM
It is a free country, and you certainly have a right to make your own decisions as you see fit, but if you describe your actions, and ask for advice, then expect to get it. Sometimes it may not be what you want to hear.

A firearm is not a license to make poor choices.

best post in the thread

cloud8a
June 8, 2009, 02:24 PM
So according to your logic you are supposed to avoid every strange and shady person by miles BECAUSE YOU HAVE A GUN. I do not agree. Like I said I do not live in the wilderness I live in a major city. There is a population of strange and shady people. Most of them are not even aware that they are strange and shady.

doh_312
June 8, 2009, 02:26 PM
I aint doggin on you cloud8. There have been many a situation where I reflect on it later and I would have changed many choices I made. Im sure I could tell you one of my experiences and you'd point out bad things I did. This is the way with everyone, we all look for specific things we deem nessecary for safety because of our past instances where we didn't feel safe.

Just wanted to clarify, I do not think I am holier (sp?)than thou. Just givin my two cents so you could do what I consider the "safer" thing to do next time.:)

djohn
June 8, 2009, 02:32 PM
Here is what I would have done differently.I would have picked up my cell dialed in the hotel manager and Informed Him or her of the shady looking man and called the police to investigate it.I would have not left my wife and children alone in a parking lot period,Gun or No gun.


Secondly any sleezy hotel that allows hoodlems or crack heads to linger outside or inside there establishment is one I would have passed on and searched elsewhere.

5whiskey
June 8, 2009, 02:38 PM
My take on this???

I tend to agree with WAs thought process. Our first rule as responsible, productive, and armed citizens... is to avoid any situation that looks shady enough to potentially turn into a SD situation. This is not to say you should always be afraid of your own shadow, or stand idly by while bad men do bad things. It is merely addressing the concern that if you can avoid putting your family in a situation such as described then that's probably the best approach. Avoiding a potential encounter is a wonderful thing.

I also agree with the OP that we shouldn't let criminals rule us by making us afraid to half the places in town. I get the thought process and agree with you to an extent. There is a fine line of rationale there that states "I can't run away from every possible situation, as I would always be running away". I get that and I sympathize with you. I do think that if the spider sense is going off like crazy, as it should have been in this situation, then I would probably try to remove myself from the situation before it lead to a firefight. A little prudence in the fore-end is better than Johnny Cochran after the fact ;)

Glenn E. Meyer
June 8, 2009, 02:47 PM
Ok, we have run its course.

Let me inform all concerned that we like you to focus on the issue. It is not your place to psychoanalyze or comment on others.

Point out your analysis and avoid the personal.


If you find them inappropriate, PM or hit the little report button for us.

I also caution that quote war bickering is going to get you nailed.

And since I seem to be the one here - I'm nailing this one. There are some reasonable tactics suggested. That's it.

Glenn