Tennessee Legislature Overrides Governor's Veto of Gun Bill

[Tennessee Gentleman]

Yesterday the Tennessee Legislature overrode Gov Bredensen's veto (first override ever for him) of a bill that allows CCW in places that serve alcohol. The bill specifies that if you carry in a place that serves alcohol you may not drink and that businesses (as they always could) may ban carry on private property.

The media of course is upset and keep repeating cliches such as "guns and alcohol don't mix", "drunks with guns in bars" and the ever popular "blood will run in streets". Of course the law doesn't allow for any of the above but I am glad there is yet another "place" taken off Gun Free Zone list where Law abiding citizens may carry legally. State parks are next.

[ov3r]

Congrats!

[Dragon55]

Although I do like our governor because he is one of those very rare 'conservative democrats' I'm glad he was over rode.
I thought it was very interesting that 3 newspapers I saw called it like a 'guns in bars' law. I was thinking more in line with an Applebees, O'Charlie's, or Ruby Tuesday's.

I haven't read the law. So, Tennessee Gentleman .... I still can't have a beer with a steak if I'm carrying?

[Tennessee Gentleman]

So, Tennessee Gentleman .... I still can't have a beer with a steak if I'm carrying?

You may not. I agree with you about Bredesen. He has been a good Governor but he was wrong on this bill. I hope he does not veto anymore of them.

[Dragon55]

Aww Nuts:(:(

[KLRANGL]

Lucky for you guys. Us Virginians have been trying for the same thing for a couple of years now. This is like the third year in a row it passed the legislators and was killed by the Gov. Luckily his term is up, so we'll see what happens next year.

I still think the "guns and alcohol doesnt mix" bit is pretty funny, considered is specifically states in the law: "no drinking while carrying concealed."

[OuTcAsT]

He has been a good Governor


That is funny right there ^^^ :D:D:D

[Kreyzhorse]

Finally, a "common sense" gun law that is, well, actually based on common sense! Congrats to Tennessee

[Tennessee Gentleman]

That is funny right there

You don't like Bredesen? I think he is the best Gov since Lamar Alexander.

[OuTcAsT]

You don't like Bredesen? I think he is the best Gov since Lamar Alexander.

He lost me with the 3.6 million dollar underground party crib, AND the fact he tried to block this legislation only makes me dislike him more.

On a side note, I wonder how many restaurants I'm gonna have to stop patronizing due to a no firearms policy? No gun, No $

[SigfanTN]

I am overjoyed that this legislation passed. Have been watching it very closely. See another thread here (http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=356149&page=3)

Dragon55, here is the text of the bill:

HOUSE BILL 962
By McCord
SENATE BILL 1127
By Jackson
AN ACT to amend Tennessee Code Annotated, Title 39,
Chapter 17, relative to firearms.
BE IT ENACTED BY THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF THE STATE OF TENNESSEE:
SECTION 1. Tennessee Code Annotated, Section 39-17-1305(c), is amended by
adding the following language as a new, appropriately designated subdivision:
(3)
(A) Authorized to carry a firearm under § 39-17-1351 who is not
consuming beer, wine or any alcoholic beverage, and is within the confines of a
restaurant that is open to the public, serves alcoholic beverages, wine or beer,
and is not an age-restricted venue as defined in § 39-17-1802.
(B) As used in this subdivision (c)(3), “restaurant” means any public
place kept, used, maintained, advertised and held out to the public as a place
where meals are served and where meals are actually and regularly served, such
place being provided with adequate and sanitary kitchen and dining room
equipment, having employed therein a sufficient number and kind of employees
to prepare, cook and serve suitable food for its guests. At least one (1) meal per
day shall be served at least five (5) days a week, with the exception of holidays,
vacations and periods of redecorating, and the serving of such meals shall be the
principal business conducted.
(C) This subdivision (c)(3) is subject to the provisions of § 39-17-1359,
permitting a property owner to post notices on such property prohibiting firearms.
SECTION 2. This act shall take effect upon becoming a law, the public welfare requiring
it.

It's funny to see all the press about the restaurants making up signs prohibiting firearms. They apparently haven't read the part of the TCA that specifies what sort of sign is legal. The international symbol for "no guns" doesn't work per the law.

You don't like Bredesen? I think he is the best Gov since Lamar Alexander.

I voted for Alexander for Senate. Unfortunately he voted against the amendment to the Credit Card bill allowing National Park carry. Bredesen (his assistant) did respond to my email regarding why he chose to veto. I'll spare you: supporter of the 2nd amendment, guns and alcohol don't mix, etc.

Outcast, I will be having several of those cards printed up. It has already been reported a quote from the owner of one of our favorite local restaurants, that he intends to post. He'll be the first recipient.:D

Have you read about how Nashville city council is trying to sidestep the law with their beer licensing? The CA reports about those efforts in todays article: http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2009/jun/04/guns--restaurants-bill-goes-effect-july-14-after-s/ :barf::barf:

I don't think that will be legal will it?

[OuTcAsT]

I don't think that will be legal will it?

I think you are going to see some of the same restaurant owners that were against the original bill climb over one another to fight this, Why come into Nashville to eat when I can easily go to any of the other cities around it to some of the same establishments, and not have to deal with "Krazy Karl's" (Mayor Dean) ideas? He will try to pass some "ordinance" but it will likely get shot down . :D Metro's for "tourists" anyways.

Oh, and I'm in Memphis a lot on business, as long as Top's and Corky's don't go NGA I'm good! :D

[Tennessee Gentleman]

He lost me with the 3.6 million dollar underground party crib,

Yeah, I think they should have bought the pot cave but he sure is better than Sunquist who wanted an income tax. Anyway, I see some use in that believe it or not and you know he fixed up the Gov's mansion with no taxes.

I like the Rendevouz.

[Playboypenguin]

They need to do that everywhere. We can carry in bars in portland but not across the river in Vancouver. That is why we never go to any bars in Vancouver.

[SigfanTN]

I found this:

link (http://www.michie.com/tennessee/lpext.dll/tncode/11660/1207c/123ce/12432?f=templates&fn=document-frame.htm&2.0#JD_39-17-1314)

39-17-1314. Local regulation of firearms and ammunition preempted by state regulation — Actions against firearms or ammunition manufacturers, trade associations or dealers. —


(a) No city, county, or metropolitan government shall occupy any part of the field of regulation of the transfer, ownership, possession or transportation of firearms, ammunition or components of firearms or combinations thereof; provided, that the provisions of this section shall be prospective only and shall not affect the validity of any ordinance or resolution lawfully enacted before April 8, 1986.

Anyone think that this means a city couldn't do something like Nashville is trying to do? Here from the CA article linked to in my other post above (emphasis mine):
Some Nashville Metro Council members are studying a proposal to use alcohol-control laws to keep handguns out of establishments that serve beer in Nashville and Davidson County, reports The Tennessean newspaper.

Council members believe the new law can be sidestepped by adding a restriction to beer permits. The restriction would prohibit businesses that hold beer permits from letting anyone bring a gun inside.

About 1,500 bars and restaurants would be covered by the restriction. Establishments that serve only wine or liquor — and no beer — would be exempt because they are regulated by the state, not Metro.

It does sound like a harebrained idea, though. I'm sure the CA is just trying to drum up support for a similar idea here. They have been nothing if not one-sided on the issue.

as long as Top's and Corky's don't go NGA I'm good!

That would be a tragedy since we're close enough to Corky's to hit the drive-through for some "fast food". Yes, I'll take a slab of dry ribs, please! :D:D They might have to be the exception, though. When you can take it home with you, who needs to go in anyway? No law against carrying in the drive-through.:cool:

[OuTcAsT]

Yes, I'll take a slab of dry ribs, please!

I'm 3 hours from Memphis and hate the ones here...Besides I'M HUNGRY, SHUT YOUR MOUTH !!! ;)


They might have to be the exception, though.


See, You're already caving ! :eek::D

[209]

Good use of the override by the TN Leg folks!

TN is on my short list of places to move when I retire. Hopefully, they'll keep on passing laws like this.

[Tom Servo]

This bodes well for the Firearms Freedom Act, which was overwhelmingly passed (http://www.tenthamendmentcenter.com/2009/06/03/tennessee-firearms-freedom-act-passes-both-houses/) in both the state House and Senate this week.

Even if Bredesen vetoes it, they have the votes to override that as well.

[Dragon55]

Thanx Tom Servo for alerting to that 10th amendment site. It will be interesting to see how using the 10th amendment to assert 2nd amendment rights plays out.

I wonder about the ammo I 'manufacture' from 'basic' materials.

Also, I wonder how many manufacturers of firearms and firearms related goods are currently inside TN borders.

[OuTcAsT]

Local news agencies reporting that Mayor Dean's attempt at an end run around State law was deemed illegal, so Nashville will be just like everyone else ! :)

[SigfanTN]

Good news! Time to run he and his council members out of town in the next election. :)

Our mayor hasn't had anything to say about the measure, King Willie can only be defensive and turn everything into a racial issue, so not much for him to say on this one. Councilman Myron Lowry, though said they will "explore a way to urge restaurants to post their premises." The council also passed a measure in committee to ban firearms in local parks, but the full council is scheduled to vote on this later this month. Of course the Governor has until Friday to decide whether or not he'll sign, veto, or simply allow that one to become law by doing nothing.

[SigfanTN]

Wanted to add this also:

One of the CA columnists said in this column (http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2009/jun/07/palates-preferring-gun-free-03) that:
I won't eat where fellow diners are packing heat.

She has a blog and wrote about another where they are cataloging the posted eateries. Good way for us to keep up with where not to go. :barf::barf:

http://saferestaurantstennessee.blogspot.com/

http://eatgunfreetn.wordpress.com/

How sad for them. I guess they'll be saving a lot of money on dining out. :D

[chemgirlie]

Next time I eat out I'm going to go to Ruby Tuesday's. I'd like to thank that website for putting up a list of where not to eat. I'm sure any potential robbers appreciate it too.
http://saferestaurantstennessee.blogspot.com/2009/06/ruby-tuesdays-doesnt-want-our-business.html

[johnwilliamson062]

Ohio is also about to join the states allowing carry in Restaurants, hopefully.

[OuTcAsT]

Wanted to add this also:

One of the CA columnists said in this column that:
Quote:
I won't eat where fellow diners are packing heat.
She has a blog and wrote about another where they are cataloging the posted eateries. Good way for us to keep up with where not to go.

http://saferestaurantstennessee.blogspot.com/

http://eatgunfreetn.wordpress.com/


My comment to them,

Thanks for posting this list of establishments that will not be allowing firearms, This should make it much easier for me to find the places that I feel safe to take my family, and money, as the places posted here have all but advertised that their staff, and customers are now fair game for criminals. Kudos.


Probably get "moderated" off their site, but Oh Well :p

[OuTcAsT]

Now that this law has finally been enacted, and is in full force, businesses are going crazy about where they stand.
I wrote a letter to the editor of our county's largest newspaper, and it was published yesterday;

LOCAL EATERIES IN A QUANDRY OVER GUN LAWS



As most may not be aware, as of Tuesday, July 14, 2009 Anyone with a legally issued Tennessee handgun carry permit may carry their concealed handgun into a restaurant that serves alcohol, as long as they are not drinking. This new law seems to have some local shopkeepers nervous. They are anxious enough that they are posting signs telling law-abiding citizens that their policy is, basically “We are not interested in the safety or well being of our employees or customers” Certainly the outcry from these businesses will be
“Oh, No, just the opposite” But that policy, while well-meaning, may have some un-intended consequences. The handgun carry permit system was put in place so that good, honest, citizens, could apply for a permit, and, once qualified by passing a background check, a safety course that not only teaches safe handling, and the laws regarding carrying a weapon, but requires that you prove your proficiency in handling the firearm before that permit is issued. Why would someone want to carry a gun? The simple answer is, because a police officer is too heavy to carry. Those who go through this rigorous process realize that the responsibility for the safety and security of our family, and, ourselves, is our own, and when bad things happen, you usually will have only seconds to react in a way that can save yours, or someone else’s life. I saw a response in the newspaper about how some shopkeeper was concerned with the liability issues. I respond by saying that you, yourself are creating a liability issue by banning legally carried firearms in your establishment. When you place a sign on your door saying that legally carried concealed firearms are not welcome, then I must give up my right to defend myself if I enter your establishment. Who is responsible for my safety while I am in your business? Technically now, you are. Another unintended consequence of your sign is that you have just assured a criminal that there are no firearms in your establishment, your customers and staff, are unarmed, and are therefore “fair game”.
If I were a criminal which establishment do you think I would want to target, the eatery where law abiding citizens and their families may be armed? Or the one with a sign that tells me nobody is armed. ? Some have argued that this new law will hurt your business, I will agree. Those businesses that will not allow me to exercise my lawful right to self defense will certainly not see my money. I will not give up my rights for a meal that I can enjoy at an establishment that recognizes the rights of paying customers.


While many restaurants have no problem with it, Applebees, Outback, Chili's, and a few local joints, have all posted signs. Might be good to get a list together so we'll know where NOT to eat.

[Ares]

Correct me if I am wrong, I was told that no gun signs had absolutely no legal backing and the worst they could do was kick you out of the establishment. Except for schools, courthouses and the like of course..

[OuTcAsT]

I was told that no gun signs had absolutely no legal backing and the worst they could do was kick you out of the establishment.

Basically, that is correct, however you risk "trespass" or "breech of peace" charges if you press the issue. Either way, why not simply avoid those places in favor of businesses that welcome you? But make sure to stop by and tell them why you will not be eating at their establishment.

Unless they get the message that no guns=no funds, they will continue this practice.

[mskdgunman]

Lucky for me, I haven't run into this issue (yet). In the event I do, I figure that so long as I do my part and keep the weapon concealed like I should, why should I disturb the owners delicate sensibilities with the issue. I'll carry and not say a word about it. Should a situation arise thats bad enough for me to need the weapon, then I could really give a **** about his no guns allowed sign. That will be the least of my concerns. In other words, what the business does not know won't get me in trouble and as long as I don't cause any problems, I'll probably be ok.

[langenc]

For all those that spew the "guns and alcohol" line just tell them "I (we) are not Teddy."

[RDak]

Congratulations TG!! :)

[JustDreadful]

In Nevada, not only may we carry in restaurants, bars and casinos, but even while drinking

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

as long as we're under .10 BAC.


And yet, somehow, every NV town doesn't turn into Fallujah every Friday and Saturday night. A miracle, surely.

[rwilson452]

In PA we can carry in bars and restaurants. No Guns signs can have the old trespass issues. Legally, there is no BAC limit.

[SigfanTN]

Correct me if I am wrong, I was told that no gun signs had absolutely no legal backing and the worst they could do was kick you out of the establishment. Except for schools, courthouses and the like of course..

In the restaurant bill that is now law, I believe violating a restaurants wishes which posts the correct sign is a Class A misdemeanor charge which could result in up to a $500 fine and potentially losing ones permit.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong on this, but this is my understanding of the penalty for ignoring the sign, if caught.

[maestro pistolero]

One of the CA columnists said in this column that:
Quote:
I won't eat where fellow diners are packing heat.
She has a blog and wrote about another where they are cataloging the posted eateries. Good way for us to keep up with where not to go.

http://saferestaurantstennessee.blogspot.com/

http://eatgunfreetn.wordpress.com/


This is a hit-list for criminals!

[macville]

In the restaurant bill that is now law, I believe violating a restaurants wishes which posts the correct sign is a Class A misdemeanor charge which could result in up to a $500 fine and potentially losing ones permit.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong on this, but this is my understanding of the penalty for ignoring the sign, if caught.

That is correct if they post a LEGAL sign in TN. The thing is, 99.9% of places simply post, no guns allowed, or a sign that has a gun with a slash through it. The legal sign has to be certain text that refers to the TN code about law. However, any business can ask you at any time to leave and if you don't, you can be charged with trespassing.

Matthew