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View Full Version : Do we kill her?


David Armstrong
May 15, 2009, 10:59 AM
"A University of Arizona Police Department officer reported that he had finished working around 5 a.m. and headed home. After being there for approximately five minutes, he heard a knock at his door. The officer had not locked his door behind him, and when he looked to see who was there, he saw a girl with no shoes and unkempt hair.

She yelled at the officer to let her in because she had to use the bathroom. The officer said no, that he did not know her and she should use the public bathroom at the Circle K convenience store down the street. She replied, "No, I really have to pee, and this is where the party is at."

The woman attempted to make her way into the house. She pushed the door open and said, "I really need to use your bathroom," as she tried to push the officer aside so she could get past him."
****************************************************
I posted this in the Law and Civil Rights forum, but I thought a cross-post here might be interesting for the tactics issue instead of the "what crime do we have" issue. So, assuming you are not an officer, and that the young lady continues to try to enter, what do you do? Assuming she has already entered your house and refuses to leave, what do you do? Does it change if she is attractive, well-dressed, etc? Does it change if she is a guy?

zxcvbob
May 15, 2009, 11:20 AM
If she's already in the house I'd probably let her go to the bathroom and tell her when she's done she's gotta leave or I'm calling the cops. Then maybe call 911 while she's in there.

A guy wouldn't do that, he'd just pee on the bushes.

Dragon55
May 15, 2009, 11:20 AM
My reflex answer is she ain't gettin' in.... at least with the 'I gotta pee' excuse (ploy?).

If I hadn't locked the door (which we rarely do around here) and she had already entered I would halfway expect some cohorts to be close behind. I would definitely be getting armed asap and calling the cops.

It really doesn't change for me as far as appearance or gender. She or he is stranger in my house uninvited.

I think it's mostly about the 'I gotta pee' thing.

If it was someone(maybe a child) that looked really scared and said something like 'They're after me and I'm afraid' the human in me would have to let them enter until the situation could be sorted out.

bigghoss
May 15, 2009, 11:31 AM
she's getting thrown out of my place, literally if need be.

but the situation would need to escalate beyond this for me to draw on her.

I live in an apartment complex and I can't tell you how many guys have already peed outside my door...

raftman
May 15, 2009, 11:33 AM
Sure that kind of behavior would be most unwelcome, but if that's all there is to the story, it certainly isn't something worth taking a life over. If she gets into the house, that would definitely be ample reason to call the police and keep a close eye out for anything potentially dangerous until the police arrive. With such a bizarre situation, I would think the police would be better at sorting things out.

KingEdward
May 15, 2009, 11:37 AM
1) lock door

2) escort her to the bath room

3) she does her business but bathroom door stays open

4) escort her back to the door

5) she's out, no words, close and lock door

6) for the next 1/2 hour or so, check for any others or
loiters around front door.

KingEdward
May 15, 2009, 11:39 AM
7) do not kill her unless you perceive from her actions immediate threat of harm or injury.

publius
May 15, 2009, 11:46 AM
Not really sure what I would do, scenario(1)maybe draw but not aim at her, make her sit down and check outside first. scenario (2) immobilize her, (bearhug, full nelson, headlock), point out bathroom and tell her to go meanwhile retreiving weapon to make sure you are ready if she comes out with a weapon or if others are following. When she is finished explain to her how stupid she is and she could easily get killed pulling crap like that.

curt.45
May 15, 2009, 11:46 AM
I'd have the cops there asap just incase she tries anything once shes in.

assuming she manages to get in, I think I could keep most girl's with no shoes and unkempt hair out of my house.

Nate1778
May 15, 2009, 11:49 AM
If I were single it would depend on what she looked like.........:eek:

Glenn E. Meyer
May 15, 2009, 11:53 AM
I keep thinking that this was Anne Heche in her underwear. Take pictures and sell to the Enquirer.

I think the best answer is not to open the door. However, Mr. Stupid (moi) once did this and forceful language got some crazy teenager to leave. Learned my lesson.

Command voice and repeated commands to leave as I generate some distance between us. I also could hit the alarm panic button.

I would avoid physical contact like a bearhug - never know when a knife comes out.

madmo44mag
May 15, 2009, 11:56 AM
If I were single it would depend on what she looked like.........

I can't stop laughing:D

What's married got to do with anything??

Hate to say if she came through the door she would be going right back out at gun point.

A child is another story but an adult that makes a bad decision could end up dead.

grymster2007
May 15, 2009, 12:03 PM
Anyone coming to my door late at night probably just coulda' peed in the yard somewhere. It's isolated just enough that it would probably go unnoticed, so I would be highly suspicious of anyone that showed up; male of female. I think I would turn away any male. For a female, it might well depend on how she was dressed.... and how cute she was.... and how soundly Mrs. Grymster was sleeping. :)

I like living dangerously!

Creature
May 15, 2009, 12:14 PM
She is gathering intel for the BG who is waiting down the street. Dont let her in. She can answer the call of nature just like the boys can...in the bushes.

You're leaving out a lot of pertinent details. How did she "push her way in"?...did she bust down the door? In which case, at a minimum, she would be guilty of forced entry...

KingEdward
May 15, 2009, 12:15 PM
Do we kill her?

no. with a caveat that she does not become a threat within the home.

I would probably keep my HD weapon in my strong hand but muzzle down
while she was "using the bathroom". She would see it and it would probably sober the situation a bit.

the main priorities would be A) securing the door so no one else "popped in" and b) watch her hands and use verbal instructions until she is escorted back out.

I had this happen at a cabin while on vacation once. It was a teenage girl.

She did the bathroom trip with door open and HD weapon was presented but
not pointed at her. She was kind of giggly when she knocked on the door
but once inside, she quietly tcb and left.

fender1974
May 15, 2009, 12:20 PM
I don't think I'd draw right away on her, but coming in uninvited she would not be. You have to wonder, once she was in, would she then cry "Help/Rape" towards the person letting her in? Who needs the added pressure of someone coming into their home under false pretense and then making false accusations against them. It's a strange world that we live in and who knows what the mental condition of a "stranger" (female or male) coming to my door at is actually in. With the exception of someone (child or adult) coming to my front door scared and obviously in need of help, unless you're invited, you're not coming in.

ecw7907
May 15, 2009, 12:20 PM
In my state we have the castle law so it's alright to kill her

Slopemeno
May 15, 2009, 12:21 PM
What is this obsession with answering the door?

I look though the peephole and I don't know you? Sorry, Im back to the couch...

Wildalaska
May 15, 2009, 12:22 PM
If I were single it would depend on what she looked like..

My thoughts exactly.

Now I gots to go find the other thread so I can read all the: ANYONE WHO COMES INTO MY HOUSE UNIVITED IS LEAVING IN A BODY BAG AFTER I BLOW THEM TO SMITHEREENS WITH MY 870!

WildgeelifeissocomplexsometimesisntitAlaska ™

David Armstrong
May 15, 2009, 12:24 PM
Interesting responses, given all the "anybody that tries to get into my house I'll shoot them" and such posturing on many other threads. And I notice most have avoided commenting on if the response changes if it is a guy.

grymster2007
May 15, 2009, 12:29 PM
And I notice most have avoided commenting on if the response changes if it is a guy. Is that good or bad?

oh... and I like this.... very matter of fact...
In my state we have the castle law so it's alright to kill her

OuTcAsT
May 15, 2009, 12:29 PM
In my state we have the castle law so it's alright to kill her

Wow, Just...Wow. I HOPE this was an attempt at a joke, if not then you might want to take the time to read your local laws, the "Castle Law" is not a license to kill. My state also has a castle law, and no duty to retreat, but many criteria would have to be met before I could just execute someone.

Creature
May 15, 2009, 12:31 PM
I don't think I'd draw right away on her, but coming in uninvited she would not be. You have to wonder, once she was in, would she then cry "Help/Rape" or whatever? It's a strange world that we live in and with the exception of someone (child or adult) coming to my front door scared and needing help, unless you're invited, you're not coming in.

Why would a woman in fear for her life even take the time to attempt to "lie" her way in to a stranger's home with a "I have to pee" story?

KingEdward
May 15, 2009, 12:34 PM
would response change if it was a guy?

not for me if he was already in the house.

if he becomes threat before or after draining lizard, I have solution in my hand.

This scenario really reminds me just how important immediately locking a door can be. I keep all doors locked while mowing grass and keys in my pocket.
I even lock door behind me both ways while bringing in multiple bags from the grocery store.

Any unlocked door could become a nightmare. So lock it. as soon as you close it.

Probably more important than all of our "tactical" gear and what if gun ideas.

dipper
May 15, 2009, 12:42 PM
Do we kill her??
REALLY is this a serious question??

Well, um, NO!!

The door does not get opened, she doesn't get in and if she persists, the police get called.

If someone is foolish enough to open( or leave it unlocked) the door and she attempted to push past, I'd grab a handful of her hair and get her right back out.

Could have been a innocent young lady that was stoned or drunk or could have been a setup---either way, at 5 AM, she ain't getting in.

BikerRN
May 15, 2009, 12:49 PM
Interesting scenario, and for some will provide much "food for thought."

I've never been in the "Shoot them all" camp, but I am somewhat distant and cold to people I don't know at times. It all depends upon the situation. With that said, she can argue all she wants, but she is not gaining further entry in to the house and 911 will be called, even if I have to take the phone off the hook, dial 911, and set the phone down.

There are a lot of variables here and how the situation plays out will depend upon the instigator of the actions, the female. Since I always have a gun accessable to me when I am at home, my hand may or may not be on my gun. They say "Looks can kill" and maybe her's can. She may be a diversion and her co-horts are waiting just outside the door, or she may be just what she is, an intoxicated female that has to pee.

People tend to get stupid when they get drunk. Male ot female, I don't like dealing with intoxicated individuals. Like I said, I don't believe she will be gaining further entry in to the house and 911 will be called. Beyond that I can't tell you what I would do, as the situation is not happening yet.

Biker

AZAK
May 15, 2009, 12:56 PM
There may be a reason that this has never happened to me, and I doubt that it ever will: dogs.

In this scenario if she really had to go, after hearing and seeing the dogs, one way or the other she would not have to any longer.

So no, no need to kill her. And I for one am not in the mindset of "killing" anyone. Loaded question! (Pun intended.)

BlueTrain
May 15, 2009, 12:58 PM
You folks would make the best neighbors. I grew up in a small town near the railroad and answering the door to people asking for handouts. I guess times change.

erwos
May 15, 2009, 01:03 PM
Um, no?

Where has this woman presented anything remotely resembling a clear and present danger to you?

You can make up a hundred imagined scenarios about "the guys waiting in the bushes" or "the knife in her bra", but there's not a chance in hell that would hold up in court without any of them actually playing out. Grab your gun, sure, call the cops, definitely, but shoot her? There's simply no moral or legal justification .

College wasn't so far off for me; I remember this kinda thing happening all the time, guys and girls. You always learn to lock your door in a college party town. :)

Vanya
May 15, 2009, 01:15 PM
This scenario really reminds me just how important immediately locking a door can be.

Yes, indeedy. I come home, go inside, let the dog out if she hasn't been with me -- and the door gets locked, even while she's out in the yard.

If someone comes to my door at that hour (or any other, for that matter -- I don't let strangers into my house), I'm not letting them in, regardless of gender, regardless of reason she or he "needs" to come in. If it's a woman in fear of her life and I have some reason to believe that she's in danger, I'll gladly call the cops, stay on the phone with them, and keep an eye out, but even (especially) if she has trouble after her in the form of a big guy with a weapon -- sorry, but I'm not going to make myself his target also.

If she gets in, the one time I don't lock the door (no one's perfect), she gets "You need to leave now" in my very best command voice, and if she doesn't leave right goshdarn then, I'm on the phone to 911. But no weapons are coming out unless she actually threatens me; if she doesn't comply with an order to leave, I may be out the door myself until the cops come, after a look around to see if she has "friends" anywhere nearby -- I see no reason to expose myself to risk by staying in the house with her if she's refusing to leave, and I have no investment in proving how tough I am. And if it's a guy, not much changes in this scenario, except that given the likely disparity in strength between me and pretty much any guy, I'd be even more likely to get the hell away.

But, um, no, I'm not going to kill her, or even show a weapon. Nothing in the scenario, as given, would remotely justify it.

kazanski612
May 15, 2009, 01:36 PM
What is this obsession with answering the door?

I look though the peephole and I don't know you? Sorry, Im back to the couch...
That's my favorite response yet. Perfect. If she persists, that's what 9-1-1 is for.

madmo44mag
May 15, 2009, 01:49 PM
I said I'd send her or anyone that came in my house uninvited back out at gun point.
I never said I'd shoot her without due cause.
My reasoning is simple.
If she is a BG tool to distract me, recon my house or whatever, I just sent a very strong message that I will not tolerate unauthorized intrusion into my living space.
Being the victim of violent crime myself I can only say that experience has taught me that until you know for sure there is no treat do not ASSUME all is well.
I did once and it dam near cost me my life!!!!!

Wildalaska
May 15, 2009, 01:54 PM
KILL HER KILL HER

SHE IS IN YOUR HOME. FOLKS WHO ENTER YOUR CASTLE SHOULD BE IMMEDIATELY SHOT. NO EXCEPTIONS!

KILL KILL KILL. THATS WHY YOU WEAR YOUR GUN 24/7. FOR STUFF LIKE THIS!!! ITS A HOME INVASION!!!

KILL KILL KILL...JUDGED BY 12 INSTEAD OF CARRIED BY 6!!!!!!!!!FROM MY COLD DEAD FINGERS! SHES A GOBLIN! WHAT PART OF SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED DONT YOU UNDERSTAND?

WildlethtatbealessontothemassesAlaska ™

*INSERT SARCASTIC SMILEY*

curt.45
May 15, 2009, 01:57 PM
..........


no comment after WA's post.


(meaning I have no idea what to say other than I wouldn't kill her)

Savage99
May 15, 2009, 02:02 PM
I am quite disapointed in the language of the title of this topic and of some of the inflamitory commets by others.

If this happened to me I would call the police right away.

markj
May 15, 2009, 02:07 PM
Kill her and feed her to the pigs, they will eat almost anything...

Last summer 2 gals got out of their car in my drive, it is 1/4 mile to the next house. They were dressed in low cut tops and very short skirts, said they wanted to talk to me about Jesus. :) dressed as they were I assumed they wanted to do something else..... they left when I asked them to. No need to shoot either of them....

Another, you need a good dog thread :)

apr1775
May 15, 2009, 02:09 PM
Oh great. I can just picture it now: some anti-gun person is reading this thread and telling their friends "those gun nuts are discussing shooting a girl who just wants to use the bathroom".

hogdogs
May 15, 2009, 02:11 PM
If I were single it would depend on what she looked like.........
I am married so it becomes a matter of is mrs.meanie... errrr I mean my beautiful bride, mrs.hogdogs home with the youngins' if not how long... Seriously though...
The gotta pee thing gets no where far in my house. My wife is finicky about junior's girlfriends using the guest bath so NO WAY! Out ya go dolly! On yer ear if no peacefully!
Brent

ZeSpectre
May 15, 2009, 02:12 PM
This girl busts in because she's gotta go to the bathroom, what do we do?

Answer...

Depends (http://www.shopinprivate.com/depuncasof12.html)

(pun completely intended)

Doing my best to help this worthless thread get closed down.

KingEdward
May 15, 2009, 02:15 PM
To David,

when do we find out what happened after she push the officer and tried to proceed?

OuTcAsT
May 15, 2009, 02:16 PM
On the up side, if you point a gun at her she may not need to come inside any longer...:D

Might need a new doormat though..:(

hogdogs
May 15, 2009, 02:18 PM
I grew up in a small town near the railroad and answering the door to people asking for handouts.
Different times!
One of the more romantic elements of American folklore has been the criss-crossing rail system of this country steel rails carrying Americans to new territories across desert and mountain, through wheat fields and over great rivers. Carl Sandburg has flavored the mighty steam engine in elegant prose and Arlo Guthrie has made the roundhouse a sturdy emblem of Americas commerce.

But, even the most colorful dreams have their dark sides.

For nearly two years, a killer literally followed wheatfield Americas railroad tracks to slay unsuspecting victims before disappearing back into the pre-lit dawn. His modus operandi was always the same he struck near the rail lines he illegally rode, then stowed away on the next freight train to come his way. Always ahead of the law.
From this link...
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/notorious/resendez/track_1.html
Brent

Erich
May 15, 2009, 02:26 PM
No one can get to my door without first getting past a 5' wall with a locked gate. Anyone inside that gate is viewable from two separate windows with a crossed field of view. I don't guess I would have opened the door, though I might have gone around behind from the back to learn why someone was inside the curtailage of my house.

That said, I can't imagine shooting a woman based on the scenario set forth. :rolleyes: The OP asked if the circumstances would change depending on the person's dress or gender - well, of course it would. And, without seeing the precise factual situation, I couldn't tell you what I'd do.

Capt Charlie
May 15, 2009, 02:38 PM
Geeze David! :rolleyes: Even though I'm sure the title of this was meant to attract attention, it's still disturbing.

Given the scenario as presented, that option shouldn't even be on the table, let alone in the title.

Add to this mess the inevitable collection of folks that advocate shooting someone for spitting on their sidewalk and this becomes a literary train wreck.

I'm closing this because even the title doesn't put us in a good light, let alone some of the responses.

If you want to discuss this scenario as presented, restart it, but let's leave the Final Option off the table, OK?