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View Full Version : Trigger System suggestions for AR-15?


cshreffler
May 19, 2009, 02:28 PM
What is a good replacement trigger for my LMT Standard 16" AR? I really like what I've read about the Gold Trigger System, but its a little more money than I'd like to spend and I have no experience with it.

Does anyone have comments on the Gold Trigger or any other suggestions?

Thanks!

rjrivero
May 19, 2009, 02:31 PM
Why not do one yourself?

http://www.sargenthome.com/15_Minute_AR_Trigger_Job.htm

DBAR
May 19, 2009, 02:35 PM
Rock River 2 stage trigger is probably the easiest, and least expensive. It's reliable, predicatable, and durable. Not the sweetest trigger, but a very good improvement.

You could spend more on others, and get really good results. I hear CMMG has a good trigger, but I've never tried it. I have the RRA's trigger, and a couple of Jard triggers working for me. The Jards are a bit of a pain in the ass to get adjusted, but they work great after all is said, and done.

There are a lot of different triggers out there, and there will be more suggestions. Maybe someone that has experience with the Gold Trigger will come along.

DBAR

precision_shooter
May 19, 2009, 02:38 PM
If you want a 2-stage trigger (which I prefer) then Rock River's is about the best for the money.

If you want a single stage trigger then the Jewel is a good one.

sneaky pete
May 19, 2009, 03:56 PM
old Sneaky Pete here: Been shooting since '52 and after spending 30 years in the US military I've shot most everything from BB guns to 8" Self-propelled Howitzers. Used a lot of 2-stage triggers (on M1Garands and M-16s) and I can't stand them ever since I got my hands on a couple of good single stage units. JP Enterprises has an outstanding 3# Fire control systm that I had them install on my '73 Colt SP-1 and it is really sweet But a little costly. BUT this year on a stripped Lower Receiver build I decided to go with a real light single stage for target shooting and I went with the JARD adjustable 1>1-1/2# trigger that I bought from Midway USA for $147.99 +S&H. Although the set-up and adjustment is detailed IF you follow the instructions that come with the unit (with 1 exception) they are incredably sweet with no take-up or over-travel. The 1 exception is I don't use the "Blue" locktite CUZ with the blue you have to back off your adjustment-apply the blue then RE-Adjust. Instead i adjust the unit exactly like I want it and then I use GREEN-Locktite which creeps down into the threads and sets them without moving anything. I have regularly "Cleaned" matches with that new JARD and recommend it to everyone. THANX--SNEAKY:)

3StrikesNC
May 19, 2009, 07:20 PM
I did a Jewell two-stage,

http://www.midwayusa.com/ebrowse.exe/brandlisting?brandid=1528

I think it's great. Drastic improvement in my M&P 15.

DBAR
May 19, 2009, 08:09 PM
I went with the JARD adjustable 1>1-1/2# trigger

sneaky pete,

That's a little light for my taste. I like them around 3lbs, but then again you probably shoot long range competition. 3lbs is better for 3 gun.

DBAR

HJ857
May 20, 2009, 04:08 PM
I use a Jewell two stage as well. I like it because you can adjust pretty much every aspect of the trigger. One thing about light triggers is that it's easy to bumpfire them by accident if you don't have good trigger control or aren't paying attention. Having adjustability, especially on the second stage is nice to have.

comn-cents
May 20, 2009, 04:15 PM
Chip drop in.

Alleykat
May 20, 2009, 04:51 PM
I'm using the RRA NM two-stage and the JP trigger/hammer combo. Much prefer the JP. My JP pulls at around 3.5#.

bedlamite
May 20, 2009, 08:24 PM
Decent all around trigger on a budget? Rock River 2 stage
Benchrest rifle? Jewell 2 stage
Cost is no object when your life depends on it? Guisselle

cshreffler
May 28, 2009, 02:37 PM
Two questions:

1. The Geissele seems to have a heavier first stage and a lighter second stage... this is different than the others is it not? Can't wrap my head around that one... Does anyone have any specifics?

2. Does anyone have a URL for the Jewell Manufacturer's web site?

lipadj46
May 28, 2009, 03:15 PM
There is a guy that does AR trigger jobs cheap forget his name but I have it in my email. PM me if you want the info.

HJ857
May 28, 2009, 04:04 PM
My Jewell has a lighter first stage and a heavier second. It can be adjusted so that the second stage is not apparent and works like a single stage, it can also be adjusted so light that it won't light off the round.

Dallas Jack
May 28, 2009, 05:03 PM
I bought the Timney singe stage. Works for me.
Dallas Jack

wdelack
May 29, 2009, 06:07 PM
I've tried the Gold Trigger in a couple different ARs and have been very pleased with the results. I have a Jewell trigger in one of my Remington 700s and found them to be excellent triggers as well. Both the Gold and Jewell compare favorably with the Target AccuTrigger in my Savage F/TR.

cshreffler
July 10, 2009, 10:47 AM
For those that are interested, I ended up purchasing and installing a Geissele Service Weight Trigger.

Completely awesome Trigger. Would be hard pressed to consider anything else after having fired this one.

Dallas Jack
July 10, 2009, 12:08 PM
Was it very hard to install? I looked at a Geissele but I wasn't sure I could install it. I ended up with a Timney. It works fine and was very easy to install. Good luck with your new trigger.
Dallas Jack

Alleykat
July 10, 2009, 12:12 PM
Can't imagine that any trigger for an AR would be hard to install.

Dallas Jack
July 10, 2009, 12:34 PM
That's how I felt about it but looking at a picture of the Geissele the half moon piece with the notches and spring kind of threw me. I may have thought different if I had one in my hand to look at. You are right in that every trigger I have put in was a simple install.
Dallas Jack

cshreffler
July 10, 2009, 02:12 PM
No, it was not difficult to install at all. The trigger came with a hand punch that is used to hold the components in place while you insert the permanent pins.

It was a 'little' difficult dealing with the hammer spring tension, but other than that it was very easy to install.

ISP 5353
July 10, 2009, 02:24 PM
Jewel two stage. Easy to install and very adjustable.

overkill556x45
July 10, 2009, 02:31 PM
I think the Rock River Arms 2-stage is the best mix of a light pull and a rugged design. There are no set screws to back out or get stripped. There are lighter and crisper triggers out there, but the RRA is the best light/rugged mix for a pretty good price. I think I got mine for around $120 shipped a year or so ago.

On a side note, my AR shooting buddy has an RRA M4gery and I have an M&P15. Between us, we have about a case and a half of Wolf Military Classic through our rifles using the RRA two-stage triggers. I have heard a handful of stories where someone has adjusted their trigger too low or bubba'd a trigger so that it wouldn't always tap the primer hard enough. I think if the RRA was going to produce light primer strikes, it would have done it on the Wolf steel case stuff. We also have put a bunch of PRVI Partisan and actual surplus (not brand name) M193 through our rifles. No problems at all.

Alleykat
July 10, 2009, 04:16 PM
I have heard a handful of stories where someone has adjusted their trigger too low or bubba'd a trigger so that it wouldn't always tap the primer hard enough. I think if the RRA was going to produce light primer strikes, it would have done it on the Wolf steel case stuff. We also have put a bunch of PRVI Partisan and actual surplus (not brand name) M193 through our rifles. No problems at all.
overkill556x45 is offline Report Post

If one follows the instructions that come with the JP trigger, one will use red (271) Loctite on the setscrews. They won't come out!! Also, regardless of how one adjusts the engagement and overtravel on the JP set, the strength of the hammer strike isn't affected. So much for the "light strike" theories. Friends don't let friends shoot Wolf ammo! :D

Gewehr98
July 10, 2009, 05:25 PM
I installed a JP Enterprises single-stage trigger in my Colt AR.

It breaks like the proverbial glass rod. :D

ForneyRider
July 11, 2009, 09:42 PM
I added JP Enterprises springs and DPMS anti-walk pins. Shooting the rifle a bunch will help smooth it out.

I dry fired Helz McFugly's Jewell trigger and it was very light.

TheManHimself
July 12, 2009, 12:29 PM
The RRA is decent for the price, but be aware that in some batches the pin that holds the disconnector in place is soft and can cause the two-stage trigger to abruptly turn into a long single stage. Some do and some don't; typically if it hasn't happened by the 2000 round mark it probably isn't going to.

ADCO sells an upgraded version of the RRA two-stage with the factory disconnector pin replaced with a press-fit hardened tool steel pin that eliminates this problem, although they are currently backordered pretty significantly.

Magi
July 12, 2009, 12:37 PM
Why not do one yourself?

http://www.sargenthome.com/15_Minute_AR_Trigger_Job.htm

Following this "15-minute trigger job" is not advisable.

NEVER clip either leg of your hammer spring, or any other spring, for that matter. Springs certainly can be "worked" to reduce tension, but clipping them is not an advisable option. Ever.

sholling
July 12, 2009, 12:43 PM
Was it very hard to install? I looked at a Geissele but I wasn't sure I could install it. I ended up with a Timney. It works fine and was very easy to install. Good luck with your new trigger.
Dallas Jack Not difficult but not the idiot simple drop in that a RRA is. Geissele includes excellent instructions and that helps a lot. But it's not a job for somebody that isn't comfortable with tools or isn't mechanically inclined. The final adjustments are important and do take a tiny bit of knowledge and a fair amount of common sense. My safety did take a tiny bit of dremel work to widen the slot. Modifying a safety isn't for the faint of heart, the mentally challenged or a hacker. If you know what you're doing it's a DYI job, if not a smith will probably charge $30-50 to install and adjust one. I took my time with the installation of my DMR and love it.

Alleykat
July 12, 2009, 05:51 PM
I've always had to fit the JP trigger to the safety on the JP installations that I've done. No big deal. You don't work on the safety; you work on the trigger. If you do mess up a safety, so what! What does a safety selector cost?? :eek:

Dood_22
July 12, 2009, 09:26 PM
Two questions:

1. The Geissele seems to have a heavier first stage and a lighter second stage... this is different than the others is it not? Can't wrap my head around that one... Does anyone have any specifics?

No, that is pretty standard. The idea is that you want all the weight in the first stage so that when you are hanging on the second while doing the final alignment of your sights, it only takes a little more pressure to break the trigger.

Think of it as stacking weight - it gets heavier the more you pull until it breaks.

S&W revolvers are like that in DA. The weight stacks until you hit a definite stop, you align the sights and BAM! Pull the last little bit.

A 2 stage trigger's pull weight is really the sum of the first and second stage. On a Service Rifle with a 4 1/2lb requirement, most are set up so that there is 3 1/2lbs in the first stage and only a pound left in the second. Once you pull through the first stage, it's like shooting a 1lb single stage! But, if you hang a weight off the trigger, it takes 4 1/2lbs of weight to make it break.

2-Stage triggers are a safety feature as well. With automatic rifles, the pounding of the action can cause light single stage triggers to slam fire. A 2-stage gives you enough sear engagement to prevent that, yet still allows a light, target-grade pull.

jcsmith
August 9, 2009, 04:47 PM
Just a couple comments. Dallas Jack, you are confusing the Geissele trigger with the Jewell. It’s the Jewell that has the notched half moon. The Geissele looks fairly standard (but wow, it definitely doesn’t feel standard). You can set both the first and second stage weights with the Geissele match triggers as well as the sear engagement. They aren’t hard to install but it takes a bit of time to get them set up right. I bought mine from Rainier Arms and it came with extra springs so you can set it up as a service rifle trigger, match rifle trigger or DMR trigger. It also came with the necessary tools and even a bottle of oil and small tube of grease. Not sure if Rainier added those or they came from the mfgr.

The guy lipadj46 it probably thinking of is Bill Springfield. He does triggers for the Air Force Academy combat rifle team and others. His standard 4# trigger job is just $35 and his “deluxe” job is $50, which gets you a crisp 3# trigger with a new set of JP match springs and a “speed hammer” mod included. You only need to send him the trigger, hammer and disconnector. Return shipping included in prices.

Back in the pre-ban days I built an AR-15 for a friend who ended up wanting a better trigger pull. All these aftermarket triggers were not available then so we tried it ourselves. We got a nice crisp pull in the shop (don’t recall the weight but probably ~3 lbs.) but when he took it to the range it went full auto on him. Other than a little smoothing of engagement surfaces that was my first and last AR trigger job. Yes, we tossed that trigger and installed a new, stock trigger. Some triggers are fairly easy for an amateur gunsmith to work on and spectacular results can be had (the T/C Contender for example) but ARs are a different ballgame.

Just FYI, if you research triggers on some of the dedicated AR forum sites you will find that if cost is no object virtually everyone recommends the Geissele triggers, but I’d still like to see some reports from folks who have tried the Geissele side-by-side with some of the other high-end units.

emcon5
August 9, 2009, 05:01 PM
I have a Jewell and an Armalite, both 2 stage triggers. The Armalite is good, the Jewell is outstanding.

jcsmith
August 9, 2009, 05:18 PM
Anyone remember the set triggers Oly Arms had on their Ultramatch guns? You would push forward on the safety lever to set it and it gave you an 8 oz. single stage pull. Nothing you would want when the SHTF but fine for popping varmints.

Alleykat
August 9, 2009, 05:19 PM
EVER clip either leg of your hammer spring, or any other spring, for that matter. Springs certainly can be "worked" to reduce tension, but clipping them is not an advisable option. Ever.
__________________

Sounds authoritative, all right, but I've clipped some hammer springs and it's always worked for me...for thousands of rounds. :cool:

jcsmith
August 9, 2009, 05:34 PM
Just curious, why clip the hammer spring? To reduce the drag the sear puts on the trigger? Seems like it would slow down the hammer and maybe cause light primer strikes. It’s usually the trigger spring that gets worked on (that’s how you fine tune the first stage pull on a Giessele trigger… and others).

sholling
August 9, 2009, 06:11 PM
A few days ago I installed a Geissele SSA non-adjustable 2-stage "combat" trigger. They label it a combat trigger because it's meant to be as rugged as a GI trigger but as light and sweet as their Adjustable DMR trigger. Installation was very simple with no modifications to the rifle or safety. Mine has a 2-1/2lb 1st stage and a 2lb 2nd stage and is nearly as perfect as the DMR I have in another build.

Dallas Jack
August 9, 2009, 08:29 PM
jcsmith, you are absolutely right. It was the Jewell I had looked at. At any rate the Timney worked out great for me. I've since bought three more Timney's to put in my Vanguards.
Dallas Jack

jcsmith
August 10, 2009, 07:18 PM
Hi Jack - I wish we lived close. I'd like to trade guns for a few rounds. The Geissele is an awsome trigger but I'd like to try the Timney (especially since the big retooling they did) and a few others too.

teeroux
August 10, 2009, 08:08 PM
Sounds authoritative, all right, but I've clipped some hammer springs and it's always worked for me...for thousands of rounds.

You may get a lighter trigger but you reduce the lock time which can adversely affect accuracy even worse or as bad as a heavy trigger to start with.;)

Dallas Jack
August 10, 2009, 08:15 PM
jcsmith, yeah I would like the same. I had heard a lot of good things about the Geissele trigger but have never had a chance to try one.
Dallas Jack

Ridge_Runner_5
August 11, 2009, 09:25 PM
There is a guy that does AR trigger jobs cheap forget his name but I have it in my email. PM me if you want the info.

Bill Springfield

ARenthusiast
December 15, 2009, 03:48 PM
The AR GOLD is by far the best trigger. Not only does it surpass the triggers in reset, pull-weight, safety, and durability, it also is a drop-in making it simple to install.